Trump Moves to Ban Foreign Telecom Gear, Targeting Huawei and Escalating Battle With China

jelly

Member
Oct 26, 2017
8,590
Why have the rest of the world been caught with their pants down regarding 5G or do they actually have alternatives that China is undermining on price or something?
 

Croix

Member
Oct 25, 2017
109
I dont understand people tbh. Lets say you are a normal American citizen doing your normal life. why are you afraid foreign countries like china spying on you? Even if they know everything about you whats the point? what are they going to do with it? I DO UNDERSTAND you dont want your own government to spy on you because they have the authority to makes problem for you but a foreign country like china cant do shit to you. Why are you bothered? makes no sense to me. Can someone please explain this?
There's nothing to really "understand". It's hatred fueled by an irrational fear of losing your power as an hegemonic country and a prevalent belief that Western civilization is superior to others. They don't even actually have any proof that Huawei is spying on them, it's all bullcrap lol. Read about the Yellow Peril if you are more interested.
 
Oct 30, 2017
4,079
I dont understand people tbh. Lets say you are a normal American citizen doing your normal life. why are you afraid foreign countries like china spying on you? Even if they know everything about you whats the point? what are they going to do with it? I DO UNDERSTAND you dont want your own government to spy on you because they have the authority to makes problem for you but a foreign country like china cant do shit to you. Why are you bothered? what kind of secret do you have? makes no sense to me. Can someone please explain this?
Why shouldn’t someone be bothered china is spying on you? It’s none of chinas fucking business. Just like it’s none of our own shitty governments business.
 

JoJo UK

The Fallen
Oct 28, 2017
427
I dont understand people tbh. Lets say you are a normal American citizen doing your normal life. why are you afraid foreign countries like china spying on you? Even if they know everything about you whats the point? what are they going to do with it? I DO UNDERSTAND you dont want your own government to spy on you because they have the authority to makes problem for you but a foreign country like china cant do shit to you. Why are you bothered? what kind of secret do you have? makes no sense to me. Can someone please explain this?
Cool. BCC me into all your emails, copy me into all your SMS/WhatsApp/Facebook conversations and conference me into all your calls please.

Hey everyone, it's OK. Huawei is willing to sign they will totally not do any spying. It's all good.
 

Mjolnir

Alt account
Banned
May 2, 2019
95
Everyone really need to read this to understand what's going on: https://economicsofimperialism.blogspot.com/2019/04/racism-imperial-anxiety-us-vs-huawei.html

This brings me to the issue that really concerns the US business elite: China’s rise in the sphere of technology. China is not overtaking the US in every field, or even in many. But the areas in which it has made gains are striking, and they undermine the view that China’s capabilities are limited to doing bad copies of western technology that it has stolen. Just consider the case of Huawei Technologies, headquartered in Shenzen, China.

Huawei is now the world’s second or third largest supplier of smartphones, behind Korea’s Samsung, but in close competition with Apple. Other Chinese companies, Xiaomi, ZTE and Oppo, are also major suppliers, although, like Huawei, a large chunk of their market is in China itself. But note that Chinese-sourced smartphones are also dependent upon foreign technology, especially from the US, such as Google’s Android software and Qualcomm’s modems and chipsets, so one should not exaggerate China’s prominence in this area.

For example, one study noted that Huawei paid western companies $222m in licensing fees for technology in 2010 alone, with $175m of that paid to American firms.[5] Qualcomm was a recipient of some $600m in intellectual property fees from Huawei over a number of years, helped by its charges of around 2.5% of the smartphone’s retail price!

In recent years Huawei has made a big effort to produce its own components or at least to avoid those supplied by US companies. This is a very sensible move, and Huawei now produces its own chipsets. Nevertheless, it remains vulnerable, as does China more generally, to the US government using technology as a factor in its political and economic influence in markets. Huawei is currently under fire from the US for allegedly breaking its sanctions on Iran, by using US banks to transact with an Iranian company and by selling Iran telecom equipment that included US components.

The US legal case against Huawei has so far meant the house arrest of the company’s Chief Financial Officer in Canada, and is still being played out. Nevertheless, in the meantime the US has stepped up its actions against Huawei on a different front, one that from a technology perspective is more critical. This is in the supply of the latest generation 5G mobile network equipment.
That China outcompetes with its own technology is a little difficult for the US government to stomach, so it turns to a tried and trusted ploy of citing ‘security’ concerns about Huawei. The company is meant to be indistinguishable from the Chinese (communist?) government, and using its 5G technology will doubtless enable Beijing to turn off your fridge, cancel your order for beer and burgers and cackle like Fu Manchu as it listens to your cries of despair.
One of the main political weapons the US has in this respect is the ‘Five Eyes’ alliance. This is led by the US, but includes the other stalwarts of the Anglo-American political-economic system – the UK, Canada, Australia and New Zealand – who cooperate with each other in signals intelligence, otherwise known as spying. Set up at the start of the Cold War, the original focus was on the Soviet Union. But it soon expanded much further into official and private communications worldwide, as detailed by Edward Snowden, a former CIA employee, in 2013.

The US has demanded that its Five Eyes partners bar Huawei from participating in 5G networks in their countries, due to security concerns. This follows from earlier moves by the US to more or less exclude Huawei from the US market in the supply of other technology, or in an ability to buy US companies. It has had some success. Back in 2012, Australia had already banned Huawei from supplying equipment for its national broadband network and it will continue with a 5G ban. New Zealand has stopped Huawei from supplying equipment to a local telecom company, and Canada may also do the same for its 5G network.
The UK is in a more mixed position. BT has banned Huawei’s equipment from the core parts of its 5G network, but other industry reports have suggested that security concerns can be sorted out, with its equipment being used only in ‘benign’ parts of the network that cannot be remotely accessed or which could not lead to the whole system being taken down.

There are a number of problems for each of the Five Eyes in going through with all this. Huawei is the cheapest supplier, and is already entrenched in many 4G networks, so uprooting its equipment is going to be very costly. Furthermore, they will all risk retaliation from China in trade matters, something that may weigh upon the Brexit-burdened UK more than the others. Finally, they have a problem when there has been no evidence provided that there is any real security risk – or at least none that is not already being addressed by the company – and that this is anything more than a US-driven political ploy against an embarrassingly successful Chinese company. This is why Germany and Japan do not seem to be following the US ‘lead’ here.

It is true that Huawei’s founder, Ren Zhengfei, was formerly a military technologist in China’s People’s Liberation Army and that Huawei has received indirect support from the Chinese state. But he left the PLA in 1982, five years before setting up Huawei. In any case, if corporate-military-state links are such a problem, then why not look at those between the US government, the military and security services and companies such as Microsoft, Google, Amazon and others, both in terms of lucrative contracts and intelligence sharing?

Or why not risk drowning in a well of hypocrisy and note two other issues? First, a report by the New York Times detailed how the US National Security Agency (NSA) hacked into Huawei’s systems from 2007:

“One of the goals of the operation, code-named ‘Shotgiant’, was to find any links between Huawei and the People’s Liberation Army, one 2010 document made clear. But the plans went further: to exploit Huawei’s technology so that when the company sold equipment to other countries – including both allies and nations that avoid buying American products – the NSA could roam through their computer and telephone networks to conduct surveillance and, if ordered by the president, offensive cyberoperations.” (22 March 2014)
Second, as reported by Der Spiegel, the NSA has made its own ‘backdoors’ in many makes of computer and telecom software and hardware: “A document viewed by SPIEGEL resembling a product catalog reveals that an NSA division called ANT has burrowed its way into nearly all the security architecture made by the major players in the industry – including American global market leader Cisco and its Chinese competitor Huawei, but also producers of mass-market goods, such as US computer-maker Dell” (29 December 2013).

With all communications technology, there is a potential problem of access or interference by outsiders, whether they be state spies or private players. But in the case of Huawei, the US has not given any evidence that the company has given special access for the Chinese state to its technology and, of course, it ignores its own infiltration into communication systems used worldwide.
China presents the most significant challenge to America’s domination of the world economy. A very big, very poor country that was making cheap goods for the US domestic market was fine for the American ruling class for a while. Now China presents a more formidable problem of making gains in the field of technology, one that has been an important area monopolised by American businesses. This is shown by how the top four companies in the world by stock market capitalisation are US tech giants: Apple, Microsoft, Amazon and Google. The only non-US companies in the world top 10 are Chinese: Alibaba and Tencent Holdings. Huawei does not figure on that particular list, but is nevertheless making dramatic gains in its chosen fields. Other big Chinese tech companies include Baidu, ZTE, Xiaomi and Oppo.

The US is big on widely used software, Internet search, social media, e-commerce and cloud computing (Microsoft, Google, Facebook, Amazon) and on selected areas of critical tech products (Intel chips, Qualcomm modems, etc). But it is relatively weak in others – especially network infrastructure, as reflected in the poor Wi-Fi coverage in much of the US. It has also earned a lot of revenue from licensing its intellectual property to foreign companies: in 2017, US net revenues on this item amounted to a not insignificant $77bn, although that was down from $89bn four years earlier.[7] Prospects for the US do not look good here, given not only the rise of China, but also the growing prominence of companies like Samsung of Korea and SoftBank of Japan who are joining the innovation-via-takeover race that has up to now been dominated by the US tech giants. These trends will only add to America’s anti-China protectionism.

Europe’s response to China has been a little different, as noted earlier in the mixed reaction to the US call to ban Huawei from 5G installations. It was not only an ability to see through US hypocrisy, helped by the knowledge that the NSA had tapped German Chancellor Merkel’s phone for years. More fundamentally, there is an ambivalent stance, both because Europe is way behind in the Big Tech stakes and does not want to depend only upon US companies, and because China is a major trading partner for the EU – the third biggest market for EU exports, after the US and Switzerland, and the biggest source of imports.

But perhaps one guide to Europe’s response to the tech challenge from China is seen in what the EU Trade Commission did in 2012-13. It launched an anti-dumping investigation into Huawei and ZTE, alleging that the Chinese companies were being subsidised by the government, which enabled them to undercut European tech company prices. It demanded that Huawei and ZTE had to increase their products’ prices by 29% and urged the Chinese government to guarantee a 30% market share for European companies in the Chinese market. In the end, this failed to get enough support, even from other European governments, and the anti-dumping action was later dropped.

There is much more to come in the US-China story, and in the role of China in the world economy. President Trump will no doubt declare victory in any trade negotiations, but America will remain anxious about a growing threat to its rule.
The article is much longer and goes into depth about the economics of this conflict and why the US as a global economic superpower has interests in trying to control Huawei and by extension, China. It would serve us well to be much more critical of what we read in the newspapers, their sources, and how the economic, imperialist interests of the US contextualize the way we approach the case of Huawei.
 
Dec 5, 2018
794

Carn

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,102
The Netherlands
Good thing other hardware made by companies like Cisco is totally transparant. I'm all for being cautious but I see little good coming from this.
 

Ingueferroque

The Fallen
Oct 28, 2017
9,030
I dont understand people tbh. Lets say you are a normal American citizen doing your normal life. why are you afraid foreign countries like china spying on you? Even if they know everything about you whats the point? what are they going to do with it? I DO UNDERSTAND you dont want your own government to spy on you because they have the authority to makes problem for you but a foreign country like china cant do shit to you. Why are you bothered? what kind of secret do you have? makes no sense to me. Can someone please explain this?
So you're cool with your identity being stolen?
 

Zexion

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
916
I dont understand people tbh. Lets say you are a normal American citizen doing your normal life. why are you afraid foreign countries like china spying on you? Even if they know everything about you whats the point? what are they going to do with it? I DO UNDERSTAND you dont want your own government to spy on you because they have the authority to makes problem for you but a foreign country like china cant do shit to you. Why are you bothered? what kind of secret do you have? makes no sense to me. Can someone please explain this?
So because I don't have any big secrets to maintain I should allow a foreign government power to steal my data and use it in whatever nefarious bullshit they want? Just because my home nation does it (which I still disagree with) doesn't mean that I'm ok with the Chinese government exerting their power over companies to do this to me.

China is a messed up country and it's about time that all nations quit their reliance over them.
 

Kernel

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,087
China already conducts hacking and industrial espionage operations.

You don't need ant evidence of Huawei spying or backdoors, there's no reason to trust them.

If the CCP ordered them to spy they'd have zero choice in complying or not.
 

Ramala

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,020
You don’t think this has anything to do with the fact that if China were to try to influence the next election, or hack someone and release their dirty laundry, it might be to hurt or humiliate Trump? Maybe just a little bit?

I mean it’s a good thing and all don’t get me wrong.
 

Avitus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,380
Infrastructure shouldn't be owned or built by opposing nations. Pretty straightforward IMO.
 

Mjolnir

Alt account
Banned
May 2, 2019
95
t

Here comes the Chinese government defense force right on schedule.
Not a fan of the trade war but Huawei can fuck right off in Norway our security services are warning against Huawei given that they are basicly so closely tied to the chinese government and no it's not even comparable to any other company either in Europe or the US.

https://www.newsinenglish.no/2019/02/04/norways-pst-warns-against-huawei/
Yes.

National security is a thing.
Yes? Even if we were to agree that it's bad when "we" do it, it's still fundamentally worse when China does.

I'm just going to repeat Tony Norfield's analysis from above - I strongly encourage you all to read it to properly understand what's going on with Huawei and the US response to the company.


China presents the most significant challenge to America’s domination of the world economy. A very big, very poor country that was making cheap goods for the US domestic market was fine for the American ruling class for a while. Now China presents a more formidable problem of making gains in the field of technology, one that has been an important area monopolised by American businesses. This is shown by how the top four companies in the world by stock market capitalisation are US tech giants: Apple, Microsoft, Amazon and Google. The only non-US companies in the world top 10 are Chinese: Alibaba and Tencent Holdings. Huawei does not figure on that particular list, but is nevertheless making dramatic gains in its chosen fields. Other big Chinese tech companies include Baidu, ZTE, Xiaomi and Oppo.

The US is big on widely used software, Internet search, social media, e-commerce and cloud computing (Microsoft, Google, Facebook, Amazon) and on selected areas of critical tech products (Intel chips, Qualcomm modems, etc). But it is relatively weak in others – especially network infrastructure, as reflected in the poor Wi-Fi coverage in much of the US. It has also earned a lot of revenue from licensing its intellectual property to foreign companies: in 2017, US net revenues on this item amounted to a not insignificant $77bn, although that was down from $89bn four years earlier.[7] Prospects for the US do not look good here, given not only the rise of China, but also the growing prominence of companies like Samsung of Korea and SoftBank of Japan who are joining the innovation-via-takeover race that has up to now been dominated by the US tech giants. These trends will only add to America’s anti-China protectionism.

Europe’s response to China has been a little different, as noted earlier in the mixed reaction to the US call to ban Huawei from 5G installations. It was not only an ability to see through US hypocrisy, helped by the knowledge that the NSA had tapped German Chancellor Merkel’s phone for years. More fundamentally, there is an ambivalent stance, both because Europe is way behind in the Big Tech stakes and does not want to depend only upon US companies, and because China is a major trading partner for the EU – the third biggest market for EU exports, after the US and Switzerland, and the biggest source of imports.

But perhaps one guide to Europe’s response to the tech challenge from China is seen in what the EU Trade Commission did in 2012-13. It launched an anti-dumping investigation into Huawei and ZTE, alleging that the Chinese companies were being subsidised by the government, which enabled them to undercut European tech company prices. It demanded that Huawei and ZTE had to increase their products’ prices by 29% and urged the Chinese government to guarantee a 30% market share for European companies in the Chinese market. In the end, this failed to get enough support, even from other European governments, and the anti-dumping action was later dropped.

There is much more to come in the US-China story, and in the role of China in the world economy. President Trump will no doubt declare victory in any trade negotiations, but America will remain anxious about a growing threat to its rule.
 
Nov 30, 2017
1,817
I don’t support slave labor so I focus on buying things homemade as much as possible. Unfortunately so many things are made in China it’s pretty hard To find things that aren’t somehow someway made there or other doave labor countries.

So I support countries banning products made in these countries. The spying thing I really don’t care about because everything everywhere spies on you already.
 

Mjolnir

Alt account
Banned
May 2, 2019
95
edit: we linking to blog posts now?
Tony Norfield is the author of The City: London & the Global Power of Finance for Verso Books and has appeared in Financial Times, Vice, and Monthly Review. Regardless, his analysis is sound and something that people need to engage with if we are to understand the context in which this is happening. Especially when it's Trump and his fascist cohorts who are orchestrating this trade war.

In every way that the United States is yes, problematic, China is objectively worse in every category available.
Also, since you want to do the whole Imperialism Olympics with regard to the US and China, only one country has continuously invaded several countries and murdered millions of people the last 80 years, and is also largest emitter of GHG per capita, and also has the largest prison population *total*, and is also the one with 800 military bases across the globe, and is also drone-striking non-Americans, and is also equipping its police force with military hardware and is also founded on the genocide of native americans and the enslavment and murder of Africans. And that same country has for over a decade spied on *all* users who've used the (Western) Internet without anyone facing any form of repercussion or curtailing the mass invasion of privacy that the US government and its companies are doing.
 

TheDoctor

Member
Oct 27, 2017
335
Why have the rest of the world been caught with their pants down regarding 5G or do they actually have alternatives that China is undermining on price or something?
Nokia, Ericsson, Samsung, (and ZTE) are alternative options.

Huawei is leading because its equipment is considered the most advanced and they're able to deploy it in a rapid and cost-effective manner.
 

Croix

Member
Oct 25, 2017
109
Tony Norfield is the author of The City: London & the Global Power of Finance for Verso Books and has appeared in Financial Times, Vice, and Monthly Review. Regardless, his analysis is sound and something that people need to engage with if we are to understand the context in which this is happening. Especially when it's Trump and his fascist cohorts who are orchestrating this trade war.
To be fair, this isn't necessarily a Trump thing aside from the trade war. One of the reasons the US was OK with China's economic development was because they thought that a liberalisation of its economy would inevitably lead to a political liberalisation. It didn't work out like they thought, and now the CCP rule is pretty stable and it's very very unlikely that there's going to be a change of regime or a democratization movement in the short to middle term, so the US is now mad at them because they think they are being "unfair" about its economic deal. Then throw in the US trade imbalance and other things to mix to the current situation. This is going to last for a long while, even with Trump out of the office. Edit: talking about the US antagonising China.
 
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Ryder9

Member
May 26, 2018
510
Huawei is awful because they're notorious for stealing IP and bankrupting local tech companies

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/former-nortel-exec-warns-against-working-with-huawei-1.1137006

https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/nortel-collapse-linked-to-chinese-hackers-1.1260591

https://business.financialpost.com/technology/nortel-hacked-to-pieces

Why are the low information morons in this thread blindly defending huawei?

Even more moronic thinking US is as bad as China; you need to read up on the social credit system
 

simplayer

Member
Oct 27, 2017
74
Nokia, Ericsson, Samsung, (and ZTE) are alternative options.

Huawei is leading because its equipment is considered the most advanced and they're able to deploy it in a rapid and cost-effective manner.
I don't know how much more advanced they are, Ericsson is right up there in 5G development, but they're certainly cheaper.
 

leburn98

Member
Nov 1, 2017
467
The thing about all this is if are to believe that China is using a company like Huawei to spy on us, what's to stop them from doing the same on our Chinese-made American products such as Apple? Fact is, practically every piece of technology we use today is made in a Chinese factory. If they want to provide a backdoor in our devices to spy on us, they will.
 

Ryder9

Member
May 26, 2018
510
The thing about all this is if are to believe that China is using a company like Huawei to spy on us, what's to stop them from doing the same on our Chinese-made American products such as Apple? Fact is, practically every piece of technology we use today is made in a Chinese factory. If they want to provide a backdoor in our devices to spy on us, they will.
strict QA, a company like apple will inspect end product thoroughly because they have the resources & inclination; but smaller companies are definitely at risk
 

smurfx

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,133
Yes.

National security is a thing.
the real reason to be against huawei/china backdoors is possible corporate espionage. is china gonna spy on the average american? hell no. will they spy and steal information from companies that compete against chinese companies? yes.
 

iRAWRasaurus

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,721
Frankly I have never seen a Huawei phone around or even in a phone store.

And yeah I know a lot of people used them.
 

Mjolnir

Alt account
Banned
May 2, 2019
95
To be fair, this isn't necessarily a Trump thing aside from the trade war. One of the reasons the US was OK with China's economic development was because they thought that a liberalisation of its economy would inevitably lead to a political liberalisation. It didn't work out like they thought, and now the CCP rule is pretty stable and it's very very unlikely that there's going to be a change of regime or a democratization movement in the short to middle term, so the US is now mad at them because they think they are being "unfair" about its economic deal. Then throw in the US trade imbalance and other things to mix to the current situation. This is going to last for a long while, even with Trump out of the office. Edit: talking about the US antagonising China.
Yes, I agree with you but this does not negate the analysis that political economists are putting out there. The US is a (failing) economic superpower and it's trying to bully another rising economic power and trying to control them. People are being way too trustworthy and naive about what the US government officials are telling them. I thought people were all about #theresistance since 2016? Anyway, Norfield's analysis is spot on and lays out the tensions between the two economic powers (and how the EU and the UK find themselves in between the two).

*a sidenote on your incorrect history: The US was okay with the liberalisation of the Chinese economy because it meant more potential export and because the US loves capitalism. It has little to do with "political liberalisation" and more to do with managing crises of over-accumulation inherent to the economic system.
 

LittleBee

Member
Mar 15, 2019
119
What does this mean? If I buy a Huawei phone, I won't be able to have a cellular connection in the US?
 

WarMacheen

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
735
After being in several classified briefings regarding the issue. I support the ban.

I also hate trump more than I thought capable of hating anyone, but this isn't a trump issue. I believe any other president would try and do the same as it's not just economics, but national security that's involved. Running a communications network and all the information involved with that, on equipment built, maintained, and controlled by a Chinese company that has the backing of the Chinese government isn't something we should be considering.
 
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disparate

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,213
Huawei is awful because they're notorious for stealing IP and bankrupting local tech companies

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/former-nortel-exec-warns-against-working-with-huawei-1.1137006

https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/nortel-collapse-linked-to-chinese-hackers-1.1260591

https://business.financialpost.com/technology/nortel-hacked-to-pieces

Why are the low information morons in this thread blindly defending huawei?

Even more moronic thinking US is as bad as China; you need to read up on the social credit system
And this doesn't even get into China creating debtor nations through its Belt & Road initiative.
 

Croix

Member
Oct 25, 2017
109
Yes, I agree with you but this does not negate the analysis that political economists are putting out there. The US is a (failing) economic superpower and it's trying to bully another rising economic power and trying to control them. People are being way too trustworthy and naive about what the US government officials are telling them. I thought people were all about #theresistance since 2016? Anyway, Norfield's analysis is spot on and lays out the tensions between the two economic powers (and how the EU and the UK find themselves in between the two).

*a sidenote on your incorrect history: The US was okay with the liberalisation of the Chinese economy because it meant more potential export and because the US loves capitalism. It has little to do with "political liberalisation" and more to do with managing crises of over-accumulation inherent to the economic system.
It's kind of both really. I didn't mean to negate Norfield's analysis, sorry, I just wanted to present another side of the coin. Ultimately, what the US wants is a government that they can try to influence in their favour. No one lets their "enemy" grow economically until becoming a potential threat to their hegemony unless they think they can try to push for political liberalisation with it.
 

SRG01

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,085
Yes, I agree with you but this does not negate the analysis that political economists are putting out there. The US is a (failing) economic superpower and it's trying to bully another rising economic power and trying to control them. People are being way too trustworthy and naive about what the US government officials are telling them. I thought people were all about #theresistance since 2016? Anyway, Norfield's analysis is spot on and lays out the tensions between the two economic powers (and how the EU and the UK find themselves in between the two).

*a sidenote on your incorrect history: The US was okay with the liberalisation of the Chinese economy because it meant more potential export and because the US loves capitalism. It has little to do with "political liberalisation" and more to do with managing crises of over-accumulation inherent to the economic system.
It's kind of both really. I didn't mean to negate Norfield's analysis, sorry, I just wanted to present another side of the coin. Ultimately, what the US wants is a government that they can try to influence in their favour. No one lets their "enemy" grow economically until becoming a potential threat to their hegemony unless they think they can try to push for political liberalisation with it.
I truly think that we're in a pretty unique era of history right now, since this mirrors the "Great Game" in the previous century -- but instead of colonies, it's economies and globalism. Both the US and China are jockeying for worldwide economic domination, but the irony is that the US and Chinese economies are interdependent.
 

dhlt25

Member
Oct 27, 2017
288
I'm conflicted on this issue. I understand the national security concerns but up to this point the evidence provided by the US government is flimsy at best.