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Trump Moves to Ban Foreign Telecom Gear, Targeting Huawei and Escalating Battle With China

Dec 20, 2017
943
Ohio
Get outta here with that crap.. Don't bring race here in your argument, trust me you will lose.
Race? I'm just countering what you said:

as bad as these are.. there literally a 1 million ethnic population in open prison going through re-education (basically torture) RIGHT NOW IN CHINA... stop with this false-equivalency crap. Just because both are bad, doesn't mean they are bad to the same extent. Had China been as powerful or as big as USA, we would've seen much much worse than cages, war and famine supporting in Yemen


How about all the Wars in the middle east? Whats worst than death?
 
Oct 27, 2017
4,397
Australia is notoriously weak to US pressure and that pressure existed in 2018.
Australia banned Huawei from its government funded national broadband network build out back in 2012 as well so I have my doubts about the recent ban being due to them caving to US pressure (if any).

But to get back to a previous question, how is this an indication of US being salty in being unable to build a 5G network?
 
Oct 25, 2017
915
I don't think Norway ever stopped using Huawei equipment, or maybe I'm wrong?
To be honest, this is getting into details I don't know much about. Maybe the focus was more keeping Norwegian businesses out of China... Norwegian fish was effectively banned, getting stuck in "customs inspections" until it spoiled for example.

But in any case, the message was clear - stay in line or we hurt you economically. And again, as I understand it, 5G equipment is intimately tied to the vendor in a way that the previous generations weren't. It gives them a hold over a country's critical infrastructure that 4G/LTE did not provide.
 
Oct 25, 2017
587
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Oct 27, 2017
719
Huawei should absolutely be banned. I would also like to stop seeing Meng Wanzhou and her house of bodyguards every time I go to get groceries.
 
Nov 9, 2017
1,358
Also, since you want to do the whole Imperialism Olympics with regard to the US and China, only one country has continuously invaded several countries and murdered millions of people the last 80 years, and is also largest emitter of GHG per capita, and also has the largest prison population *total*, and is also the one with 800 military bases across the globe, and is also drone-striking non-Americans, and is also equipping its police force with military hardware and is also founded on the genocide of native americans and the enslavment and murder of Africans. And that same country has for over a decade spied on *all* users who've used the (Western) Internet without anyone facing any form of repercussion or curtailing the mass invasion of privacy that the US government and its companies are doing.

Sorry if off topic, but modern Europe would win that Olympics. EU countries are responsible for genociding over 17 million people including Jews, Slavs, Roma, the disabled, and LGBT individuals. This is all about 80-90 years ago. Don't forget these imperialists also tried to colonize the entire world and are responsible for the rape/pillage/extinction of existing cultures of North and South America, Southeast Asia, Australia, and Africa. Poor Aztecs, Mayans, Africans, Aboriginals ...etc :(

For all of the colonization that Western Europe did, they are not very diverse. Mostly a bunch of white folk who suppress the minority populations. How many non-white politicians, leaders, people of power are there in the EU? How could these countries that colonized (raped) Africa for so long (see Zimbabwe) and are in such close proximity not really have any meaningful populations of minorities from Africa or anywhere else really? Suppression much?
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,431
Less options for consumers are good because?
I don't get this head in the sand position on Era regarding Huawei - this subject is not about consumer choice, this is about security. Most Western democracies have expressed variable levels of concern about Huawei, and basically none have said "they're completely fine." What is not agreed is whether actions like this are the right way to go. But please, let's stop with pretending this is purely about US protectionism and/or anti-consumerism - Samsung is a Korean company and one of (if not the) top name in the game right now and none of these concerns are being raised about them. Meanwhile, Apple has an anti-trust investigation pending against them.

Jesus... you have inadvertently made me defend Trump and I will never forgive you for this.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,115
I dont understand people tbh. Lets say you are a normal American citizen doing your normal life. why are you afraid foreign countries like china spying on you? Even if they know everything about you whats the point? what are they going to do with it? I DO UNDERSTAND you dont want your own government to spy on you because they have the authority to makes problem for you but a foreign country like china cant do shit to you. Why are you bothered? what kind of secret do you have? makes no sense to me. Can someone please explain this?
Let's say I talk shit about the someone in power in a foreign country and compare him to Winnie the Pooh and let's say that country is spying on me and decides that they don't like what I've been saying. Now suddenly when I decide to visit that country they detain me on entry, or worse they use people placed in my own home country to exert negative influences on my job/life/family. And that's over petty shit like comparing someone to a cartoon character. I don't even live in the states but I can call Trump a dumbass racist and compare him to a cartoon character on the internet or IRL without having to worry about being detained by the government when I go on trips to the states.
 
Oct 26, 2017
128
It's kinda amazing to see how effective propaganda becomes once you got a good-enough villain you can claim moral superiority over, even if it's in an unrelated field.
 

CHC

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,083
Their laptops will still come in normally though right? I’m planning on getting a Matebook X Pro in August for med school because it’s such a great damn laptop.
 
Oct 29, 2017
1,024
Australia banned Huawei from its government funded national broadband network build out back in 2012 as well so I have my doubts about the recent ban being due to them caving to US pressure (if any).

But to get back to a previous question, how is this an indication of US being salty in being unable to build a 5G network?
The bribery argument posted by someone earlier is the best actually, so that's likely the root cause for Australia.

American refusal to share evidence is the best evidence that they don't actually have anything. Calling them salty because of 5G is just poking at the American ego, it's not like any of us could have evidence on motivations that deep. But trying to sabotage a rival's business when yours is falling behind is an age old strategy.
 
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Oct 27, 2017
71
The bribery argument posted by someone earlier is the best actually, so that's likely the root cause for Australia.

American refusal to share evidence is the best evidence that they don't actually have anything. Calling them salty because of 5G is just poking at the American ego, it's not like any of us could have evidence on motivations that deep. But trying to sabotage a rival's business when yours is falling behind is an age old strategy.
There's no American company that produces 5G network infrastructure. The network infrastructure vendors are all European, Korean, or Chinese.
 

Mjolnir

Alt account
Banned
May 2, 2019
95
Sorry if off topic, but modern Europe would win that Olympics. EU countries are responsible for genociding over 17 million people including Jews, Slavs, Roma, the disabled, and LGBT individuals. This is all about 80-90 years ago. Don't forget these imperialists also tried to colonize the entire world and are responsible for the rape/pillage/extinction of existing cultures of North and South America, Southeast Asia, Australia, and Africa. Poor Aztecs, Mayans, Africans, Aboriginals ...etc :(

For all of the colonization that Western Europe did, they are not very diverse. Mostly a bunch of white folk who suppress the minority populations. How many non-white politicians, leaders, people of power are there in the EU? How could these countries that colonized (raped) Africa for so long (see Zimbabwe) and are in such close proximity not really have any meaningful populations of minorities from Africa or anywhere else really? Suppression much?
I agree with you.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,898
Yeah, all this spying talk is buring the lead here. 5G equipment is very complex and proprietary, and far more reliant on regular software updates and service from the vendor than previous generations. You're not buying 5G infrastructure, you're renting it. And China is simply not a reliable partner. It's a cynical, easily offended authoritarian regime that has made it perfectly clear that they will use any power you give them over you to try to force you in line.

Norway for example, spent nearly a decade on China's shit list after Liu Xiaobo was awarded the Nobel Peace Price in 2010 for non-violent struggle for human rights, with Chinese businesses being effectively banned from doing business there. One wonder how that would have worked out for them if they were beholden to Huawei.
Yeah, you said it better than me.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,728
I don't think a shred of evidence has been given by the US government regarding Huawei's spying. Which leads me to believe that, spying or not, this is all motivated by Americans being salty because they don't know how to build 5G networks.
In general you don't want to openly provide information such as this because it would give insight into what techniques are used to look for such backdoors in which case Huawei could better implement backdoors such that they wouldn't be caught in such a manner, or in the case that this information is provided by external sources then it may compromise said sources. However, I think its important to note that it's not just the US that's distrustful of Huawei. Australia started limiting Huawei due to security concerns long before the US started targeting them. Netherlands intelligence agency, AIVD, also said they have evidence of backdoors. And most recently, Vietnam, who most certainly doesn't just bow to US whims, also banned Huawei over these concerns.
 
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Jan 27, 2019
147
Richmond
I have no love for Trump whatsoever, but this is the one thing I agree with him on. China is a threat to world stability and as long as their companies are beholden to their perversely undemocratic police-state government they can't be trusted with anything that could potentially be a national security issue. It really is a shame the KMT lost the war.
 
Mar 28, 2018
209
The arguments in here are so confusing to me.
"China is using Huawei to spy on us."
"There's no evidence that's actually happening, and a bunch of the people who've been accusing them of it have been proven lying"
"Yeah, but China still abuses human rights, and they do it worse than the US so we shouldn't buy from any Chinese companies ever because maybe they're spying for them."
"Ok... wait, what?"
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,898
The arguments in here are so confusing to me.
"China is using Huawei to spy on us."
"There's no evidence that's actually happening, and a bunch of the people who've been accusing them of it have been proven lying"
"Yeah, but China still abuses human rights, and they do it worse than the US so we shouldn't buy from any Chinese companies ever because maybe they're spying for them."
"Ok... wait, what?"
Strawmen are fun to make
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,482
I have no love for Trump whatsoever, but this is the one thing I agree with him on. China is a threat to world stability and as long as their companies are beholden to their perversely undemocratic police-state government they can't be trusted with anything that could potentially be a national security issue. It really is a shame the KMT lost the war.
Honestly, I don't see the US much better these days. We're a legit threat to the world with our trigger happy military, lack of regulation in important areas, and our complete disregard for climate challenges. The US is pretty much a champion for bullies and tyrants now.
 
Jan 27, 2019
147
Richmond
Honestly, I don't see the US much better these days. We're a legit threat to the world with our trigger happy military, lack of regulation in important areas, and our complete disregard for climate challenges. The US is pretty much a champion for bullies and tyrants now.
Oh don't get me wrong, the US is plenty evil in its own right, but in the present day the US doesn't round up minorities into concentration camps or oppress its own citizenry. If you had to live under an evil empire which evil empire would you rather live under? It's a pick your poison type of question. Both China and the US are bad actors, but allowing China to become more powerful won't suddenly make the US a good one - it just makes it more likely that other countries will become like China. But more to the point, regardless of how you feel about the awful things the US does it doesn't change the fact that there it is exceedingly dangerous to let entities beholden to the Chinese state be in control of telecommunication infrastructure in not only the US, but any country.

So Huawei is banned but Samsung, One Plus, etc are okay? Seems odd.
Samsung in a Korean company. If One Plus is involved in telecommunication infrastructure they should be banned.