Trump says he ‘Opened up Europe’ for farmers. Europeans disagree.

Oct 26, 2017
1,608
The british public will swallow whatever the tories give them. See no deal Brexit that is most likely at this point without much outcry.

The british goverment is literally stockpiling food and medicine and there's no public outcry.
You've got a funny definition of no outcry.

The country of origin has to be listed, and as soon as a modicum of negative press gets associated with meat products from the USA no one is going to buy it.
 

Bitch Pudding

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,236
To be fair, being able to buy chlorine chicken will be the very least of the UK citizens‘s long list of problems even if by some miracle they’ll manage a soft Brexit.
 

Xando

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,497
You've got a funny definition of no outcry.
A goverment actively considering (and atleast some ministers favoring) a option that would force unbelievable economic harm on it citizens, cause medicine and food shortages to the degree that the military has to deliver resources across the country being able to do what the current goverment does without being brought down is what i call no outcry.

Maybe you have a different definition and are totally fine to lose your job and stand in line to get food?


The country of origin has to be listed, and as soon as a modicum of negative press gets associated with meat products from the USA no one is going to buy it.
The country of origin has to be listed due to EU regulations. Something the UK goverment could change in a heartbeat starting in april.
 

Kukulcan

Banned
Nov 2, 2017
2,046
Germany
It shouldn‘t be so hard to understand that most countries (especially the highly subsidizing EU) have no demand for most agricultural products, especially not dairy products and that these are and will for the forseeable future will be protected by tarriffs. Get over it, Trump!
 
Oct 26, 2017
1,608
A goverment actively considering (and atleast some ministers favoring) a option that would force unbelievable economic harm on it citizens, cause medicine and food shortages to the degree that the military has to deliver resources across the country being able to do what the current goverment does without being brought down is what i call no outcry.

Maybe you have a different definition and are totally fine to lose your job and stand in line to get food?



The country of origin has to be listed due to EU regulations. Something the UK goverment could change in a heartbeat starting in april.
A) I'm self-employed and get nothing from the government, no benefits, no legally mandated holiday, sick pay, and no pension. The Brexit lot have already jeopardised my entire future by eliminating free movement.

B) The things you're taking about have already gained traction. I don't follow it all that much and I'm aware of it. Also, eliminating country of origin wouldn't last, it's something that people have gotten used to no matter their political allegiance.

You might not think the latter thing to be true but an impact on their quality of life is the surest path for even the knuckle draggers to kick up a fuss. Thinking is too much for them, they have to see and feel it before they do a damn thing.
 

hobblygobbly

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,126
Baden-Württemberg
GMOs are literally the most tested foods we have ever, ever eaten. Almost nothing we eat exists in nature. Almost nothing.

People worldwide eat foods that were created by bathing seeds and sprouts in radiation and chemicals, with thousands of random mutations, and they are sold as organic and have insane amounts of untested mutations compared to GMOs.

We literally created a poison potato through 'natural breeding' aka artificial selection. It had to be pulled from the market.

Go home with that argument.
The U.S didn't want the EU to test their exports with GMOs under the market's own regulations for testing GMOs, it just wanted to enter the single market based on U.S tests alone, and the U.S food regulations are very loose in comparison to the EU.

If you want to enter the market, you have to follow its regulations. the EU wants to test food coming in, the U.S didn't want the EU to do that.

As someone from a country within the EU, I don't trust U.S regulations because of how loose and non-existent they are in many industries, I trust our own for both health and sane economic protection considering how U.S wants to evade fair regulations of the market that everyone has to abide by...
 
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Berry Phazon

Member
Oct 27, 2017
667
European Union
Make one convincing argument that GMOs are bad compared to diploids, chemical mutagenic strains, nuclear mutagenic strains, artificial selection, clones, etc.

I'll be waiting.

Spoiler: You can't do it.
- You can patent GMOs and many crops are neutered so that the farmer is completely dependent from the GMO designer
- GMOs that are designed to be immune against pesticides lead to excess pesticide use with hazards towards insects and humans.

These are two giant problems that are connected to GMOs. Both could be addressed by regulation, sure. But right right now in the US and South America, there are problems.

I will agree with you that there is little reason why GMO food per se is unhealthy for human consumption as shown by the fact that nothing except water and minerals that humans eat today even existed 10000 years ago.
 

Beer Monkey

Member
Oct 30, 2017
3,326
- You can patent GMOs and many crops are neutered so that the farmer is completely dependent from the GMO designer
Seed patents predate GMOs by half a century plus. Invalid argument. Applies to other forms of breeding. Also your "neutered" argument is a total lie, plain and simple.
- GMOs that are designed to be immune against pesticides lead to excess pesticide use with hazards towards insects and humans.
1) BASF has patented pesticide resistant seeds that are created by mutagenesis. Your argument is invalid.
2) GMOs reduce pesticide use and the GMOs that are created to be pesticide resistant are resistant against pesticides that are less toxic to humans than traditional pesticides. Your argument is invalid.

I'm still waiting for you to address my challenge. You have failed.

Try again? I am going to bed but I'll be back tomorrow.

 
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kageroo

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,805
I honestly don't think Europeans at large would buy (US)American beef.

They have to declare origin, right?

Only way I could see this working is not tell the consumers lol.

Sadly soy will be probably used for cheap products that don't declare the origin of its ingredients.

Either way fuck this.
 

Joni

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,022
We will never accept US food standards and the US will never want to follow the EU standards. We are self sufficient anyway so we don't even need it.
 

Beer Monkey

Member
Oct 30, 2017
3,326
We will never accept US food standards and the US will never want to follow the EU standards. We are self sufficient anyway so we don't even need it.
Nobody is self sufficient we all eat each other's food. Also US food standards are extremely high, even Trump hasn't managed to fuck that up.

The food we produce is super safe and the quality of our food supply (like most of the world's) is far higher than it has ever been historically.
 

asun

Member
Nov 10, 2017
89
- You can patent GMOs and many crops are neutered so that the farmer is completely dependent from the GMO designer
- GMOs that are designed to be immune against pesticides lead to excess pesticide use with hazards towards insects and humans.

These are two giant problems that are connected to GMOs. Both could be addressed by regulation, sure. But right right now in the US and South America, there are problems.

I will agree with ypu that there is little reason why GMO food per se is unhealthy for human consumption as shown by the fact that nothing except water and minerals that humans eat today even existed 10000 years ago.
I've always found the almost complete focus on direct human health aspects of GMOs very troubling. Unless you're explicitly incorporating something that is deleterious to humans, it's going to be pretty hard to accidentally do that. In addition to the above areas of concern, escapes of GMOs into the wild can lead to a host of potential unintended consequences due to things like cross-hybridization or competition with other organisms.

It's one thing to say that you're modifying an organism for better health benefits with less reliance on intensive agriculture practices and deploying it in an environment set up to reduce the chances of escape. It's another thing to say that you've engineered a RoundUp resistant strain of a crop just so that you can spray RoundUp indiscriminately. Guess which avenue got pursued? Needless to say, the regulatory environment in the US is perfectly fine with the latter happening.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,812
The joke is that the USA has such a large agriculture potential that they could easily deploy the same high food safety standards like in Europe and still be able to streamroll the world market.
 

Joni

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,022
Nobody is self sufficient we all eat each other's food. Also US food standards are extremely high, even Trump hasn't managed to fuck that up.

The food we produce is super safe and the quality of our food supply (like most of the world's) is far higher than it has ever been historically.


 
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Berry Phazon

Member
Oct 27, 2017
667
European Union
Seed patents predate GMOs by half a century plus. Invalid argument. Applies to other forms of breeding. Also your "neutered" argument is a total lie, plain and simple.


1) BASF has patented pesticide resistant seeds that are created by mutagenesis. Your argument is invalid.
2) GMOs reduce pesticide use and the GMOs that are created to be pesticide resistant are resistant against pesticides that are less toxic to humans than traditional pesticides. Your argument is invalid.

I'm still waiting for you to address my challenge. You have failed.

Try again? I am going to bed but I'll be back tomorrow.

Today I learned that the terminator genes are possible but not yet active.
In any case, I completely agree with you that Europeans have an irrational focus on GMOs. The true issue is industrialized agriculture with water poisoning of fertilizers and inadvertent bee murdering.
The fact that clever GMO use could even reduce these problems is not well-known and this isn't only people's ignorance (still part of it) but general distrust of the agro-industry.
And in the end, the true reason why we shouldn't transfer millions of tons around the ocean is the transport itself.
 
Jan 10, 2018
3,595
I hope no country budges to buy those stupid crops, not because any concern about GMO's or quality but because those idiot farmers who voted a talking hemorrhoid into office have to get what they deserve.
Crops prices dropped in the USA, of course some private companies from the EU will buy.

This is simply market reality, which the Trump administration missleading as usual claimed as victory and the media lazy as usual just copypasted because lol journalism. Think only FT got it right.
 

phonicjoy

Member
Jun 19, 2018
1,935
The focus on GMO's here is a bit much, I would say, but the fact is we don't need them as much as the US. Over here we have the highest export of food in value, second only to the US: https://www.nationalgeographic.com/magazine/2017/09/holland-agriculture-sustainable-farming/

And this in a much more densely populated country. With less chemicals. And less antibiotics.

I really don't want a downward price pressure from importing GMO crops to hurt our ability to spread actual farming practices.
 

Shadybiz

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,978
In Trump's mind, all of US agriculture = beef and soybeans.

...Really wouldn't shock me to learn that's the case.
 

Lurcharound

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,231
UK
He just prattles what he thinks makes him sound successful and he uses the language of a kid on the internet - it's always "huge" or "amazing" or "terrific" or "awesome" or "immense".

He knows his core base have zero critical thinking and just take what he (and Fox News) state as facts and he has no shame or care that the rest of us see right through his pathetic lies (and at this point they're pretty much lies really). Well it might eat away at him a bit but I'm sure he convinces himself he has done a great job and ignores or lashes out at criticism that crosses his sight.
 

Beer Monkey

Member
Oct 30, 2017
3,326
User Banned (3 days): Hostility, warned for previous infraction.
Have you seen a Trumper shut up when they're wrong?
Did you seriously just call me a Trumper?

Read my post history and fucking apologize, asshole. Mods: one ad hominem attack for another. I'll delete mine if they delete theirs.
 

Westbahnhof

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
4,851
Austria
Did you seriously just call me a Trumper?

Read my post history and fucking apologize, asshole. Mods: one ad hominem attack for another. I'll delete mine if they delete theirs.
I'm still hoping you explain this "US food standards are extremely high" business, because in the context of this thread (US-EU trading), that seems like nonsense, but it made me curious.
EDIT: Gah, I was really curious where the poster got their opinion and information from.
 
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Volimar

Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
10,513
This thread is not for accusations against members or personal insults. Please keep to the thread topic.