Not impeaching him won't directly make a difference regarding him going "under the jail" whether it succeeds or not, so what does that have to do with anything? The insidious part of your argument here is that you're implying that impeachment wont mean anything. Where do you get off with that bs? Does the media not exist to you? Do you think putting Trump on blast as much as possible won't make a dent in the public conscious? These things are so obvious to me, yet when I see these arguments I'm just wondering how you can't see all this. The public in general is highly uninformed, the media war is in full blast, and you're suggesting to sit it out? Why the fuck would you want to pass on a chance to grab so much media attention for a good cause???Impeachment by the House will not remove the president. What step(s) do you see after impeachment passes the house? If the Senate balks, he continues unabated. An asterisk beside 45 will mean less than most. I want him under the jail along with those that are empowering him.
So... I'm coming around on the contempt people have for Nancy Pelosi. I don't understand what the fuck her problem is, at this point.
Came here just to say this. I'm not even an USA citizen neither I live there, but her behavior about this whole situation is disgraceful. Democrats look weak, complicit and let Trump just get his way with things, and that's exactly what rallies Trump's base. We - as in the world - need to bring back a sense of normality. This isn't normal.
Not impeaching him won't directly make a difference regarding him going "under the jail" whether it succeeds or not, so what does that have to do with anything? The insidious part of your argument here is that you're implying that impeachment wont mean anything. Where do you get off with that bs? Does the media not exist to you? Do you think putting Trump on blast as much as possible won't make a dent in the public conscious? These things are so obvious to me, yet when I see these arguments I'm just wondering how you can't see all this. The public in general is highly uninformed, the media war is in full blast, and you're suggesting to sit it out? Why the fuck would you want to pass on a chance to grab so much media attention for a good cause???
She thinks she will have more power in the long run if she does what she is doing.
Her first duty in her job as an elected Representative is to small-d democracy, not big-d Democrats.It's not really so much that Pelosi expects to have more power in the long run because she won't be Speaker anymore anyway after her current term is up, meaning she won't have any power in the long run. It's more that Pelosi's counting the numbers and as long as she sees no public majority support for impeachment, she'll be reluctant to pull the trigger. The last thing she wants is to rush to impeachment only to find out she doesn't have the numbers to even get it through the house. (which would be an embarassment to the party) Or to find out later that her party loses its House majority because a failed impeachment procedure caused the districts of her swing state members to flip back to the GOP. Looking out for her caucus and ensuring majority control of the lower chamber for her party is literally her job.
Her first duty in her job as an elected Representative is to small-d democracy, not big-d Democrats.
What you lament as Nancy's plight is a reluctant version party over country.
I suspected you'd say the first part. It's a convenient excuse because it provides an alleged moral underpinning to small, shortsighted, and self-interested action. "What's good for the party is good for the country, so the party coming first is putting country first. Trust us." First, no thanks. Second, doesn't that sound somewhat familiar re: charges made against the other party?At this point, given how all-in the GOP is on practically everything Trump says and does, I'd say that for Pelosi party and country are pretty much in line. With the country's two-party system, anything that's potentially harmful to the Democratic party's electoral prospects in 2020 is harmful to the country as a whole because the only alternative party to Pelosi's party is a party that at this point is actively aiding and abetting corruption and authoritarianism.
Would you also like to bet if there is water in the ocean?
I suspected you'd say the first part. It's a convenient excuse because it provides an alleged moral underpinning to small, shortsighted, and self-interested action. "What's good for the party is good for the country, so the party coming first is putting country first. Trust us." First, no thanks. Second, doesn't that sound somewhat familiar re: charges made against the other party?
What I didn't expect was the last part and you're stating it like there's a functional difference right now. Democrats are passively aiding and abetting this administration escape oversight. Republicans are passively (those who won't step out of line) and actively (those who agree and work in tandem) aiding and abetting the same.
For the health of this country, the difference is negligible.
If someone is willing to bet against that, yea.
Was just thinking this. They're succeeding in making everyone exhausted, and unable to muster the strength to get outraged. Even when it's something this treasonous...The fact this thread is only 4 pages long speaks volumes about how far we've fallen.
And for some crimes, like obstruction of justice, remaining in office another four years could mean he escapes prosecution entirely, due to incredibly short statutes of limitations. Unless something changes.There's no way this fucker is not hacking the elections. As soon as he's a civilian his ass is hopefully going to prison from the NY investigations. If he remains president with his Republican Senate goons then he's untouchable for another 4 years.
It's likely not to taunt them, it's simpler than that.
Trump is a man who has done nothing but fail upwards his entire life. He was been guilty of crimes and caught red-handed his entire life. And he's been given a pass thanks to his perceived harmlessness his entire life. Trump has known nothing, nothing, but "getting away with it" his entire life. And spineless Dems in Congress (because, no, Nancy, zingers do not equal a spine) are just the latest players in this man's life who are seeing the bullshit this man pulls, have the power to hold him to task, and are going "...eh? He's not worth it."
So if you're Trump, why not? Why the fuck not?
He's never been accountable to anyone his entire life. With his wealth and fame, he's bought, borrowed or threatened his way out of trouble every time. And now he's co-opted a political party (including but not limited to its members in Congress, its donors, its media apparatus) who has a vested interest in keeping him in power.He's the logical end point of the wealthy being treated as if they are never at fault for anything. He's not had significant repercussions for anything in his life, no wonder he thinks he can get away with anything.
Definitely. Beyond the diehard redhats, there's a huge group of Republicans who may, on occasion, take issue with a thing he says or does, but they will forget or forgive so fast because it means they get to vote for the guy with the "R" next to his name. For the party of "tax cuts and deregulation" (even if those tax cuts are paid for by deficit spending and barely help the middle class at all, even if they fumbled horribly when they tried to kill the ACA).Republican voters hate Democrat voters so much they are going to watch / listen to this (if they even bother) and just shrug .
I've determined he makes slight mistakes so we will talk about him endlessly. He knows.
A Narcissist's PrayerIt is truly hard to definitively say this for certain, but I do not think that this point is outside of the realm of possibility to be honest.
He is the ultimate narcissist; narcissism in its most extreme, final form. He will do anything to keep himself in the limeline/considered, and the logic to achieve that can be so convoluted/illogical.
But then there's also the more straightforward consideration that a narcissist such as himself denies reality so hard and so often, that these kinds of "mistakes" that are about logical consistency, understanding of and respect for things beyond the individual self (the external world/Prince of Wales), aren't worth the energy to correct for him because either they 1) feed attention as you mention or 2) dont feed attention so therefore isn't worth fixing/consideration.
Republican voters hate Democrat voters so much they are going to watch / listen to this (if they even bother) and just shrug .
Eh, being from a for life Republican family and being the black sheep of said family and got into lots of debates with them I could say they have no love for Russia, it's more of a "as long as Democrats aren't in power" narrative whenever politics is brought up.A lot of them want a dictator. After all they have love and admiration for Putin.
It does seem like even if he put both feet and the entire white house staff's feet into his mouth, his base is just going to continue to be impressed.
A lot of them want a dictator. After all they have love and admiration for Putin.
The fact this thread is only 4 pages long speaks volumes about how far we've fallen.
It matters if you care about doing the right thing and attempting to provide some sort of consequences, even if it doesn't result in Trump leaving office. It's a shitty precedent to see this shit met with the world's biggest shrug. This ain't just about Trump.Would it even matter at this point? He has a year and a half left in office. Impeachment process is would take longer.
We need about 70 million other people thinking just like this.It matters if you care about doing the right thing and attempting to provide some sort of consequences, even if it doesn't result in Trump leaving office. It's a shitty precedent to see this shit met with the world's biggest shrug. This ain't just about Trump.
The attitudes in the other thread aren't a great start. Also we just need dem leadership to grow a goddamn spine.We need about 70 million other people thinking just like this.