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Trump says he wouldn't necessarily alert the FBI if approached by foreign figures with information on his 2020 opponent
- Thread starter GrapeApes
- Start date
Not impeaching him won't directly make a difference regarding him going "under the jail" whether it succeeds or not, so what does that have to do with anything? The insidious part of your argument here is that you're implying that impeachment wont mean anything. Where do you get off with that bs? Does the media not exist to you? Do you think putting Trump on blast as much as possible won't make a dent in the public conscious? These things are so obvious to me, yet when I see these arguments I'm just wondering how you can't see all this. The public in general is highly uninformed, the media war is in full blast, and you're suggesting to sit it out? Why the fuck would you want to pass on a chance to grab so much media attention for a good cause???
Do you really not see the bad optics of not even trying, when it's something so important? It doesn't matter how sure you are it will fail in the senate, this is not some kind of bill that can be compromised on. People want to see it put through, so they can move the discussion forward. We're stuck discussing whether or not democrats should be impeaching or not, and that if it were to come to impeachment the senate would very likely go counter to the house. We don't want the fucking talking point to be the former! We want to be talking about the latter, that's where the focus needs to be. Instead it's some milquetoast bullshit now because it hasn't happened yet. You can't make strong messaging based on assumptions, at the very least, we need it to happen so we can use it against them. Plus all the other excellent optics you'll get from the hearings and the house vote.
She thinks she will have more power in the long run if she does what she is doing.
Came here just to say this. I'm not even an USA citizen neither I live there, but her behavior about this whole situation is disgraceful. Democrats look weak, complicit and let Trump just get his way with things, and that's exactly what rallies Trump's base. We - as in the world - need to bring back a sense of normality. This isn't normal.
the moment he becomes useless to russia, his ass is going to be kicked to the curb and embarrassed to the highest of heavens that even envangelical christians will... haha nevermind they're so fucking stupid and too far gone. we just need to all make sure to vote.
The insidious nature of the Republican machine is what I see. I remember a Supreme Court seat stolen, because "norms" were broken and Republicans cheered. So at my most defensive, I do believe that it is possible people will not view Trump's impeachment with the rigor it deserves. If the current media is going to break it's back to appear "fair and impartial" regardless of the facts to appease a both-sides narrative, I think it is reasonable to believe that the impeachment proceedings will be skewed also.
Taking in my belief that the Republican party leadership is mostly corrupted, winning at the ballot box with less political baggage is a better outcome. I believe it quiets those who would sway when the wind says "both sides".
It's not really so much that Pelosi expects to have more power in the long run because she won't be Speaker anymore anyway after her current term is up, meaning she won't have any power in the long run. It's more that Pelosi's counting the numbers and as long as she sees no public majority support for impeachment, she'll be reluctant to pull the trigger. The last thing she wants is to rush to impeachment only to find out she doesn't have the numbers to even get it through the house. (which would be an embarassment to the party) Or to find out later that her party loses its House majority because a failed impeachment procedure caused the districts of her swing state members to flip back to the GOP. Looking out for her caucus and ensuring majority control of the lower chamber for her party is literally her job.
Her first duty in her job as an elected Representative is to small-d democracy, not big-d Democrats.
What you lament as Nancy's plight is a reluctant version party over country.
Theres no way trump doesnt cheat this election. The party of hacked emails, shady pardons, voter suppression and russian social media help.
Ive been on the fence of waiting to impeach until we had a concrete open and shut case... but fuck it. We cant let him get to the elections. We gotta get his tax returns and start the impeaching asap.
But if it goes this far..
This is why Biden and Warren shouldnt be front runners. The smear campaign is gonna be too dirty, trump fans will love it. We need someone to be a leader with no dirt or skeletons. We need someone similar but opposite. Like all great heroes and villans.
I really think Kamala, Buttigieg or Yang is the best bet. Kamala has a sharp tongue and great with speeches and asking the right questions. Her law background would destroy Trump at debates.
Yang is self-made and super intelligent with his answers. His freedom dividend would appeal to all americans. He can get the internet energized. And im pretty sure hes got no skeletons.
And Buttigieg is pretty much reverse pence/trump, but i think he would make a great vice president.
Ive been on the fence of waiting to impeach until we had a concrete open and shut case... but fuck it. We cant let him get to the elections. We gotta get his tax returns and start the impeaching asap.
But if it goes this far..
This is why Biden and Warren shouldnt be front runners. The smear campaign is gonna be too dirty, trump fans will love it. We need someone to be a leader with no dirt or skeletons. We need someone similar but opposite. Like all great heroes and villans.
I really think Kamala, Buttigieg or Yang is the best bet. Kamala has a sharp tongue and great with speeches and asking the right questions. Her law background would destroy Trump at debates.
Yang is self-made and super intelligent with his answers. His freedom dividend would appeal to all americans. He can get the internet energized. And im pretty sure hes got no skeletons.
And Buttigieg is pretty much reverse pence/trump, but i think he would make a great vice president.
At this point, given how all-in the GOP is on practically everything Trump says and does, I'd say that for Pelosi party and country are pretty much in line. With the country's two-party system, anything that's potentially harmful to the Democratic party's electoral prospects in 2020 is harmful to the country as a whole because the only alternative party to Pelosi's party is a party that at this point is actively aiding and abetting corruption and authoritarianism.
I suspected you'd say the first part. It's a convenient excuse because it provides an alleged moral underpinning to small, shortsighted, and self-interested action. "What's good for the party is good for the country, so the party coming first is putting country first. Trust us." First, no thanks. Second, doesn't that sound somewhat familiar re: charges made against the other party?
What I didn't expect was the last part and you're stating it like there's a functional difference right now. Democrats are passively aiding and abetting this administration escape oversight. Republicans are passively (those who won't step out of line) and actively (those who agree and work in tandem) aiding and abetting the same.
For the health of this country, the difference is negligible.
So, he wouldn't alert the FBI if approached by a foreign government, and the DOJ is investigating the FBI's investigation into Trump's campaign.
Totally Normal.
Totally Normal.
No, I said what's good for the party's 2020 prospects is good for the country. Ultimately, next year's election is between one big-tent party that's divided on a lot of things but in the end is committed to ending the shitshow that is the current administration and one more monolithic party with various electoral advantages committed to prolonging said shitshow. That's the two options you have. I don't see what's shortsighted about focussing on 2020's various electoral aspects because if Pelosi's party fails to regain power next year, all the symbolic impeachment votes in the world won't stop Trump from using the country as his own personal playground for 4 more years with all the long-term damage that comes with it.
The difference is simple; one party by-and-large wants oversight but has limited tools at its disposal for carrying it out. The other party by-and-large does not want oversight and is using the tools at its disposal to stymie the oversight that exists.
Personally, I could see Pelosi biting the electoral bullet if she got something concrete out of it. That's what she did with Obamacare when she forced it through the house, probably knowing it could cost the party its house majority but doing it anyway because it resulted in something concrete with long-term benefits. Impeaching Trump and then letting McConnell conduct a show trial with a forgone conclusion is probably something she sees as having less concrete benefits, so she's relucant about being a Leeroy Jenkins about it.
Republican voters hate Democrat voters so much they are going to watch / listen to this (if they even bother) and just shrug .
He is above the law and he knows it. It's simple as that. There is no mechanism to remove him or to provide any accountability. Impeachment is a practical impossibility even if the Dems were committed to upholding the constitution, which remains to be seen.
Among all the scary things about the fact that he messed with elections, got away with it because the President is above the law and now openly says he'd do it again, perhaps the scariest to me is this: the only accountability Trump could possibly face that would have an effect is the 2020 election--exactly why would he not do everything he can to corrupt that election? If he wins, he's above the law and cannot be touched. If he loses, he's fucked from the many crimes he's already been nailed for.
It's not even just him, Kemp is Georgia's Governor and that election he oversaw was obviously corrupted by him; nothing happened to Kemp. And Trump and the Republicans have already done all they visibly can to corrupt the process. US democracy is in extreme peril. Meanwhile, the Dems hem and haw, ffs.
Dems must impeach, not because it will succeed, but because it's their duty, firstly, but also they need to show in a sustained, extensive public process that Trump and the Republicans are hopleessly corrupt criminals in order to win 2020 against the massive headwinds of foreign influence and Trump/Repub corruption.
Among all the scary things about the fact that he messed with elections, got away with it because the President is above the law and now openly says he'd do it again, perhaps the scariest to me is this: the only accountability Trump could possibly face that would have an effect is the 2020 election--exactly why would he not do everything he can to corrupt that election? If he wins, he's above the law and cannot be touched. If he loses, he's fucked from the many crimes he's already been nailed for.
It's not even just him, Kemp is Georgia's Governor and that election he oversaw was obviously corrupted by him; nothing happened to Kemp. And Trump and the Republicans have already done all they visibly can to corrupt the process. US democracy is in extreme peril. Meanwhile, the Dems hem and haw, ffs.
Dems must impeach, not because it will succeed, but because it's their duty, firstly, but also they need to show in a sustained, extensive public process that Trump and the Republicans are hopleessly corrupt criminals in order to win 2020 against the massive headwinds of foreign influence and Trump/Repub corruption.
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All his supporters on cable television news use the exact same point that Trump made when defending him, nothing will come of this
Was just thinking this. They're succeeding in making everyone exhausted, and unable to muster the strength to get outraged. Even when it's something this treasonous...
Trump openly admits to saying he would break the law if it comes down to it. Wow. Fuck me.
The Mafia in the White House and Nancy Pelosi is complicit.
The Mafia in the White House and Nancy Pelosi is complicit.
And for some crimes, like obstruction of justice, remaining in office another four years could mean he escapes prosecution entirely, due to incredibly short statutes of limitations. Unless something changes.
He's never been accountable to anyone his entire life. With his wealth and fame, he's bought, borrowed or threatened his way out of trouble every time. And now he's co-opted a political party (including but not limited to its members in Congress, its donors, its media apparatus) who has a vested interest in keeping him in power.
Of course he thinks the rules, the law, don't apply to him.
Definitely. Beyond the diehard redhats, there's a huge group of Republicans who may, on occasion, take issue with a thing he says or does, but they will forget or forgive so fast because it means they get to vote for the guy with the "R" next to his name. For the party of "tax cuts and deregulation" (even if those tax cuts are paid for by deficit spending and barely help the middle class at all, even if they fumbled horribly when they tried to kill the ACA).
It is truly hard to definitively say this for certain, but I do not think that this point is outside of the realm of possibility to be honest.
He is the ultimate narcissist; narcissism in its most extreme, final form. He will do anything to keep himself in the limelight/suck attention, and the logic to achieve that can be so convoluted/illogical.
But then there's also the more straightforward consideration that a narcissist such as himself denies reality so hard and so often, that these kinds of "mistakes" that are about logical consistency, understanding of and respect for things beyond the individual self (the external world/Prince of Wales), aren't worth the energy to correct for him because either they 1) feed attention as you mention or 2) dont feed attention so therefore isn't worth fixing/consideration.
A Narcissist's Prayer
That didn't happen.
And if it did, it wasn't that bad.
And if it was, that's not a big deal.
And if it is, that's not my fault.
And if it was, I didn't mean it.
And if I did...
You deserved it.
And I'll do it again; count on it.
What incentive does a country like China have to help him win the next election if they were to interfere.
Why is this disgusting creature still in office? The so-called world police suddenly can't get rid of a single hemmorroid shitting up the most prestigious post in the country? Guess if there's no oil to steal or insurgents to bomb than there's no real playbook for policin' huh.
Would it even matter at this point? He has a year and a half left in office. Impeachment process is would take longer.
A lot of them want a dictator. After all they have love and admiration for Putin.
Nancy Pelosi when Trump commits treason: i sleep
Nancy Pelosi when a muslim congresswoman criticizes AIPAC: REAL SHIT
Nancy Pelosi when a muslim congresswoman criticizes AIPAC: REAL SHIT
Eh, being from a for life Republican family and being the black sheep of said family and got into lots of debates with them I could say they have no love for Russia, it's more of a "as long as Democrats aren't in power" narrative whenever politics is brought up.
I'm no lover of the guy, but I'd be impressed if he could physically do that.
Also, a lot of them have been brainwashed into thinking Obama was a dictator, so it's only fair they get their own.
Got downvoted to hell on Reddit for saying Dems own this if they do nothing, but I think it's true.
Republicans are obviously corrupt and complicit, but Democrats by their inaction and utterly inept messaging are making a good argument as well.
Like seriously... messaging Trump's corruption should be like shooting fish in a barrel and yet here we are gnashing our teeth waiting for Pelosi to say she's "Oh so done with him!" she doesn't even want to talk about him anymore.
Republicans are obviously corrupt and complicit, but Democrats by their inaction and utterly inept messaging are making a good argument as well.
Like seriously... messaging Trump's corruption should be like shooting fish in a barrel and yet here we are gnashing our teeth waiting for Pelosi to say she's "Oh so done with him!" she doesn't even want to talk about him anymore.
Yep. He is untouchable. Nothing is EVER going to happen to him. He can do whatever he wants and there will NEVER be any consequences. Americans just don't give a shit. As long as they get theirs they don't care that our Republic is dying...
It matters if you care about doing the right thing and attempting to provide some sort of consequences, even if it doesn't result in Trump leaving office. It's a shitty precedent to see this shit met with the world's biggest shrug. This ain't just about Trump.
We need about 70 million other people thinking just like this.
The attitudes in the other thread aren't a great start. Also we just need dem leadership to grow a goddamn spine.
You see, the Democrats can't impeach him, because they're not guaranteed a win, and Blowjobgate ultimately went badly for the Republicans, so we don't want that to mess with 2020 election results. It's not like you wouldn't, at the very least, be getting Republicans on record having to defend Trump, so you could paint them with the same "corrupt" brush.
The better idea is to do nothing, looking ineffective, discouraging your voter base, furthering the "both sides" narrative, and ultimately waiting until people have forgotten how bad this is and think "President casually admitting to crimes" is the new normal.
The better idea is to do nothing, looking ineffective, discouraging your voter base, furthering the "both sides" narrative, and ultimately waiting until people have forgotten how bad this is and think "President casually admitting to crimes" is the new normal.