Tulsi Gabbard just both sided the shutdown

norwegiandude86 · Jan 20, 2019

dots said:
How much longer will the dems hold out? Feels like they'll cave soon.

They have no reason to cave the pressure is on the President not them hell not even the republicans are blamed but Trump himself are blamed by the people.

The trump followers are pissed he is even considering caving on DACA he is the guy backed into a corner not the democrats.

Deleted member 7130 · Jan 20, 2019

Yeah, she's not it.

Cotton McKnight · Jan 20, 2019

less said:
I am really happy that Tulsi ran for President. The greater attention on her may just be the thing that gets her knocked out in a primary. Stuff like this certainly won't appeal to a significant amount of Dems.

It feels as if she is trying to appeal to the just right of moderate, and moderate.

Not someone I would vote for.

Kirblar · Jan 20, 2019

xbhaskarx said:
"Do you like Bernie... but wish he was homophobic and pro-wall?"

This group (the Obama->Trump types) was legitimately a big component of his coalition. (It was also a big part of Hillary's in her '08 run, a reason I voted Obama)

Deleted member 36054 · Jan 20, 2019

dots said:
How much longer will the dems hold out? Feels like they'll cave soon.

Cave to what?? The Republicans won't even let it get to a vote.

WedgeX · Jan 20, 2019

Kirblar said:
This group (the Obama->Trump types) was legitimately a big component of his coalition. (It was also a big part of Hillary's in her '08 run, a reason I voted Obama)

Are there actual numbers for how many people this entails? I feel like I saw a number around 10 percent?

Leandras · Jan 20, 2019

Does she honestly think the wall is really where white supremacists will stop? If Dems cave on this they'll just keep pushing their agenda more and more. They don't care about the wall either. To them it's just something to show that white supremacy can get shit done.

Isn't she also very militaristic? Not someone I'd support tbh

Limit · Jan 20, 2019

She should run as an independent and siphon enough votes from the republican base so that anyone but Trump is elected.

Deleted member 8860 · Jan 20, 2019

Bannon's candidate of choice.

Kirblar · Jan 20, 2019

WedgeX said:
Are there actual numbers for how many people this entails? I feel like I saw a number around 10 percent?

Yes.

http://graphics.wsj.com/elections/2016/how-clinton-won/

Clinton won Dems 64/36, Sanders won Independents 64/36. Generally, given the way the US political system works, Independents/"Swing Voters" are going to be more socially conservative overall than Democrats.

You can see this here with figure 2 (the GOP is basically the upper right, Dems lower left, Is/Swing Voters/Populists in the upper left) and with the very specific outliers in figure 11.

WedgeX · Jan 20, 2019

Kirblar said:
Yes.

http://graphics.wsj.com/elections/2016/how-clinton-won/

Clinton won Dems 64/36, Sanders won Independents 64/36. Generally, given the way the US political system works, Independents/"Swing Voters" are going to be more socially conservative overall than Democrats.

You can see this here with figure 2 (the GOP is basically the upper right, Dems lower left, Is/Swing Voters/Populists in the upper left) and with the very specific outliers in figure 11.

Thanks for the numbers!

Jobbs · Jan 20, 2019

Only one side is making demands in order to allow the government to stay open. You must never negotiate with this type of hostage taking because of the horrible precedent it sets. Democrats are doing the just and moral thing by not giving him anything but a clean bill.

It should always be framed this way in every discussion

Protein · Jan 20, 2019

I mean, Richard Spencer, David Duke, and Steve Bannon liked this candidate.

Kirblar · Jan 20, 2019

WedgeX said:
Thanks for the numbers!

No problem. Sanders had a VERY weird coalition of young people, lefties, and socially conservative populists (from all over the economic map) that was held together by anti-Hillary/anti-establishment sentiment. The primary difference between an Obama and Clinton voter wasn't ideology.

entremet · Jan 20, 2019

It's always the democrats.

Untzillatx · Jan 20, 2019

Grimminski · Jan 20, 2019

This ain't it Tuki Gabba

Killthee · Jan 20, 2019

jchap said:
I mean... she isn't wrong

The Democrats have passed 9 bills to reopen the government, how is she not wrong? The only thing Dems want before negotiating is for the government to reopen. Don't forget that this shutdown began under a republican led house that was unwilling to pass the extension proposed by the republican senate & the president before Fox News changed his mind.

Spartancarver · Jan 20, 2019

Buzzman said:
I'm not one to underestimate the dems ability to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory

10/10, and it hurts because it is so, so, so fucking true but I'm laughing so thank you for that

Cation · Jan 20, 2019

She has always been one of the worst of the Left...not the first time she has said or done something I strongly dislike

Deleted member 8860 · Jan 20, 2019

Protein said:
I mean, Richard Spencer, David Duke, and Steve Bannon liked this candidate.

Such crossover appeal! The Left likes her because she campaigned against Hillary and has a (D) by her name. The Right likes her because she's one of them.

Swab · Jan 20, 2019

I am very fearful that this woman will get the nomination. Imagine a Gabbard/Sanders ticket... Yikes!

Ogami Itto · Jan 20, 2019

Shame on anybody in here agreeing with her, what the fuck is wrong with you?

i like big butts · Jan 20, 2019

dots said:
How much longer will the dems hold out? Feels like they'll cave soon.

Why would they "cave" when all polling shows that Trump can't get remotely close to a majority blaming Democrats for the shutdown.

If Trump had actual message discipline, then maybe you might have a point since that might actually put Democrats under a lot of political pressure to "cave". But he doesn't, in the span of a weekend Trump has shat out the following positions on the wall:

Democrats are OBSTRUCTING everything
I'm offering amnesty WHY ARE DEMOCRATS OBSTRUCTING
Hang on, I'm not offering any amnesty stop yelling at me Fox News
Well, maybe I might offer amnesty DEMOCRATS CAN'T OBSTRUCT
I might just end up deporting people, HOW YOU LIKE THAT DEMS
Pelosi's city is shit let me tell you
Crying Chuck is a scrub
Hey, Nancy let's talk about a deal like friends?
We're already building the wall anyway so we don't need a deal

When someone is acting like this over a period of two days, you kind of can't cave because what do you even cave to? He's not even consistent in what he wants. Trump's been losing support over the two months and it isn't from Dems hating him any more than they already do. This tweet basically sums up the situation:

shadowsdarknes · Jan 20, 2019

Kevers said:
Is saying no to Trump's wall unreasonable?

It's not. But it's also irrelevant to whether or not we should be funding our government. That's the key issue.

Kevers · Jan 20, 2019

shadowsdarknes said:
It's not. But it's also irrelevant to whether or not we should be funding our government. That's the key issue.

But that is the main sticking point for Trump and his base. The democrats have come up with plenty of bills to reopen the government and McConnell won't sign them because of the wall.

$10 Bagel · Jan 20, 2019

shadowsdarknes said:
It's not. But it's also irrelevant to whether or not we should be funding our government. That's the key issue.

You've almost figured it out

whiskeystrike · Jan 20, 2019

Cation said:
She has always been one of the worst of the Left...not the first time she has said or done something I strongly dislike

I wouldn't call her a leftie or anything close to it. Call it a purity test if you want but she's at most a centrist if not center-right.

Sunster · Jan 20, 2019

What's there to sit down and discuss? We don't want a wall. Take it off the table.

Zackat · Jan 20, 2019

Aloha

i like big butts · Jan 20, 2019

shadowsdarknes said:
It's not. But it's also irrelevant to whether or not we should be funding our government. That's the key issue.

Again, this tweet basically sums up the situation:

Like this is literally what Trump has done. He has done out of his way to shut down the government, while saying he'll own the shut down, and isn't letting the government open unless they pass money for a racist monument that literally no one wants. Its not irrelevant, its directly tied to the reason why Republicans aren't funding the government.

ThisThingIsUseful · Jan 20, 2019

Sunster said:
What's there to sit down and discuss? We don't want a wall. Take it off the table.

I mean, not to mention government funding is the most basic thing I expect Congress to do. Holding it hostage over an unpopular pet project that you couldn't get done with full control?

This is one of the weirdest ways to distinguish herself she could have done.

Kirblar · Jan 20, 2019

ThisThingIsUseful said:
I mean, not to mention government funding is the most basic thing I expect Congress to do. Holding it hostage over an unpopular pet project that you couldn't get done with full control?

This is one of the weirdest ways to distinguish herself she could have done.

It's not weird at all considering that Gabbard's family only became Democrats because Hawaii is a one-party state and she was endorsed immediately by prominent white nationalists.

They knew who they were endorsing.

ThisThingIsUseful · Jan 20, 2019

Kirblar said:
It's not weird at all considering that Gabbard's family only became Democrats because Hawaii is a one-party state and she was endorsed immediately by prominent white nationalists.

They knew who they were endorsing.

Yeah, but she's presumably running in a Democratic primary as being a champion progressive.

Unless the people thinking she's running for a Fox News analyst position are onto something.

Kirblar · Jan 20, 2019

ThisThingIsUseful said:
Yeah, but she's presumably running in a Democratic primary as being a champion progressive.

Unless the people thinking she's running for a Fox News analyst position are onto something.

She got away with it in 2016 because no one paid attention to details with the people supporting the anti-Hillary candidate and thought she could pull the same trick twice.

ThisThingIsUseful · Jan 20, 2019

Kirblar said:
She got away with it in 2016 because no one paid attention to details with the people supporting the anti-Hillary candidate and thought she could pull the same trick twice.

I think it could go beyond that: if there's ever a congressperson who is in a safe district but doesn't vote as if they're in one, it's usually a Democrat. Look at some of the NYC state reps who went against gay marriage during their debates years ago on the issue. I don't mind moderate Dems at all, but it makes more sense when they're Doug Jones or Jon Tester.

Surfinn · Jan 20, 2019

Democrats: here are proposals that will actually help to fix issues with security:

Trump: Give me what I fucking want

Dems: No

Trump: Bye-Bye.

McConnell: Do what the president says

WHY WON'T THEY WORK TOGETHER

Mona · Jan 20, 2019

its the american people's fault, these representatives didn't fall out of the sky, we chose them

BLEEN · Jan 20, 2019

Mona said:
its the american people's fault, these representatives didn't fall out of the sky, we chose them

Kinda but not really when all they do is lie to get the position.

ThisThingIsUseful · Jan 20, 2019

Surfinn said:
Democrats: here are proposals that will actually help to fix issues with security:

Trump: Give me what I fucking want

Dems: No

Trump: Bye-Bye.

McConnell: Do what the president says

WHY WON'T THEY WORK TOGETHER

If there's any kind of silver lining to the president "both siding" the Charlottesville, it's that it's allowed an opening to go after the thoughtless, reductive bOtH sIdEs dialogue that's plagued politics for a long time.

Mona · Jan 20, 2019

BLEEN said:
Kinda but not really when all they do is lie to get the position.

politicians wouldn't lie if the american people held them accountable for their lies

thats on the american people too

Zeno · Jan 20, 2019

I wish Both-Siders would answer what they think a compromise would look like.

Surfinn · Jan 20, 2019

Zeno said:
I wish Both-Siders would answer what they think a compromise would look like.

Allowing Trump to take the American people hostage in order to build a useless wall, against their wishes while setting a new precedent that he can do this whenever he wants to emulate being a dictator.

whiskeystrike · Jan 20, 2019

Zeno said:
I wish Both-Siders would answer what they think a compromise would look like.

Giving Trump exactly what he wants and normalizing a political move that makes a complete mockery of our democratic norms and principles.

BLEEN · Jan 20, 2019

Mona said:
politicians wouldn't lie if the american people held them accountable for their lies

thats on the american people too

I mean, yeah, but then we vote people out and they get replaced with other liars half the time. Can't blame everything on the US citizens.
The entire system needs an overhaul from the top down. To be honest, I wouldn't even know where to start. We try and vote, and the popular vote doesn't even count so what the fuck lol

Mona · Jan 20, 2019

BLEEN said:
I mean, yeah, but then we vote people out and they get replaced with other liars half the time. Can't blame everything on the US citizens.
The entire system needs an overhaul from the top down. To be honest, I wouldn't even know where to start. We try and vote, and the popular vote doesn't even count so what the fuck lol

if the american people wanted politicians who lie in excess, or lie about big things to be jailed, severely fined, or bared from most high level employment opportunities, they would be, and you'd have alot fewer lying politicians

if the american people really wanted it, and voted to get it, it would happen

these steps should have been taken place years ago, but people just vote for whoever they see on the television and then complain afterwards

we live in a representative democracy, not a dictatorship, people dont just force their way into power, we choose them, and we can literally have anything we want if we just vote for it

in 2020, the entire house of representatives could be segregationists if the american people wanted it, all 435 seats, theres literally nothing that couldn't happen if the american people willed it

Sordid Plebeian · Jan 20, 2019

Dems are sitting down though, and Trump is the one walking out

gcubed · Jan 20, 2019

Zeno said:
I wish Both-Siders would answer what they think a compromise would look like.

The one problem with that centers around the word "think"

Earthstrike · Jan 20, 2019

Hard pass on Tulsi. Dump her campaign before it even begins.

Hours Left · Jan 20, 2019

Get lost Tootsie.

Tulsi Gabbard just both sided the shutdown

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One Winged Slayer

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