Turkish strikes on Kurdish areas in Syria have already begun.

Muad'dib · Oct 10, 2019

Not surprised, the Americans let Saddam Hussein butcher over 200,000 Iraqis in 1991 to stop the Shia uprising, before they stepped in with a no fly zone, only after they guaranteed the Shia revolution was killed. The SDF should've learned from history, the US is not a trustworthy ally, Trump even reneged on the Iran nuclear deal, it was clear as day he was going to ditch them.

Hopefully they can mount an effective resistance against that Sultan wannabee asshole Erdogan, but I think Erdogan's most potent weapon are the Arab tribes in Raqqa and Deir ez Zor turning against the SDF, using anti Kurdish sentiment of some Arab tribes.

Cryptosporidium said:

Is he implying that the Kurds are somehow more civilized and not savages like the Turkomen, Yazidis and Arabs? Is this somehow supposed to elicit foreign help? Boils my blood how the West keeps trying to portray the Kurdish regions as something of a Western democratic haven under assault, when they're not. Kuridstan Iraq, is a region being ruled by a mafia like government headed by the Barazanis who are in conflict against another Mafia family who is supported by Baghdad, the Talabanis, any sense of democracy in Kurdistan Iraq is bullshit, it's also a region with one of the highest rates of honor killings, whose forces, the Peshmerga, participating in Ethnic displacement of Yazidis and Shia Turkomen and Arabs.

spineduke · Oct 10, 2019

AcademicSaucer said:
Yes, the west didn't start it, but then the west armed groups that weren't exactly pro democracy but were anti assad and flooded the country with weapons that many times ended in the hands of Al Qaeda or ISIS. The Syrian Civil War kept on going because Russia and Iran in one side and The West, saudi Arabia, Qatar and Turkey on the other, kept propping up the actors on the ground.

That I can agree with, but everything in this region turns into a proxy war thanks to Iran/Saudi. I just take issue when people think the entire reason the Syrian uprising happened was a product of a western interference, as Assad would love to claim.

DonaldKimball · Oct 10, 2019

AcademicSaucer said:
Maybe Turkey should be expelled from NATO then, you cant have it both ways and it seems to me that the people in congress want to do that.

Why? As a punishment? Turkey has already been buddy-buddy with Russia, what do you think happens once they get kicked out of NATO? Do you want Turkey in SCO?

Another fact you forget is that NATO members can't be expelled. They can only leave on their own accord. Kicking a member out could set a dangerous precedent that could weaken the whole organization. Which is probably what Russia wants in the first place.

Erdogan is not gonna stay in power forever. He already lost local elections in Istanbul of all places.

Cryptosporidium · Oct 10, 2019

Muad'dib said:
Not surprised, the Americans let Saddam Hussein butcher over 200,000 Iraqis in 1991 to stop the Shia uprising, before they stepped in with a no fly zone, only after they guaranteed the Shia revolution was killed. The SDF should've learned from history, the US is not a trustworthy ally, Trump even reneged on the Iran nuclear deal, it was clear as day he was going to ditch them.

Hopefully they can mount an effective resistance against that Sultan wannabee asshole Erdogan, but I think Erdogan's most potent weapon are the Arab tribes in Raqqa and Deir ez Zor turning against the SDF, using anti Kurdish sentiment of some Arab tribes.

Is he implying that the Kurds are somehow more civilized and not savages like the Turkomen, Yazidis and Arabs? Is this somehow supposed to elicit foreign help? Boils my blood how the West keeps trying to portray the Kurdish regions as something of a Western democratic haven under assault, when they're not. Kuridstan Iraq, is a region being ruled by a mafia like government headed by the Barazanis who are in conflict against another Mafia family who is supported by Baghdad, the Talabanis, any sense of democracy in Kurdistan Iraq is bullshit, it's also a region with one of the highest rates of honor killings, whose forces, the Peshmerga, participating in Ethnic displacement of Yazidis and Shia Turkomen and Arabs.

Erbil is a terrible government. This is about Rojava which is based more or less on Abdullah Ocalans (PKK founder) various ideologies of socialism, democracy, and feminism. From what Im aware, Erbil and Rojava barely get along except in solidarity for a free Kurdistan.

Atrophis · Oct 10, 2019

Muad'dib said:
Not surprised, the Americans let Saddam Hussein butcher over 200,000 Iraqis in 1991 to stop the Shia uprising, before they stepped in with a no fly zone, only after they guaranteed the Shia revolution was killed. The SDF should've learned from history, the US is not a trustworthy ally, Trump even reneged on the Iran nuclear deal, it was clear as day he was going to ditch them.

Hopefully they can mount an effective resistance against that Sultan wannabee asshole Erdogan, but I think Erdogan's most potent weapon are the Arab tribes in Raqqa and Deir ez Zor turning against the SDF, using anti Kurdish sentiment of some Arab tribes.

Is he implying that the Kurds are somehow more civilized and not savages like the Turkomen, Yazidis and Arabs? Is this somehow supposed to elicit foreign help? Boils my blood how the West keeps trying to portray the Kurdish regions as something of a Western democratic haven under assault, when they're not. Kuridstan Iraq, is a region being ruled by a mafia like government headed by the Barazanis who are in conflict against another Mafia family who is supported by Baghdad, the Talabanis, any sense of democracy in Kurdistan Iraq is bullshit, it's also a region with one of the highest rates of honor killings, whose forces, the Peshmerga, participating in Ethnic displacement of Yazidis and Shia Turkomen and Arabs.

He's clearing talking about the Northern Syrian Kurds, not all Kurds in general.

Cryptosporidium · Oct 10, 2019

vogelkacke said:
Why? As a punishment? Turkey has already been buddy-buddy with Russia, what do you think happens once they get kicked out of NATO? Do you want Turkey in SCO?

Another fact you forget is that NATO members can't be expelled. They can only leave on their own accord. Kicking a member out could set a dangerous precedent that could weaken the whole organization. Which is probably what Russia wants in the first place.

Erdogan is not gonna stay in power forever. He already lost local elections in Istanbul of all places.

Do we have any reliable data on how hes percieved or polled in Turkey now? Im curious as to how the after effects of the coup have helped or hurt his regime.

Deleted member 8861 · Oct 10, 2019

Cryptosporidium said:
Do we have any reliable data on how hes percieved or polled in Turkey now? Im curious as to how the after effects of the coup have helped or hurt his regime.

I'm not sure as to where you can find reliable polls, but 2 important things:

1. The economy going to shit over the last few years and the Syrian refugee crisis being piled on top (of a country with insufficient infrastructure) hasn't helped, people are angry (and racist, but also angry).
2. In a wildly controversial local election this year, he lost Istanbul by 13k votes, handwringed the election oversight committee into redoing the election, and then lost by 800k, the first lasting political defeat he's sustained since he came to power.

KingSnake · Oct 10, 2019

The fact that the plan is to replace the Kurds in Northern Syria with Syrian refugees forcibly moved there makes any discussion about PKK and YPG moot. This is planned ethnical cleansing and is horrific. Erdogan is a fascist in all but the name.

Also Trump gloating about ISIS terrorists running through Europe is insane villain levels. Makes US an enemy of Europe really.

Deleted member 29857 · Oct 10, 2019

Cryptosporidium said:
Do we have any reliable data on how hes percieved or polled in Turkey now? Im curious as to how the after effects of the coup have helped or hurt his regime.

He's less popular in the big cities, most of rural Turkey has his back. And don't forget he's really popular among Euro Turks.

darkwing · Oct 10, 2019

KingSnake said:
The fact that the plan is to replace the Kurds in Northern Syria with Syrian refugees forcibly moved there makes any discussion about PKK and YPG moot. This is planned ethnical cleansing and is horrific. Erdogan is a fascist in all but the name.

Also Trump gloating about ISIS terrorists running through Europe is insane villain levels. Makes US an enemy of Europe really.

G7 next year will be so awkward

Dog · Oct 10, 2019

Saya said:

Heartbreaking.

Saya · Oct 10, 2019

2/ I couldn't speak for too long to my source as he himself was also busy fleeing Kobani and heading to the U.S. military base.

As we spoke over phone, he was putting his wife & kids in his car. He said Kobani is on the move, comparable to 2014 when ISIS attacked city.

3/ My source in Kobani said to me: "If Americans don't come to protect us, then we will go to them for protection."

Personally I don't know if there are still US soldiers present at that base near Lafarge factory. But clearly many Kurds hope to find protection there.

4/ After many attempts I managed to speak again to my source from Kobani.

He &family are still in car on way to US army base for protection. But acc to him, road packed with vehicles. Everyone is going south, away from border with Turkey. They might sleep in car on side of road.

Ichthyosaurus · Oct 10, 2019

Muad'dib said:
Not surprised, the Americans let Saddam Hussein butcher over 200,000 Iraqis in 1991 to stop the Shia uprising, before they stepped in with a no fly zone, only after they guaranteed the Shia revolution was killed. The SDF should've learned from history, the US is not a trustworthy ally, Trump even reneged on the Iran nuclear deal, it was clear as day he was going to ditch them.

You're thinking of Republicans - both Trump and George Bush are on that side of the aisle during these crises.

Funky Papa · Oct 10, 2019

The mask is off.

Saya · Oct 10, 2019

Wamb0wneD · Oct 10, 2019

Cryptosporidium said:

9-Volt
🤔 🤔 🤔 🤔 🤔

Deleted member 44371 · Oct 10, 2019

Can someone explain to me why its bad? I know im pretty out of the loop regarding politics but what are his real reasons for attacking? I guess not peace?

Skade · Oct 10, 2019

marzoo said:
Can someone explain to me why its bad? I know im pretty out of the loop regarding politics but what are his real reasons for attacking? I guess not peace?

Erdogan is an islamist who hates Kurds and want to eradicate them by using the good ol' terrorists card. Kurds who are basically the only people who fought ISIS efficiently and are (and maybe not anymore) holding tens of thousands of theses fucktards in prison.

Letting Erdogan kill the Kurds is first letting a genocide happen and then, also letting ISIS rise from their ashes again.

Fantastic move by the Orange Twat right ?

Queen Calanthe · Oct 10, 2019

Funky Papa said:
The mask is off.

Erdogan is a disgusting human being, but goddamn kudos to that answer against European hypocrisy

What a burn

Atram · Oct 10, 2019

German Poilical Comedy Show with a totally random Sakurai Meme

https://www.facebook.com/264820405985/posts/10156549715900986?sfns=mo

kess · Oct 10, 2019

Queen Calanthe said:
Erdogan is a disgusting human being, but goddamn kudos to that answer against European hypocrisy

What a burn

Hungary vetoed the European response.

Ac30 · Oct 10, 2019

kess said:
Hungary vetoed the European response.

Fidesz needs another migrant crisis to feed the political narrative

Xando · Oct 10, 2019

Funky Papa said:
The mask is off.

EU should answer that Turkey will be kicked out of the customs union, all aid will be freezed and sanctions will be put on turkey.

Turk economy will crash and burn without EU support.

Keikaku · Oct 10, 2019

Funky Papa said:
The mask is off.

Why the fuck didn't they shoot this sad little man down during the fake coup. Think about the amount of lives that could have been saved.

Veliladon · Oct 10, 2019

Cation said:
Trump is gonna die, the gop will lose. But their effects will last generations. The Kurds will never forget today. Their kids who will grow up without their parents, will grow to hate the US. And thereby perpetuating the cycle of hate and terrorism.

The Kurds have been fucked continually by The West since the Treaty of Lausanne. Today is just another in a long line of betrayals.

KingSnake · Oct 10, 2019

Queen Calanthe said:
Erdogan is a disgusting human being, but goddamn kudos to that answer against European hypocrisy

What a burn

Yeah, a burn with the lives of 3.6 million people. Very funny.

Funky Papa · Oct 10, 2019

Xando said:
EU should answer that Turkey will be kicked out of the customs union, all aid will be freezed and sanctions will be put on turkey.

Turk economy will crash and burn without EU support.

And a number of European countries would suffer as a consequence. Fiat and Renault wouldn't like that at all. Not to mention German investors.

That said, it calls for a substantial cool down.

Queen Calanthe · Oct 10, 2019

KingSnake said:
Yeah, a burn with the lives of 3.6 million people. Very funny.

Who said it was funny?

Europe will do fuck all, as usual and as usual they will simply condemn things for afar.

Not as bad as Trump or Erdogan, still no good at all.

Xando said:
EU should answer that Turkey will be kicked out of the customs union, all aid will be freezed and sanctions will be put on turkey.

Turk economy will crash and burn without EU support.

That would be vetoes by half of the members

WeAreStarStuff · Oct 10, 2019

This is so infuriating. Fuck Trump and everyone that votes for his evil agenda.

BarcaTheGreat · Oct 10, 2019

I have been refreshing this thread for past days and hoping some sort of positive news would pop up, knowing full well this is the beginning of a low scale ethnic cleansing. Man maybe there would be a miracle, maybe Turks will retreat... Fuck better chance seeing a tooth fairy. Off all the international blunders Trump made, I am the most furious about this. I've was cheering their fight in Kobane years back and will cheer again.

Euler · Oct 10, 2019

Queen Calanthe said:
Erdogan is a disgusting human being, but goddamn kudos to that answer against European hypocrisy

What a burn

Why are you both sides-ing this when Turkey is performing ethnic cleansing

dark_prinny · Oct 10, 2019

andymcc said:
umatched wisdom.

Fucking megalomaniac psychopath.

whytemyke · Oct 10, 2019

Ichthyosaurus said:
You're thinking of Republicans - both Trump and George Bush are on that side of the aisle during these crises.

People that'll be flying jets into football stadiums over the next 20 years aren't going to worry about the nuance of who voted for which political party. When you're in a democracy, you own the good and the bad. And this shit, unfortunately, is blood on the hands of every American citizen.

Queen Calanthe · Oct 10, 2019

Euler said:
Why are you both sides-ing this when Turkey is performing ethnic cleansing

Saying Europe is going to do fuck all is sidesing?

There is clearly one baddy here, stop trying to simple down everything mate.

And let's call it war for now and hope it will not get to ethnic cleansing

Funky Papa · Oct 10, 2019

Maybe we could ponder the potential consequences of the EU stepping into Syria with a proper military force.

Just maybe.

Specially with the situation in Cyprus still unresolved.

Euler · Oct 10, 2019

Queen Calanthe said:
Saying Europe is going to do fuck all is sidesing?

There is clearly one baddy here, stop trying to simple down everything mate.

And let's call it war for now and hope it will not get to ethnic cleansing

You were just giving kudos to Erdogan

THEVOID · Oct 10, 2019

Saya said:

Man, this chills me to the bone. How horrible.

NewDust · Oct 10, 2019

Funky Papa said:
Maybe we could ponder the potential consequences of the EU stepping into Syria with a proper military force.

Just maybe.

Specially with the situation in Cyprus still unresolved.

Ain't gonna happen, Syria, Turkey, Arab League and Russia won't allow that. UN intervention maybe, but will most likely get vetoed by Russia. All Erdogan is gonna get for this is some finger wags and some economical annoyances.

Queen Calanthe · Oct 10, 2019

Funky Papa said:
Maybe we could ponder the potential consequences of the EU stepping into Syria with a proper military force.

Just maybe.

Specially with the situation in Cyprus still unresolved.

The same issue as before, even if you could convince somehow somebody to propose it, it will never pass countless vetoes.

European military unity is still non-existent and, honestly, we are unprepared. We actually thought the issue was goin to be solved by the states.

Euler said:
You were just giving kudos to Erdogan

So? Kudos to that sentence, does that mean Europe is as bad as Erdogan?

Please fucking stop reading into things, it's honestly embarrassing

ItsBobbyDarin · Oct 10, 2019

I am so furious right now. I am disappointed in the EU. They are doing shit, when they actually could. I expected nothing from Trump, buy from the EU much more.

I can only hope there are US soldiers at that factory that can take them in.

Funky Papa · Oct 10, 2019

It's not even that. You can't blame the EU for doing nothing while acknowledging that it can't.

NATO members are not going to send their soldiers to die under the bombs of another NATO member. It'd be Pandemonium. And sanctions against Turkey would be met with a humanitarian catastrophe.

Do you think Turkey would bus those refugees to the EU? No, it would simply allow their passage. Erdogan is not "burning" the EU. It's straight up telling that it will create an humanitarian catastrophe as retaliation.

Tugatrix · Oct 10, 2019

The thing is since the turkish negotiation fiasco that send them to arms of uncle vlad, the Trump administration have been pleasing Erdogan and the latest is to offer them free of guilt the curds, this is a gross betrayal

Queen Calanthe · Oct 10, 2019

Funky Papa said:
It's not even that. You can't blame the EU for doing nothing while acknowledging that it can't.

You can because they fucking could prepare for the issue, they fucking could prepare to intervene or help the refuges.

We fucking could do sooo many things, but no, we wasted 4 years watching America deal with it until fucking Trumps drops it.

Now it is our issue and we can't do anything effective, but we could mate, we fucking could.

Muad'dib · Oct 10, 2019

Skade said:
Erdogan is an islamist who hates Kurds and want to eradicate them by using the good ol' terrorists card. Kurds who are basically the only people who fought ISIS efficiently and are (and maybe not anymore) holding tens of thousands of theses fucktards in prison.

Letting Erdogan kill the Kurds is first letting a genocide happen and then, also letting ISIS rise from their ashes again.

Fantastic move by the Orange Twat right ?

As much as I respect what the SDF did against ISIS in Raqqa, it was only in the Syrian north and Iraqi Kurdish territories, defeating ISIS is not a Kurdish feat alone, the bloodiest battle against ISIS was won by the Iraqi army and the IRGC in Mosul, Tikrit, Fallujah, people forget those battles even tho they were the most decisive battles that depleted ISIS from its manpower.

Assad and Russia also beat ISIS from Palmyra to Deir Ez Zor.

Attributing the defeat of ISIS to SDF alone doesn't do justice to the thousands of Iraqis who died fighting them, and even the Syrian regime army regardless of the regime's action against the opposition.

Euler · Oct 10, 2019

Queen Calanthe said:
So? Kudos to that sentence, does that mean Europe is as bad as Erdogan?

Please fucking stop reading into things, it's honestly embarrassing

Erdogan is the one fucking things up, he doesn't deserve kudos for being an ass and threatening another migrant crisis. It's on the same level as Trump's "oh the ISIS fighters are just going to EU, not my problem" statement.

Queen Calanthe · Oct 10, 2019

Euler said:
Erdogan is the one fucking things up, he doesn't deserve kudos for being an ass and threatening another migrant crisis. It's on the same level as Trump's "oh the ISIS fighters are just going to EU, not my problem" statement.

It's really not the same fucking thing, you can be the worst person in the world, but if you make and obvious statement, it's still obvious.

Europe it's raising its voice without a body to follow up

Euler · Oct 10, 2019

Queen Calanthe said:
It's really not the same fucking thing, you can be the worst person in the world, but if you make and obvious statement, it's still obvious.

Europe it's raising its voice without a body to follow up

Europe shouldn't have to do shit or act as world police to stop Erdogan from fucking with the Kurds again. Erdogan should just stop fucking with the Kurds. Turkey has done enough genocide on the Kurds.

AcademicSaucer · Oct 10, 2019

Muad'dib said:
As much as I respect what the SDF did against ISIS in Raqqa, it was only in the Syrian north and Iraqi Kurdish territories, defeating ISIS is not a Kurdish feat alone, the bloodiest battle against ISIS was won by the Iraqi army and the IRGC in Mosul, Tikrit, Fallujah, people forget those battles even tho they were the most decisive battles that depleted ISIS from its manpower.

Assad and Russia also beat ISIS from Palmyra to Deir Ez Zor.

Attributing the defeat of ISIS to SDF alone doesn't do justice to the thousands of Iraqis who died fighting them, and even the Syrian regime army regardless of the regime's action against the opposition.

Yes, the Sotooro (christian militias) were also part of the fight, Hezbollah and the Iranian militias too.

Hell when it comes down to it it was the Iraqi Hezbollah using Abrams tanks against ISIS near Mosul.

It was a real mess

Muad'dib · Oct 10, 2019

AcademicSaucer said:
Yes, the Sotooro (christian militias) were also part of the fight, Hezbollah and the Iranian militias too.

Hell when it comes down to it it was the Iraqi Hezbollah using Abrams tanks against ISIS near Mosul.

It was a real mess

Seeing IRGC backed fighters manning Abrams tanks against ISIS was probably the strangest thing I've seen in the Middle East.

Queen Calanthe · Oct 10, 2019

Euler said:
Europe shouldn't have to do shit or act as world police to stop Erdogan from fucking with the Kurds again. Erdogan should just stop fucking with the Kurds. Turkey has done enough genocide on the Kurds.

Ok, so in your Fable world, after Trump sold Siria to Turkey, Turkey should stop themselves, with no intervention.

Ok. Let's ignore every war in the world, they should stop themselves and behave. Let's ignore the fact that war next to Europe is an issue Europe should take care of.

But no, writing outraged comments on ResetEra is enough, they should understand alone that peace is better

You just solved world problems, are you suffering or causing sufferance? Just don't.

Turkish strikes on Kurdish areas in Syria have already begun.

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