Turn-based games where normal encounters are fun, and engaging?

[Firmament1]

A friend of mine was recently discussing his issues with turn-based games, and one point that he brought up was how in many of them, normal encounters just aren't engaging, don't require much strategy or thought, and how they eventually boil down to using the same strategy that quickly kills them over and over again. In fact, lots of people praise turn-based games when encounters can be avoided, or easily cleared.

Now to some extent, I think an explanation for this is that in a lot of games, random fights are intended to be a drain on your resources. It's more of a macro, big picture thing of whether you can afford to sacrifice some resources while exploring a dungeon in order to get exp, and other potentially helpful loot.

But regardless, I do think he had a point, and now I'm wondering what turn-based games make normal encounters fun fights in their own right. I generally think Fire Emblem is good at this, if mostly because every encounter outside of random skirmish maps in the later games are much more designed. And from what I played of Divinity Original Sin, normal fights tend to have a lot of weight, and can fuck up your party pretty badly.

So, your thoughts?

 

[EntelechyFuff]

SMT3 and DDS were good for this. More modern SMT (and Persona) have lost it sadly.

I have a hard time thinking of many other examples. I started to say FF13 but it's ATB-based so I'm not sure it would count as turn-based.

 

[Anno]

Divinity Original Sin 1/2 are as good as I've played at this. BG3 is shaping up to be very good as well.

XCOM 2 as well, though it seemed like you were mostly asking about RPGs.

 

[808s & Villainy]

SMT V had very engaging normal encounters

 

[Patitoloco]

XCOM

 

[ShadowSoldier89]

Soul Hackers 2

 

[DiipuSurotu]

Valkyrie Profile

 

[Dervius]

Divinity Original Sin 1/2 are as good as I've played at this. BG3 is shaping up to be very good as well.

Click to shrink...

This.

Every fight was good fun, though some can be tactically avoided.

 

[GuitarGuruu]

Grandia 2.

 

[spman2099]

The Shadow Hearts series has great encounters. Part of that probably comes down to how much I enjoy the "Judgment Ring" mechanic. I also enjoy every battle in Final Fantasy Tactics and Tactics Ogre immensely. Oh, and Suikoden 2's combat is so breezy and fast-paced that I feel like the random encounters are pretty fun (especially if you are experimenting with different units).

 

[Tunichtgut]

Grandia 1 and 2 are pretty fun.

 

[SixelAlexiS]

Mario & Luigi series, both Ubisoft's South Park games.

 

[Valus]

I think the issue is that if you make random encounters in standard JRPGs too engaging you run the risk of burning the player out.

Divinity OS 2 works because there aren't a ton of encounters. Nor are there any random encounters. Every encounter is specifically crafted like a puzzle for you to solve, and they are spread out enough to not wear you out.

 

[ventuno]

The Shadow Hearts series should be up your alley since the Judgment Ring still requires your involvement with every action.

Otherwise, SMT 3, Nocturne and DDS kept you involved given that you still have to look out for instant death skills, critical hits and making sure your party and skills match the monsters in the area. DDS also has a unique mechanic that can have you start battles with tougher odds.

SMTV is good at first, but I personally found it became pretty easy early on in Normal mode due to enemy moves being easy to predict. I still had fun, but you have a lot of tools at your disposals

Perhaps strategy games like Fire Emblem might be more appealing to you. I'd also personally recommend Devil Survivor.

 

[Custódio]

Divinity Original Sin 1/2. Every encounter is exciting. This is the true evolution of turn based rpgs.

 

[uncledonnie]

Wasteland 3

 

[Mukrab]

I think the issue is that if you make random encounters in standard JRPGs too engaging you run the risk of burning the player out.

Click to shrink...

Then make less of them? The solution fo4 a game being too engaging cant be making parts of the game boring.

 

[Kalor]

I think Scarlet Grace is a perfect example where each fight can feel meaningful and it's lifted by one of the best turn based systems out there.

 

[Hella]

Divinity Original Sin 1/2 are as good as I've played at this. BG3 is shaping up to be very good as well.

XCOM 2 as well, though it seemed like you were mostly asking about RPGs.

Click to shrink...

Larian really sets the highest bar. The thing that puts them apart from the pack is how much the actual environments factor in; just your angle of attack can determine if you're facing a decisive victory or crushing defeat. You'll see encounters that seem impossible and your tactics always overcome 'em. There are no trash mobs or wasted fights, just new challenges to overcome; it's uniformly brilliant work.

 

[Tendo]

Into the breach. One of my favorite games.

Darkest Dungeon as well, but thats a rough game and might not be what you are after.

 

[Yam's]

I enjoy the press-turn of the Persona/Shin Megami games, but saying they require strategy would be a bit exaggerated to be honest. At least they're fun and fast.

I honestly cannot think of any rpg where in the long run (or sometimes not so long) you can simply spam the same attacks.

Even in games like Bravely Default or Octopath Traveler that do require a bit more strategy than your average j-rpg, you end up using the same strategies. But reaching that point and building your team to achieve that goal is part of the fun.

That being said I'm not sure I'd enjoy a rpg where every battle was a struggle that would have me adopt a new strategy. We have bosses for that and I'm fine with the random encounters being more straightforward as long as they don't take much time.

 

[Dakkon]

TROUBLESHOOTER Abandoned Children, just set it on a good difficulty for you and it'll be golden.

 

[Folie]

There's a lot about Octopath Traveller that I found to be average at best, but the stacking of turns and exploiting weaknesses remained satisfying over the 30hrs I put in.

I also like a specific flavour of Fire Emblem, which is either when playing on a slightly lower difficulty or with powerful units and the main thrust of each turn becomes 'how many enemy units can I decimate with these next few actions' (in contrast to more conservative play styles that XCOM encourages)

 

[Lobster Roll]

Final Fantasy Tactics. Unless you've gotten to a point where you're starting to get a little OP, you can get wiped by a team of Chocobos if you're not mentally prepared for the fight.

 

[platypotamus]

That's right my friends it is time once again to talk about the best turn based game: Soccer: Tactics and Glory. Every match is engaging! They are all turn based. TURN. BASED. TACTICAL. SOCCER.

 

[Elodes]

I thought the later Etrian Odyssey games, especially V, did this very well.

 

[DaciaJC]

Getting into fights in Darkest Dungeon is always welcomed, simply because it gives you more opportunities to enjoy Wayne June's brilliant narration.

 

[Divine Moleman]

The Shadow Hearts series should be up your alley since the Judgment Ring still requires your involvement with every action.

Click to shrink...

My opinion on Shadow Hearts is that while the battle system appears robust at first glance it fails because its just too easy. There are multiple systems within the battle system. You can reposition your character, do different attacks that affect your enemies position, you can mix up special oils to give buffs with the fortune teller lady, you can transform into different demons with the main guy... its goes on and on and seems cool, but the moment you engage with just ONE of these systems the game becomes so easy!

I got about 20ish hours in a its a great game with cool characters and friendship but the battle system despite having the potential for good strategy never put enough pressure on me to do it. By the time I stopped playing I was just carving through enemies and bosses without any previous grinding.

Ranting aside, OP, my pick would be Parasite Eve. It's a bit like a simplified version of FF7 remake with real-time and turn based both in the same battle system

 

[Deleted member 6263]

Grandia 2.

Click to shrink...

This is a good answer. It helped that the game itself was also relatively short compared to JRPGs, but the whole timeline mechanic where you try to sneak in attacks to either delay or cancel enemy attacks was always a fun time.

"GOLDEN HAMMER................................CRASH!" is like a core memory now lol

 

[hikarutilmitt]

Valkyrie Profile

Click to shrink...

+1000

Was going to be my suggestion. Even the dungeon crawling and such is different.

 

[Alpheus]

Wild Arms 3 is pretty good from what I remember. Your saves (out in the field) and continues (if u wipe) are tied to a consumable item, and your healing consumables are berries in a world that's mostly desert so it made combat choices feel impactful.

Status ailment remedy items are more plentiful and easier to access than the healing consumables so the game also throws ailments at ya often and a character's special skill let's her turn any consumables used in battle to basically make them AoE while only consuming one unit of the item so you're able to stretch them further than u might initially think.

Completing the side quest that let's ya garden definitely takes the bite out of the difficulty though but you have to scout for locations on the world map on your own so even finding the place for the side quest might take the player a bit to get their garden unlocked.

 

[mute]

Now to some extent, I think an explanation for this is that in a lot of games, random fights are intended to be a drain on your resources. It's more of a macro, big picture thing of whether you can afford to sacrifice some resources while exploring a dungeon in order to get exp, and other potentially helpful loot.

Click to shrink...

This is what a lot of people overlook but also unfortunately so many games do the resource management poorly to the extent that the encounters are all that is there. It is a difficult balance.

 

[The GOAT]

Most of the game surrounding the combat is mediocre (and buggy!), but ToEE's encounters were fantastic. A bit difficult at times, but overall one of the best representations of D&D combat ever.

 

[NabiscoFelt]

Do Divinity and Fire Emblem "count"? Like not to take away from either of those series combat but each encounter is purposefully designed so it's not like they need to be designed as filler (and I'll be real there are a lot of FE maps and DOS 2 encounters that still feel a bit fillery)

I agree that turn based random/mob encounters work best as a resource drain so my favorite examples are the ones that do a good job of forcing that drain. Playing through the excellent indie RPG Crystal Project right now that does this quite well

 

[SofNascimento]

Expedition: Rome:

Expedition: Rome is one of the best cRPG I've ever played, please allow me try to and convince you to give it a chance (Now on Gamepass! Free Demo!)

What is an Expedition: Rome you might be asking. Let me tell you: it's a cRPG set in Ancient Rome. You play as a legatus, a general, in command of a roman legion, tasked to fight the enemies of the republic and ultimately set the course of history. More precisely it's set during the end of the...

www.resetera.com

I don't think every encounter hits that sweet spot of feeling like every decision can be your last, but the combat is very engaging. And you can always use less soldiers if you want more challenge.

 

[balohna]

SMT V had very engaging normal encounters

Click to shrink...

For the most part, but once you learn each enemy type in an area it loses some of that. That said though, it feels like a reward for putting the effort in to learn each of them. And you'll have to really calculate your fusions if you're like "this was my ice guy for that one strong enemy that's week to ice... do I really want to lose him?". Plus managing MP, etc.

Actually yeah, it's good.

 

[Dyno]

Honestly think only xcom ticks this box for me. I'd even say in that case the standard encounters are far more fun than the bosses which I find kinda annoying.

 

[Theswweet]

It was already said, but SaGa: Scarlet Grace absolutely dominates this metric.

 

[CHC]

Definitely going to vouch for Divinity Original Sin 2. There is literally never a repeated encounter. They barely even reuse enemies and when they do the environment is so different that the encounter usually has a wildly different cadence to it.

FWIW I also found Persona 5 to be pretty engaging. There's some degree of repetition but the really hard-hitting nature of exploiting enemy weaknesses in certain orders kept it from feeling braindead. The element system, tag teaming, decent enemy variety, and ability to avoid encounters entirely if you wish all worked to keep it from feeling like a grind, which is quite a feat in such a long game.

 

[HylianSeven]

SMT3 and DDS were good for this. More modern SMT (and Persona) have lost it sadly.

I have a hard time thinking of many other examples. I started to say FF13 but it's ATB-based so I'm not sure it would count as turn-based.

Click to shrink...

This, although I'll give a mention to SMTV too. The encounters in that game were really cool because they would often go pretty quick, but there really were a lot of potential conversations with demons. Plus having specific demons in your party would trigger special conversations, such as having Decarabia and encountering Forneus (referencing scheduled meeting in Nocturne that never happened, as well as sharing Goetia lore), or having Black Frost and encountering Jack Frost (who tells Jack Frost to take milk from the very back in supermarkets). A demon getting the initiative can often end up in the demon asking for money to leave you alone, and sometimes they let you off the hook after once, or they'll keep asking for more and you have to decide if you want to spend that money or go back to your last save (depending on how long ago that was) if you can't survive their attacks.

 

[Ra]

I think the issue is that if you make random encounters in standard JRPGs too engaging you run the risk of burning the player out.

Click to shrink...

Xenosaga Episode II is a great example for this point. The battle system was made for bosses, but beyond tedious while plowing through the cannon fodder.

 

[JonnyDBrit]

I realise an unspoken distinction in the OP is in how 'turn based' here is 'turn based RPG' in particular, and as likely has a separate overworld from battle screen

Because admittedly, turn based strategy games often bypass a lot of this through the wider structural differences. The encounters are, in most cases, not truly random, but whole battles as held on a single map. The number of enemies is almost always predetermined, and 'turns' themselves are not for individual characters, but for your whole side.

These games, like Super Robot Wars or Fire Emblem, often place an emphasis on pre-battle positioning, as much as actual attacks. Wanna hit somebody with Mazinger Z's rocket punch? You're gonna have to get within 4 squares first. You got a MAP weapon that would potentially finish off three enemies at once? Best start thinking of where you've gotta be to the 2 radius star to cover them all. Wanna use your battleship's big gun? Well, you can't use that one *and* move, so make a choice, buddy. As a result, it's not just waiting to hit someone (unless everyone ends up clustered in the middle of the map all in range of each other), but you get to have some thinking about how you're gonna make it happen, and what you're setting up for afterwards.

These games can also bank a lot on player investment in characters, especially if they're adapted from an existing franchise. Yes, you will see Mazinger Z's rocket punch 500 times over the course of gameplay, but if you're a fan of that series, it's a treat, not a problem. If you're not so much a fan, well they let you skip it anyway, so you can then to whatever unit is your favourite.

 

[Ravelle]

An oldie but I really liked Thousand Arms back in the day, encounters were super quick and snappy.

Let's Play Thousand Arms Episode 3 - Battles & Combat Galore!

With nothing else in store!Game: Thousand ArmsPublisher: AtlasRelease Date: 1998Remember to support the creators!-Heya People!Welcome to this new Let's Play ...

www.youtube.com

 

[7thFloor]

Baldur's Gate 3
Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead

 

[Herr Starr]

You definitely want to give the Etrian Odyssey games a look. Unlike most JRPGs that treat random encounters as nothing more than a (very) slow drain on your resources that poses no real threat beyond that, the Etrian Odyssey games will kick your ass from the very first encounter. Even a seasoned party needs to stay alert at all times or risk a total party kill when they least expect it. This is a game where your consumables and the Escape button are your best friends.

This is one of the main reasons why I instantly fell in love with this series. It doesn't waste your time with random encounters. It makes them meaningful without reducing their frequency.

It also helps that every encounter tends to give you things you need, which makes them feel rewarding as well as punishing.

 

[Flygon]

If you enjoy strategy RPGs, stickybeek Heroes of Might and Magic III. It tends to be very cheap on GOG, and the fan expansion Horn of the Abyss (or the HD fanpatch in general) really tightly winds up the gameplay loop with the more conventional encounters. So it becomes quite speedy for a PC boardgame TRPG.

 

[ramenline]

I enjoy the press-turn of the Persona/Shin Megami games, but saying they require strategy would be a bit exaggerated to be honest. At least they're fun and fast.

I honestly cannot think of any rpg where in the long run (or sometimes not so long) you can simply spam the same attacks.

Even in games like Bravely Default or Octopath Traveler that do require a bit more strategy than your average j-rpg, you end up using the same strategies. But reaching that point and building your team to achieve that goal is part of the fun.

That being said I'm not sure I'd enjoy a rpg where every battle was a struggle that would have me adopt a new strategy. We have bosses for that and I'm fine with the random encounters being more straightforward as long as they don't take much time.

Click to shrink...

agreed, nocturne/DDS normal encounters are a cut above the competition but there's still a lot of tedium in repeating the same basic moves

divinity original sin 2 is definitely the best for me, but its hard to call them "normal encounters" when they all feel really handcrafted. man, i really got get around to playing DOS1 already

 

[YellowBara]

Mother 3, but it's almost entirely because of the combo mechanic. I can have fun with just about every battle if I always try to get 16 hit combos to the beat. The combat itself is serviceable enough, but combos make the whole game a real fun time.

 

[Frankie Williamson]

Expedition: Rome:

Expedition: Rome is one of the best cRPG I've ever played, please allow me try to and convince you to give it a chance (Now on Gamepass! Free Demo!)

What is an Expedition: Rome you might be asking. Let me tell you: it's a cRPG set in Ancient Rome. You play as a legatus, a general, in command of a roman legion, tasked to fight the enemies of the republic and ultimately set the course of history. More precisely it's set during the end of the...

www.resetera.com

I don't think every encounter hits that sweet spot of feeling like every decision can be your last, but the combat is very engaging. And you can always use less soldiers if you want more challenge.

Click to shrink...

I really need to play this. I played through Vikings twice and loved it.

 

[saintjules]

View: https://youtu.be/Lx9HhZqI6eo