TV Displays and Tech Thread |OT2| There Is No Perfect TV ™ (Read The OP)

Oct 25, 2017
4,310
#1



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Welcome to the second TV thread. Come in to talk about television displays, HDR/Dolby Vision, tips/tricks/settings and more. If you need help picking out a TV, whatever your needs, please ask!


Thread will be updated regularly as new models and information come out.

One the to add since it came up countless times in OT1: while OLED may be considered by many to be the best TV tech widely available today, it is not perfect. As the thread title states, there is no perfect TV. The overwhelming majority of regulars in this community will not blindly suggest one tech or another, instead working with you, your use cases, your room layout, your preferences and your budget to land on the best set...for YOU.
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Burn-in is a concern for many gamers. OLED TV's have a low risk for permanent image retention with varied/general use. The colors red/orange are most susceptible, and display brightness impacts the chances as well. Many OLED owners on Era have put in well over 100+ hours into games (without varied content) and have not experienced permanent image retention. Kyoufu on the other hand has a Netflix logo burned in, something that seldom appears on screen. The poll conducted at AVS below have 9% of OLED owners experiencing permanent burn-in. Having owned 4 OLED's, my personal opinion is that outside of panel lottery, permanent image retention is unlikely. Below are two resources worth looking at when researching OLED burn-in.

Burn-in Resources

ResetEra Thread to discuss Burn-In: https://www.resetera.com/threads/i-seem-to-have-image-burn-on-my-oled-tv-is-this-a-thing.31924/

RTINGS Real Usage Test - https://www.rtings.com/tv/learn/real-life-oled-burn-in-test
AVS Owners Poll - http://www.avsforum.com/forum/40-ol...ibit-image-persistence-burn.html#post55103196



Best Budget TV's ($150-650)

TCL S Series(LCD, 720-1080p, 28-49 inches, 28.7ms input lag)
Samsung NU7100(LCD, 4k, HDR, 40-75 inches, 14ms input lag)
TCL R617(LCD, 4k, HDR, 55-65 inches, 19ms input lag) (US Only)

Best Mid Range TV's ($650-$1200)

Samsung NU8000 (LCD, 4k, HDR, 49-82 inches, 18ms input lag)
Vizio P Series (2018)(LCD, 4k, HDR, 55-75 inches, 15ms input lag, 27ms input lag @4k HDR) (US Only)
Sony X900F(US) XF9005(EU)(LCD, 4k, HDR, 49-85 inches, 24ms input lag @4k, 40ms input lag @1080p)

Best Gaming TV's ($1200++)

Sony X930/40E(LCD, 4k, HDR, 55-75 inches, 25ms input lag @4k, 42ms input [email protected])
Sony A8F(OLED, 4k, HDR, 55-77 inches, 30.7ms input lag @4k, 47.4ms input [email protected])
Vizio P Quantum(LCD, 4k, HDR, 65 inches, 15.5ms input lag, 27.6ms input lag @4k HDR) (US Only)
Samsung Q9FN (LCD, 4k, HDR, 65-75 inches, 22ms input lag)
LG B8/C8(OLED, 4k, HDR, 55-77 inches, 21.4ms input lag, 29ms input lag @4k HDR)











Reference Material (Games)
Resident Evil 7
Forza Horizon 3 + Forza Motorsport 7 + Gran Turismo Sport
Horizon Zero Dawn
Uncharted 4 + TLL
Ratchet & Clank
God of War
Detroit: Become Human

Reference Material (Movies and Documentaries)
Mad Max: Fury Road
John Wick 2
Blade Runner 2049
Blade Runner
Planet Earth 2
Blue Planet 2
Sicario: Day of the Soldado
The Matrix Trilogy
Dunkirk
Lucy
Avengers: Infinity War
Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2
The Dark Tower
Pacific Rim
Ready Player One
Power Rangers
The Shallows
Passengers

Reference Material (Shows)
Chef's Table
Altered Carbon
The Final Table
Bosch
The Grand Tour
Godless



HDMI 2.1 Feature Comparison Image




HDMI 2.1

The new HDMI2.1 specification has just been announced and it contains some really good improvements over HDMI 2.0
  • Higher Video Resolutions support a range of higher resolutions and faster refresh rates including 8K60Hz and 4K120Hz for immersive viewing and smooth fast-action detail.
  • Dynamic HDR ensures every moment of a video is displayed at its ideal values for depth, detail, brightness, contrast, and wider color gamuts-on a scene-by-scene or even a frame-by-frame basis.
  • 48G cables enable up to 48Gbps bandwidth for uncompressed HDMI 2.1 feature support including 8K video with HDR. The cable is backwards compatible with earlier versions of the HDMI Specification and can be used with existing HDMI devices.
  • eARC supports the most advanced audio formats such as object-based audio, and enables advanced audio signal control capabilities including device auto-detect.
  • Game Mode VRR features variable refresh rate, which enables a 3D graphics processor to display the image at the moment it is rendered for more fluid and better detailed gameplay, and for reducing or eliminating lag, stutter, and frame tearing.
  • FAQ here: https://www.hdmi.org/manufacturer/hdmi_2_1/index.aspx


Reviews
http://www.rtings.com/tv
http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk
http://www.consumertop.com/best-projector-for-gaming/

Calibration
Our very own III-V, post #6
Our very own FrankNitty, post #48

Data
https://displaylag.com

Compare TV Sizes
http://displaywars.com

HD Fury linker FAQ
https://www.resetera.com/posts/11357736/

Acknowledgements
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Special thanks to Gn0mercy for his excellent work on OT1 and for telling me after 19,900 posts that he couldn't do OT2!

Also, a special thanks to GearDraxon for putting together the utterly amazing banner!

Lastly, a special thanks to Dinjooh for the dope headers!!
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Nov 13, 2017
306
Miami, FL
#2
Oh wow, the new thread came sooner than expected.

Anyway, continuing my comments on the limitations of the Rtings test bench:

Their test doesn't account for upscaling of sub4K content which annoys me because many people still watch tons of sub4K content...
I respect the Rtings crew but I've always found their system lacking. Yeah, it is totally objective, but sometimes the results are misleading. For one thing I'm pretty sure some manufacturers have figured out that they should optimize certain algorithms to get high scores on test patterns and get overall good marks. This is why I like Vincent Teoh's approach. He will put up test patterns and take most of the same measurements, but then he puts up real world content and discusses how those results translate to real world viewing.

For example, the Q9FN got tremendous contrast scores on Rtings. I think with local dimming the contrast ratio was 19K:1 or some ridiculous number. Basically the best ever tested on an LED. But when HDTVTest reviewed it, Vincent demonstrated that to get such a high score meant the local dimming algorithm was way too aggressive. He used a scene from Gravity where almost all the stars disappeared on the Q9FN, but the Z9D still showed most of them. Even setting local dimming on low on the Q9 didn't have it outperform the Sony.

You can't go by test patterns alone.
 
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~Fake

User requested permanent ban
Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,966
#4
Still curious about that new Samsung tech MicroLED. And still trying to configure my UN40JU6000G.
Maybe I go back to BRAVIA after all.
 
Oct 26, 2017
1,774
#5
I think my TV is perfect!? Haha

Nice job OP, great to see HDR section!

I do have to question Bosch though.......has to be the worst piece of HDR I've ever seen :0
 
Oct 28, 2017
439
#6
This may be a little OT, but am I right in thinking that there's no way to watch Marvel movies in 4k/HDR in Canada unless you have a physical Bluray player? FYI we don't have Vudu up here.
 
OP
OP
Bumrush
Oct 25, 2017
4,310
#7
Oh wow, the new thread came sooner than expected.

Anyway, continuing my comments on the limitations of the Rtings test bench:



I respect the Rtings crew but I've always found their system lacking. Yeah, it is totally objective, but sometimes the results are misleading. For one thing I'm pretty sure some manufacturers have figured out that they should optimize certain algorithms get high scores on test patterns and get overall good marks. This is why I like Vincent Teoh's approach. He will put up test patterns and take most of the same measurements, but then he puts up real world content and discusses how those results translate to real world viewing.

For example, the Q9FN got tremendous contrast scores on Rtings. I think with local dimming the contrast ration was 19K:1 or some ridiculous number. Basically the best ever tested on an LED. But when HDTV test reviewed it, Vincent demonstrated that to getting such a high score meant the local dimming algorithm was way too aggressive. He used a scene from Gravity where almost all the stars disappeared on the Q9FN, but the Z9D still showed most of them. Even setting local dimming on low on the Q9 didn't have it outperform the Sony.

You can't go by test patterns alone.
I agree with a lot of what you write which is why I would ALWAYS recommend consuming multiple reviews for a significant purchase like a TV. Rtings is always my starting point when I want to read thoughts on a TV...then I'll dive deeper.
 
Oct 26, 2017
1,774
#9
Oh wow, the new thread came sooner than expected.

Anyway, continuing my comments on the limitations of the Rtings test bench:



I respect the Rtings crew but I've always found their system lacking. Yeah, it is totally objective, but sometimes the results are misleading. For one thing I'm pretty sure some manufacturers have figured out that they should optimize certain algorithms get high scores on test patterns and get overall good marks. This is why I like Vincent Teoh's approach. He will put up test patterns and take most of the same measurements, but then he puts up real world content and discusses how those results translate to real world viewing.

For example, the Q9FN got tremendous contrast scores on Rtings. I think with local dimming the contrast ration was 19K:1 or some ridiculous number. Basically the best ever tested on an LED. But when HDTV test reviewed it, Vincent demonstrated that to getting such a high score meant the local dimming algorithm was way too aggressive. He used a scene from Gravity where almost all the stars disappeared on the Q9FN, but the Z9D still showed most of them. Even setting local dimming on low on the Q9 didn't have it outperform the Sony.

You can't go by test patterns alone.
The Panny 902 was similar to the Q9FN in my exp, 902 smashed the ZD9 in blacks, but muted peaks on its highest local dimming setting level, I could never feel content, i wanted the peaks and the blacks, and soon realised that low zone LCD's can't achieve that, and yeah I do mean 500/600 as low.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,753
#10
Seems like OP should mention the LG OLEDs have updated to the 8 series, and Samsung’s QLEDs seem worth a mention for their early adoption of VRR if nothing else.

Also, add this image to OP?

 
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OP
OP
Bumrush
Oct 25, 2017
4,310
#13
RedlineRonin why haven't you been telling me how important Audio is to the TV viewing experience!?!? I just hooked the Denon + B6.2s up - didn't even run Audyssey - and watched Mad Max on Vudu and it was an entirely different experience. And that's just two bookshelf speakers as fronts!!!

Also, add this image to OP?

Can you give me a quick write-up on what this is showing? I'll add it to the OP Sunday when I can!
 
Oct 25, 2017
560
#16
Still love my LG E7. Only problem I have is that sometimes, when the Xbox One X is connected, it loses the video signal. I have to disconnect and reconnect the xbox (either hard disconnect, or power on/off) for it to come back up.
Not sure which device is the problem, though...

Yay new thread!
 
Oct 27, 2017
217
#17
Hey guys, I'm thinking of adding bias lighting to my tv setup. I have my Q7FN TV flush mounted to the wall and was wondering if it's still effective to add the bias lighting along the back of my TV cabinet (BDI Ola) instead of the back of the TV.

There is probably a 16 inch gap between the bottom of the tv and the top of the tv cabinet. I will likely use a Philip's hue lightstrip.
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,188
#18
Still love my LG E7. Only problem I have is that sometimes, when the Xbox One X is connected, it loses the video signal. I have to disconnect and reconnect the xbox (either hard disconnect, or power on/off) for it to come back up.
Not sure which device is the problem, though...

Yay new thread!
The hdmi cord very well may be the culprit.
 
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Oct 25, 2017
1,753
#21
RedlineRonin why haven't you been telling me how important Audio is to the TV viewing experience!?!? I just hooked the Denon + B6.2s up - didn't even run Audyssey - and watched Mad Max on Vudu and it was an entirely different experience. And that's just two bookshelf speakers as fronts!!!



Can you give me a quick write-up on what this is showing? I'll add it to the OP Sunday when I can!
It’s from the same article that has the HDMI 2.1 comparison image. I would just link it.

https://www.anandtech.com/show/12095/hdmi-21-specification-released
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,188
#22
Hey guys, I'm thinking of adding bias lighting to my tv setup. I have my Q7FN TV flush mounted to the wall and was wondering if it's still effective to add the bias lighting along the back of my TV cabinet (BDI Ola) instead of the back of the TV.

There is probably a 16 inch gap between the bottom of the tv and the top of the tv cabinet. I will likely use a Philip's hue lightstrip.
As long as there is more light it will help. I have a lightify strip running along the wall on the ground by mine and just an echo to turn it in set it to brightness etc.
 
Nov 2, 2017
1,606
#24
But if there was, it would be OLED

Godddddamn I love my OLED. The only people who wouldn't are those who play 14 hours straight with a HUD on screen and people who can't afford one yet. Honestly, it's glorious.

Only problem is you find yourself hating all other screens. The Switch looks crap now. The TVs at my work and that all my friends have are garbage.
 
Nov 13, 2017
306
Miami, FL
#26
We should work on a list "best stream 4k/HDR presentation"
Yeah I agree.

I was watching Lost in Space with Dolby Vision on my C8 yesterday and I'm mixed on the image quality. Some scenes after very nice indeed. But there are some dark scenes that become a mess. I noticed this in episode 3. I checked the bitrate and resolution and it wasn't my network connection causing the issue.
 
Oct 26, 2017
7,764
#27
But if there was, it would be OLED

Godddddamn I love my OLED. The only people who wouldn't are those who play 14 hours straight with a HUD on screen and people who can't afford one yet. Honestly, it's glorious.

Only problem is you find yourself hating all other screens. The Switch looks crap now. The TVs at my work and that all my friends have are garbage.
To be honest even with burn-in on my OLED I still love it. You just can't beat those blacks. I'll be going with OLED again unless Sony blow me away with the ZD9 successor.
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,188
#28
But if there was, it would be OLED

Godddddamn I love my OLED. The only people who wouldn't are those who play 14 hours straight with a HUD on screen and people who can't afford one yet. Honestly, it's glorious.

Only problem is you find yourself hating all other screens. The Switch looks crap now. The TVs at my work and that all my friends have are garbage.
I don't know they still have issues. I still am a little frustrated with the handling of motion due to sample and hold.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,160
#38
For that “Dare to Compare” graphic, plasma still holds the crown for motion resolution as its “claim to fame.”

Has anyone with a TCL ran into problems lately? Every one I’ve installed in the past month or so has done wonky stuff post-update. The only way I can fix these bugs is by pulling the plug and letting it hard reset. The most common problem seems to be receiving a strobing, glitched looking screen when attempting to launch an app. Today, I was greeted with a backlight that refused to activate. Again, a hard power cycle seems to solve these issues, but it’s highly concerning.
 
Oct 27, 2017
208
#39
Awesome new OT. Been mostly lurking in the old one for the last few months.

Still rocking my LG C6 OLED and loving it. Got a very solid panel with no complaints. No plans to upgrade anytime soon either since my significant other is a huge fan of 3D so unless that makes a comeback I'm on this one until it dies.

Right now I'm hoping MS brings DV to more than just Netflix and other streaming apps. Trolling hard with that announcement.
 
Oct 30, 2017
2,192
Minneapolis
#44
RedlineRonin why haven't you been telling me how important Audio is to the TV viewing experience!?!? I just hooked the Denon + B6.2s up - didn't even run Audyssey - and watched Mad Max on Vudu and it was an entirely different experience. And that's just two bookshelf speakers as fronts!!!
I’m like the Martin Luther of audio. Just a pious guy, goin around preaching the good word of high quality sound.

Glad you’re happy.
 
Oct 25, 2017
227
#50
My Panasonic TH-42PZ85U from 2008 is still trucking along, but how long do Plasmas typically last? I'm guessing the power supply will be the thing that kills it.