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TV Displays and Tech Thread |OT2| There Is No Perfect TV ™ (Read The OP)

Oct 26, 2017
12,249
Los Angeles, CA
I was using my Note 9 to take both pics. Didn't change any settings. I was watching that particular episode of Westworld using the HBO Now app on the Xbox One X, on both TV's.



If the sources are identical on both TV's then explain to me why it looks better on the X930e if it has nothing to do with the TV's upscaling capabilities and only has to do with the quality of the stream?
Well Sony’s upscaler is one of their claims to fame. With some claiming on the high end they make some upscale 1080p content look close to native.

Perhaps it’s not that others have trash upscalers but rather Sony’s high end x1 is really good?
 
Oct 25, 2017
9,348
NYC
And that's my issue with his comment. I know he's an OLED fanboy but at least give people accurate info, don't make stuff up.
i deleted my comment but the sentiment remains

i just want the new hdmi 2.1 tvs to drop so i can buy one and stop dealing with more toxic fanboyism i didnt know existed 3 months ago
 
Oct 27, 2017
4,776
And that's my issue with his comment. I know he's an OLED fanboy but at least give people accurate info, don't make stuff up.
I was respectful to you and explained why I made that comment and even apologized, there is no need for name calling here.

i deleted my comment but the sentiment remains

i just want the new hdmi 2.1 tvs to drop so i can buy one and stop dealing with more toxic fanboyism i didnt know existed 3 months ago
Now I'm wondering what said to me.

I'm sorry if I offended you in anyway with any of my previous comments.
 
Oct 25, 2017
9,348
NYC
I was respectful to you and explained why I made that comment and even apologized, there is no need for name calling here.



Now I'm wondering what said to me.

I'm sorry if I offended you in anyway with any of my previous comments.
nah you're good my guy (thats why i deleted my original comment), it's about general fanboyism not anything specific you said or did
 
Oct 25, 2017
546
PNW
I was respectful to you and explained why I made that comment and even apologized, there is no need for name calling here.
If calling you an "OLED fanboy" is offensive then I apologize. I guess It's just my observation reading posts from you in this thread over the past year or so. My mistake.
 
Oct 27, 2017
4,776
If calling you an "OLED fanboy" is offensive then I apologize. I guess It's just my observation reading posts from you in this thread over the past year or so. My mistake.
Just imagine if my original reply to you was to just dismiss your pics and call you an "LCD fanboy" instead of rectifying like I did, and imagine if that type of name calling was the level of discourse in this thread whenever anyone disagreed with anyone... yea it would not look good at all for the thread or anyone involved in it.

For the record, I got my C8 in August (not even a year old), but I had an X900F before that, an LCD TV that I still constantly praise in this thread. You only probably have to go back less then a page or two to see me talking positives about the X900F. Add to it that during the same period of time I've owned an OLED my most recommended TV is probably the TCL 6 followed by the Sony X900F.
 
Oct 25, 2017
546
PNW
Just imagine if my original reply to you was to just dismiss your pics and call you an "LCD fanboy" instead of rectifying like I did, and imagine if that type of name calling was the level of discourse in this thread whenever anyone disagreed with anyone... yea it would not look good at all for the thread or anyone involved in it.

For the record, I got my C8 in August (not even a year old), but I had an X900F before that, an LCD TV that I still constantly praise in this thread. You only probably have to go back less then a page or two to see me talking positives about the X900F. Add to it that during the same period of time I've owned an OLED my most recommended TV is probably the TCL 6 followed by the Sony X900F.
Your response about how the upscaling is great on the 8 series so it must also be great on the previous series, even though you've never previously owned a 7 or 6 series, came off as fanboy'ish. I'm in no way trying to say one TV tech is better than the other with my response. I was simply showing that not all OLED's have amazing upscaling capabilities. Same goes for LCD's. It all depends on the TV and the tech used to upscale anything not 4k.
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,414
Without wanting to come across as an OLED FANBOI!!!!111 I find the upscaling in general good on my B6. I would argue that the quality of the source plays more of a part than the resolution of the image. For example 1080p Blu-rays look stunning whereas low-quality 1080p streams do not look as good, especially in darker scenes. I don't think anyone would argue that Sony are not better though, whether it be in their OLED sets or their LCD, so maybe it isn't the screen technology that determines upscaling quality but the hardware underneath?
 
Oct 27, 2017
4,776
Without wanting to come across as an OLED FANBOI!!!!111 I find the upscaling in general good on my B6. I would argue that the quality of the source plays more of a part than the resolution of the image. For example 1080p Blu-rays look stunning whereas low-quality 1080p streams do not look as good, especially in darker scenes. I don't think anyone would argue that Sony are not better though, whether it be in their OLED sets or their LCD, so maybe it isn't the screen technology that determines upscaling quality but the hardware underneath?
Yea, I've heard 6 and 7 series owners (here and avsforum) say they are happy with the upscaling abilities of their sets. That is why I assumed they were similar to the 8 series and not such a massive difference as those pics showed.

That's why I find the claim that anything non 4k looks horrible on a 7 series a bit hard to believe and outlandish :)
 
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Oct 27, 2017
2,414
That's why I find the claim that anything non 4k looks horrible on a 7 series a bit hard to believe and outlandish :)
That is just plain wrong, that's why. Watch that same Westworld episode on blu-ray and it will look great, whereas watching the HBO stream will not look good, as the image posted before shows. I would contend that you would still get that banding even on your C8, although HBO have improved their stream quality of late, so the test wouldn't be scientific now anyway.
 
Oct 27, 2017
4,776
That is just plain wrong, that's why. Watch that same Westworld episode on blu-ray and it will look great, whereas watching the HBO stream will not look good, as the image posted before shows. I would contend that you would still get that banding even on your C8, although HBO have improved their stream quality of late, so the test wouldn't be scientific now anyway.
It all started with a post from Evilboris which I still agree with since it makes sense and mirrors my experience with SDR and older content on my C8.

I kinda figured this to be the case but then I got jumped on and got called a fanboy for assuming that it was the same or similar enough on the 6 and 7 series as my C8.
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,414
It all started with a post from Evilboris which I still agree with since it makes sense and mirrors my experience with SDR and older content on my C8.

I kinda figured this to be the case but then I got jumped on and got called a fanboy for assuming that it was the same or similar enough on the 6 and 7 series as my C8.
Again though, SDR can be of decent quality or poor quality. It's not always the resolution that is responsible for how good an image looks on OLED. And just throwing 'OLED' out there isn't really helpful, as a Sony OLED is going to massively outperform an LG B6 when it comes to upscaling. And yes, by all accounts, LG *have* improved upscaling with the C8 but it's not bad on the B6 or B7 at all, especially when fed decent source material. The difference with the Sony (and I'm presuming the C8 given your experience) is it can clean up poor source material - with the B6 at least, the truth is - feed it quality and it shines, feed it shit and it looks bad. There is no getting away from that, but resolution isn't the issue there.
 
Oct 25, 2017
546
PNW
Yeah I would like to test that scene on my C7, because the image looked off.
It's from Season 2, Episode 10 - "The Passenger". The scene is towards the end of the episode. I was streaming the episode using the HBO Now app on my Xbox One. I would imagine it looks fine watching the 4k Blu-ray as someone mentioned above. Obviously you're not going to have issues watching native 4k content.

All I'm saying is every TV model out there handles upscaling differently, some better than others. Just because you buy an OLED doesn't automatically guarantee you're going to get superior upscaling. I've said my piece and I'm done. Don't want to be saying anything negative about OLED because apparently there are some owners here who can't handle anything negative being said about their precious tech.
 
Nov 2, 2017
2,972
So you can confirm the upscaling is good on the C7 even though you don't have one or never used one? Interesting.

I know for a fact LG improved upscaling on the 8 series OLED's so I don't doubt it's good but to say upscaling is good on ALL OLED's is outlandish . It all depends on the TV's model and capabilities.

Here's a comparison shot I took when I had my C7, between it and the Sony X930E which has superior upscaling capabilities:

LG C7
https://i.imgur.com/kkzsNe8.jpg

Sony X930e
https://i.imgur.com/s6nzFKD.jpg

Both TV's were using identical sources. Vincent from HDTVtest did a comparison video on this showing the improvements in upscaling between the 7 and 8 series.
I have a C6 and an HD sky box (1080i). And I have never seen anything like that. Even on SD channels. In 2 years of viewing. Something is wrong there. No way should you see that amount of posterisation if the TV has been correctly calibrated and isn't faulty.

Also from that single screenshot it looks to me like you're seeing a lot of black crush on the OLED - which again should not be happening in that scene.

Also I'd say that few or more likely none of the issues present in the image have anything to do with upscaling. They all look like problems with brightness and colour gradients. Which could either be a settings issue or a fault.

What RGB settings are you using on your Xbox?
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,414
It's from Season 2, Episode 10 - "The Passenger". The scene is towards the end of the episode. I was streaming the episode using the HBO Now app on my Xbox One. I would imagine it looks fine watching the 4k Blu-ray as someone mentioned above. Obviously you're not going to have issues watching native 4k content.

All I'm saying is every TV model out there handles upscaling differently, some better than others. Just because you buy an OLED doesn't automatically guarantee you're going to get superior upscaling. I've said my piece and I'm done. Don't want to be saying anything negative about OLED because apparently there are some owners here who can't handle anything negative being said about their precious tech.
There is no need to be so dramatic, you have sparked an interesting debate. As said, on my B6 the image you posted of Westworld is *exactly* as it looks here, but I own the BD set and the issue isn't there. This proves that resolution isn't the issue so much as how horribly compressed HBO streams were. Both 1080p yet blu-rays look fine because they have plenty of bitrate thrown their way. The B6 and B7 did not play well with poor source material. There is no denying that, but resolution isn't really the issue.
 
Oct 27, 2017
4,776
I was planning on using HBO Now to watch the upcoming season of GoT... maybe I should try it first and see how it looks to avoid any surprises like that lol.

HBO Go looked fine to me a few months ago so hopefully HBO Now is the same.
 
Oct 26, 2017
12,249
Los Angeles, CA
Are we even talking specifically about upscaling at this point? I missed the two images the first time I responded but the difference could be how the Sony is applying additional picture processing. Like the feature that helps eliminate color banding. Also stuff like noise reduction settings can actually help on poorer quality/lower bit rate sources.

Perhaps they are better now but game of thrones streams were annoyingly bad and pixelated. Even when hitting their highest quality.
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,414
I was planning on using HBO Now to watch the upcoming season of GoT... maybe I should try it first and see how it looks to avoid any surprises like that lol.

HBO Go looked fine to me a few months ago so hopefully HBO Now is the same.
HBO have recently improved the quality of their streams. I am watching True Detective on Go and it is fine, even on my B6. HBO Now and Go use identical streams.
 
Oct 25, 2017
9,348
NYC
streaming services in general need to get better - i get 900 up/down and it seems crazy not to use all that bandwitdh if customers have it

It all started with a post from Evilboris which I still agree with since it makes sense and mirrors my experience with SDR and older content on my C8.

I kinda figured this to be the case but then I got jumped on and got called a fanboy for assuming that it was the same or similar enough on the 6 and 7 series as my C8.
yeah that was unfair, sorry about that
 
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nDesh

The Three Eyed Raven
Member
Oct 27, 2017
653
I have a B8 and a Samsung MU8500, both 55”, the OLED completely destroys the Samsung in 4K HDR content, but 1080p looks better in the Samsung IMO.
 
OP
OP
Bumrush
Oct 25, 2017
5,349
the C9 is supposed to be even better with upscaling and motion judder - i'm looking forward to reviews
Despite not getting one I hope the C9 blows the C8 out of the water in upscaling. I hope manufacturers of top end sets continue to focus on sub-native because as we move to 8K (in 2020 or 2021 at the latest) EVERYTHING will be sub-native

I have a B8 and a Samsung MU8500, both 55”, the OLED completely destroys the Samsung in 4K HDR content, but 1080p looks better in the Samsung IMO.
Yeah the B8 has the older processor, which is *the* reason I went with the C8 instead. Otherwise the panels are (mostly) identical.
 
Oct 27, 2017
4,776
I have a B8 and a Samsung MU8500, both 55”, the OLED completely destroys the Samsung in 4K HDR content, but 1080p looks better in the Samsung IMO.
I guess that makes sense since the B8 is using a slightly updated version of the 7 series processor.

It does make me happy to know that the C8 got a big benefit from the new processor as upscaling is a key feature of mine (as you, and the world, knows).
Yea I'm actually really glad now that I went with a C8. I do watch a lot of content from not so perfect sources like cable/network channel streaming apps.
 

nDesh

The Three Eyed Raven
Member
Oct 27, 2017
653
I guess that makes sense since the B8 is using a slightly updated version of the 7 series processor.



Yea I'm actually really glad now that I went with a C8. I do watch a lot of content from not so perfect sources like cable/network channel streaming apps.
I mean, it looks great in the B8, but the Samsung does magic with 1080p/1080i.

I won't sacrifice my beautiful perfect blacks for a little less softer image tho
 
Jun 13, 2018
82
Apart from a few more visible wrinkles on the Sony set, the upscaling looks comparable on both sets.

The real winner here is the smooth gradation feature (probably my most favourite feature of the entire set) on the Sony set that eliminated most of the colour banding due to low quality source.

If I recall correctly, LG stated at CES19 that they will be introducing the smooth gradation feature on the 9 series OLED tvs.
 
Nov 1, 2017
78
France
Hello guys.

My Samsung 49KS8000 (7000 here in France), from late 2016, have shown signs of light bleed here and there (along the bottom edge, with some "points of light" visible on bright colors) for less than a year.

Since I have a 5 years warranty I decided to call yesterday to have it repaired, and they told me that if I want, my warranty allow me to get all my money back to buy a new set, I just have to (obviously) return the TV.

So here I am, with 1200€ to invest into a new TV, and I'm torn between a 55' LG B8, C8, or a Samsung Q9N. All have both pros and cons.

I'd love to go with Oled, but the Samsung One Connect is a lifesaver, having my current set wallmount, plus it has VRR. On the other hand, Oled viewing angle is also great to have as my living room is quite large.

It would serve at 30% PS4 pro, Xbox One X, and Switch, and 70% watching movies and TV Show with an Apple TV 4k.

I also read here and there that motion is terrible on 30 fps games with LG Oled, forcing to use motion compensation and thus quitting game mode. Is this a real dealbraker ? I don't play online or competitive games but I also like hard platform games like Celeste B-C Sides.

Any thought ?

Thanks to everyone who will help me :)
 
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Oct 26, 2017
22
I went from a KS8000 (KS799 here in Spain too :P) to a LG C8 almost two months ago after reading, asking and watching tons of reviews. I didn't know if I should go to a FALD TV like the Q9FN or if I should go to the OLED, but nowadays I know I chose the right path.

The image quality is sooo better thanks to the perfect black that you can't believe it until you're in front of your new TV. Besides, one thing I really didn't like (and annoyed me every single day) about my KS8000/7000 were the view angles since my linving room is also as yours: quite large. With the OLED sets you will completely forget about that issue.

Hello guys.

My Samsung 49KS8000 (7000 here in France), from late 2016, have shown signs of light bleed here and there (along the bottom edge, with some "points of light" visible on bright colors) for less than a year.

Since I have a 5 years warranty I decided to call yesterday to have it repaired, and they told me that if I want, my warranty allow me to get all my money back to buy a new set, I just have to (obviously) return the TV.

So here I am, with 1200€ to invest into a new TV, and I'm torn between a 55' LG B8, C8, or a Samsung Q9N. All have both pros and cons.

I'd love to go with Oled, but the Samsung One Connect is a lifesaver, having my current set wallmount, plus it has VRR. On the other hand, Oled viewing angle is also great to have as my living room is quite large.

It would serve at 30% PS4 pro, Xbox One X, and Switch, and 70% watching movies and TV Show with an Apple TV 4k.

I also read here and there that motion is terrible on 30 fps games with LG Oled, forcing to use motion compensation and thus quitting game mode. Is this a real dealbraker ? I don't play online or competitive games but I also like hard platform games like Celeste B-C Sides.

Any thought ?

Thanks to everyone who will help me :)
 
Nov 3, 2017
442
I really pay attention to upscaling as that's like one of my top 3 needs in a TV. I had a 6 series OLED and it did great with 1080p and up, regular cable 720p/1080i can be hit or miss but was definitely not as good as some others upscaling abilities (Samsung, Sony).

I have 8 series right now and can tell you that the jump from 6 to 8 series in terms of upscaling sub-1080p content is noticeable. Still not as good as Sony's upscaling but it's better than it was.

I'm hoping the 9 series gets on par with Sony.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,448
Upscaling seems important as the majority of content isn’t 4k yet. Hell broadcast tv is still 720p in places. It’s one of the reasons I’m still looking at the Sony.
 
Oct 27, 2017
28
OH, USA
Thinking about grabbing the P Quantum for Costco while they are still on sale... are they really that good like the reviews say? I can't get over being nervous about OLEDs and burn in (it will primarily be used for gaming).
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,448
I can't get over being nervous about OLEDs and burn in (it will primarily be used for gaming).
I’m the same way. Yeah I bet I would be blown away by oled but I game a lot and use it as a pc monitor (along with movies/tv/sports/YouTube/Giant Bomb) so I’m worst case scenario for burn in and will always be nervous. I was suggested a Sony 900F instead earlier in the thread. Still undecided to be honest as the oled quality is hard to pass up I guess in my mind.
 
Oct 26, 2017
2,104
Personally I think the upscaling abilities of these top end sets, from the past couple of years is WAY over critiqued, I mean the B7 does an amazing job with any resolution, and PQ is extremely close to any flagship TV I've had, any differences are going to be very minimal, and I bet side by side with a C8 would be really close.
 
Oct 27, 2017
4,478
This might sound really fucking stupid, but has anyone upgraded from a 55'' to a 65'' or larger and found it at times to be too large at the same viewing distance? I had been wanting to upgrade to a 65'' for a while now, thinking that it would be perfect, and because my B6 randomly died recently, I had my chance to test out having that size for a while. For letterboxed movies, I think it's perfect. I thought the 55'' was perfect for games and full screen shows, but that I could use a larger screen for most blu-rays.

I've had it over a week, and I'm still not used to the size, and I'm not sure if when I actually buy my next TV which size to go for. I used to believe bigger is always better, but I'm not sure I actually like part of the image being out of the area of my FOV acuity. I'm sitting approximately six feet away, and while it really gives me more of a "theater screen" type of sensation, I'm honestly not sure I like it.

My gaming use on it is, random. I also play on a PC monitor and 42'' plasma for some things. I mainly watch a lot of serials and movies, and I might shift into watching more UHDs in the near future. No idea what to do, especially when ten inches is about a thousand more dollars.

Personally I think the upscaling abilities of these top end sets, from the past couple of years is WAY over critiqued, I mean the B7 does an amazing job with any resolution, and PQ is extremely close to any flagship TV I've had, any differences are going to be very minimal, and I bet side by side with a C8 would be really close.
I haven't been able to see what the C7/C8 looks like in that regard with their better processors, but on both the B6 and E6, the upscaling is simply OK. I don't really know what other TVs are considered great aside from Sony in the past, but I watch a lot of movies through PC, and the PC blows away the 2016 models for upscaling 1080p content. Especially with noise.
 
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Oct 27, 2017
2,414
Personally I think the upscaling abilities of these top end sets, from the past couple of years is WAY over critiqued, I mean the B7 does an amazing job with any resolution, and PQ is extremely close to any flagship TV I've had, any differences are going to be very minimal, and I bet side by side with a C8 would be really close.
I agree. As I've stated 3 times today, resolution isn't that important with the older OLEDs, the quality of the source material is. 1080p blu-rays look exceptional. 1080p streams, never as good. The upscaling is the same for both.
 
Oct 26, 2017
2,104
This might sound really fucking stupid, but has anyone upgraded from a 55'' to a 65'' or larger and found it at times to be too large at the same viewing distance? I had been wanting to upgrade to a 65'' for a while now, thinking that it would be perfect, and because my B6 randomly died recently, I had my chance to test out having that size for a while. For letterboxed movies, I think it's perfect. I thought the 55'' was perfect for games and full screen shows, but that I could use a larger screen for most blu-rays.

I've had it over a week, and I'm still not used to the size, and I'm not sure if when I actually buy my next TV which size to go for. I used to believe bigger is always better, but I'm not sure I actually like part of the image being out of the area of my FOV acuity. I'm sitting approximately six feet away, and while it really gives me more of a "theater screen" type of sensation, I'm honestly not sure I like it.

My gaming use on it is, random. I also play on a PC monitor and 42'' plasma for some things. I mainly watch a lot of serials and movies, and I might shift into watching more UHDs in the near future. No idea what to do, especially when ten inches is about a thousand more dollars.



I haven't been able to see what the C7/C8 looks like in that regard with their better processors, but on both the B6 and E6, the upscaling is simply OK. I don't really know what other TVs are considered great aside from Sony in the past, but I watch a lot of movies through PC, and the PC blows away the 2016 models for upscaling 1080p content. Especially with noise.
Panasonic TV's are great, and the B7 is so close that I couldnt tell the difference, had them side by side for a day, before I sold it, don't get me wrong there are differences generally, but top end TV's do an amazing job on the whole.

I agree. As I've stated 3 times today, resolution isn't that important with the older OLEDs, the quality of the source material is. 1080p blu-rays look exceptional. 1080p streams, never as good. The upscaling is the same for both.
I've been setting up OSSC's for a couple of friends recently, and it's a great device to quickly change resolutions from 240p to 1200p, and really see the upscaling engines kicking in, from 720p onwards on a mid range Sony and a B7, it's quite amazing how sharp 720p does look when mapped to 4K, really not far from 1200p at all.
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,604
PA - US
Now that Samsung's 2019 QLED lineup is out in the open, I think I've finally decided on a TV goal! The Q90 isn't perfect, but it looks like it'll fit more of my needs than the LG C9 would. Can't wait to finally upgrade!
 

AtomicShroom

Tools & Automation
Verified
Oct 28, 2017
1,127
Yep yep! Sorry, I assumed it was already posted in here. The full lineup was announced yesterday.

Link
Thanks! Maybe it had but keeping up with this thread is a bit of a mess! And whoa. Q90 looks a bit out of the price range I'm willing to pay for an LCD, so I'll be on the lookout for sales later on. Will have to settle for a Q90 or Q70 depending on sale prices. I'm so glad to see that their QLED models are also supporting the FreeSync/VRR techs they had only announced for the OLEDs thus far. This will be good enough to hold me over until MicroLED becomes desirable.
 
Oct 25, 2017
9,348
NYC
Oct 26, 2017
1,617
Are we even talking specifically about upscaling at this point? I missed the two images the first time I responded but the difference could be how the Sony is applying additional picture processing. Like the feature that helps eliminate color banding. Also stuff like noise reduction settings can actually help on poorer quality/lower bit rate sources.

Perhaps they are better now but game of thrones streams were annoyingly bad and pixelated. Even when hitting their highest quality.
Yeah, it's not about upscaling but about post-processing for reduction of noise/compression artifacts. A great source will look great on OLED, no matter the resolution. A bad source can be cleaned up better by some Sony TVs that are out there atm. This years LG OLEDs have been announced to come with similar features.