TV Displays and Tech Thread |OT2| There Is No Perfect TV ™ (Read The OP)

Sanctuary

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,657
Somebody on AVS contacted LG support about the missing BFI features and was told it will be added back in a future firmware update. This was supposedly relayed from an engineer to the support staff. The AVS member was also told that an engineer from LG will contact him with more information. I don’t know how accurate this info is or if the plans will change again, but it’s a small sliver of hope that the BFI modes might return.
This is the opposite of what a different LG engineer or whoever was actually in the know about the hardware aspects said when asked if a future firmware would be able to add it back in. They flat out said no, because it's a hardware level problem.

edit: Looks like it might be specific to 120hz. Which was one of the selling points in the promo materials. The BFI was supposed to operate at 100/120hz vs last year's 50/60HZ and have a reduction in perceived flicker and changes in brightness. So the three level functionality might actually be added back in later through firmware, but it was pulled because of this other problem, so they seem to be linked for now.
 
Last edited:

Ōkami Haundo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,664
PA - US
Hi there folks! I have a quick question for LG B8/C8 owners. I think I'm set on OLED, but I was hoping for some first-hand knowledge about the ABL. How bad is it, and where have you seen it kick in? Trying to determine if I want to save cash on the 8 series or just go with the 9 series later this year.
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,734
Saw a q90r in Best Buy today. Super piece of tech. Best lcd I have ever seen. Side view really no loss of color. Picture seemed pretty nice and bright and dark scenes looked good. But I think the oled are still top of class in controlled environment. I think we are to a point where ambient light control determines which tv to get now when talking about pq.
 

reKon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,726
So I was able to return my Samsung KS8000 under warranty for $1,500 in store credit at Costco.

I was set on the Vizio Quantum P, but because Vizio doesn't know how put proper considering into their stand designs, it's too wide for mine. I'm not going to get a new media stand for this TV.

I realized that Costco actually did mark down the LG C9 to below $2,000 at the end of February: https://slickdeals.net/f/12878854-lg-65-class-64-5-diag-4k-ultra-hd-oled-tv-1-929-99-oled65c8?src=SiteSearchV2_SearchBarV2Algo1

Thoughts on waiting a couple of weeks to see if they discount the C8? I'm not sure what Costco would normally do. I know that stores don't always do the big discounts immediately.
 

rou021

Member
Oct 27, 2017
86
I post over there and saw that particular post, but I'll take anything coming from first line customer service reps with a huge grain of salt even if they say they have word from an engineer.
This is the opposite of what a different LG engineer or whoever was actually in the know about the hardware aspects said when asked if a future firmware would be able to add it back in. They flat out said no, because it's a hardware level problem.

edit: Looks like it might be specific to 120hz. Which was one of the selling points in the promo materials. The BFI was supposed to operate at 100/120hz vs last year's 50/60HZ and have a reduction in perceived flicker and changes in brightness. So the three level functionality might actually be added back in later through firmware, but it was pulled because of this other problem, so they seem to be linked for now.
I'm skeptical it'll be added back as well, but we can hope.
Hi there folks! I have a quick question for LG B8/C8 owners. I think I'm set on OLED, but I was hoping for some first-hand knowledge about the ABL. How bad is it, and where have you seen it kick in? Trying to determine if I want to save cash on the 8 series or just go with the 9 series later this year.
How well the ABL performs depends on a couple of factors. On the 2018 LGs, ABL doesn't kick in until ~150nits on a full field white image. SDR is mastered to, and generally intended to be viewed at a peak brightness or luminance of 100nits (+/- 20nits) in a light controlled room. By light controlled room, I mean a room in which the display isn't being viewed with a lot of ambient sunlight or can at least use curtains or blinds to mitigate it. In those parameters, 150nits should be plenty bright. Keep in mind though that most real world content doesn't feature scenes equivalent to a full field white pattern that often, so the ABL isn't likely kick in as much as you might think. The higher the percentage of the screen features bright content, the harder the ABL works. So for example, if you are watching a night scene in a movie, the moon and stars should be as bright as you've set the TV's peak luminance or the "OLED Light" on the LG (SDR peak luminance can be up to 345nits with OLED Light at 100). If the movie then cuts to a day time scene on a snowy mountain, then the ABL will kick in preventing anything on screen from being brighter than 150nits. You should also know that the higher you have peak luminance set for SDR, the higher your risk is for burn in. Granted the risk isn't that high for normal usage anyway, but a higher setting will still increase it.

ABL affects HDR content in a slightly different manner. With SDR, how bright a scene is (or objects in a scene) change relative to how high the peak luminance is adjusted on the TV. HDR is different because luminance is absolute, so you can't (or at least shouldn't) be able to change the peak luminance and thus the overall brightness of the image. Further, full field white is not supposed to be higher than 100nits; it's only the highlights or certain small object that are supposed to get higher than that. As such, ABL can sometime be less of an issue for HDR. There's a reason that OLED TVs still win HDR shootouts against LCDs.

Fortunately, when the ABL engages, it isn't usually noticeable most of the time. There was, however, a bug on the 2018 LG's awhile back that caused a slight delay before the ABL activated. When it went from one scene where the ABL was off to one where it was on, the screen would slowly dim after the scene change. With how ABL works on most displays, you shouldn't be able to see it dim like that as it's supposed to be instantaneous (and thus mostly imperceptible). This has since been fixed with a firmware update and it functions as normal.

From my own experience, modern OLEDs are virtual light cannons compared to my Panasonic plasma. The ABL was far more aggressive on it where full field white maxed out at ~35nits. Even still, it wasn't too bad with real content. Since peak brightness topped out around 150nits (IIRC), it could still get plenty bright for most content and didn't bother me most of the time. It was only in comparing it to Samsung's last plasma (which activated ABL at ~80nits full field) that I realized how dim the Panasonic could be. The ABL on the 2018 LGs (the 2019 models aren't any different to my knowledge) really isn't that much of an issue under normal viewing conditions, but you situation may be different. I'd suggest checking them out in person if you can to help give you a better idea of what it's like.
 

RedlineRonin

Member
Oct 30, 2017
2,372
Minneapolis
Another year, another season of shitty GoT streaming encodes.

Was really hoping this season was going to be better. I mean the bar is so low. No 4K or HDR, fine. But at least get the goddamn color space right ffs.
 
OP
OP
Bumrush

Bumrush

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,467
Another year, another season of shitty GoT streaming encodes.

Was really hoping this season was going to be better. I mean the bar is so low. No 4K or HDR, fine. But at least get the goddamn color space right ffs.
I actually felt like it looked SOOOO much better than usual, but this is my first thrones season on the C8. Still not great, but miles better than I'm used to.

With that said, any scenes in the tombs at Winterfell are an absolute eyesore and HBO should be ashamed of themselves
 

JB1981

Member
Oct 28, 2017
7,450
Another year, another season of shitty GoT streaming encodes.

Was really hoping this season was going to be better. I mean the bar is so low. No 4K or HDR, fine. But at least get the goddamn color space right ffs.
I posted in the OT how bad the show looked. What was up with the lighting/cinematography? Looked like shit compared to past seasons. You’re saying it was a colorspace issue ?
 

Teiresias

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,995
I mean, the episode was an absolute bore, so I think it looking like shit on streaming or cable broadcast is pretty secondary, lol!!
 

Sanctuary

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,657
I actually felt like it looked SOOOO much better than usual, but this is my first thrones season on the C8. Still not great, but miles better than I'm used to.

With that said, any scenes in the tombs at Winterfell are an absolute eyesore and HBO should be ashamed of themselves
Sure, but it's not strictly a streaming problem. I just rewatched ripped mkvs of my boxed set, and some of the scenes on a few episodes were really fucking bad on these TVs due to the near black issues. Like one where they had either Jon or some other Nightwatch person in all black in a dark room and their clothing turned almost pixellated blue at times. This was on an E6, and using madVR to get better upscaling than what you would normally from just a blu-ray player or the TV itself.

Maybe you're talking about macroblocking, which is noticeably worse while streaming, but these OLEDS still have near black issues regardless of the content. It's been said each year too that they improved in that area somewhat, but I'm really skeptical that it has been fixed enough to matter in scenes like that. My C8 should be here tomorrow, so if it's a keeper, I'll know then I guess how the near blacks look.

Isnt GoT only made at 1080p anyway? Like the 4k BR of season 1 is not a huge improvement.
The 4K version of the first season is a pretty large leap over the normal blu-rays (aside from some of the effects), but the resolution isn't the primary reason behind that. Most "4K" movies are upscaled 1080p content anyway if they weren't rescans of the actual film negatives.
 
Last edited:

Branson

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,532
Sure, but it's not strictly a streaming problem. I just rewatched ripped mkvs of my boxed set, and some of the scenes on a few episodes were really fucking bad on these TVs due to the near black issues. Like one where they had either Jon or some other Nightwatch person in all black in a dark room and their clothing turned almost pixellated blue at times. This was on an E6, and using madVR to get better upscaling than what you would normally from just a blu-ray player or the TV itself.

Maybe you're talking about macroblocking, which is noticeably worse while streaming, but these OLEDS still have near black issues regardless of the content. It's been said each year too that they improved in that area somewhat, but I'm really skeptical that it has been fixed enough to matter in scenes like that. My C8 should be here tomorrow, so if it's a keeper, I'll know then I guess how the near blacks look.



The 4K version of the first season is a pretty large leap over the normal blu-rays (aside from some of the effects), but the resolution isn't the primary reason behind that. Most "4K" movies are upscaled 1080p content anyway if they weren't rescans of the actual film negatives.
Oh really? That’s good. I know about the scan thing, like some movies now are still made and scanned at 2k and upscaled, but I thought the big upgrade was hdr and color of the show. Everything is different so I must have just read some weird impressions or something.
 

LeoMessi

Member
Feb 26, 2019
375
Anyone here has clouding on his 4k tv? Will it get worse over the time?
Does the warranty Cover that issue?
 

Coastel

Member
Oct 30, 2017
241
My b8 is due in a few hours are there any recommended settings for games. Is there any sort of break in period for it or am I good to go right to hdr gaming with tone mapping on?
 

2Bee

or not 2B
Moderator
Oct 27, 2017
5,279
Watched GoT on the X900F and the stream looked horrible for me too.

Might just be HBO Now being a giant pile of garbage service.
 
OP
OP
Bumrush

Bumrush

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,467
Sure, but it's not strictly a streaming problem. I just rewatched ripped mkvs of my boxed set, and some of the scenes on a few episodes were really fucking bad on these TVs due to the near black issues. Like one where they had either Jon or some other Nightwatch person in all black in a dark room and their clothing turned almost pixellated blue at times. This was on an E6, and using madVR to get better upscaling than what you would normally from just a blu-ray player or the TV itself.

Maybe you're talking about macroblocking, which is noticeably worse while streaming, but these OLEDS still have near black issues regardless of the content. It's been said each year too that they improved in that area somewhat, but I'm really skeptical that it has been fixed enough to matter in scenes like that. My C8 should be here tomorrow, so if it's a keeper, I'll know then I guess how the near blacks look.
.
I think it's more the lighting of those scenes. For some reason, any time they are in a dimly lit space with flickering lights, it looks awful regardless of set. I've now watched Thrones on three different TVs in my house (1080P Samsung LED, Panasonic Plasma and the C8) and every time it feels like the stream quality goes to shit during these scenes.
 

Coastel

Member
Oct 30, 2017
241
So my b8 has arrived I have the one with the crescent shape. Anyone else have this and find it's wobbly if touched just a bit. Made me a bit paranoid.
 

Fairxchange

Member
Oct 30, 2017
535
Watched GoT on the X900F and the stream looked horrible for me too.

Might just be HBO Now being a giant pile of garbage service.
Don't watch it live on Crave. Go into the show search about 5 mins after 9pm and open the episode there. Looked quite good at 1080p.

Edit: Sorry, this applies only to Canadians! Lol.
 

Ōkami Haundo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,664
PA - US
I'm skeptical it'll be added back as well, but we can hope.

How well the ABL performs depends on a couple of factors. On the 2018 LGs, ABL doesn't kick in until ~150nits on a full field white image. SDR is mastered to, and generally intended to be viewed at a peak brightness or luminance of 100nits (+/- 20nits) in a light controlled room. By light controlled room, I mean a room in which the display isn't being viewed with a lot of ambient sunlight or can at least use curtains or blinds to mitigate it. In those parameters, 150nits should be plenty bright. Keep in mind though that most real world content doesn't feature scenes equivalent to a full field white pattern that often, so the ABL isn't likely kick in as much as you might think. The higher the percentage of the screen features bright content, the harder the ABL works. So for example, if you are watching a night scene in a movie, the moon and stars should be as bright as you've set the TV's peak luminance or the "OLED Light" on the LG (SDR peak luminance can be up to 345nits with OLED Light at 100). If the movie then cuts to a day time scene on a snowy mountain, then the ABL will kick in preventing anything on screen from being brighter than 150nits. You should also know that the higher you have peak luminance set for SDR, the higher your risk is for burn in. Granted the risk isn't that high for normal usage anyway, but a higher setting will still increase it.

ABL affects HDR content in a slightly different manner. With SDR, how bright a scene is (or objects in a scene) change relative to how high the peak luminance is adjusted on the TV. HDR is different because luminance is absolute, so you can't (or at least shouldn't) be able to change the peak luminance and thus the overall brightness of the image. Further, full field white is not supposed to be higher than 100nits; it's only the highlights or certain small object that are supposed to get higher than that. As such, ABL can sometime be less of an issue for HDR. There's a reason that OLED TVs still win HDR shootouts against LCDs.

Fortunately, when the ABL engages, it isn't usually noticeable most of the time. There was, however, a bug on the 2018 LG's awhile back that caused a slight delay before the ABL activated. When it went from one scene where the ABL was off to one where it was on, the screen would slowly dim after the scene change. With how ABL works on most displays, you shouldn't be able to see it dim like that as it's supposed to be instantaneous (and thus mostly imperceptible). This has since been fixed with a firmware update and it functions as normal.

From my own experience, modern OLEDs are virtual light cannons compared to my Panasonic plasma. The ABL was far more aggressive on it where full field white maxed out at ~35nits. Even still, it wasn't too bad with real content. Since peak brightness topped out around 150nits (IIRC), it could still get plenty bright for most content and didn't bother me most of the time. It was only in comparing it to Samsung's last plasma (which activated ABL at ~80nits full field) that I realized how dim the Panasonic could be. The ABL on the 2018 LGs (the 2019 models aren't any different to my knowledge) really isn't that much of an issue under normal viewing conditions, but you situation may be different. I'd suggest checking them out in person if you can to help give you a better idea of what it's like.
Oh wow! I thank you for the very informative post! It seems like I may not be affected by this much then. Especially after comparing the peak brightness on my current TV. The only variable left will be checking out the space in my new house once I move in. I need to really scope out what the lighting is like during the times of day I'll be using my TV.

Thanks once again!
 

RiZ IV

Member
Oct 27, 2017
92
So this might have already been answered somewhere in this massive thread, but how do PS3/360 era games look on the LG OLED 8 series tvs? As in, do they look ok or should I not be expecting sub 1080p games (which is most games on 360/ps3) to look good on here?
 

Branson

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,532
So this might have already been answered somewhere in this massive thread, but how do PS3/360 era games look on the LG OLED 8 series tvs? As in, do they look ok or should I not be expecting sub 1080p games (which is most games on 360/ps3) to look good on here?
I would assume pretty bad. Even Switch games look pretty ass on a 4Ktv.
 

2Bee

or not 2B
Moderator
Oct 27, 2017
5,279
Most of the switch games I've played on the C8 look great to me.

I can't say about PS3/XB360 tho, I imagine those don't hold up well.
 

EvilBoris

Member
Oct 29, 2017
5,424
Most of those low res games didn’t hold up on a 1080p plasma, can’t imagine it’ll be any different at 4k
 

Branson

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,532
Maybe I need to check my settings then lol. I want my switch games to look good it should look fine I have a Sony :( and they are good at upscales :(
 

woo

Member
Nov 11, 2017
689
Have you had a look at rtings recommended settings for your set? You could use them as a starting point to tweak them to your satisfaction.
 

Branson

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,532
Have you had a look at rtings recommended settings for your set? You could use them as a starting point to tweak them to your satisfaction.
I tweaked them a bit. Looks a bit better. I wouldnt say it looks great or anything but its fine for a 1080p upscale. I hadn't messed with the settings as much with that input as I had the others.
 

Kaga

Member
Nov 3, 2017
29
DeKalb, IL
Came home from a business trip last night to my new B8 sitting in a box waiting for me (Greentoe, paid 1049). Don't have everything hooked up but certainly turned it on and got the basics going. Just thrilled with the picture when it comes to 4K and various streaming stuff (Netflix/Prime and non 4K stuff like Criterion/Hulu), but had a weird issue with boring 1080p stuff, specifically cable TV stuff. Was quite happy with the clarity, but the colors were not to my liking using the rtngs recommended settings. Everything looked washed out and the whites were yellow-y. I messed with a lot of settings to finally get what I liked, and while I'm well outside the recommended calibrations (I used theirs for HDR and love 'em) for regular content, I'd rather be happy than 'technically' correct.
 

miserable

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,392
Hello everyone, I was wondering if someone can tell me what is the name of the issue with those lines on this screen :



This is a Samsung NU7122 brand new out of the box tv with a VA panel.

Thanks.
 

jon bones

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,686
NYC
Still loving my X950G - really glad I got it before GoT.

Hate Android - what a trash OS. I turned it all off, so I never have to use it, but it did reboot once out of nowhere. Not confidence inspiring.
 

2Bee

or not 2B
Moderator
Oct 27, 2017
5,279
Still loving my X950G - really glad I got it before GoT.

Hate Android - what a trash OS. I turned it all off, so I never have to use it, but it did reboot once out of nowhere. Not confidence inspiring.
My X900F rebooted randomly like that like days after I bought it and freaked me out, but I think its just that terrible Android OS.

To me the single biggest upgrade going to the C8 (even over the perfect blacks lol) is having WebOS over Android TV.

An Apple TV 4k should cover you for the most part at least.
 

jon bones

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,686
NYC
My X900F rebooted randomly like that like days after I bought it and freaked me out, but I think its just that terrible Android OS.

To me the single biggest upgrade going to the C8 (even over the perfect blacks lol) is having WebOS over Android TV.

An Apple TV 4k should cover you for the most part at least.
Yeah my Apple TV 4K is super solid
 

No Depth

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,695
Still loving my X950G - really glad I got it before GoT.

Hate Android - what a trash OS. I turned it all off, so I never have to use it, but it did reboot once out of nowhere. Not confidence inspiring.
Yea Android OS rebooted for me while using the XBX once as well. Black screen crash and then android logo. Xbox was fine tho and was still exactly where I left it when the picture returned but was weird.

I do at least find it super snappy with the included apps though.
 
Jun 10, 2018
184
Hello everyone, I was wondering if someone can tell me what is the name of the issue with those lines on this screen :



This is a Samsung NU7122 brand new out of the box tv with a VA panel.

Thanks.
Looks like a manufacturing defect. One of the layers behind the panel appears rippled. Definitely return it for another.

I don't know if it's exactly the same as what happened to my B6 OLED, but it looks identical (mine was on the left quarter of the screen though). No clue what causes it, but the repair shop said that it would require a complete panel replacement. In my case, that would have cost $1000. Paying 40% of the new cost of a less than three year old TV to get it fixed? No thanks. Someone on AVS said that they had "the same" problem with their C6 and ran an online "pixel refresher" (spam flashes red green and blue on the screen) that fixed it for him, but it did nothing for me.

I also don't know if those would actually be dead pixels either, because on an OLED at least, they should be black if they are dead (off) not solid white. I also noticed that when I tried running the refresher, it would actually fill in the stripe with color, but it would still be a slightly different intensity than the rest of the screen. The other thing is that when I manually ran a compensation cycle with the set, when the TV went black while running it, there was no line anywhere, it was all black, and when the TV reset itself to finish the cycle, it was all black until the cycle was finished. Normally dead pixels are black, but I've seen some on an LCD/LED TV though that are solid white.
I think he meant the ripples on the bottom and left side of the screen. The white line should be normal when viewing My Games & Apps on Xbox One.
 
Last edited:

miserable

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,392
Looks like a manufacturing defect. One of the layers behind the panel appears rippled. Definitely return it for another.


I think he meant the ripples on the bottom and left side of the screen. The white line should be normal when viewing My Games & Apps on Xbox One.
yes, I meant those ripples. sorry I should have specified.

thanks for the reply. I will return the tv.
 

Sanctuary

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,657
I think he meant the ripples on the bottom and left side of the screen. The white line should be normal when viewing My Games & Apps on Xbox One.
They did say "lines", and I did notice the ripples and thought it could be either. I don't personally have an Xbox One either, so I'm not familiar with anything other than the space notification and normal dashboard/settings stuff. I haven't seen the games/apps screen that looks like that either, nor when hooking up an external drive.

I guess I should have just asked which lines, like I was originally going to.

In other news, I've been up an absurd amount of time over the last 48 hours, but at least I managed to setup my C8 to check for defects. Nothing noticeable on the outside, and I did a quick check to see about a pixel issue, and it doesn't seem like there is any. I'll mess around with the typical stuff tomorrow.
 

Chamber

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,937
Geek Squad just finished installing the replacement panel for my C8. MASSIVE improvement over the original, not perfect but about as good as any panel I've seen from LG.
 
Last edited:

Sanctuary

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,657
Geek Squad just finished installing the replacement panel for my C8. MASSIVE improvement over the original, not perfect but about as good as any panel I've seen from LG.
What was wrong with yours? I feel like I actually might have gotten a good panel, or at least better than my B6 with no vignetting (which wasn't noticeable most of the time, but it was still there). The full screen white doesn't show any obvious tinting anywhere either, which I read was a somewhat common issue with the 2017 and 2018 models. The only thing I'm not sure about with this TV in general is the SDR peak brightness. I've checked all the settings, but for some reason, it just looks relatively flat or muted compared to the B6 and E6.

The color also looks a lot less saturated in the same modes with similar settings as the other TVs. I was looking at the "loot train" fight of Game of Thrones where it's an overcast sky that's really contrasty normally with highlights on the armor. It looked extremely dull, and I decided to change the input icon to PC, not realizing that it actually changes the picture mode as well as soon as you do that. As soon as I did that, everything popped again, but then when I checked the mode, it was on APS (????), but with Wide gamut instead of Auto (Normal). Wide shouldn't be the default for SDR, but it looks closer to my previous sets that had Normal gamut. Could be a calibration issue too. The E6 was professionally calibrated and this has only had the basic adjustments.