TV Displays and Tech Thread |OT2| There Is No Perfect TV ™ (Read The OP)

PlayerOne

Member
Apr 16, 2018
238
I've been out of the loop on tvs for awhile, with lg 9 series coming out how do they compare to the 7 series in terms of brightness and vertical banding?
 

rou021

Member
Oct 27, 2017
77
Hopefully someone can help me out here with contrast.

On Rtings Lg c8 calibration article posted April 13th 2018 they say set contrast to 85.

On July 13th for the b8 they say set it to 90

On August 20th for their YouTube video they set it to 85.

On October 22nd for the e8 they set it to 90. And now for the c9 on May 2nd they recommend 90 again.

I’m just wondering what the correct setting is for the c8 and why they’re flip flopping so much lol.
The correct setting can be dependent on a couple of factors, but in almost all cases it should only be set to 85 for the LG OLEDs in SDR. Changing it from the default of 85 on the LG C8 (like with many other manufacturers’ TVs) will throw off the alignment of the grayscale. Even though you may not have clipping in your whites, when you go to adjust the multipoint grayscale, you will run into problems. So if you’re going to adjust the 70% settings for example, the adjustments you make will may not primarily affect 70%, but could instead affect 68% or %72 or 77% or whatever due to the contrast setting shifting the location of the adjustment point. And even if you aren’t going to touch the grayscale settings and just stick with one of the presets, then changing the contrast setting also risks making your gamma even worse. Any changes to peak luminance (the overall brightness of the set) in SDR should be made via the OLED Light control or its equivalent setting for other brands.

I don’t know why Rtings would use anything other than 85. Maybe they have their reasons or maybe it’s a typo. You could always ask them directly as they are pretty good at responding to questions. Either way, unless you’re directly copying all of their settings and their settings only to your set (though I’ve already made a post earlier in this thread about why copying settings is a bad idea), then you should just stick with 85.
 

Hasney

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
5,835
You’re gonna want to look towards Samsung for any VRR functionality, but it’s still limited to AMD GPUs and Xbox One iirc.
The LG C9 works with the XBox One as well, although it's quite clear it's a bit of a hack job right now. Hopefully the next generation consoles and GPUs have HDMI 2.1 VRR capability.

I don’t know why Rtings would use anything other than 85. Maybe they have their reasons or maybe it’s a typo. You could always ask them directly as they are pretty good at responding to questions. Either way, unless you’re directly copying all of their settings and their settings only to your set (though I’ve already made a post earlier in this thread about why copying settings is a bad idea), then you should just stick with 85
Yeah, I used their settings as my first baseline on the C9, but SDR content at 90 looked washed out to my eye.
 

Brucey

Member
Jan 2, 2018
528
The correct setting can be dependent on a couple of factors, but in almost all cases it should only be set to 85 for the LG OLEDs in SDR. Changing it from the default of 85 on the LG C8 (like with many other manufacturers’ TVs) will throw off the alignment of the grayscale. Even though you may not have clipping in your whites, when you go to adjust the multipoint grayscale, you will run into problems. So if you’re going to adjust the 70% settings for example, the adjustments you make will may not primarily affect 70%, but could instead affect 68% or %72 or 77% or whatever due to the contrast setting shifting the location of the adjustment point. And even if you aren’t going to touch the grayscale settings and just stick with one of the presets, then changing the contrast setting also risks making your gamma even worse. Any changes to peak luminance (the overall brightness of the set) in SDR should be made via the OLED Light control or its equivalent setting for other brands.

I don’t know why Rtings would use anything other than 85. Maybe they have their reasons or maybe it’s a typo. You could always ask them directly as they are pretty good at responding to questions. Either way, unless you’re directly copying all of their settings and their settings only to your set (though I’ve already made a post earlier in this thread about why copying settings is a bad idea), then you should just stick with 85.
Very informative. Thanks so much for the reply. Yeah I wanted to ask them directly, I made an account but I don’t know how to comment on their articles, do I need to be a contributor?
 

rou021

Member
Oct 27, 2017
77
Very informative. Thanks so much for the reply. Yeah I wanted to ask them directly, I made an account but I don’t know how to comment on their articles, do I need to be a contributor?
No problem. It used to be you didn't have to create an account to post a question to one of their reviews; all you had to do was provide an email address. It looks like now you have to create an account, but I don't think you have to be a contributor.
 

Brucey

Member
Jan 2, 2018
528
No problem. It used to be you didn't have to create an account to post a question to one of their reviews; all you had to do was provide an email address. It looks like now you have to create an account, but I don't think you have to be a contributor.
Edit- never mind figured it out. Thanks
 
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Kyle Cross

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,718
So, with Sharpness 0 being determined to be the proper setting for LG OLED, where does that leave us with Edge Enhancer? Edge Enhancer merely activates the Sharpness slider, with EE off the sharpness slider does nothing. So should EE be set on with sharpness on 0, or can EE just be turned off?
 

Joule

Member
Nov 19, 2017
908
What are those two settings (Peak Brightness – Paper White) actually doing? How should we proceed with those settings to calibrate our TV? Adjust Peak Brightness before Paper White, or vice versa?
I’m assuming peak brightness is to set the value around what your TV is. Most OLEDs are around 800 so that number should be at or around 800. No idea what paper white means
 

Hasney

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
5,835
I'm guessing Paper White is what brightness a piece of paper should show up as, but it seems like a silly way of doing it.
 

Gamechanger87

Member
Oct 25, 2017
380
Has anyone gotten word yet on the Game Mode fix on the C9?

With HDR on and in Game Mode (no ALLM or VRR) all games are unplayable.

What settings are fellow C9 users using on both the Xbox One X and the TV?
 

Azurik

Member
Nov 5, 2017
769
So, with Sharpness 0 being determined to be the proper setting for LG OLED, where does that leave us with Edge Enhancer? Edge Enhancer merely activates the Sharpness slider, with EE off the sharpness slider does nothing. So should EE be set on with sharpness on 0, or can EE just be turned off?
Sharpness 0 and leave all enhancers off
 

Kyle Cross

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,718
Sharpness 0 and leave all enhancers off
This is what always made sense to me. EE just turns on the artificial Sharpness slider, afterall. But RTINGs always suggested that it needs to be left to ON with the Sharpness slider set to 0 as a form of bypass. Did they just completely misunderstand what the Edge Enhancer setting was?
 

Ogami Itto

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,566
I have a vertical line on my PQ65-F1 that shows up once a while, would that be enough to get an exchange, how common is this issue with Visio? I bought it from Costco, will they try to fix it or just exchange it and do I need the box?
 

maGs

Member
Oct 27, 2017
70
Ok so I just order a LG C8 OLED and I havent bought a new TV in a long while.

Anything I need to know before it gets here? I’ve never really calibrated a TV much besides really basic stuff. Are there any settings I need to tweak?
 

FrankNitty

Member
Oct 25, 2017
290
SoCal
Ok so I just order a LG C8 OLED and I havent bought a new TV in a long while.

Anything I need to know before it gets here? I’ve never really calibrated a TV much besides really basic stuff. Are there any settings I need to tweak?
To preference and using what patterns you may have available OLED Light, Contrast, Brightness, Color, Tint, (if needed), Sharpness, Motion. That's about all you can do if you do not have equipment and software. I would suggest not copying settings, and if you do definitely not copying from a different series such as 6, 7 or 9.
 

Boomchil

Member
Nov 1, 2017
79
France
Has anyone gotten word yet on the Game Mode fix on the C9?

With HDR on and in Game Mode (no ALLM or VRR) all games are unplayable.

What settings are fellow C9 users using on both the Xbox One X and the TV?
I played several games with HDR on game mode (PS4 pro and Xbox One X) and didn’t notice any issue (coming from a KS8000 and Q90R, I’m rather sensitive to input lag).

What do you mean by « unplayable » ?
 

AtomicShroom

Tools & Automation
Verified
Oct 28, 2017
1,130
I played several games with HDR on game mode (PS4 pro and Xbox One X) and didn’t notice any issue (coming from a KS8000 and Q90R, I’m rather sensitive to input lag).

What do you mean by « unplayable » ?
Well according to Rtings, the TV goes from 13.4ms in SDR to 39.1ms in HDR. So that's essentially 3x the input lag. So yeah, I would tag that as "unplayable" too.
 

No Depth

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,485
Well according to Rtings, the TV goes from 13.4ms in SDR to 39.1ms in HDR. So that's essentially 3x the input lag. So yeah, I would tag that as "unplayable" too.
But does 39.1 hit a threshold of unplayable? I sort of feel that isn't exactly some extraordinary number or outlier. Possibly fairly common in this tech?

39.1 is meaningless without reference. Exactly what threshold is unplayable? 20? 30? 50?
 

AtomicShroom

Tools & Automation
Verified
Oct 28, 2017
1,130
But does 39.1 hit a threshold of unplayable? I sort of feel that isn't exactly some extraordinary number or outlier. Possibly fairly common in this tech?

39.1 is meaningless without reference. Exactly what threshold is unplayable? 20? 30? 50?
Unplayable is subjective, of course, but I know for a fact that I would be completely horrified by 39.1ms of input lag. Keep in mind that I've been keeping around my old 34" Sony Wega 1080i CRT HDTV around for that very reason. Input lag is the bane of my existence.

Edit: Most TVs lately seem to be hitting 10-16ms, which is what I would deem as great. Anything above 16ms can die in a fire.
 

georaldc

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,431
With my TV, moving from game mode to PC mode shifts input lag from 20.6ms to 37.1ms according to RTINGS. The only time I really feel the difference is if I immediately switch between the 2, but then I quickly adjust to the change and forget about it. I guess I'm fortunate since this doesn't seem to affect playability for me.
 

Gamechanger87

Member
Oct 25, 2017
380
I played several games with HDR on game mode (PS4 pro and Xbox One X) and didn’t notice any issue (coming from a KS8000 and Q90R, I’m rather sensitive to input lag).

What do you mean by « unplayable » ?
Massive stuttering, completely unplayable.

For anyone with an XBX and a C9, make sure that your console is set to 4k and that HDR is selected in the XBX settings. (You can have ALLM on if you want, but not VRR). Start up a game and switch the TV to game mode if it doesn't happen automatically. I get exactly what is described below.

If I switch the TV to Standard or one of the other HDR picture settings, no issue. Game Mode doesn't work at all.

See below from AVSforum which summarizes it.

Is it confirmed / normal to have to enable YCC 4:2:2? If I leave it unchecked the SDR games seem ok but anything in HDR completely freaks out the Xbox and results in a multitude of display problems (flash screens, multiple images, dashboard overlaid during gameplay etc). Just want to make sure this is "normal" behavior and not something weird going on with my actual setup.
/QUOTE]
 

DOTDASHDOT

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,119
Are any others getting Dolby Vision raised blacks AGAIN through the HDMI port on a C8? I've tried XB1X and ATV, all my films are fucked basically, TV's Netflix app is fine........can't believe this tbh, as soon as the lights go off it's like a poor LCD.
.55 firmware.
 

Boomchil

Member
Nov 1, 2017
79
France
Massive stuttering, completely unplayable.

For anyone with an XBX and a C9, make sure that your console is set to 4k and that HDR is selected in the XBX settings. (You can have ALLM on if you want, but not VRR). Start up a game and switch the TV to game mode if it doesn't happen automatically. I get exactly what is described below.

If I switch the TV to Standard or one of the other HDR picture settings, no issue. Game Mode doesn't work at all.

See below from AVSforum which summarizes it.
I’ll try it tomorrow with Forza Horizon 4.

What are your settings on the console and TV?
I didn’t really mess with settings as the Xbox One has automatically adapted its settings to the TV so I’d say they are the standard ones. What settings do you want to know ?
 

Gamechanger87

Member
Oct 25, 2017
380
I’m not sure what this means. I have zero issues with my xox and c9 playing nice. I do keep vrr off and 4:2:2 unchecked.
I can’t figure it out. Rumor is firmware issue which messes up Game Mode. Rtings review claims the same issue and says that LG is working on a fix.

I’m curious to do a settings check with someone who get FH4 or some other game working. Here is what I have set when it breaks

On Xbox
4k
VRR off
ALLM off/on
HDR on
4:2:2 off
Dolby vision on

On TV
Game mode

With those settings it’s constant flickering and won’t work. Swapping to any other picture setting on the TV works fine. Disabling HDR on the console also works fine.

I even used a USB stick to update the TV firmware to no avail.

If someone gets FH4 working with the above I want to see what I’m missing.
 

Kerotan

Member
Oct 31, 2018
1,864
FUD

Reads like it was written by that quantum apothosis clown. Every single burn in picture I've seen has been from a store/display model or people who bought said crap.
I thought so too. I felt it was a big over reaction. My news feed seems to be getting filled with these click bait BS articles lately.
 

Rogue74

Member
Nov 13, 2017
377
Miami, FL
Are any others getting Dolby Vision raised blacks AGAIN through the HDMI port on a C8? I've tried XB1X and ATV, all my films are fucked basically, TV's Netflix app is fine........can't believe this tbh, as soon as the lights go off it's like a poor LCD.
.55 firmware.
Yes. I do. And I'm constantly bitching about it here hoping to hear some good news or workaround ideas. Some users say they don't see the problem. Maybe a panel variance thing.

Here is the last post I made on the subject, regarding Rtings answering a question about the problem:
https://www.resetera.com/threads/tv-displays-and-tech-thread-ot2-there-is-no-perfect-tv-™-read-the-op.55230/page-296#post-20486206

Basically there are two workarounds that I know of. One is to lower the Brightness to 49 or 48. This fixes the black levels (at least to the naked eye), but I'm not sure if it adversely affects the picture in other ways - such as black crush. The other option is to force HDR10 through the ATV4k when watching Dolby Vision. This is a pain in the ass though. The only reason I'm still putting up with the ATV4K despite this is because of the awesome iTunes sales. I just got John Wick 1&2 for $10.

Supposedly, the Dolby Vision profile used by Sony 4K Blu Ray players fixes the issue. I know you don't do physical media. I still do, for now. I just ordered a Sony X800M2, which was just released. I should get it by Friday. I'll report back on whether it exhibits the bug or not.
 
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guitarguy316

Member
Nov 3, 2017
446
I can’t figure it out. Rumor is firmware issue which messes up Game Mode. Rtings review claims the same issue and says that LG is working on a fix.

I’m curious to do a settings check with someone who get FH4 or some other game working. Here is what I have set when it breaks

On Xbox
4k
VRR off
ALLM off/on
HDR on
4:2:2 off
Dolby vision on

On TV
Game mode

With those settings it’s constant flickering and won’t work. Swapping to any other picture setting on the TV works fine. Disabling HDR on the console also works fine.

I even used a USB stick to update the TV firmware to no avail.

If someone gets FH4 working with the above I want to see what I’m missing.
Wait a second so you have to choose between vrr or HDR?
No it’s not hdr or vrr. I’m saying vrr isn’t quite playing nice with Xbox right now, lg says Xbox needs to update their system to be compatible with lg’s variant of vrr.

The issue is input lag increased in hdr and think it’s a bug and will be fixed. The whole point of ALLM is you don’t need to set your tv to game mode, the C9 will recognize when you play a game vs. streaming or something else on the console. Again no issues here so it sounds like something with your setup or cables.
 

DOTDASHDOT

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,119
Yes. I do. And I'm constantly bitching about it here hoping to hear some good news or workaround ideas. Some users say they don't see the problem. Maybe a panel variance thing.

Here is the last post I made on the subject, regarding Rtings answering a question about the problem:
https://www.resetera.com/threads/tv-displays-and-tech-thread-ot2-there-is-no-perfect-tv-™-read-the-op.55230/page-296#post-20486206

Basically there are two workarounds that I know of. One is to lower the Brightness to 49 or 48. This fixes the black levels (at least to the naked eye), but I'm not sure if it adversely affects the picture in other ways - such as black crush. The other option is to force HDR10 through the ATV4k when watching Dolby Vision. This is a pain in the ass though. The only reason I'm still putting up with the ATV4K despite this is because of the awesome iTunes sales. I just got John Wick 1&2 for $10.

Supposedly, the Dolby Vision profile used by Sony 4K Blu Ray players fixes the issue. I know you don't do physical media. I still do, for now. I just ordered a Sony X800M2, which was just released. I should get it by Friday. I'll report back on whether it exhibits the bug or not.
Finally someone understanding, I'm completely on my own in the AVF thread, been talking to John Archer, so I'm hoping he'll talk to LG.

This needs sorting, constant bloody issues with LG OLED's!
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,645
Yes. I do. And I'm constantly bitching about it here hoping to hear some good news or workaround ideas. Some users say they don't see the problem. Maybe a panel variance thing.

Here is the last post I made on the subject, regarding Rtings answering a question about the problem:
https://www.resetera.com/threads/tv-displays-and-tech-thread-ot2-there-is-no-perfect-tv-™-read-the-op.55230/page-296#post-20486206

Basically there are two workarounds that I know of. One is to lower the Brightness to 49 or 48. This fixes the black levels (at least to the naked eye), but I'm not sure if it adversely affects the picture in other ways - such as black crush. The other option is to force HDR10 through the ATV4k when watching Dolby Vision. This is a pain in the ass though. The only reason I'm still putting up with the ATV4K despite this is because of the awesome iTunes sales. I just got John Wick 1&2 for $10.

Supposedly, the Dolby Vision profile used by Sony 4K Blu Ray players fixes the issue. I know you don't do physical media. I still do, for now. I just ordered a Sony X800M2, which was just released. I should get it by Friday. I'll report back on whether it exhibits the bug or not.
Finally someone understanding, I'm completely on my own in the AVF thread, been talking to John Archer, so I'm hoping he'll talk to LG.

This needs sorting, constant bloody issues with LG OLED's!
why dont you both go back to .15