TV Displays and Tech Thread |OT2| There Is No Perfect TV ™ (Read The OP)

Rogue74

Member
Nov 13, 2017
377
Miami, FL
Finally someone understanding, I'm completely on my own in the AVF thread, been talking to John Archer, so I'm hoping he'll talk to LG.

This needs sorting, constant bloody issues with LG OLED's!
I had a Twitter exchange with John Archer about this months ago. Supposedly he was bringing up the bug with LG engineers who were scheduled to meet with him that week. Even asked me for some movies/scenes where I see the issue. He never followed up with me after that.
I've started to lose hope that LG will fix this. I asked Rtings to give them some bad press over the issue to try to pressure them.
 

2Bee

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,830
Are any others getting Dolby Vision raised blacks AGAIN through the HDMI port on a C8? I've tried XB1X and ATV, all my films are fucked basically, TV's Netflix app is fine........can't believe this tbh, as soon as the lights go off it's like a poor LCD.
.55 firmware.
Yes. I do. And I'm constantly bitching about it here hoping to hear some good news or workaround ideas. Some users say they don't see the problem. Maybe a panel variance thing.

Here is the last post I made on the subject, regarding Rtings answering a question about the problem:
https://www.resetera.com/threads/tv-displays-and-tech-thread-ot2-there-is-no-perfect-tv-™-read-the-op.55230/page-296#post-20486206

Basically there are two workarounds that I know of. One is to lower the Brightness to 49 or 48. This fixes the black levels (at least to the naked eye), but I'm not sure if it adversely affects the picture in other ways - such as black crush. The other option is to force HDR10 through the ATV4k when watching Dolby Vision. This is a pain in the ass though. The only reason I'm still putting up with the ATV4K despite this is because of the awesome iTunes sales. I just got John Wick 1&2 for $10.

Supposedly, the Dolby Vision profile used by Sony 4K Blu Ray players fixes the issue. I know you don't do physical media. I still do, for now. I just ordered a Sony X800M2, which was just released. I should get it by Friday. I'll report back on whether it exhibits the bug or not.
Yep, can confirm it happens on mine too.

Lowering brightness to 48 gives you perfect blacks back, but of course it would be better if you didn't have to mess with brightness.

Makes sense about Sony 4k players, its why I wasn't seeing the issue initially, cause I was testing blue rays on it whenever you mentioned it.

Been using internal apps a lot more ever since I realized it.
 

Gamechanger87

Member
Oct 25, 2017
380
Been experimenting with the C9 and it’s an encoding issue it seems and is tied to the Xbox.

Game mode only works for me if I have YCC checked and fully reset the console. If I leave it on after that it’s fine. Checking it without a restart doesn’t work
 

holygeesus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,439
I had a Twitter exchange with John Archer about this months ago. Supposedly he was bringing up the bug with LG engineers who were scheduled to meet with him that week. Even asked me for some movies/scenes where I see the issue. He never followed up with me after that.
I've started to lose hope that LG will fix this. I asked Rtings to give them some bad press over the issue to try to pressure them.
LG are clueless when it comes to fixing issues with firmware, as nigh on every other page in this thread can attest to. As soon as reviews for the new Panasonics and Sonys emerge I will be jumping ship and will never look back.
 

2Bee

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,830
LG are clueless when it comes to fixing issues with firmware, as nigh on every other page in this thread can attest to. As soon as reviews for the new Panasonics and Sonys emerge I will be jumping ship and will never look back.
Yea, its almost impressive how they always seem to have some sort of issue lol.

And I don't believe some conspiracies about LG pushing people to buy the new model, because the newly released C9 has some issues or features that aren't working properly too lol.

I think this is just them being really bad at testing what their updates do.

I just hope the C8 gets that update that fixes black crush without many issues, if that one works I'll just stop updating the TV.
 

holygeesus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,439
Yea, its almost impressive how they always seem to have some sort of issue lol.

And I don't believe some conspiracies about LG pushing people to buy the new model, because the newly released C9 has some issues or features that aren't working properly too lol.

I think this is just them being really bad at testing what their updates do.

I just hope the C8 gets that update that fixes black crush without many issues, if that one works I'll just stop updating the TV.
It’s what I’ve had to do with my B6. I’m using a firmware that is years old as all the recent ones introduce black glow.

I have peddled that conspiracy theory before but you are right planned obsolescence only works if you don’t mess up the new TV you are nudging everyone towards buying!
 

impact

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,981
Tampa
LG are clueless when it comes to fixing issues with firmware, as nigh on every other page in this thread can attest to. As soon as reviews for the new Panasonics and Sonys emerge I will be jumping ship and will never look back.
That SDR game mode locked color gamut makes even less sense now with the C9.

Gamut doesn't affect input lag right? I'm struggling to find any reason other than 'we need features for our new tvs'. We need a HDTVtest video about issues for them to actually do anything about it lol
 

Kolle

Member
Oct 27, 2017
110
Finally someone understanding, I'm completely on my own in the AVF thread, been talking to John Archer, so I'm hoping he'll talk to LG.

This needs sorting, constant bloody issues with LG OLED's!
So the 8 and 9 series still have the same problem? It never went away for me regardless of all the updates that promised to fix it. Setting brightness to 49 gets rid of it it but introduces black crush. It's probably not as noticeable in a brighter environment but I watch movies in the dark.
This is Mad Max FR on my C7 from 0:54 - 1:02, should be pitch black, that's why I bought an OLED in the first place..
 

DOTDASHDOT

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,119
So the 8 and 9 series still have the same problem? It never went away for me regardless of all the updates that promised to fix it. Setting brightness to 49 gets rid of it it but introduces black crush. It's probably not as noticeable in a brighter environment but I watch movies in the dark.
This is Mad Max FR on my C7 from 0:54 - 1:02, should be pitch black, that's why I bought an OLED in the first place..
Yeah completely agree, it's a ridiculous situation honestly, feel really annoyed tbh, it's fixed on the 7, so why not on the 8?? They are absolutely useless.
 

CD_93

Member
Dec 12, 2017
233
Same on my C6. Now that I've noticed it... it's a real bummer. A cornerstone of the technology which has just been *broken* without resolution.
 

2Bee

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,830
Yea, watched some DV movies last night using the internal Vudu app and its such a huge difference compared to DV content on the apple TV 4k where I have to lower the brightness.
 

Smokey

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,687
It’s what I’ve had to do with my B6. I’m using a firmware that is years old as all the recent ones introduce black glow.

I have peddled that conspiracy theory before but you are right planned obsolescence only works if you don’t mess up the new TV you are nudging everyone towards buying!
I eventually just upgraded to the newest firmware. Is the black glow on DV physical media? I watch a lot of Netflix stuff that had DV and I haven't noticed anything jarring. I had a Samsung LED before so I know when black levels looks "off" and I can't say I've noticed anything to that effect here?
 

Smokey

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,687
It's apparently on anything external. The native apps are fine.
I've been using an Apple 4k for months now for everything. I can't say I've noticed rised blacks with DV content. Been watching Our Planet lately too. Are we talking like on a dark scene it looks greyish or is it more subtle?

Does it happen on the Sony OLED line too?
 

DOTDASHDOT

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,119
But it isn’t? :P The picture I posted is from my C7, in a completely dark room it looks gray instead of pure black. Just to be sure, is LG the only brand with this problem?
Ah I see sorry, and it was fine for me on my 7! What a ridiculous situation.

Yes! Rtings agree there is a problem and compared to an A9F, that was totally fine.
 

Rogue74

Member
Nov 13, 2017
377
Miami, FL
I've been using an Apple 4k for months now for everything. I can't say I've noticed rised blacks with DV content. Been watching Our Planet lately too. Are we talking like on a dark scene it looks greyish or is it more subtle?

Does it happen on the Sony OLED line too?
Sometimes it's hard to see. Other times it is hard to tell if it is the bug or a mastering issue/directors intent. That's why I always say to test it on widescreen films. There is no reason the letterbox bars should ever be above black. If you see that, it is definitely the bug.
Our Planet is 1.78:1 (or close to it). Since it fills the screen, it might be hard to spot. But it'll happen there too. Areas that should be totally black may be dark gray and have noise in it. It's also easier to spot in a dark room. If there is a lot of ambient light it is harder to see.
I'll tell you this though, once you know what to look for and spot it, you'll notice it all the time. You can't unsee it.
 

DOTDASHDOT

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,119
Yeah. I will do so today. We need to apply pressure.
BTW, what is the AVForum thread you are posting in?
It's here, not hard to guess who I am lol.

https://www.avforums.com/threads/lg-oled-c8-owners-and-discussion.2162797/page-363#post-27119945

I haven't been keeping up the last few pages but I have a C8. What's the issue? I'll ping John Archer as well
It's raised blacks through the HDMI port with Dolby Vision content (yup that old chestnut) worse than it ever was on my B7.
 

Reckoner

Member
Oct 26, 2017
155
Right now I'm looking into 43" models of the XG80 (640e), XF85 (700e) and XG83 (800e) to replace my current bedroom TV that I use mostly for watching tv shows, movies and playing PS4 Pro and as a PC monitor.

Do you guys think I would be satisfied with the XG80 for this use case? Is there any info if this new model is a VA panel on the 43" model?
 

Kerotan

Member
Oct 31, 2018
1,864
Right now I'm looking into 43" models of the XG80 (640e), XF85 (700e) and XG83 (800e) to replace my current bedroom TV that I use mostly for watching tv shows, movies and playing PS4 Pro and as a PC monitor.

Do you guys think I would be satisfied with the XG80 for this use case? Is there any info if this new model is a VA panel on the 43" model?
I was going to get the 43" XG80 for €650 but we ended up getting a 49" X900F for around €950. For the extra €300 the difference is massive.
 

Huntersknoll

Member
Oct 25, 2017
861
Right now I'm looking into 43" models of the XG80 (640e), XF85 (700e) and XG83 (800e) to replace my current bedroom TV that I use mostly for watching tv shows, movies and playing PS4 Pro and as a PC monitor.

Do you guys think I would be satisfied with the XG80 for this use case? Is there any info if this new model is a VA panel on the 43" model?
I was looking at those too but the 2019 Vizio M series is going in 43" and seems to be pretty promising. You might want to take a look into that as another option. https://www.vizio.com/2019-collection
 

2Bee

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,830
I haven't noticed it at all...hmmm I'll test vs the on board apps
Its very hard to notice if you're not looking for it, but just play something with cinematic black bars in a dark room and those bars will look almost LCD like. You can get close to the TV to better notice it.

Has to be Dolby Vision through HDMI, so like an Apple TV 4k playing DV content.

Apparently Sony 4k players don't have the issue tho, so I'm good with my blueray collection at least.
 

Karish

Member
Oct 25, 2017
801
I have an opportunity to get the 65" LG B8 off craigslist for $1,100. Sounds very lightly used. No brainer, right? Would be replacing my Vizio P65
 

holygeesus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,439
I've been using an Apple 4k for months now for everything. I can't say I've noticed rised blacks with DV content. Been watching Our Planet lately too. Are we talking like on a dark scene it looks greyish or is it more subtle?

Does it happen on the Sony OLED line too?
We are confusing different issues here - I am exclusively referring to the glowing black issue on the B6 only, which is across all material, internal and external apps but looks worse with HDR material.

The other issues for the 7 and 8 range are all different. We all have our own problems!
 

DOTDASHDOT

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,119
Its very hard to notice if you're not looking for it, but just play something with cinematic black bars in a dark room and those bars will look almost LCD like. You can get close to the TV to better notice it.

Has to be Dolby Vision through HDMI, so like an Apple TV 4k playing DV content.

Apparently Sony 4k players don't have the issue tho, so I'm good with my blueray collection at least.
Try The Matrix, the start with all the green code going down the screen is completely grey, and the bars just blend in, just awful! Was pure black on my B7.
 

Reckoner

Member
Oct 26, 2017
155
This may be silly on my part, but I noticed that some models of Sony tvs have A and B energy consumption ratings. The B ratings seem to coincide with VA panels.

Can I trust my judgement on this?
 
OP
OP
Bumrush

Bumrush

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,363
Thanks guys...I'll watch the Matrix later. And it's always pitch black in the room so I should have noticed. I haven't downloaded the new firmware yet...is it prior to that?
 

georaldc

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,431
Try The Matrix, the start with all the green code going down the screen is completely grey, and the bars just blend in, just awful! Was pure black on my B7.
Is this only with DV content, physical media? I don't have an LG OLED, always wanted to one but I feel like I always read about a different issue pop up regardless of the model or year :(
 

Smokey

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,687
We are confusing different issues here - I am exclusively referring to the glowing black issue on the B6 only, which is across all material, internal and external apps but looks worse with HDR material.

The other issues for the 7 and 8 range are all different. We all have our own problems!
I'm on a B6.
 

DOTDASHDOT

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,119
Thanks guys...I'll watch the Matrix later. And it's always pitch black in the room so I should have noticed. I haven't downloaded the new firmware yet...is it prior to that?
It's never been fixed by the sounds, I rolled back to .20 and still had it.


Is this only with DV content, physical media? I don't have an LG OLED, always wanted to one but I feel like I always read about a different issue pop up regardless of the model or year :(
Yeah just DV disc and steam over HDMI, although Rtings thinks HDR10 is impacted to a lesser degree too :/
 

b0uncyfr0

Member
Apr 2, 2018
54
This has prob been answered before but is it worth trying to overclock your TV?

Are there any good guides out on the web to follow?
 

rou021

Member
Oct 27, 2017
77
There are a lot of questionable points in there. First and foremost is just about everything he said about burn in. To start, burn in has not become a growing crisis for LG. I don’t mean to imply burn in is impossible on OLED—it certainly can happen under the right circumstances—but this is something that LG has actually been focused on improving. And by most accounts it is improving. Reports of burn in seemed to peak with the 2016 models, but have declined year over year. He implies that as more people buy OLEDs, reports of burn in will start to become more common and thus hurt OLED’s reputation. And not just hurt it a little bit, but utterly wreck it to the point of severely affecting sales of OLED TVs. Yet, what really seems to be happing is the opposite: sales have been going up, while reports of burn in are going down.

He also gets part of what causes burn in wrong as it isn’t the blue pixel. In fact, it is my understanding that the blue pixel is the least likely to age prematurely, which is partly why Samsung is researching using blue pixels with color filters for OLED panels. Ironically, one of the reasons Samsung is so concerned about burn in was that they used the fact that their LCDs are resistant to it as a large part of their marketing a couple of years ago. They really went in hard with that against LG in a Nintendon’t sort of way. Notice they stopped using that point after they started development on their own new OLED tech? I’m also not going into the "true colors" statement, which is just plain wrong. Also, Samsung's QD-OLED will not completely eliminate the risk of burn-in. I’m getting the impression the author of this piece has some fundamental misunderstandings to how this technology works.

Speaking of which, Samsung isn’t looking into different display technologies (OLED in particular) because they’re visionaries that see LG’s WOLED is a dead end and want to be ahead of the curve. If anything, Samsung’s QD-OLED shows that they’re being reactionary more than anything. LG’s success in the Premium TV segment with OLED must have had Samsung shook. It would explain why after abandoning OLED TVs years ago, they recently jumped back in and have been investing a lot into it. They seem awfully eager to get it in to production quickly too. Looks to me that Samsung realized doubling down on LCD wasn’t going to work and they may have shot themselves in the foot (insert the "I’m an expert" meme).

Concerning MicroLED, it’s going to be a long time before it’s ready for the mass market. It took a long time before OLED got to where it is now, so I wouldn’t be too hasty. By the time MicroLED ever does get released in sizes people want and at prices they can afford, OLED will have matured further and become even cheaper. Hopefully I’m wrong about MicroLED here.

The more you examine things, the more his argument falls apart. If LG thought WOLED was a dead end and LCD was the way to go, they wouldn’t be divesting from LCD and investing more into OLED. They seem to be ramping up production to meet increasing demand. And it’s not just consumers buying more TVs from LG Electronics; LG Display also is also selling more and more WOLED panels to other manufacturers such as Sony, Panasonic, Philips, Bang & Olafson, and Skyworth (I think there are more, but I can’t remember them off the top of my head). Granted, the health of LGs phone-sized OLED sales are another story, but that’s kind of comparing apples to oranges (and likely due in part to the general decline of smartphone sales). The only real point of concern would be the new tariffs since LG just opened a new factory in China to make TV-sized WOLED panels, but I seriously doubt LG is in a panic over their TV business like this piece suggests. I think FUD really is the best way to describe it.
 
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Rogue74

Member
Nov 13, 2017
377
Miami, FL
Thanks guys...I'll watch the Matrix later. And it's always pitch black in the room so I should have noticed. I haven't downloaded the new firmware yet...is it prior to that?
When you do walk up and stand right in front of the screen. If you see noise in the black bars, the bug is present. Easiest way to check.


What's the big deal? You didn't buy an OLED to have perfect blacks anyway.
Lol!
 

Kerotan

Member
Oct 31, 2018
1,864
There are a lot of questionable points in there. First and foremost is just about everything he said about burn in. To start, burn in has not become a growing crisis for LG. I don’t mean to imply burn in is impossible on OLED—it certainly can happen under the right circumstances—but this is something that LG has actually been focused on improving. And by most accounts it is improving. Reports of burn in seemed to peak with the 2016 models, but have declined year over year. He implies that as more people buy OLEDs, reports of burn in will start to become more common and thus hurt OLED’s reputation. And not just hurt it a little bit, but utterly wreck it to the point of severely affecting sales of OLED TVs. Yet, what really seems to be happing is the opposite: sales have been going up, while reports of burn in are going down.

He also gets part of what causes burn in wrong as it isn’t the blue pixel. In fact, it is my understanding that the blue pixel is the least likely to age prematurely, which is partly why Samsung is researching using blue pixels with color filters for OLED panels. Ironically, one of the reasons Samsung is so concerned about burn in was that they used the fact that their LCDs are resistant to it as a large part of their marketing a couple of years ago. They really went in hard with that against LG in a Nintendon’t sort of way. Notice they stopped using that point after they started development on their own new OLED tech? I’m also not going into the "true colors" statement, which is just plain wrong. Also, Samsung's QD-OLED will not completely eliminate the risk of burn-in. I’m getting the impression the author of this piece has some fundamental misunderstandings to how this technology works.

Speaking of which, Samsung isn’t looking into different display technologies (OLED in particular) because they’re visionaries that see LG’s WOLED is a dead end and want to be ahead of the curve. If anything, Samsung’s QD-OLED shows that they’re being reactionary more than anything. LG’s success in the Premium TV segment with OLED must have had Samsung shook. It would explain why after abandoning OLED TVs years ago, they recently jumped back in and have been investing a lot into it. They seem awfully eager to get it in to production quickly too. Looks to me that Samsung realized doubling down on LCD wasn’t going to work and they may have shot themselves in the foot (insert the "I’m an expert" meme).

Concerning MicroLED, it’s going to be a long time before it’s ready for the mass market. It took a long time before OLED got to where it is now, so I wouldn’t be too hasty. By the time MicroLED ever does get released in sizes people want and at prices they can afford, OLED will have matured further and become even cheaper. Hopefully I’m wrong about MicroLED here.

The more you examine things, the more his argument falls apart. If LG thought WOLED was a dead end and LCD was the way to go, they wouldn’t be divesting from LCD and investing more into OLED. They seem to be ramping up production to meet increasing demand. And it’s not just consumers buying more TVs from LG Electronics; LG Display also is also selling more and more WOLED panels to other manufacturers such as Sony, Panasonic, Philips, Bang & Olafson, and Skyworth (I think there are more, but I can’t remember them off the top of my head). Granted, the health of LGs phone-sized OLED sales are another story, but that’s kind of comparing apples to oranges (and likely due in part to the general decline of smartphone sales). The only real point of concern would be the new tariffs since LG just opened a new factory in China to make TV-sized WOLED panels, but I seriously doubt LG is in a panic over their TV business like this piece suggests. I think FUD really is the best way to describe it.


Excellent retort. They also failed to mention that Top Emmission technology is just over the horizon and could potentially be a game changer for burn in and OLED in general.
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,645


Excellent retort. They also failed to mention that Top Emmission technology is just over the horizon and could potentially be a game changer for burn in and OLED in general.
Top emissions have been around the corner for the two or three years apparently too =\

As far as the b8s go I don't understand where the issue is. In app streaming seems to be fine and PS4 seems to be fine as well as far as blacks go so I'm a little confused.
 

Kyle Cross

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,718
On the LG B7 is Color 39 and Color Temperature W50 still the best settings to counteract the forced Wide Color Gamut in SDR Game mode?

I wish they'd just patch this. It's just them greying out an option, it's infuriating. You can't just switch to PC mode either due to more prominent banding.
 

burgerdog

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,029
On the LG B7 is Color 39 and Color Temperature W50 still the best settings to counteract the forced Wide Color Gamut in SDR Game mode?

I wish they'd just patch this. It's just them greying out an option, it's infuriating. You can't just switch to PC mode either due to more prominent banding.
I have the settings saved that Dot gave us a while back when Ashen destroyed pc input with its out of control banding. I’ll send you a PM with the settings later.
 

cb1115

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,173
Right now I'm looking into 43" models of the XG80 (640e), XF85 (700e) and XG83 (800e) to replace my current bedroom TV that I use mostly for watching tv shows, movies and playing PS4 Pro and as a PC monitor.

Do you guys think I would be satisfied with the XG80 for this use case? Is there any info if this new model is a VA panel on the 43" model?
i've been looking mighty hard at the X800G (XG80) myself. the 43" model has an IPS panel, which is the primary draw for me due to my seating arrangements. the lack of reviews has made me hesitate though.