TV Displays and Tech Thread |OT2| There Is No Perfect TV ™ (Read The OP)

chromatic9

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,189
Argh this is so annoying lol. Is there any good source where you can check all of these specs 'cause I can't seem to find good comparison sites. Some of the shops don't even show the refresh rates which is very frustrating.

EDIT: Also maybe I'm missing something (probably) but you mention "950" but I don't see that anywhere in the models I posted? For clarification it's between the:
Sony KD-49XG9005 and KD-49XF9005
Side by side
https://www.rtings.com/tv/tools/compare/sony-x900f-vs-sony-x950g/585/764
 

burgerdog

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,075
Also, has anyone with a 2018 or 2019 model oled actually suffered burn in, in this thread? As far as I can tell, the ones who have suffered burn in are using older models, 2-4 years old, and even then admit to playing certain games or media on them for well over a thousand hours.
That's another thing, you don't even need to have an 18 or 19 model to have peace of mind. My 4 year old 1080p oled doesn't have any burn in and it has taken a beating through sports and a couple of ui heavy games that I spent 100s of hours on. My 2017 b7 is also pristine. I ain't worried about shit and I'm also not baby-ing them.
 

Sanctuary

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,648
That's another thing, you don't even need to have an 18 or 19 model to have peace of mind. My 4 year old 1080p oled doesn't have any burn in and it has taken a beating through sports and a couple of ui heavy games that I spent 100s of hours on. My 2017 b7 is also pristine. I ain't worried about shit and I'm also not baby-ing them.
One thing that seems to keep being overlooked is that panel variance is a thing, and that includes being within the same models. I babied the hell out of my B6, and it lasted an entire two and a half years. No image retention, or burn in (most games had 40 - 60 hours, with a few over a hundred), but then it didn't really last long enough to test the limits.

People would go on and on about how burn in was no longer an issue with plasmas before I bought mine in 2009, and lo and behold, there would be image retention that would last up to six months from some games that eventually went away, but I do still have permanent burn in from SFIV. Can't notice it during real content, but it's still there. There are just certain genres that don't play nice on emissive displays, and that's not even considering input lag.

chromatic9

This reminded me something. I have a Nintendo Switch and I usually play it on dock. I’m screwed, ain’t I? Haha about fighting games: does stuff like Street Fighter V is also affected by the lag?
Fighting games, shmups, a few platformers and multiplayer shooters are all affected by input lag. Likely won't notice a difference on the newer models though. Anything below 16.6ms is usually great, and anything below 33.2ms is still good and usually won't mess someone up. SFV isn't a one-frame link combo fest like SFIV was. There are also outside factors for input lag as well like the controller/joystick and even the console that all contribute.

That 1080p input lag stuff is so strange. It would make me avoid Switch like the plague.
In hindsight, I wish I had grabbed one of the 1080p OLEDs when they were still available. They were no longer for sale though by the time I thought my plasma was dying. It didn't die, but the black levels are elevated now, so it kind of looks like shit in dark areas.

A bigger issue than burn in on OLEDs is the horrendous and outdated remotes that manufacturers still ship with their TV sets.

LG's one is horrendous with those low quality plastics, even if it has some useful features. It's unnaceptable to ship something like that with expensive sets.
Panasonic's is so outdated looking it hurts.
The E6 had a really nice remote compared to the typically generic "magic remote" most of the sets seem to ship with anymore. Joked around and always called it the "light saber" in comparison to the others due to the shape and weight.

 
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burgerdog

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,075
People would go on and on about how burn in was no longer an issue with plasmas before I bought mine in 2009, and lo and behold, there would be image retention that would last up to six months from some games that eventually went away, but I do still have permanent burn in from SFIV. Can't notice it during real content, but it's still there. There are just certain genres that don't play nice on emissive displays, and that's not even considering input lag.

I bought a panasonic v something 25 many years ago after reading about burn in not being an issue and the first two games that I played on it left their UIs on it permanently, FFXIII's huge battle UI and god of war 3's as well. That one hurt.
 

chromatic9

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,189
chromatic9

This reminded me something. I have a Nintendo Switch and I usually play it on dock. I’m screwed, ain’t I? Haha about fighting games: does stuff like Street Fighter V is also affected by the lag?
Possibly, depends on what game and your sensitivity. Are you able to take your Switch to a TV shop and test?

Perhaps putting up with Samsung's subtitle problem is best as it's the best for input lag and gaming features and probably cheaper than the 900f even in Brazil?
 

Smokey

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,780
I feel like this is just an OLED owners thread and all other posts are ignored. Isn't there an OLED thread?
QFT I feel the same way.

If I had an OLED I wouldn't be watching all my Twins games, afk'ing ESPN, and marathoning a few PS4 games on it, that's for sure. I'd take care of it and use it for UHD discs and TV watching.
lol no. I watch a tonnn of sports, rockets games, etc. No problem. Just watch the damn TV. If it would bug you that much just get a warranty and be done with it. Would still be cheaper than the equivalent high end LED.
 

IMACOMPUTA

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,065
I had purchased a Vizio P55-f1, and was really impressed with it's performance, but I had issues with parts of the screen dimming, including a horizontal bar that would occasionally dim across the screen. I'm curious if I had a bad set, or if those kind of issues are inherent with FALD? Even my girlfriend was getting distracted while watching TV from parts of the screen changing in brightness.
I'm just looking for a TV with nice blacks and HDR performance. I was happy with the Vizio in those regards, and I'm hoping I don't have to spend an extra 500 on an OLED just to avoid those issues.
I hope someone answers you. I've been thinking about getting this TV. It'll be my first FALD set.
 

Xeontech

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,855
I’m honestly scared to get OLED.

From the beginning of time, gamers like to sit down, and play a game for hours on end. If that ruins a brand new tv, there’s an issue with the hardware. Hands down.

MicroLED come save us!
 

Kerotan

Member
Oct 31, 2018
2,048
Thing is, only an extreme minority of people have suffered burn in, so it's not about ignoring them, but simply looking at things in greater context and appreciating that it's a rare outlier issue, not a common occurrence. Then there's an element of user responsibility too, just don't play 8 hours of X game in a row with static HUD elements in one place the entire time, and if you do, run an image retention cleaner video every 3-4 hours or whatever, and hey presto, burn in avoided.

Also, has anyone with a 2018 or 2019 model oled actually suffered burn in, in this thread? As far as I can tell, the ones who have suffered burn in are using older models, 2-4 years old, and even then admit to playing certain games or media on them for well over a thousand hours.

I was primarily a plasma user prior to oled, and you had to baby the older plasmas far more than you do OLED's. For me the PQ trade off will always be more than worth it, especially with how resilient to burn in these new sets are these days.
In fairness you would expect the people who bought the latest sets to get burn in for another 2+ years.
They look very similar. X900F feet can be switched around to point inward but not on the 950G.

950g is slightly brighter has lower contrast ratio. I could tell but it's minimal. I prefer X900f here.

1080p game mode output is about 19ms on 950g while 41ms on 900f
950g has full 2.0 bandwidth on all ports, only 2/3 have on 900f
Better remote on 950g
eArc support on 950g
950g comes with android 8.0 which is a bit smoother

Here in the UK the 950g is about £600 more expensive. I would go with 900f or look at the fald qled range in the 950g price range if I'm going to spend £1600. For 950g money OLED comes into the equation for some people.

I'd rather get a deal now and look at TVs in a few years time once all the new tech is in place and running great.
Argh this is so annoying lol. Is there any good source where you can check all of these specs 'cause I can't seem to find good comparison sites. Some of the shops don't even show the refresh rates which is very frustrating.

EDIT: Also maybe I'm missing something (probably) but you mention "950" but I don't see that anywhere in the models I posted? For clarification it's between the:
Sony KD-49XG9005 and KD-49XF9005
https://www.rtings.com/tv/tools/compare/sony-x900f-vs-sony-x950g/585/764?usage=7318&threshold=0.1

Some regions use the 950 number and others 900. Pointlessly confusing.

The guys reply to you was good and pointed out the improvements. If you check the link I sent you, you'll see the F does a few things slightly better but overall the G is a little better. If you really want the G you could wait until the sales in November and get a nice deal. You'll save a few hundred quid for the sake of 5/6 months.
 

2Bee

or not 2B
Moderator
Oct 27, 2017
5,268
Nah, Dolby want 10,000nit capable displays a the improvement in output was always seen as preferable
Output is not the problem, I'm pretty sure Sony or Samsung could make a 10,000 nit display right now if they wanted.

The problem is keeping a decent contrast and also being able to display that level of brightness without crushing any details around it.

Energy rating regulations are probably a factor too, even for LED backlit LCDs.

There's a reason all the top end FALD LCD seem to be stuck around 1500-2500 for the max possible brightness, but those top ends come with caveats, like not being able to keep anywhere near the brightness for anymore than a few seconds or the full screen brightness and real scene brightness being way lower. Its one of the reason Vincent said the X950G is one of the brightest LCDs he has ever tested, even tho its peak highlights are much lower than other LCDs.
 

Greekboy™

Member
Oct 25, 2017
318
Toronto
I did end up ordering the 75” Q90R. It was $700 off this week. So, $4299-$2000. Then I had $700 in My Best Buy rewards I’ve been saving up. Get the Best Buy credit card and use it when you go out to eat and for groceries is all I can say. :) In the end it was $1600 plus tax. It is being delivered on Saturday.

This may be the first time an extended warranty ever paid off for me.

I considered an OLED, but I wanted a 75” TV and the price of the C9 is just too much. And I have a bright room with windows that face the screen. The Q90R has the best anti-reflective screen available. And it gets far brighter than an OLED.

Burn-in was a secondary consideration, but still on my mind.
Congrats man. Show us some pics after you're settled in and fully installed.
 

EvilBoris

Member
Oct 29, 2017
5,422
Output is not the problem, I'm pretty sure Sony or Samsung could make a 10,000 nit display right now if they wanted.

The problem is keeping a decent contrast and also being able to display that level of brightness without crushing any details around it.

Energy rating regulations are probably a factor too, even for LED backlit LCDs.

There's a reason all the top end FALD LCD seem to be stuck around 1500-2500 for the max possible brightness, but those top ends come with caveats, like not being able to keep anywhere near the brightness for anymore than a few seconds or the full screen brightness and real scene brightness being way lower. Its one of the reason Vincent said the X950G is one of the brightest LCDs he has ever tested, even tho its peak highlights are much lower than other LCDs.

Energy ratings are definitely part of the problem , as is the amount of heat that a high intensity LED pumps out. I always wonder what the displays were that Dolby used in their R&D.

Sony or Samsung do have a 10,000nit display they have showed, but presumably it’s just a proof of concept rather than being anywhere near production. Most of it is just down to massive screens=more=dimming zones=More light output.

In terms of consumer sets it isn’t going to be the technologies we have now that will drive these improvements, it’s going to be other display technologies, whether that’s QDOLED or MLED who knows
 

2Bee

or not 2B
Moderator
Oct 27, 2017
5,268
Energy ratings are definitely part of the problem , as is the amount of heat that a high intensity LED pumps out. I always wonder what the displays were that Dolby used in their R&D.

Sony or Samsung do have a 10,000nit display they have showed, but presumably it’s just a proof of concept rather than being anywhere near production. Most of it is just down to massive screens=more=dimming zones=More light output.

In terms of consumer sets it isn’t going to be the technologies we have now that will drive these improvements, it’s going to be other display technologies, whether that’s QDOLED or MLED who knows
Thats what I guessed, it will take new tech to get near that level of brightness.
 

Sanctuary

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,648
I think if it hits 1499 I'll break.

I'm just trying to imagine/tell myself that VRR will be important in the future
At the current price, it doesn't honestly matter. If VRR really gets wide support, it won't be for at least another year or more, and who knows how supported it will be on the next consoles. Similarly with HDMI 2.1. You could buy the TV now, and think "Yeah...future proofing!", and then three or four years later want a different set. Or just wait an entire year for the C9 to reach a similar price. I'm more interested in the 2020/2021 models at this point, since they should be revising the technology in a big way.

$1,800 or less is a steal for a 65'', and had I known how underwhelming the C9 was going to be back in March, I would have picked a C8 up locally at Best Buy for $2,000. I ended up getting a C8 for $1,800 through the mail, and I didn't win the panel lottery (it's pretty good, and might improve, but the issue it has is pretty noticeable for now). The warranty was also a nightmare ordering through the mail, but at least I wasn't paying $3,500 for a C9.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,649
Has anyone gone from x7 series lg oled to x9 series? Thoughts?

Also, has anyone gone from oled to the new samsung/sony LEDs? also thoughts?
 

GlowingBovine

Member
Nov 27, 2017
136
My local Best Buy has an open box 55 B8 for 750, the label said there was damage but an employee said they put that so it would lower the price to get rid of them. I almost bit, but then he said he could give me one brand new for 999.

So I guess now I own an OLED tv...

More related to the topic, is there any particular firmware version I should use for it, or just update to the newest?
 

GasProblem

Member
Nov 18, 2017
726
Man, I finally think I found a TV. There's a sale here for the 55 Samsung Q8D. The Q8FN in Europe does not have FALD, the Q8D does. It's normally €1500, but I can get €500 cash back so it would be €1000, the same price as the X900F. And I'll mainly use the tv for gaming, so the lower input lag is sweet. And since it has FALD I read the subtitle issue is less noticeable then on the Q6FN I've been eyeing.

Does anyone here have the Q8D and are you happy with it?
 

chromatic9

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,189
In fairness you would expect the people who bought the latest sets to get burn in for another 2+ years.



https://www.rtings.com/tv/tools/compare/sony-x900f-vs-sony-x950g/585/764?usage=7318&threshold=0.1

Some regions use the 950 number and others 900. Pointlessly confusing.

The guys reply to you was good and pointed out the improvements. If you check the link I sent you, you'll see the F does a few things slightly better but overall the G is a little better. If you really want the G you could wait until the sales in November and get a nice deal. You'll save a few hundred quid for the sake of 5/6 months.
Already sent the person the link in post #15,652
 

2Bee

or not 2B
Moderator
Oct 27, 2017
5,268
Man, I finally think I found a TV. There's a sale here for the 55 Samsung Q8D. The Q8FN in Europe does not have FALD, the Q8D does. It's normally €1500, but I can get €500 cash back so it would be €1000, the same price as the X900F. And I'll mainly use the tv for gaming, so the lower input lag is sweet. And since it has FALD I read the subtitle issue is less noticeable then on the Q6FN I've been eyeing.

Does anyone here have the Q8D and are you happy with it?
You need a Q9FN or Z9D level of LCD to get an acceptable (in my opinion) level of subtitle blooming.

I can tell you its bad on the X900F, and this is a well reviewed LCD, which I personally love, and has similar dimming zones to the Q8 so its going to be there on the Q8 as well.
 

marecki

Member
Aug 2, 2018
27
There was a firmware update on LG C9 in UK overnight (to 3.50.34) and happy to report that screen tearing issue in VRR is now fixed, I tested Wolf 2 with dynamic res off and Sekiro (which was for me the worst offender by far) and no tearing at all in either of these.
 

Sunbro83

Member
Oct 27, 2017
374
Not sure if this is the best place for this but it's more active than the audio thread and some of you may be familiar with this sort of stuff.

My current setup is an LG C8 with audio through a Samsung MS650 soundbar connected via ARC. I've always felt like I had lip sync issues but could never tweak the settings to get it completely right. The other day I played some Rock band for the first time in years and the auto calibration tools threw out some interesting figures.

My standard setup gave the following numbers:



That audio number seems really high? The maximum the in game adjustments allow you to compensate for is +300ms so I'm already pushing just past that limit (although the extra 4ms won't be noticeable). Also confused by the video numbers. I'm playing in Game mode with all prcessing switched off so shouldn't that be closer to 21ms?

My PS4 is pushing audio out via DTS Bitstream (as my soundbar can't handle 5.1 PCM). I thought I'd try switching to Dolby to see if it made a difference and got the following:



I'd read there were issues with using Dolby but I was surprised to see it added over 100ms of audio lag compared to DTS. Since the maximum the game can adjust for is 300ms that isn't even an option.

I tried some other scenarios to see if anything helped. I'll just link the rest of the pictures and put the figures in brackets.

Switched out the HDMI for Optical (using DTS again) but got near identical numbers (303 / 63): https://abload.de/img/img_8133o9jwz.jpg

Removed the soundbar completely and went with TV speakers. This knocked about 50ms off the audio lag but it's still almost 200ms behind the video (245 / 65): https://abload.de/img/img_8137dukqv.jpg

The soundbar has built in AV sync features. You can only increase though (+25, +50, +75 etc) and it does exactly what you'd expect:

+50 (359 / 64) - https://abload.de/img/img_813900k54.jpg

+100 (412 / 61) - https://abload.de/img/img_81409qjq5.jpg

The C8 also has an AV Sync Adjustment option in the menu. Again, it only allows me to increase though:

+3 (368 / 67) - https://abload.de/img/img_8141p7jty.jpg

+6 (424 / 63) - https://abload.de/img/img_8142x7klh.jpg

Strange that the sync options on both the TV and Soundbar only allow you to increase the audio lag and not the other way round?

Any suggestions where I go from here? Are the figures I'm looking at normal and nothing to worry about? I know 0.2 seconds isn't a huge gap but I can often tell that the audio is off from the video when people are talking. Not a big deal but it's mildly irritating.
 

ascii42

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,850
Strange that the sync options on both the TV and Soundbar only allow you to increase the audio lag and not the other way round?
Not surprising in the case of the soundbar. How would you decrease audio lag below the minimum? I guess a TV could add video lag to match the audio lag, but that would be really not ideal for gaming.

I had to hook up the PS4 and other components directly to my soundbar, and only use ARC for broadcast TV audio and built in apps.
 

Hasney

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
6,020
There was a firmware update on LG C9 in UK overnight (to 3.50.34) and happy to report that screen tearing issue in VRR is now fixed, I tested Wolf 2 with dynamic res off and Sekiro (which was for me the worst offender by far) and no tearing at all in either of these.
Neat! Yeah, the US one that went out has a different version number, so it's a fun mess ha.

It also added Alexa support, for those in the Amazon smart ecosystem.
 

ninjaboyjohn

Member
Oct 30, 2017
148
California
Don't do it.

Do it.
I came home last night and my wife said our 2012 LG plasma made a loud popping sound and died. Sure enough, one of the boards blew.

So I found this thread and that slickdeals post and now I have an 65 inch C8 coming soon :D

My plasma survived 7 years without bad burn-in, so I'm not worried about the OLED. I also haven't actually experienced 4k yet at someone's home, so hopefully I'm in for a treat!
 

Brucey

Member
Jan 2, 2018
537
I came home last night and my wife said our 2012 LG plasma made a loud popping sound and died. Sure enough, one of the boards blew.

So I found this thread and that slickdeals post and now I have an 65 inch C8 coming soon :D

My plasma survived 7 years without bad burn-in, so I'm not worried about the OLED. I also haven't actually experienced 4k yet at someone's home, so hopefully I'm in for a treat!
Enjoy! You’re gonna love it. I’ll be interested to know if 4k or HDR makes a bigger impression on you. HDR was the thing that blew me away.
 

Hasney

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
6,020
Enjoy! You’re gonna love it. I’ll be interested to know if 4k or HDR makes a bigger impression on you. HDR was the thing that blew me away.
Yeah, the resolution is neat, but man, popping in Tetris Effect, Horizon and then just seeing the city intro of John Wick 2 with HDR on is crazy.
 

impact

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,289
Tampa
Enjoy! You’re gonna love it. I’ll be interested to know if 4k or HDR makes a bigger impression on you. HDR was the thing that blew me away.
Both is needed for games IMO. Try Mankind Divided on Xbox, it has HDR but its 900p and my god it looks like ass on my C8. Not even for free could I play that crap.
 

Brucey

Member
Jan 2, 2018
537
Both is needed for games IMO. Try Mankind Divided on Xbox, it has HDR but its 900p and my god it looks like ass on my C8. Not even for free could I play that crap.
Totally agree that both are important. 4k was something that after awhile it stopped impressing me, while hdr consistently was something that wowed me. As soon as I played something in 720p after playing in 4k was when I realized how much I took 4k for granted. It’s so hard to go back lol.