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TV Displays and Tech Thread |OT2| There Is No Perfect TV ™ (Read The OP)

OP
OP
Bumrush

Bumrush

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,367
Hey, peeps

I just got an LG B9. I followed RT's general calibration settings and hooked up the PS4Pro.

As soon as I did the TV turned on Instant Game Response and Ultra Deep Color, but I quickly noticed the colors were blown out, like watching a bad HDR capture. I corrected that by changing the picture mode from Auto Power Saver back to Expert Bright Room, (I don't know why it defaulted to that instead of Game mode). I then proceeded to calibrate the HDR settings on the PS4.

Death Stranding looks incredible. Beautiful color depth, very deep shadows. Gorgeous.

One issue. There's a very noticeable ghosting judder upon panning the camera on heavily textured areas.

Of course, TruMotion is off. But I feel like I'm missing something. I've seen gifs where the riverbank textures look so crisp, even as the camera pans. Maybe it's the slow mo, maybe that's the game's motion blur causing artifacts...

Oddly enough the frame rate feels smoother and more responsive than on my Dell monitor.

I'm like a deer in headlights with this TV lol
I’ll respond to you later when I am in front of my TV but I tweaked the motion settings on my C8 and it MASSIVELY improved the panning stutter. No SOE either. Worth the try.
 

guitarguy316

Member
Nov 3, 2017
556

Milly79

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
259
Really loving the Samsung RU8000 I just got. I know rtings points out the NU is the superior model, but they were the same price as a new RU and used to boot. I got mine for $323 on amazon open box, never used. Definitely feels like a step over my TCL s405.
 

EvilBoris

HDTVtest
Verified
Oct 29, 2017
6,986
So in my country there is a Black Friday deal for an LG OLED C9 55'' for 1399 euros.

Do you guys think this is a good deal?I'm contemplating on whether or not I should I wait for next year to get an HDMI 2.1 TV...
I think that’s about the going rate. It’s not gonna change significantly away from that kinda price.
 

BaldwinAce

Member
Oct 28, 2017
335
So far I am loving it! It’s quite the nice upgrade, that’s for sure! I currently have a PS4 Pro, and Xbox one X, so gaming on it has been a real dream! I’m actually replying a bunch of games because of the added picture quality! HDR is INCREDIBLE!

4K movies are stunning, and even the missus agrees that the quality has jumped significantly.
Hehe, thats great to hear. Have you refered to any calibrations online by any chance? BiGBoSSMk23 's post above yours is pretty concerning to me as I was going to use Rtings.com's recommanded settings too.
 
Hehe, thats great to hear. Have you refered to any calibrations online by any chance? BiGBoSSMk23 's post above yours is pretty concerning to me as I was going to use Rtings.com's recommanded settings too.
Honestly I just bumped some of the brightness down, and went with what looks nice to me visually. I started with Rtings settings, but I’m just putting on some hours till I get my set professionally calibrated.
 

MrBob

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,854
QNED doesn't roll off the tongue like QLED.

If Samsung is using nano technology which is smaller than micro led, not sure when we actually see a consumer version. Micro led is years away from a consumer model being a normal price. Mini LED seems to be the next step for now.
 

Ferrs

Avenger
Oct 26, 2017
9,318
the c9 is like the only set on the market that has hdmi 2.1
B9 also has HDMI 2.1 with the same features as the C9.
They start to get thin in Jan/Feb but sometimes there's a few of the non big box places selling them into Mar/Apr. If you want the cheapest deal, you'll have to get it online from a lesser known retailer but still legit.



Well technically the E9 too :)
The LG SM9000 and SM95000 (higher end LG LED TVs) also have HDMI 2.1. They are IPS panels though.
 

Sid

Member
Mar 28, 2018
1,976
QNED doesn't roll off the tongue like QLED.

If Samsung is using nano technology which is smaller than micro led, not sure when we actually see a consumer version. Micro led is years away from a consumer model being a normal price. Mini LED seems to be the next step for now.
I think Dual layer Led could be the next step
 

MrKlaw

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,948
I think Dual layer Led could be the next step
same. If people can survive the shock of a tv That isn’t thinner than your phone,i think that could be a good bridge technologyto bring led/lcd brightness and combine with near OLED level contrast due to effective ‘per pixel‘ dimming zones. And the tech should be Relatively straightforward as you’re using Mature and well known components
 

Sid

Member
Mar 28, 2018
1,976
same. If people can survive the shock of a tv That isn’t thinner than your phone,i think that could be a good bridge technologyto bring led/lcd brightness and combine with near OLED level contrast due to effective ‘per pixel‘ dimming zones. And the tech should be Relatively straightforward as you’re using Mature and well known components
I just hope that shit isn't too expensive and Sony brings out a model as soon as possible.
 

ZOONAMI

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,419
The LG SM9000 and SM95000 (higher end LG LED TVs) also have HDMI 2.1. They are IPS panels though.
the sm9000 actually has a pretty good price point but that’s because it really kind of sucks vs the 9500. The fald does nothing for the contrast where the 9500 boosts it quite a bit and the 9000 nit level is really only like budget tv level. If the 9500 came down to more like $1k for the 65 I’d consider it as a replacement for my 55 b7 and put the b7 upstairs. I kind of like watching in a room with lights on and IPS are actually nice for that.
 

Ferrs

Avenger
Oct 26, 2017
9,318
the sm9000 actually has a pretty good price point but that’s because it really kind of sucks vs the 9500. The fald does nothing for the contrast where the 9500 boosts it quite a bit and the 9000 nit level is really only like budget tv level. If the 9500 came down to more like $1k for the 65 I’d consider it as a replacement for my 55 b7 and put the b7 upstairs. I kind of like watching in a room with lights on and IPS are actually nice for that.
Yes, I saw the 9500 side by side to a C8 and it actually surprised me how decent it looked for being IPS, of course it was a bright mall so it had an advantage. But, the price practically the same as the C8 so it was a no brainer what to get...
 
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ZOONAMI

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,419
Yes, I saw the 9500 side by side to a C8 and it actually surprised me how decent it looked for being IPS, of course it was a bright mall so it had an advantage. But, the price practically the same as the C8 so it was a no brainer what to get...
i actually think it’s odd how ips gets shit on in the tv space. A good ips panel is generally going to be better than VA and if it has a good fald implementation the contrast is good too. Better colors, viewing angles, and reflection handling. You kind of get most of the benefits of oled just missing the insane contrast obviously. But like a 3000 contrast ratio is actually about as good as most va panels and even in a dark room you’re good at that point. The last gen vizio p series ips is an amazing set for example. The 9500 is too it’s just overpriced.

its odd to me in the monitor space ips is the gold standard. If done right it can be in the tv space as well (excluding oled).

id like to see tcl and hisense do ips with good fald implementations on the cheap. Or vizio should keep it as an option on the 65 p series.
 
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JoRu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
880
Does anyone have any experience with the Samsung Q60R or a low-/mid-end Philips TV such as the PUS6754 (or something close to that)?

I ordered the Samsung one, but I'm having second thoughts. First of all the Q60R is black plastic, and also lacks some legacy ports that I find convenient for old consoles/my old sound system etc. The TV has also been criticised a bit for lack of a high peak brightness, mostly because it's edge-lit.

The Philips one is considerably cheaper, honestly looks better personally (and is silver aluminium and not plastic), has Ambilight which is quite enticing, and lots of old ports so I won't have to buy (sometimes expensive) adapters. However, the remote is of the old kind (bound to get sticky and nasty, I'm sure) and software seems to be very limited and from some accounts slow (which is remedied quite a bit by buying a Chromecast). It's probably got a worse display, but it's direct-lit and has Dolby Vision so can't be too bad, right?

I doubt anyone here has experience with both, but maybe someone has experience with Philips or that specific Samsung and could give me somewhat of a feel whether it'd be a mistake to go with the cheaper Philips instead?
 

BiGBoSSMk23

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,362
I’ll respond to you later when I am in front of my TV but I tweaked the motion settings on my C8 and it MASSIVELY improved the panning stutter. No SOE either. Worth the try.
Oh, so there is a stutter? It's like a ghosting effect right? I was about to say "fuck it I'll get used to it".

Wouldn't motion settings massively spike up input lag?
 
OP
OP
Bumrush

Bumrush

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,367
Oh, so there is a stutter? It's like a ghosting effect right? I was about to say "fuck it I'll get used to it".

Wouldn't motion settings massively spike up input lag?
I haven't noticed any change in input lag. I'm by no means a competitive gamer (read: I suck at games) but I regularly play Rocket League and it's super responsive (plus I platinumed Bloodborne so that has to count for something, right??)

Under Trumotion I have De-Judder set to 3, De-Blur set to 0 and Motion Pro OFF. It made a massive difference to me. Coming from Plasma it was the one thing that was significantly worse, but after tweaking the settings it's pretty good.

Hope it helps!
 

JB1981

Member
Oct 28, 2017
10,443
Oh, so there is a stutter? It's like a ghosting effect right? I was about to say "fuck it I'll get used to it".

Wouldn't motion settings massively spike up input lag?
Yes stutter is inherent to OLED panels. 30fps games are pretty bad. For movies, I think the Sony OLEDs are a little better but not by much.
 

Hasney

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
6,690
I'm surprised Death Stranding was picked out. Played 100 hours and not noticing any judder, no tru motion settings either.

The only game I've found to be horrendous was Crash Team Racing, but making a racing game 30fps was a horrendous decision to start with.
 

BiGBoSSMk23

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,362
I haven't noticed any change in input lag. I'm by no means a competitive gamer (read: I suck at games) but I regularly play Rocket League and it's super responsive (plus I platinumed Bloodborne so that has to count for something, right??)

Under Trumotion I have De-Judder set to 3, De-Blur set to 0 and Motion Pro OFF. It made a massive difference to me. Coming from Plasma it was the one thing that was significantly worse, but after tweaking the settings it's pretty good.

Hope it helps!
Yes, thank you! I was thinking of taking a trip down the good ole COD days on my old Vizio LCD, which had excellent input latency. But I'm honestly fine doing my competitive gaming on my PC/Monitor. I now have the big OLED for comfy couch(tm) HDR single player experiences(tm). Lol

Yes stutter is inherent to OLED panels. 30fps games are pretty bad. For movies, I think the Sony OLEDs are a little better but not by much.
That's so interesting. The LG OLEDS keep being touted as the best gaming TV's. But having to enable motion settings to account for judder is antithetical to everything they say about input lag.

Just to be clear, the picture preset doesn't have to be set to Game, right? Just as long as Instant Game Response and Ultra Deep Color are enabled for the PS4's input, I'm good?

I'm surprised Death Stranding was picked out. Played 100 hours and not noticing any judder, no tru motion settings either.

The only game I've found to be horrendous was Crash Team Racing, but making a racing game 30fps was a horrendous decision to start with.
I'll try to make a video to illustrate.

The frame rate feels higher, or smoother than even on my monitor ...yet the there's this micro judder over everything that has high res textures. Like a sharpness ghosting when panning. It's like the 30fps frame judder is wider on my monitor, but on the OLED it's narrower, giving it a more responsive feel, but a blurry/juddery look. It's hard to describe.
 

Hasney

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
6,690
I'll try to make a video to illustrate.

The frame rate feels higher, or smoother than even on my monitor ...yet the there's this micro judder over everything that has high res textures. Like a sharpness ghosting when panning. It's like the 30fps frame judder is wider on my monitor, but on the OLED it's narrower, giving it a more responsive feel, but a blurry/juddery look. It's hard to describe.
Yeah, I know what you mean. I saw it on Crash. Either I'm just far too used to it now after having the C9 for 6 months or CTR was so bad that everything else looks fine!
 

Haint

Member
Oct 14, 2018
288
Does anyone have any experience with the Samsung Q60R or a low-/mid-end Philips TV such as the PUS6754 (or something close to that)?

I ordered the Samsung one, but I'm having second thoughts. First of all the Q60R is black plastic, and also lacks some legacy ports that I find convenient for old consoles/my old sound system etc. The TV has also been criticised a bit for lack of a high peak brightness, mostly because it's edge-lit.

The Philips one is considerably cheaper, honestly looks better personally (and is silver aluminium and not plastic), has Ambilight which is quite enticing, and lots of old ports so I won't have to buy (sometimes expensive) adapters. However, the remote is of the old kind (bound to get sticky and nasty, I'm sure) and software seems to be very limited and from some accounts slow (which is remedied quite a bit by buying a Chromecast). It's probably got a worse display, but it's direct-lit and has Dolby Vision so can't be too bad, right?

I doubt anyone here has experience with both, but maybe someone has experience with Philips or that specific Samsung and could give me somewhat of a feel whether it'd be a mistake to go with the cheaper Philips instead?
I can't comment on the Philips from the US, it could great or a turd. I can however say the Q60 is ridiculously overpriced for what it is. In terms of performance, it's effectively a marketing rebadge of the budget XX6000/6300 series from the last 3 or 4 years. Those models were good basic sets, but they were also the BF doorbusters and dirt cheap for most of the year. The Q60 is much more expensive for the same basic level of performance. Samsung's unscrupulous and deceptive marketing department are Pro's at ripping people off, successfully convincing most that "LED TV's" were not LCD's, and now that their bargain basement "QLED" models are some new technology that's competitive with OLED's. Only the Q80 and Q90 are worthwhile, but they cost just as much as (and often times more than) an OLED.
 
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BiGBoSSMk23

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,362
Yeah, I know what you mean. I saw it on Crash. Either I'm just far too used to it now after having the C9 for 6 months or CTR was so bad that everything else looks fine!
Actually I'm a dumbass.

The TV seems to have defaulted to HDR Standard when Death Stranding booted, which comes with TruMotion set to Clear. Obviously it looks smoother and with artifacts because it's freaking interpolating frames! Lol
 

zerocalories

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,380
Been using my c9 for a while now and its great but I'm having a weird issue

Randomly if the screen turns black for a split-second, like a black frame is inserted. This only happens during gaming. I changed the HDMI cable, and it continues to happen. Any suggestions?
 

Blackthorn

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,091
London
Been using my c9 for a while now and its great but I'm having a weird issue

Randomly if the screen turns black for a split-second, like a black frame is inserted. This only happens during gaming. I changed the HDMI cable, and it continues to happen. Any suggestions?
I have this same fault. I’ve done extensive troubleshooting and it happens across all sources, including built in apps, whether devices are plugged in or not.

I’m getting it repaired next Tuesday, I’ll let you know the outcome (remind me if I don’t).

It’s frustrating because it happens very rarely, making troubleshooting a laborious process.
 

zerocalories

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,380
I have this same fault. I’ve done extensive troubleshooting and it happens across all sources, including built in apps, whether devices are plugged in or not.

I’m getting it repaired next Tuesday, I’ll let you know the outcome (remind me if I don’t).

It’s frustrating because it happens very rarely, making troubleshooting a laborious process.
Yikes. How often was this happening? Did it happen with regular desktop usage?
 

tokkun

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,658
That's so interesting. The LG OLEDS keep being touted as the best gaming TV's. But having to enable motion settings to account for judder is antithetical to everything they say about input lag.
I would say they are the best for 60-fps+ games. Because of their fast response times and sub-par black frame insertion mode, they do better the higher your refresh rate goes.

For 30-fps games I think you could make an argument for some of the Samsung sets. They have a game mode interpolation setting that has an input lag of ~30 ms, making it viable for most types of games.

The frame rate feels higher, or smoother than even on my monitor ...yet the there's this micro judder over everything that has high res textures. Like a sharpness ghosting when panning. It's like the 30fps frame judder is wider on my monitor, but on the OLED it's narrower, giving it a more responsive feel, but a blurry/juddery look. It's hard to describe.
In terms of panning blur, OLEDs (and LCDs) are sample-and-hold displays, so they are going to be blurrier than plasmas or CRTs. Higher frame rates can help with this, as can black frame insertion. LG was supposed to introduce an improved BFI system on this year's sets, but they pulled it at the 11th hour. So it may show up on the 2020 models.
 

BiGBoSSMk23

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,362
Yeah, I know what you mean. I saw it on Crash. Either I'm just far too used to it now after having the C9 for 6 months or CTR was so bad that everything else looks fine!
Actually I'm a dumbass.

The TV seems to have defaulted to HDR Standard when Death Stranding booted, which comes with TruMotion set to Clear. Obviously it looks smoother and with artifacts because it's freaking interpolating frames! Lol
I would say they are the best for 60-fps+ games. Because of their fast response times and sub-par black frame insertion mode, they do better the higher your refresh rate goes.

For 30-fps games I think you could make an argument for some of the Samsung sets. They have a game mode interpolation setting that has an input lag of ~30 ms, making it viable for most types of games.



In terms of panning blur, OLEDs (and LCDs) are sample-and-hold displays, so they are going to be blurrier than plasmas or CRTs. Higher frame rates can help with this, as can black frame insertion. LG was supposed to introduce an improved BFI system on this year's sets, but they pulled it at the 11th hour. So it may show up on the 2020 models.
I read about BFI on RTings, but had no idea they pulled it. Shitty.

The mini judder/ghosting I was describing turned out to be interpolation artifacts from the TruMotion set to Clear when the picture mode changed to Standard.

Now that it's off, I see the actual 30fps judder and it's not nice, to say the least.

Would you recommend porting over most of the picture settings from regular SDR viewing to HDR Game? And if so, is there a consensus on the best picture settings for HDR gaming on an LG OLED?

Peak brightness, black level, tone mapping, color temp, OLED light etc...?
 

tiku

Member
Oct 26, 2017
24
I can only unhelpfully speak as a C6 owner, but Oled Light on 50 is definitely correct for this gen. It has certainly been an LG *thing* but somebody more informed will have to confirm for later models.
Unless the recent updates changed it you wanted to leave OLED light at 50 for Dolby Vision and 100 for HDR10 (the default vales), for the 8 series, and not to worry dv will still use the panels full potential at 50.

Thanks a lot! :)

Yes, my main concern was about not using the full potential of the panel with Oled Lights set at 50 when DV triggers. I feel calmer seeing that you, who are users of models prior to 2019 as me, are using that value.

I guess I've been eating delicious crushed blacks for almost a year now, hahahaha.

Thanks again :)

2Bee, you know we miss your Alonso avatar, right? xD
 

Night Hunter

Member
Dec 5, 2017
544
I don't really know if this is the right thread for this, but what would you recommend as a streaming device?

As I am in continental Europe, Roku is kind of a non starter. Plus even the Ultra does not have Dolby Vision, so that's pretty much out.

As price is not an issue I'm gravitating either towards a Shield TV Pro or an Apple 4k TV. Any recommendations between the two?
 

Hasney

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
6,690
I don't really know if this is the right thread for this, but what would you recommend as a streaming device?

As I am in continental Europe, Roku is kind of a non starter. Plus even the Ultra does not have Dolby Vision, so that's pretty much out.

As price is not an issue I'm gravitating either towards a Shield TV Pro or an Apple 4k TV. Any recommendations between the two?
I think it comes down to interface preferences at that point. Feature and app wise, they're pretty much on par and you can sideload any old Android app onto a Shield TV if you are missing something. For instance I just threw Project xCloud on there and it works great.

What TV do you have? Does that have any Chromecast or Apple Airplay functionality already? Casting to Android TV works with more things than Airplay in my experience, but if you already have one functionality, might be best going the opposite way.

Do you intend to buy any streaming movies? iTunes has the best quality there, so could also be a consideration. Apple TV remote is straight garbage though.

My personal preference is the Shield TV, works great, snappy and the in-home streaming is fantastic. But they're close enough that there is a lot of personal factors to take into account.
 

Mitchman1411

Member
Jul 28, 2018
425
Oslo, Norway
I don't really know if this is the right thread for this, but what would you recommend as a streaming device?

As I am in continental Europe, Roku is kind of a non starter. Plus even the Ultra does not have Dolby Vision, so that's pretty much out.

As price is not an issue I'm gravitating either towards a Shield TV Pro or an Apple 4k TV. Any recommendations between the two?
I have both and they are both very good. I usually use my shield pro for youtube, twitch, etc for its better remote, but Apple TV's automatic switching to the correct resolution/HDR is preferred over the shield pro.
 

Karspankey

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,462
Hmmm, my B8 turns itself off whenever my XBOX is on for a minute or so. Don't think I have any HDMI CEC functions on, especially since I turned them off completely in the TV's settings.
 

Hydes

Member
Oct 28, 2017
781
I have $1,000 to spend on a tv plus tax...which tv would be the best for my budget and please tell me what size.
 

tokkun

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,658
Would you recommend porting over most of the picture settings from regular SDR viewing to HDR Game? And if so, is there a consensus on the best picture settings for HDR gaming on an LG OLED?

Peak brightness, black level, tone mapping, color temp, OLED light etc...?
IIRC the default values for game mode are pretty good for the most part.

I would turn on HGIG under the dynamic tone mapping options on the latest firmware. Color temperature is a matter of personal preference; the normal argument of "use Warm 1 / 2 because that is the standard for film mastering" doesn't apply to games, so use whatever looks best to you.
 

Ferrs

Avenger
Oct 26, 2017
9,318
IIRC the default values for game mode are pretty good for the most part.

I would turn on HGIG under the dynamic tone mapping options on the latest firmware. Color temperature is a matter of personal preference; the normal argument of "use Warm 1 / 2 because that is the standard for film mastering" doesn't apply to games, so use whatever looks best to you.
HGIG is irrelevant for now because no game uses it.
 

BaldwinAce

Member
Oct 28, 2017
335
Actually I'm a dumbass.

The TV seems to have defaulted to HDR Standard when Death Stranding booted, which comes with TruMotion set to Clear. Obviously it looks smoother and with artifacts because it's freaking interpolating frames! Lol
So everything cool in the end? I don't need to be concerned when I go get my B9 tomorrow? Also quick question, do you have the judder settings on "real cinema"? It supposedly removes judder from all sources.
 

tokkun

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,658
HGIG is irrelevant for now because no game uses it.
Enabling HGIG causes the display to do linear tone mapping and clip at the display's peak brightness. I think that is generally the best default, even when the game does not support doing its own tone mapping. This will vary from game to game, and for ones where you care a lot about preserving specular highlight detail, you may prefer Dynamic Tonemapping.
 

Yuuber

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,364
I just bought a C9 and got a cheaper standard LED LG set too as a freebie. Is there anything I need to tweak in the settings for optimal HDR gaming in general?

I have no idea what I'm doing.
 

ppn7

Member
May 4, 2019
183
Do you think next year TV will be better in term of motion interpolation ?

The main issue i saw here and there on Oled is 30 fps contents can be horrendus. And if you use Motion Interpolation you get artifact and big input lag.
On the other hand, Samsung Qleds have nice input lag with Motion interpolation, maybe less artifact than Oled ? But it's not a Oled and you get all the cons from LCD. Except maybe the Q90R but which is sometimes pricer than Oled...