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TV Displays and Tech Thread |OT2| There Is No Perfect TV ™ (Read The OP)

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That Naive Cube!!

That Naive Cube!!

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Oct 25, 2017
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This isnt the audio thread but it's certainly corollary:

is it possible to get a decent Dolby Atmos sound set up (even 2.1) for 500 bucks or less?

My place is pretty small and directly attached so I think a bigger set up will be saved for house # 2. However, I still wanna experience Atmos if I can.
 
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Bumrush

Bumrush

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Oct 25, 2017
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That Naive Cube!! said:
This isnt the audio thread but it's certainly corollary:

is it possible to get a decent Dolby Atmos sound set up (even 2.1) for 500 bucks or less?

My place is pretty small and directly attached so I think a bigger set up will be saved for house # 2. However, I still wanna experience Atmos if I can.
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Honestly, for $500 or less I would recommend foregoing Atmos for now. The good Atmos sound bars are still priced a bit higher than this and a recommended 5.1.2 system will run you much more. I'd recommend starting with a receiver (that can handle 4K / Atmos) and good bookshelf speakers to start, as just that alone sounds significantly better than sound bars in the same price range...plus you can grow off of it in the new place.

My $0.02 but RedlineRonin GearDraxon kvetcha DJ Lushious among others can weigh in with more knowledge and experience.
 
kvetcha

kvetcha

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Bumrush said:
Honestly, for $500 or less I would recommend foregoing Atmos for now. The good Atmos sound bars are still priced a bit higher than this and a recommended 5.1.2 system will run you much more. I'd recommend starting with a receiver (that can handle 4K / Atmos) and good bookshelf speakers to start, as just that alone sounds significantly better than sound bars in the same price range...plus you can grow off of it in the new place.

My $0.02 but RedlineRonin GearDraxon kvetcha DJ Lushious among others can weigh in with more knowledge and experience.
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Better to build up a quality system than to buy the cheapest all-in-one you can get. You'll be a lot happier with the end result.
 
That Naive Cube!!

That Naive Cube!!

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Oct 25, 2017
3,814
Bumrush said:
Honestly, for $500 or less I would recommend foregoing Atmos for now. The good Atmos sound bars are still priced a bit higher than this and a recommended 5.1.2 system will run you much more. I'd recommend starting with a receiver (that can handle 4K / Atmos) and good bookshelf speakers to start, as just that alone sounds significantly better than sound bars in the same price range...plus you can grow off of it in the new place.

My $0.02 but RedlineRonin GearDraxon kvetcha DJ Lushious among others can weigh in with more knowledge and experience.
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Thanks for the timely and in-depth reply!
 

Deleted member 16452

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I was curious about that LG Atmos soundbar that Costco sells for $600 (think its the sk9y?), but reading user reviews put me off.

Seems like you really do need to spend quite a bit more to get a real Atmos experience.
 
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Bumrush

Bumrush

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2Bee said:
I was curious about that LG Atmos soundbar that Costco sells for $600 (think its the sk9y?), but reading user reviews put me off.

Seems like you really do need to spend quite a bit more to get a real Atmos experience.
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The money is DEFINITELY worth it. But, with that said, going from TV speakers / sound bar to quality 2.1 was a bigger improvement than 2.1 to 5.1 or 5.1 to 5.1.2
 
GearDraxon

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Oct 25, 2017
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That Naive Cube!! What Bumrush and kvetcha have said is spot-on: getting a decent 2-channel setup going will give you a large jump in quality, while trying to squeeze a multichannel system into that budget will be tough. In addition, you'll be able to add to the 2-channel system as budget allows, while you'll likely have to toss the all-in-one if you decide to go better, later on.
 
NealMcCauley

NealMcCauley

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Oct 27, 2017
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Downloaded the Oreo update to my 900e via usb. Had to tweak the home screen for a bit before I got it to a nice layout (ie minimal as possible). I heard the update could bork HDR though it seems fine on my set. Only thing I don't like is the HDR icon's still buried in the picture settings menu, and opening that pauses any apps now.

I read that Atmos on Netflix would be added to 900e's, but that must have been a rumor. Still shows up as 5.1.

Vudu on my x800 player was updated recently. It shows uhd features (HDR/Atmos) and rights but doesn't play in uhd. Maybe that'll come in another update. Don't really need it since the 900e's Vudu app can play uhd but it's nice to see.
 
That Naive Cube!!

That Naive Cube!!

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GearDraxon said:
That Naive Cube!! What Bumrush and kvetcha have said is spot-on: getting a decent 2-channel setup going will give you a large jump in quality, while trying to squeeze a multichannel system into that budget will be tough. In addition, you'll be able to add to the 2-channel system as budget allows, while you'll likely have to toss the all-in-one if you decide to go better, later on.
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Thanks for the response. Itll just have to wait until next year
 

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Bumrush said:
The money is DEFINITELY worth it. But, with that said, going from TV speakers / sound bar to quality 2.1 was a bigger improvement than 2.1 to 5.1 or 5.1 to 5.1.2
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Yea, I initially considered that soundbar cause $600 isn't too bad, but it just seems it wont be a huge upgrade over my $250 2016 Samsung soundbar. So it seems you have to go way beyond a soundbar for Atmos.

I'm planning on moving to a bigger place I actually own and not rent next year or the next and that's when I'll go all out with sound.

Might even get a bigger OLED too.
 
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Bumrush

Bumrush

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2Bee said:
Yea, I initially considered that soundbar cause $600 isn't too bad, but it just seems it wont be a huge upgrade over my $250 2016 Samsung soundbar. So it seems you have to go way beyond a soundbar for Atmos.

I'm planning on moving to a bigger place I actually own and not rent next year or the next and that's when I'll go all out with sound.

Might even get a bigger OLED too.
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In two years the 77" will probably be $3500-4000. Insane.
 
nib95

nib95

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Is the YouTube app on the PS4 a tad bit brighter in gamma than other apps, games etc?

When I run this video through YouTube app (0% Black segment) via my TV instead of my PS4, I'm able to go one notch on brightness higher before I lose pure black, than I am with the PS4 version of the app.

Thing is, when I load a pure black screen in the PS4 Web browser, it matches the black level of the YT TV app. So now I'm confused as to whether different apps on the PS4 have different gamma balancing, or if it's just YT that is off (slightly too bright). Don't know whether to calibrate my brightness/gamma on the PS4 to the YT app or to the Web browser.

 
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Smokey

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Oct 25, 2017
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What's the best TV in the 40'' - 50'' range? This will be a secondary TV in my office area, mounted on the wall above with a tilt mount. I was thinking something with Roku TV or Firestick built in, so that I can just plug it in, connect it to wifi, and watch TV when I'm in my office.
 

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Smokey said:
What's the best TV in the 40'' - 50'' range? This will be a secondary TV in my office area, mounted on the wall above with a tilt mount. I was thinking something with Roku TV or Firestick built in, so that I can just plug it in, connect it to wifi, and watch TV when I'm in my office.
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The 49" Sony X900F no contest.
 
Ramune

Ramune

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Feb 3, 2018
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MazeHaze said:
Hey, I can actually help with this! I just bought one of these to use as a bedroom TV, they were only 400 bucks on black friday, it seemed like a no brainer. I have an OLED in the living room and just wanted something of passable quality for upstairs. This is a budget display, which explains the lack of ports. For 400 bucks, I'm happy with it. It has better PQ than I expected honestly. HDR is mostly useless on this set, but it can look OK, it lacks wide color gamut and significant brightness, but it's not awful, just nowhere even in the same dimension as my OLED. Input lag is great in game mode. The smart functions are garbagr, it's riddled with ads and a idiotic TV+ app that is like, streaming weird internet TV channels. You cant remove it, and it auto switches to this app if you turn off your console without turning off the TV. Kind of annoying.

As a bedroom TV? Great display, very affordable and the picture is nice.

As a main display? Hell no for me, but I've been spoiled by OLED and could probably never go back to a budget set.

Edit: Also forgot to mention, the black levels on this TV are great, minimal clouding and blooming too. For an edge-lit set with no local dimming, the contrast is superb imo. Also this TV does NOT have bluetooth, so if you rely on bluetooth headphones or speakers, you'll have to figure something else out.
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I see! I think I'll keep it since according to rtatings it will be fine for what I need (Gaming & PC use), and it's not like I'm going to drive anything above 60fps, since I'm still rocking a GTX 970. Besides my poor ass won't be able to get a OLED anytime soon, so might as well get acquainted with 4K and what not with this for the time being. And your right about the limited ports. I have to remember my 32" was considered THE best of it's kind back then (Consumer Reports especially).

I'll.....just avoid seeing any OLED displays for the time being (only go to Best Buy to pick up my games; part of the problem) until this whole HDMI 2.1 stuff is figured out, and the next gen consoles and what they'd need are revealed.

Thanks for your input though, I could even find a dedicated thread on AVS forums even! (Then again, knowing that forum, 99% can afford nothing but the best....)
 
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DOTDASHDOT

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One1stepahead said:
I understand that you are getting sick of having to constantly mess around with everything, i'm also tired of it. Smooth gradiation of Sony would be nice to have but there are other problems with their TV's.

True, even in game mode with the wide colour gamut you have an image quality that is still fantastic and better than almost all other TV's on the market. Let's not forget about that.

Enjoy your OLED mate!
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Well I've made the decision after much anguish lol, and comparing gradient patterns, I'm sticking to PC Isf for SDR gaming and TV, because at the end of the day, I've been happy with SDR gaming, as most gradients are only slightly worse compared to game non PC, until bloody Ashen.....

It's the black to grey where PC Isf struggles using full RGB, I've obviously been lucky to not have seen much of that for SDR, so to throw the baby out with the bath water over 1 shitty scene is silly, and from a logistical POV I can just keep PC Isf on all the time, for TV and game, then switch it off for HDR stuff, plus 1080p gaming doesn't have any problems with banding anyway.
 
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EvilBoris

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So, CES 19 is just a few weeks away.

What are you hoping to see?

I want to see some HDMI2.1 going on all over the brands, particularly I want good VRR support, lower and higher refresh-rates please.

I'd like to see some 2nd gen Quantum Dot stuff from Samsung , moving from QDEF to QDLCD as that will bring some significant improvements to brightness and create perfect viewing angles to their LCD range.

Or even better, some Quantum Dot OLED from someone, that would give a big boost to peak brightness and colour volume. Apple was rumoured to be looking at it for their displays
 
ascii42

ascii42

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EvilBoris said:
So, CES 19 is just a few weeks away.

What are you hoping to see?

I want to see some HDMI2.1 going on all over the brands, particularly I want good VRR support, lower and higher refresh-rates please.
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Yeah, mostly more VRR support. Also I'd like a built-in ATSC 3.0 tuner so when I get a TV it'll be future proofed in that regard. That one's not as big of a deal because I can always get an external tuner, but it'd save an input.
 
tokkun

tokkun

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EvilBoris said:
So, CES 19 is just a few weeks away.

What are you hoping to see?

I want to see some HDMI2.1 going on all over the brands, particularly I want good VRR support, lower and higher refresh-rates please.

I'd like to see some 2nd gen Quantum Dot stuff from Samsung , moving from QDEF to QDLCD as that will bring some significant improvements to brightness and create perfect viewing angles to their LCD range.

Or even better, some Quantum Dot OLED from someone, that would give a big boost to peak brightness and colour volume. Apple was rumoured to be looking at it for their displays
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Basically I would like to see Sony and LG copy most of the gaming features Samsung added to their sets last year - VRR, low-latency motion interpolation, and 1440p/120 support in particular.

If we can get that stuff, I don't think HDMI 2.1 is very important. There are no source devices available, and even once we have HDMI 2.1 GPUs / consoles, 4K/120 probably won't be worth the tradeoffs.
 
RedlineRonin

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tokkun said:
Basically I would like to see Sony and LG copy most of the gaming features Samsung added to their sets last year - VRR, low-latency motion interpolation, and 1440p/120 support in particular.

If we can get that stuff, I don't think HDMI 2.1 is very important. There are no source devices available, and even once we have HDMI 2.1 GPUs / consoles, 4K/120 probably won't be worth the tradeoffs.
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Mostly agree, but the implementations need to be better.

48hz and above at 4K isn't super useful for a lot of folks.

Neither is VRR down to the 30s if you have to play in 1080/1440p
 
EvilBoris

EvilBoris

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tokkun said:
Basically I would like to see Sony and LG copy most of the gaming features Samsung added to their sets last year - VRR, low-latency motion interpolation, and 1440p/120 support in particular.

If we can get that stuff, I don't think HDMI 2.1 is very important. There are no source devices available, and even once we have HDMI 2.1 GPUs / consoles, 4K/120 probably won't be worth the tradeoffs.
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But as it stands, a game that runs in 4K or even some kind of temporal 4K option can't go above 60fps ever.
As soon as next gen hits there will be another big push for higher franerates, However short lived it will be
Consider that MS could make a bunch of Xbox One X games run on Scarlett at higher framerates/novsync and that will instantly give a bunch of content running above those fixed refresh rates.

Right now we have around 100 60fps games on Xbox One X that are hampered by bandwidth limitations.

Saying no content is available is always a mistake, that was the same with 1080p and 4K and HDR and 8K when they were first shown, announced or released.

Besides, TV manufacturers are constantly looking for new features to have you buy a new TV or disc format, so it will happen.
 
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One1stepahead

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Oct 27, 2017
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DOTDASHDOT said:
Well I've made the decision after much anguish lol, and comparing gradient patterns, I'm sticking to PC Isf for SDR gaming and TV, because at the end of the day, I've been happy with SDR gaming, as most gradients are only slightly worse compared to game non PC, until bloody Ashen.....

It's the black to grey where PC Isf struggles using full RGB, I've obviously been lucky to not have seen much of that for SDR, so to throw the baby out with the bath water over 1 shitty scene is silly, and from a logistical POV I can just keep PC Isf on all the time, for TV and game, then switch it off for HDR stuff, plus 1080p gaming doesn't have any problems with banding anyway.
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I'm not surprised that you changed your mind again. :') Do what you prefer the most! But i have to be honest here, we were both fine with PC mode since we bought the OLED, right?

Until i played RDR 2 and notice the extra awful banding of PC mode in 4K SDR RGB. Now i see it with more games. I just can't go back no more. The wide colour gamut of SDR game mode is less of an issue i think so i stick with that.

PC mode off isf RGB

20181111-072311.jpg


PC mode on isf RGB

20181111-072243.jpg


1a8514bfe3bf0e4875f01f4a21abfc0e.jpg
 
EvilBoris

EvilBoris

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DOTDASHDOT said:
Well I've made the decision after much anguish lol, and comparing gradient patterns, I'm sticking to PC Isf for SDR gaming and TV, because at the end of the day, I've been happy with SDR gaming, as most gradients are only slightly worse compared to game non PC, until bloody Ashen.....

It's the black to grey where PC Isf struggles using full RGB, I've obviously been lucky to not have seen much of that for SDR, so to throw the baby out with the bath water over 1 shitty scene is silly, and from a logistical POV I can just keep PC Isf on all the time, for TV and game, then switch it off for HDR stuff, plus 1080p gaming doesn't have any problems with banding anyway.
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Tried Below yet?

Band ahoy!
 
Mr. Wonderful

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EvilBoris said:
So, CES 19 is just a few weeks away.

What are you hoping to see?
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Oddly enough, a decent refresh of the 40-43" TVs from Samsung and Sony, with some of their premium-mid-range features trickling down to smaller screen sizes.

Other than that, I would like to see a continued progression in the max brightness of OLEDs without software trickery/tweaks to the brightness algorithms. Even a slow progression of even 75-100 nits a year as we approach that 1000 nit milestone would be wonderful progress.
 
Chamber

Chamber

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Oct 25, 2017
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The 77" was going for $30,000 when it launched in 2015, I wouldn't expect that 8K model to be any cheaper starting off. $5,000 from Greentoe in 2024, maybe.
 
EvilBoris

EvilBoris

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Mr. Wonderful said:
Oddly enough, a decent refresh of the 40-43" TVs from Samsung and Sony, with some of their premium-mid-range features trickling down to smaller screen sizes.

Other than that, I would like to see a continued progression in the max brightness of OLEDs without software trickery/tweaks to the brightness algorithms. Even a slow progression of even 75-100 nits a year as we approach that 1000 nit milestone would be wonderful progress.
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Let's hope so, they can push them brighter, but that comes at the expense of reducing the lifetime of the sub pixels (blue pixels being the ones that fail first if voltage is equal)
I'm not sure if anything else has been demonstrated to help with that beyond using a different pixel structure as they do in certain mobile devices.
 
DOTDASHDOT

DOTDASHDOT

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One1stepahead said:
I'm not surprised that you changed your mind again. :') Do what you prefer the most! But i have to be honest here, we were both fine with PC mode since we bought the OLED, right?

Until i played RDR 2 and notice the extra awful banding of PC mode in 4K SDR RGB. Now i see it with more games. I just can't go back no more. The wide colour gamut of SDR game mode is less of an issue i think so i stick with that.

PC mode off isf RGB

20181111-072311.jpg


PC mode on isf RGB

20181111-072243.jpg


1a8514bfe3bf0e4875f01f4a21abfc0e.jpg
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It's another of these 'pick your poison' scenarios isn't it, even though the tweaks I made to game non PC are pretty good, the white balance and overall bluer tone (due to forced wide), is not what my isf is like, and it's mostly because there is no rec709, and I didnt pay for a calibration just to throw it away, but regardless it's still a cracking PQ whatever anyone chooses, but the 4:2:0 lag bug and lack of colour options will likely never be rectified, so we just gotta get on with it I guess.

EvilBoris said:
Tried Below yet?


Band ahoy!
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

No, and i probably never will! Lol.
 
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Chamber

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Are folks still under the impression that microLED is going to be a viable product within the next decade?
 

Deleted member 16452

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Yea, people shouldn't expect anything from microLED aside maybe some 100+ inch prototype that might not even work yet.
 
Samaritan

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One1stepahead said:
I'm not surprised that you changed your mind again. :') Do what you prefer the most! But i have to be honest here, we were both fine with PC mode since we bought the OLED, right?

Until i played RDR 2 and notice the extra awful banding of PC mode in 4K SDR RGB. Now i see it with more games. I just can't go back no more. The wide colour gamut of SDR game mode is less of an issue i think so i stick with that.

PC mode off isf RGB

20181111-072311.jpg


PC mode on isf RGB

20181111-072243.jpg


1a8514bfe3bf0e4875f01f4a21abfc0e.jpg
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Red Dead was precisely the game that did this for me as well. Before playing it, I was aware that banding really bothered some people, but it was one of few visual things that didn't bother me enough to mess with anything... until I played Red Dead in PC mode. Night time in that game is basically unplayable, especially when around bright light sources.
 
tokkun

tokkun

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EvilBoris said:
But as it stands, a game that runs in 4K or even some kind of temporal 4K option can't go above 60fps ever.
As soon as next gen hits there will be another big push for higher franerates, However short lived it will be
Consider that MS could make a bunch of Xbox One X games run on Scarlett at higher framerates/novsync and that will instantly give a bunch of content running above those fixed refresh rates.

Right now we have around 100 60fps games on Xbox One X that are hampered by bandwidth limitations.
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How many console games support 1080p/120 or 1440p/120 now? There are a fair number of TVs that support at least 1080p/120 and the XB1X supports 120 Hz output. But so far no one has really bothered to support 120 fps. People have this "If you build it, they will come" optimism about consoles and 4K/120 that does not really seem to be supported by past behavior.

PC is obviously a different story because you have control over your own graphics settings, but we are still at a point where 4K/120 is not easily achievable in recent games even on high-end cards. If you have to choose between 4K/120 medium detail vs 1440p/120 high detail, the latter is probably going to look better most of the time. Plus we have a push toward real-time ray tracing beginning, which may put 4K/120 further out-of-reach for games that use it. Yeah, I get the argument that you can run some older and less demanding games at 4K/120, but it just doesn't seem like that much of a killer feature compared to 1440p/120 to me.

Saying no content is available is always a mistake, that was the same with 1080p and 4K and HDR and 8K when they were first shown, announced or released.
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If you bought one of the first 4K TVs, by the time there was any reasonable amount of content available, the TV was already pretty outdated.

I totally believe there will eventually be good uses for 4K/120. But if it takes many years to materialize, then having the feature now provides little value.
 
That Naive Cube!!

That Naive Cube!!

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Oct 25, 2017
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Man this C8 remote is a game changer. I didnt even know they made remotes like this. Everyday I'm discovering some new functionality with it.
 
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Bumrush

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Blade Runner 2049 on the C8 with Atmos was such an incredible experience. Holy shit, for a 2 hour 45 min movie, it flies, and you want more at the end. I liked it more at home than I did in the theatre.
 
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