Twitch has a racist problem

SteadFast

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
4,906
Destiny is god

Seriously tho he's a pretty edgy guy and misinformed sometimes but he's one of the few progressives who's willing to put his money where his mouth is. He's trying to drop the edge.
C'mon, you can appreciate any and all effort he may have made in trying to shine a spotlight on parts of the alt-right, but when he himself isn't even considering himself a progressive, and is far more detached from the situation, it feels less like 'putting his money where his mouth is' and more like challenging alt-right personalities to be edgy.

Firstly, I am not your friendly, neighborhood progressive. If your previous view of me was that, erase that from your head right now. I do not care, intrinsically, about minorities, or women, or people, or racism, or anything like that. It is not part of my rhetoric to convince people that these things are morally bad, it is not part of my characters to be inherently concerned with these things. I believe that feminism and equal opportunities for minorities tend to produce better outcomes worldwide. This is why I end up at many of the same positions that progressives end up.

I am repeating this one more time, my internal thought process is not motivated by any pure, morally virtuous desire to help people or make people feel better.
 

Veldin

Member
Oct 25, 2017
475
A person using homophobic language is not necessarily homophobic, though they oftentimes are unintentionally spreading homophobia.

I have never much been concerned with the words themselves, but rather the thoughts/ideas they can spread.
These two statements are the crux of Destiny's argument and they're extremely frustrating. The idea that you can separate the usage of slurs from their meaning and say them without the bigoted intent lines up with the same sort of white privilege he's railed against in past debates. Him and his close friends aren't racist/homophobic/etc, so it's fine to use these slurs because there's no apparent harm being done. It's such a weak justification. Slurs were created by bigots to put down the minority groups they're tied to, and to act like you can disregard their meaning in private because you and your buddies have all agreed to it is incredibly self-serving. You can't change the intent those words have, they've always had them. If you actually cared about not spreading bigotry, then erasing those slurs from your vocabulary and suggesting your friends and viewers to do the same would logically align with your values. It just seems like Destiny values the catharsis of using edgy language more than anything else so long as he can pretend there's no negative impact. I hope someday he looks back and wonders why the fuck he cared so much about defending slurs.
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,284
There's a lot of utter stupidity in that post, but I just want to single two things out:

First: "Community/culture". I've been in the gaming community for decades and I've never fallen into a trap of repeatedly making racist and offensive jokes to the point where I can't stop myself and occasionally "slip up". What a bizarre attempt to rationalize one's actions.

Secondly, this dumbass sentence: "I have never much been concerned with the words themselves, but rather the thoughts/ideas they can spread."

What the hell are words other than the means of expressing thoughts and ideas?

What a dumb, selfish person.
 

L Thammy

Spacenoid
Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,780
Quote him saying the latter? Everything I know about him has led me to believe he's gotten progressively less edgy over the years and he's seemingly still working on it?
See here.

Do I say offensive jokes privately that I would never say on stream? You better believe it. But why, what's the difference?

I have never much been concerned with the words themselves, but rather the thoughts/ideas they can spread.

A community that openly uses the word "faggot" probably feels unwelcoming because there are still a lot of gamers (and, larger, elements of society) that still act incredibly homophobic. If a friend of mine uses "faggot" in some insulting way in a private setting, I don't generally think twice about them saying it. If a stranger uses that word, I'm very uncomfortable around them because I don't know if they're actually a homophobic person.

These distinctions may be meaningless to you, and to some extent you can argue that using racial/homophobic slurs in ANY context should be off limits, and I'm fine with tackling those arguments. I generally don't like being called "racist" or "homophobic" because I believe my body of work (can u call a utube channel that tho) speaks for itself, but if you believe that my actions help to spread homophobic thought, maybe you don't care to make the distinction.
 

excelsiorlef

Member
Oct 25, 2017
36,266
Quote him saying the latter? Everything I know about him has led me to believe he's gotten progressively less edgy over the years and he's seemingly still working on it?
He quite literally said he won't stop using the words?

I know you didn't read what he actually said (after all you called him a progressive) but come on/
 

Deleted member 8777

User Requested Account Closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
1,260
C'mon, you can appreciate any and all effort he may have made in trying to shine a spotlight on parts of the alt-right, but when he himself isn't even considering himself a progressive, and is far more detached from the situation, it feels less like 'putting his money where his mouth is' and more like challenging alt-right personalities to be edgy.
He doesn't just shit on the alt right, he pretty much goes after conservatism and religiosity in general. Any and all ideas that argue specific groups of humans are inherently inadequate compared to others. He was just debating some insane christian guy named Darth Dawkins.
 

Kilic95

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,376
Chireiden
Now it all makes sense. I was always skeptical of Destiny, since he likes to casually throw the R-word around in many of his streams.

Of course he would defend slurs.
 

Neonep

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,250
This rarely gets pointed out
Yeah. Just look around most of gaming comprises of caucasians in the US. Most of the prominent media are caucasian males and a small handful of caucasian women. Most of the prominent figures in gaming such as the guys that will be on stage at E3 are white males. It may be hard to notice or see these things when everybody looks like you. It's also harder to understand racism when you either haven't experienced it, doesn't affect you, and/or your only exposure to it is through either stories you are detached from or stories that happened a long time ago and in your mind you may dismiss it a bit today because you think the world is better than it actually is.
 

Overdoziz

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,601
User banned (1 week) - defending homophobic slurs is not acceptable.
Destiny has been pretty open about the way he views those types of words. His ban is stupid if you ask me. He made a good post laying out his view on it and even if you don't agree with it I don't see why that deserves a permaban.
 

excelsiorlef

Member
Oct 25, 2017
36,266
Destiny has been pretty open about the way he views those types of words. His ban is stupid if you ask me. He made a good post laying out his view on it and even if you don't agree with it I don't see why that deserves a permaban.
Yes a good post that opened with i don't care about minorities nor do I actually care about stopping bigots from being bigots nor do I care about saying that being racist is actually wrong.
 

Deleted member 8777

User Requested Account Closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
1,260
Yes a good post that opened with i don't care about minorities nor do I actually care about stopping bigots from being bigots nor do I care about saying that being racist is actually wrong.
No offence to you but I feel like you don't know much about Destiny. Being completely apathetic is kind of part of his shtick. Watch his vegan debate if you actually care about finding more about him.
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,516
Yes a good post that opened with i don't care about minorities nor do I actually care about stopping bigots from being bigots nor do I care about saying that being racist is actually wrong.
Don't forget about ''I don't care if you think using hateful slurs is bad, I'm going to keep using it anyway because I don't think the way I use them is as bad as when others use them somehow''.
 

CenturionNami

Member
Nov 2, 2017
2,129
Destiny is a bigot. Simple as that. Just because he's a fair weather ally of the left, dosen't mean he should be immune to criticism. He's homophobic too.
 

Overdoziz

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,601
Yes a good post that opened with i don't care about minorities nor do I actually care about stopping bigots from being bigots nor do I care about saying that being racist is actually wrong.
How is having a discussion with him about it not a good thing? I don't really see how him posting on here in an honest way is bad for this forum.
 

excelsiorlef

Member
Oct 25, 2017
36,266
No offence to you but I feel like you don't know much about Destiny. Being completely apathetic is kind of part of his shtick. Watch his vegan debate if you actually care about finding more about him.
Imagine defending him by saying oh it's just his shtick to say shit like I don't care about minorities.

God the Devil gets the worst pro-bono work.
 

excelsiorlef

Member
Oct 25, 2017
36,266
How is having a discussion with him about it not a good thing? I don't really see how him posting on here in an honest way is bad for this forum.
How is giving a platform for people to argue that slurs are aok a good thing?

Not everything must be debated and for some things in fact letting them be debated normalizes bad shit...
 

fuzzylogic

Member
Oct 26, 2017
176
Destiny,

I swear I've heard you self-characterize as a borderline misanthrope. Yet, you recently had a discussion about abortion with TheMedsPeds on your stream. In that debate you repeatedly express your discomfort with ending the life of a zygote or fetus. Yet, you just posted here you don't intrinsically care about "minorities, or women, or people, or racism..." So, you're able to care about fetuses, but not extant people in a minority group?

In the arena of your self-identity as a misanthrope, I'm not sure you know yourself as much as you think you do--perhaps?

I think you're redeemable (not that you'd care about my standards of what constitutes being redeemable; sorry, not sorry). On the other hand, I don't really know you, so whatever. Your ban here is justified.

P.S. Saying slurs in private does not do nothing. It builds little habits and go-to neural pathways in your head that can negatively influence you in other areas of your life. We are creatures of habit and regularly return to established ways of thinking, so nothing we do at any time can ever be wholly benign.
 

Deleted member 8777

User Requested Account Closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
1,260
User Banned (1 Month): Banned for this post and others in the thread. Downplaying use of racial and homophobic slurs. Junior Account.
Imagine defending him by saying oh it's just his shtick to say shit like I don't care about minorities.

God the Devil gets the worst pro-bono work.
Maybe it's a shtick maybe it's his genuine belief. The point is in the end he reached the consensus that holding progressive views socially and economically is the best way to move forwards as a society. Is he a selfish prick? Sure. But he's not especially malicious or evil. I don't see how anything he does harms anyone.
 

excelsiorlef

Member
Oct 25, 2017
36,266
Maybe it's a shtick maybe it's his genuine belief. The point is in the end he reached the consensus that holding progressive views socially and economically is the best way to move forwards as a society. Is he a selfish prick? Sure. But he's not especially malicious or evil. I don't see how anything he does harms anyone.
He literally said don't call me progressive. You're arguing shit even he wants you not to.

He came here to defend using horrific bigoted language because it's fun to him. That harms. He came here to let minorities know he doesn't care about us, that harms.

But whatever you think he's a god so nothing I can say will convince he's a man and not a very great one.
 

Overdoziz

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,601
How is giving a platform for people to argue that slurs are aok a good thing?

Not everything must be debated and for some things in fact letting them be debated normalizes bad shit...
ERA is hardly a platform that will have an significant impact on much of anything but its users. I've enjoyed Destiny's discussions (if you can call them that) on Twitch over the years and I think he'd be a great addition to this place even if you don't agree with him. No need to stick your heads in the sand.
 

excelsiorlef

Member
Oct 25, 2017
36,266
ERA is hardly a platform that will have an significant impact on much of anything but its users. I've enjoyed Destiny's discussions (if you can call them that) on Twitch over the years and I think he'd be a great addition to this place even if you don't agree with him. No need to stick your heads in the sand.
Yes and Destiny's presence impacts Era' minority population.

Though much like him I'm guessing you don't actually care about us.
 

Overdoziz

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,601
Yes and Destiny's presence impacts Era' minority population.

Though much like him I'm guessing you don't actually care about us.
I don't agree with his take on slurs, especially since he uses them when he's simply angry about something on stream and not much else. I still don't think his opinion on it is worth a ban, though. Suppose I don't have much else to say about ti so I'll leave it here.
 

excelsiorlef

Member
Oct 25, 2017
36,266
I don't agree with his take on slurs, especially since he uses them when he's simply angry about something on stream and not much else. I still don't think his opinion on it is worth a ban, though. Suppose I don't have much else to say about ti so I'll leave it here.
It's honestly worse that you're defending want him around to defend slurs when you don't even agree with it...

Thanks for ignoring my point about how this shit hurts Era's minority population though.
 

Joey Ravn

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,572
No offence to you but I feel like you don't know much about Destiny. Being completely apathetic is kind of part of his shtick. Watch his vegan debate if you actually care about finding more about him.
You're right about something: I don't know much about Destiny. So I'll take him at face value when he says he doesn't care about women and minorities, and when he says he doesn't consider homophobic or racist to use homophobic or racist slurs. Wow, so progressive. A "god" indeed /s
 

L Thammy

Spacenoid
Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,780
"I disapprove of the words that you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say them without criticism or consequence." - Andrew Jackson
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,284
No offence to you but I feel like you don't know much about Destiny. Being completely apathetic is kind of part of his shtick. Watch his vegan debate if you actually care about finding more about him.
I feel like this is the Jordan Peterson defense where you are asking us to watch a 2 hour plus "debate" to know more about him, or to contextualize the statements in his banned post where he continues to defend the use of slurs, how words have no meaning, and that he doesn't care about minorities and women and racism.
 

Deleted member 8777

User Requested Account Closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
1,260
You're right about something: I don't know much about Destiny. So I'll take him at face value when he says he doesn't care about women and minorities, and when he says he doesn't consider homophobic or racist to use homophobic or racist slurs. Wow, so progressive. A "god" indeed /s
Please watch his debates with JonTron or the dailystormer dumbfuck and tell me you still feel about him the way you do. Genuinely tell me you don't feel like this guy is a pretty decent human being with some flaws.
 

BowieZ

Member
Nov 7, 2017
2,303
Destiny’s Discord also happens to be overrun by bullies who share sympathy for far-right/alt-right racial supremacists.

Dude is totally wasting his potential.
 

excelsiorlef

Member
Oct 25, 2017
36,266
Please watch his debates with JonTron or the dailystormer dumbfuck and tell me you still feel about him the way you do. Genuinely tell me you don't feel like this guy is a pretty decent human being with some flaws.
Yes the flaws of being cool with bigoted slurs and literally not caring about minorities and women.

My god he's not going anywhere. He'll still do his little videos, the ones he says aren't even about trying to stop racism or convince the racist not to be racist.... great. He;s just not welcome here to defend bigoted language and tell minorities he doesn't care about us
 

Deleted member 8777

User Requested Account Closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
1,260
I feel like this is the Jordan Peterson defense where you are asking us to watch a 2 hour plus "debate" to know more about him, or to contextualize the statements in his banned post where he continues to defend the use of slurs, how words have no meaning, and that he doesn't care about minorities and women and racism.
For one Jordan Peterson has never actually debated anyone who opposes him and even then his "debates" will just reaffirm your belief that he's a conservative asshole. In destiny's case it's a lot more clear where he stands and what he believes. I just feel like it'd be better coming from the horse's mouth because that's him at his most genuine.
 

Shark

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,853
Raleigh, NC

excelsiorlef

Member
Oct 25, 2017
36,266
For one Jordan Peterson has never actually debated anyone who opposes him and even then his "debates" will just reaffirm your belief that he's a conservative asshole. In destiny's case it's a lot more clear where he stands and what he believes. I just feel like it'd be better coming from the horse's mouth because that's him at his most genuine.
We got what was coming from the horse's mouth: "I'm not progressive, i don't care about minorities, I don't care about convincing people not to be bigoted, I won't stop using slurs, "
 

Rats

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,067
Destiny’s Discord also happens to be overrun by bullies who share sympathy for far-right/alt-right racial supremacists.

Dude is totally wasting his potential.
Yep. It felt like he was making really good progress for a while. Ever since the Twitter ban he's been on a bit of a downward spiral.
 

L Thammy

Spacenoid
Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,780
For one Jordan Peterson has never actually debated anyone who opposes him and even then his "debates" will just reaffirm your belief that he's a conservative asshole. In destiny's case it's a lot more clear where he stands and what he believes. I just feel like it'd be better coming from the horse's mouth because that's him at his most genuine.
If you want it straight from the horse's mouth, then when are you ignoring what he specifically told people directly in his thread, specifically highlighting the people who have been calling him progressive?

You asked earlier for proof that he said he wasn't going to change. That was given to you, so why are you ignoring that as well?
 

Mewn

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
1,802
UK
Didn't know much about Destiny beyond his debating Jontron, thought he might be decent. Unsurprised to learn he isn't.
 

Poodlestrike

There is much talk, and I have listened...
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
4,433
If your fav is a streamer, and hasn't had something like this come out about them yet, start building mental distance now. This shit is endemic.

And if your fav has had something like this come out about them and you're still out there stanning just fuckin' delete your account lmao.
 

Chrome

Member
Oct 25, 2017
378
Destiny’s Discord also happens to be overrun by bullies who share sympathy for far-right/alt-right racial supremacists.

Dude is totally wasting his potential.
lol it looks like you've been banned for a few months but man I wish you could see what the place is like now!
 

SteadFast

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
4,906
Reading back on a few of the opinions on here, and there is a consensus amongst a few that he shouldn't have been permabanned for his post - the reasoning repeatedly being he is a vocal figure of arguing against right-wing extremists and their views, and that his major encounter with this site resulting in a ban harms our perceived "progressive" image to people outside this forum.

So fucking what? If I made a post as inflammatory as his about my choice of offensive terms and words, I know full well the ban on me would be swift. It'd be doubly as severe if I were using the same post to denounce any involvement in sympathising with minorities I'm offending with the use of such language, and further still reiterating that I am not going to change my ways.

Why oh fucking why is one so closed-minded like that to be given a special exemption purely because he has an online presence?
 

Sei

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,348
LA
I don't care what people do in private.

But people that use homophobic or racist slurs in public just "as a joke" or "for impact", are just as bad as real racists or homophobes.

Because the victims are not invested in learning everyone's history and humor. To the affected, the impact of the words they see thrown at them is just the same, no matter who it's coming from.

I saw this happen recently, when Scarlett, a transgendered SC2 player, was competing in the recent GSL vs The World tournament. As soon as she was shown on camera, there was hundreds of slurs in chat. Hundreds, all through out the time she was playing. Just non stop, disgusting jokes.

And there were some real hate messages in there too.

Imagine her coming back to watch the VOD of the stream, and seeing that. You think she's going to tell the difference between the ones joking around and the real hate mongers?

That really made me fucking sad at the state of "gamers" on Twitch.
 
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Veldin

Member
Oct 25, 2017
475
For what it's worth I'll probably still watch Destiny's debates, but it's very disappointing that he still hasn't budged on the use of slurs. It's one of the things that always bothered me about him and his comments here show he still has a pretty callous stance.
 

Deleted member 11934

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,045
Has someone pointed out that racism is just one of the problems of Twitch? Harassment is a pervasive culture there akin to the famous college rape culture. Doxxing, hate speech of all kinds including fascism and nazism, shock stuff being posted. The list is long af.

I'm also perplexed that someone could state that throwing bigot slurs "just happens". I use a lot of slurs (by myself), but I will usually offend the gods, not people. How fucking hard is it?
 

conman

Member
Oct 27, 2017
184
Until the tech industry stops committing to libertarian idealism (a deregulated, "content neutral" internet), the internet will continue be dominated by racist, sexist, homophobic hatemongers and bullies.
 

RooMHM

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
277
Nobody is downplaying global racism(which is obviously rampant)but we are currently discussing a problem that is about how engrained racism is here(Twitch). It's a classic example how the issue at hand can never be fully addressed here because;"it's going on abc elsewhere too!" It's fascinating that that is the knee jerk reaction that some of you have. Quick to defend, deflect, and deny at home first. Let's not even get into the bigger picture yet. Baby steps...
Not downplaying anything. The guy I wasandwering to alluded to it being linked to western civilization. Its is not. It's a human problem.
 

Mahonay

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,214
Lancaster, PA
No shit.
If your fav is a streamer, and hasn't had something like this come out about them yet, start building mental distance now. This shit is endemic.

And if your fav has had something like this come out about them and you're still out there stanning just fuckin' delete your account lmao.
Vinesauce is pure and holy. He’s the one Twitch streamer I’m invested in, amongst a sea of shitbags.

I’d be honestly shocked if something horrible came out about him.