Twitch has a racist problem

[Seeya]

No, there's a repeated theme of him not valuing diversity, and he's used that as a lead in his post in this very thread. It's not something he values because it's not something he values.

Click to shrink...

"I believe that feminism and equal opportunities for minorities tend to produce better outcomes worldwide. This is why I end up at many of the same positions that progressives end up."

He states that he values diversity because it generally leads to the best outcomes for society as a whole for the same reasons that he is against anti feminism, racism, inequality of any kind etc. He values things as tools to greater goods and is against things like racism and bigeotry as 'asinine and idiotic' viewpoints specifically because they are impediments to such.

 

[CandySTX]

This whole "edgy banter between friends" thing is infuriating. It's just practice. Allowing bigoted thoughts and labels to be permissible in a comfortable setting.
As mentioned above, if that's someone's go to for friendly chat, then they need to take a long hard look at themselves.

 

[Страна Мечты]

Twitch is overrun by incels and alt-right brogamers, it's almost as bad as NeoGAF and Reddit are.

Firstly, I am not your friendly, neighborhood progressive.

Click to shrink...

Bye_bitch.gif

 

[Icemonk191]

The lengths people will go to defend their right to say hateful words will never cease to amaze me.

 

[L Thammy]

He states that he values diversity because it generally leads to the best outcomes for society as a whole for the same reasons that he is against anti feminism, racism, inequality of any kind etc. He values things as tools to greater goods and is against things like racism and bigeotry as 'asinine and idiotic' viewpoints.

Click to shrink...

That isn't rational, that's dehumanizing. Minorities shouldn't have to fit into people's agenda in order for people to care about them. Minorities are human, and they deserve to be valued for that reason alone. There's a certain level of basic human dignity.

He repeatedly says he doesn't value diversity because he's telling you what his values are. He outright says he doesn't care in the post he made in this thread. I'm willing to believe it, because it's a heinous thing to say.

 

[Deleted member 22713]

He states that he values diversity because it generally leads to the best outcomes for society as a whole for the same reasons that he is against anti feminism, racism, inequality etc. He values things as tools to greater goods and is against things like racism as 'asinine and idiotic' viewpoints.

Click to shrink...

What good is that if he doesn't apply that empty rhetoric to himself or care about the people who are part of the groups he represents as "tools"? To stroke his ego? And just a reminder:
https://www.resetera.com/posts/11099812/

Firstly, I am not your friendly, neighborhood progressive. If your previous view of me was that, erase that from your head right now. I do not care, intrinsically, about minorities, or women, or people, or racism, or anything like that. It is not part of my rhetoric to convince people that these things are morally bad, it is not part of my characters to be inherently concerned with these things. I believe that feminism and equal opportunities for minorities tend to produce better outcomes worldwide. This is why I end up at many of the same positions that progressives end up.

I am repeating this one more time, my internal thought process is not motivated by any pure, morally virtuous desire to help people or make people feel better.

Click to shrink...

His argument is fucking nonsense.

 

[Deleted member 888]

for greater context to his words he linked his blog post on the issue, he believes that words/jokes are ok in a private setting if you know that the people involved are not taking/using those words to further racist thought. That's a pretty specific circumstance and I'm not sure I agree with it fully since a lot of racism can end up being subconscious, but I can understand his underlying logic at play.

Click to shrink...

Look, if you're a streamer/public figure at least make the minescule effort to clean yourself up to some reasonable standards before broadcasting yourself to the world. It's not much to ask. Do whatever the fuck you want in private or with your "5 close gay friends who all say f*ggot and tell you too as well". Great, what you do in private is totally up to yourself and the boundaries of your friends. Although many will still say have some self-respect.

Anyway it appears Destiny made some arguments about "ethical" incest and child porn, so you know, the contrarian arguments about saying n*igger and f*ggot during streams and on YouTube seem to be part of a bigger problem with him when trying to prove his "decency credentials".

The internet isn't a private friends club and if you release your thoughts and behaviours into a public realm you'll be examined. Especially if you're someone who has some sort of following or presence. People can make mistakes but many just double down and stamp their feet when it's pointed out the public realm isn't you sitting in a room with a few of your mates.

 

[Quacktion]

Miiverse was the best social network ever.

Click to shrink...

I really miss it. One of the best ideas Nintendo had.

 

[excelsiorlef]

He arrives at his conclusions through a rational lense rather than an intuitively empathic one. This then becomes a conversation on valuing the end results or the process of getting there. He's not advocating his value system be adopted into society as a whole though so worries about whatever implications it might have seem unfounded even if you or I disagree with some of it. In this context I feel that it's quite easy to value the end result that on balance he does far more good and is generally a very inclusive person who advocates for positive things quite unanimously.

Click to shrink...

As always I remind you the devil has the world's greatest lawyers on retainer and doesn't need pro bono work.

Dude doesn't need defending.

 

[Shark]

I do not care, intrinsically, about minorities, or women, or people, or racism, or anything like that.

Click to shrink...

You could have just saved yourself some time and stopped there. It said everything.

 

[TrueSloth]

I dont think it was necessary to ban Destiny quite yet. It would have been productive to maybe have users discuss more about why saying hateful language in private is a problem, and maybe he could open his mind up to reconsidering. But now we shut him out.

 

[esserius]

If this is one of the 'better' examples of a Twitch streamer I don't really want to see the worst.

Click to shrink...

Yeah. Difficult to fathom the kind of personality that can't imagine helping people if it doesn't benefit them in some way.

 

[JackDT]

I do not care, intrinsically, about minorities, or women, or people, or racism, or anything like that. It is not part of my rhetoric to convince people that these things are morally bad, it is not part of my characters to be inherently concerned with these things. I believe that feminism and equal opportunities for minorities tend to produce better outcomes worldwide. This is why I end up at many of the same positions that progressives end up.

Click to shrink...

I think it's useful to be clear about the scope of the claim Destiny is making here. It's much more broad than most of this discussion!

1) Destiny would make the same claim about murder -- it's not intrinsically morally bad. Murder just tends to product worse outcomes. Correct?

2) If Destiny decided to commit suicide one minute from now, Destiny was thirsty, and Destiny could push a button that would kill everyone on Earth but give him one can of Coke... Destiny would not be convinced by any moral argument that he shouldn't push that button and drink a refreshing Coke before he ended his life.

3) (Uncertain about this one) Destiny believes statements like 2 + 2 = 4 are useful and produce better outcomes... but there is nothing intrinsically or objectively true even about this claim.

All of this is useful context for when Destiny says he can't claim something is morally wrong.

 

[excelsiorlef]

"I believe that feminism and equal opportunities for minorities tend to produce better outcomes worldwide. This is why I end up at many of the same positions that progressives end up."

He states that he values diversity because it generally leads to the best outcomes for society as a whole for the same reasons that he is against anti feminism, racism, inequality of any kind etc. He values things as tools to greater goods and is against things like racism and bigeotry as 'asinine and idiotic' viewpoints specifically because they are impediments to such.

Click to shrink...

Gee thanks for framing his I don't care about minorities I just care about how they can be tools as some positive.

 

[failgubbe]

Racism and gamers. Name a more iconic duo

 

[excelsiorlef]

What good is that if he doesn't apply that empty rhetoric to himself or care about the people who are part of the groups he represents as "tools"? To stroke his ego? And just a reminder:
https://www.resetera.com/posts/11099812/


His argument is fucking nonsense.

Click to shrink...

Yep

Basically he's admitting if research said white supremacy makes for a strong "economy" he'd be a white supremacist.

 

[Deleted member 888]

I think it's useful to be clear about the scope of the claim Destiny is making here. It's much more broad than most of this discussion!

1) Destiny would make the same claim about murder -- it's not intrinsically morally bad. Murder just tends to product worse outcomes. Correct?

2) If Destiny decided to commit suicide one minute from now, Destiny was thirsty, and Destiny could push a button that would kill everyone on Earth but give him one can of Coke... Destiny would not be convinced by any moral argument that he shouldn't push that button and drink a refreshing Coke before he ended his life.

3) (Uncertain about this one) Destiny believes statements like 2 + 2 = 4 are useful and produce better outcomes... but there is nothing intrinsically or objectively true even about this claim.

All of this is useful context for when Destiny says he can't claim something is morally wrong.

Click to shrink...

This ain't a philosophy class and most of that garbled speak isn't some high-tier "enter the matrix" level of discussion.

There's better "hills to die on" if you want a lazy Sunday "what actually is morality?" debate.

 

[Seeya]

Look, if you're a streamer/public figure at least make the minescule effort to clean yourself up to some reasonable standards before broadcasting yourself to the world. It's not much to ask. Do whatever the fuck you want in private or with your "5 close gay friends who all say f*ggot and tell you too as well". Great, what you do in private is totally up to yourself and the boundaries of your friends. Although many will still say have some self-respect.

Anyway it appears Destiny made some arguments about "ethical" incest and child porn, so you know, the contrarian arguments about saying n*igger and f*ggot during streams and on YouTube seem to be part of a bigger problem with him trying to prove his "decency credentials".

Click to shrink...

1. He talks specifically about doing just that and why he as a public figure considers how his platform effects others very seriously. He's also said 'sometimes you slip up but it's something he's working on', so there's no need to really rebut with 'but he used X word!' here as it has already been addressed.

2. He argued (correctly) in a debate setting in the position there of that incest was not an inherent wrong. That it was morally or ethically a right or a wrong based on situational context, not the act itself. Don't misconstrue the arguement like the alt right limes to push.

Pedophillia: the subject came about when studies suggested that Pedophiles who had access to pedophillac pornography showed less warning signs for reoffending.

He argued that if it was shown that Pedophiles were less likely to reoffend if given access to already existing pedophillic materials that they should be given those tools in a monitored setting as it would pragmatically reduce overall new instances of abuse. Again, don't twist the arguement like the alt right does.

 

[excelsiorlef]

I dont think it was necessary to ban Destiny quite yet. It would have been productive to maybe have users discuss more about why saying hateful language in private is a problem, and maybe he could open his mind up to reconsidering. But now we shut him out.

Click to shrink...

Dude when he literally says he doesn't care and won't change.... he;s not going to suddenly care and change because of a bunch of people on a forum he has no connection to waste their time pleasing with him to get a fucking clue.Minorities here can't even convince every day posters to change most of the time let alone some gaming celeb who is starting from the POV of I'm fine and nothing you can say will change me.

 

[Deleted member 2834]

Anyway it appears Destiny made some arguments about "ethical" incest and child porn, so you know, the contrarian arguments about saying n*igger and f*ggot during streams and on YouTube seem to be part of a bigger problem with him when trying to prove his "decency credentials".

Click to shrink...

C'mon man, the ethical CP and incest shit are always used against him by right wingers who've not seen the according debates. Let's not be like them, and stick to what he actually said in this thread, which I agree is problematic enough.

 

[Seeya]

Gee thanks for framing his I don't care about minorities I just care about how they can be tools as some positive.

Click to shrink...

This really becomes a conversation about end results and processes. I don't think that ahyper rational approach is necessarily better than an empathetic one because hyper rationalism can easily abused used to justify darker emotional impulses, but he's not advocating that his value system be adopted by society as a whole.

 

[excelsiorlef]

1. He talks specifically about doing just that and why he as a public figure considers how his platform effects others very seriously. He's also said 'sometimes you slip up but it's something he's working on', so there's no need to really rebut with 'but he used X word!' here as it has already been addressed.

2. He argued (correctly) in a debate setting in the position there of that incest was not an inherent wrong. That it was morally or ethically a right or a wrong based on situational context, not the act itself. Don't misconstrue the arguement like the alt right limes to push.

Pedophillia: the subject came about when studies suggested that Pedophiles who had access to pedophillac pornography showed less warning signs for reoffending.

He argued that if it was shown that Pedophiles were less likely to reoffend if given access to already existing pedophillic materials that they should be given those tools in a monitored setting as it would pragmatically reduce overall new instances of abuse. Again, don't twist the arguement like the alt right does.

Click to shrink...

He's not going to take you to prom dude.

 

[Deleted member 888]

1. He talks specifically about doing just that and why he as a public figure considers how his platform effects others very seriously. He's also said 'sometimes you slip up but it's something he's working on', so there's no need to really rebut with 'but he used X word!' here as it has already been addressed.

2. He argued (correctly) in a debate setting in the position there of that incest was not an inherent wrong. That it was morally or ethically a right or a wrong based on situational context, not the act itself. Don't misconstrue the arguement like the alt right limes to push.

Pedophillia: the subject came about when studies suggested that Pedophiles who had access to pedophillac pornography showed less warning signs for reoffending.

He argued that if it was shown that Pedophiles were less likely to reoffend if given access to already existing pedophillic materials that they should be given those tools in a monitored setting as it would pragmatically reduce overall new instances of abuse. Again, don't twist the arguement like the alt right does.

Click to shrink...

C'mon man, the ethical CP and incest shit are always used against him by right wingers who've not seen the according debates. Let's not be like them, and stick to what he actually said in this thread, which I agree is problematic enough.

Click to shrink...

Are the debates what Seeya said above?

Because I think you'll find most professionals and people who actually do have to handle paedophiles do not advocate for continuing to show them child porn if it helps them not re-offend.

I don't give a shit if you're right-wing or not, that is not a healthy stance to take and if it's his stance I'll call it out. It seems to be part of his contrarian ability to try and take pretty shitty things/stances and argue there is "nuance" in them.

Feel free to watch this - https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00k3ms6

edit: His own subreddit has these topics, it's where I found them

https://www.reddit.com/r/Destiny/comments/7n7ejz/why_destiny_advocates_for_child_porn/

https://www.reddit.com/r/Destiny/comments/8yhdj4/did_destiny_clarify_his_stance_on_legalizing/

 

[Rats]

I think it's useful to be clear about the scope of the claim Destiny is making here. It's much more broad than most of this discussion!

1) Destiny would make the same claim about murder -- it's not intrinsically morally bad. Murder just tends to product worse outcomes. Correct?

2) If Destiny decided to commit suicide one minute from now, Destiny was thirsty, and Destiny could push a button that would kill everyone on Earth but give him one can of Coke... Destiny would not be convinced by any moral argument that he shouldn't push that button and drink a refreshing Coke before he ended his life.

3) (Uncertain about this one) Destiny believes statements like 2 + 2 = 4 are useful and produce better outcomes... but there is nothing intrinsically or objectively true even about this claim.

All of this is useful context for when Destiny says he can't claim something is morally wrong.

Click to shrink...

I'm pretty familiar with his philosophy and he would absolutely agree with number one. I don't know about 2, his concern for good outcomes is based on self-interest. I'm not sure if I've heard him field a question like this. He would probably disagree with 3 because it is based on easily observable physical properties, and he doesn't engage with "can we trust our senses" stuff that much.

Not saying I agree with his philosophy to any large extent, but I've heard him have a lot of discussions about it.

 

[excelsiorlef]

This really becomes a conversation about end results and processes. I don't think that ahyper rational approach is necessarily better than an empathetic one because hyper rationalism can easily abused used to justify darker emotional impulses, but he's not advocating that his value system be adopted by society as a whole.

Click to shrink...

We're human beings brother not some nebulous concept you can wax philosophically about.

One can care about minorities.... or they can get fucked.

And legit maybe you should stop because listening to you right now it almost feels like Destiny was never banned.

 

[saenima]

What a crock of shit that post was. Glad the mods were on top of it. These are our 'allies'.

 

[L Thammy]

I dont think it was necessary to ban Destiny quite yet. It would have been productive to maybe have users discuss more about why saying hateful language in private is a problem, and maybe he could open his mind up to reconsidering. But now we shut him out.

Click to shrink...

I understand the sentiment, but is it something you'd also want to see from people who aren't public figures? If some no-name with two posts tells you that they don't care about minorities and it's okay if they use slurs as long as no one is watching, is that equally acceptable?

Besides the fact that he's made it quite clear what his values and motivations are, I think it would be a bad look for the forum to treat celebrities any lighter.

 

[Arkeband]

It's a little disappointing that, given the amount of time and energy Destiny puts in confronting exceedingly influential alt-right internet personalities and communities, that this is what happens when he interacts with this community.

 

[TrueSloth]

I understand the sentiment, but is it something you'd also want to see from people who aren't public figures? If some no-name with two posts tells you that they don't care about minorities and it's okay if they use slurs as long as no one is watching, is that equally acceptable?

Besides the fact that he's made it quite clear what his values and motivations are, I think it would be a bad look for the forum to treat celebrities any lighter.

Click to shrink...

I'm not suggesting to treat him lighter because he is an online celebrity. I think he's proven on more than one occasion he'll change his stance on things despite saying otherwise. If a regular user has shown they will change their stance to be generally more accepting or supportive, I think its worth having them talk it out.

I guess it doesnt really matter since he wasnt much of a poster here, but still.

 

[L Thammy]

I'm not suggesting to treat him lighter because he is an online celebrity. I think he's proven on more than one occasion he'll change his stance on things despite saying otherwise. If a regular user has shown they will change their stance to be generally more accepting or supportive, I think its worth having them talk it out.

Click to shrink...

Perhaps you're not directly suggesting to treat him lightly because he's a celebrity, but would you have those ideas if he was any other user that had posted seventeen times since 2017, or are you only able to have those ideas of what his personality is like because he's a celebrity?

 

[TrueSloth]

Perhaps you're not directly suggesting to treat him lightly because he's a celebrity, but would you have those ideas if he was any other user that had posted seventeen times since 2017, or are you only able to have those ideas of what his personality is like because he's a celebrity?

Click to shrink...

I think its less about how someone gets their beliefs out there and more about the fact that its out there, because its all recorded on the internet.
I want it known that I disagree very much with what he said, I just think people are capable of change if they have proven they are. Destiny is an asshole, and egotistical, but his ideas do help people accept more progressive beliefs.

 

[Seeya]

Perhaps you're not directly suggesting to treat him lightly because he's a celebrity, but would you have those ideas if he was any other user that had posted seventeen times since 2017, or are you only able to have those ideas of what his personality is like because he's a celebrity?

Click to shrink...

No, but the admin/mods/users end up incorporating wider off site contexts into assessments of what happens on site. This happens all the time and offsite antics have led to bans and different decisions. Not to say anything about the ban, but the distinction is, I feel, a hypothetical that doesn't elucidate anything. We either have more or less context.

 

[take_marsh]

It's a little disappointing that, given the amount of time and energy Destiny puts in confronting exceedingly influential alt-right internet personalities and communities, that this is what happens when he interacts with this community.

Click to shrink...

Same. I'm sure he doesn't care though. He can still continue going against the alt-right on his own platform in his own way.

 

[Chrome]

Gee thanks for framing his I don't care about minorities I just care about how they can be tools as some positive.

Click to shrink...

Wouldn't the statement "Diversity makes the world a better place" imply the exact same thing though? Really any school of thought ultimately stems from wanting to improve the world in some capacity so saying "he just thinks minorities are a tool to make the world better" is kinda a non-criticism.

 

[excelsiorlef]

It's a little disappointing that, given the amount of time and energy Destiny puts in confronting exceedingly influential alt-right internet personalities and communities, that this is what happens when he interacts with this community.

Click to shrink...

I agree it is very disappointing that he came in here and told us how doesn't care really about minorities or convincing alt-right people not be alt-right and then defended using slurs for fun.

 

[excelsiorlef]

Wouldn't the statement "Diversity makes the world a better place" imply the exact same thing though? Really any school of thought ultimately stems from wanting to improve the world in some capacity so saying "he just thinks minorities are a tool to make the world better" is kinda a non-criticism.

Click to shrink...

If he doesn't actually care about the people he's talking about it means he's on our side only as long as he keeps believing we actually make the world better.... sorry if "I don't actually care about you I just think that I think people like you are good for society in some utilitarian fashion" doesn't inspire confidence that he could be convinced somehow in the future that we don;t and then change teams.

 

[Mobyduck]

It's a little disappointing that, given the amount of time and energy Destiny puts in confronting exceedingly influential alt-right internet personalities and communities, that this is what happens when he interacts with this community.

Click to shrink...

Maybe beginning the discussion by saying he doesn't care about people like me was a bad idea. Maybe coming here to peddle the good old rethoric of "it's only racist if you make it racist" wasn't the best.

 

[Seeya]

His own subreddit has these topics, it's where I found them

https://www.reddit.com/r/Destiny/comments/7n7ejz/why_destiny_advocates_for_child_porn/

https://www.reddit.com/r/Destiny/comments/8yhdj4/did_destiny_clarify_his_stance_on_legalizing/

Click to shrink...

From the op of those links it's clear that he's not arguing the premise of these studies as true or false, his arguement is predicated on the presupposition that it is. IF TRUE, he advocates a course of action.

Destiny advocates for child porn?

"The entire discussion is under the basis "Known pedophiles or people that want to rape children, can be 'cured' by watching child porn." (He has 3 links that support this on his twitter) If this statement isn't true, he drops all of his claims entirely and that's the end of the discussion."

He was very clear about this in the debate.

 

[Windrunner]

I'm not suggesting to treat him lighter because he is an online celebrity. I think he's proven on more than one occasion he'll change his stance on things despite saying otherwise. If a regular user has shown they will change their stance to be generally more accepting or supportive, I think its worth having them talk it out.

I guess it doesnt really matter since he wasnt much of a poster here, but still.

Click to shrink...

I agree to an extent, I want to believe he can change and that this is just some weird blindspot of his but he points towards that blog post of his from 5 years ago about wanting to cut these words out of his vernacular for all the right reasons and defends this as some sort of "gamer culture" thing within the same post.

Like what the fuck? This is the sort of dissonance and nonsense excuse making that he would maul someone in a debate for. I grew up in that same gamer bubble and I had to unlearn the word "retard" and it really wasn't that hard at all nor was it a hill that was worth dying on in the name of intent.

Hopefully he will reflect a bit more on this and make good on that old blog post and that he will work on dropping the Internet edge lord facade because I don't believe "I do not care, intrinsically, about minorities, or women, or people, or racism, or anything like that." are an accurate representation of his feelings.

 

[FormatCompatible]

It's a little disappointing that, given the amount of time and energy Destiny puts in confronting exceedingly influential alt-right internet personalities and communities, that this is what happens when he interacts with this community.

Click to shrink...

Yes it is quite disappointing that when he decides to give his defence the only thing he can conjure up is that he doesn't give a crap about anyone but his own people (cis white males) and that the rest are useful tools, and also that it is somehow ok to say horrible, hateful and hurtful slurs if you ''don't really mean it''.

 

[TrueSloth]

I agree to an extent, I want to believe he can change and that this is just some weird blindspot of his but he points towards that blog post of his from 5 years ago about wanting to cut these words out of his vernacular for all the right reasons and defends this as some sort of "gamer culture" thing within the same post.

Like what the fuck? This is the sort of dissonance and nonsense excuse making that he would maul someone in a debate for. I grew up in that same gamer bubble and I had to unlearn the word "retard" and it really wasn't that hard at all nor was it a hill that was worth dying on in the name of intent.

Hopefully he will reflect a bit more on this and make good on that old blog post and that he will work on dropping the Internet edge lord facade because I don't believe "I do not care, intrinsically, about minorities, or women, or people, or racism, or anything like that." are an accurate representation of his feelings.

Click to shrink...

Yeah, that part I asked Destiny about. I dont think he understood what I was exactly asking- maybe I could have reworded my question, but I generally didnt get why he feels the need to participate in gamerculture on that end where he needs to use certain words.

 

[Deleted member 888]

From the op of those links it's clear that he's not arguing the premise of these studies as true or false, his arguement is predicated on the presupposition that it is. IF TRUE, he advocates a course of action.

Destiny advocates for child porn?

"The entire discussion is under the basis "Known pedophiles or people that want to rape children, can be 'cured' by watching child porn." (He has 3 links that support this on his twitter) If this statement isn't true, he drops all of his claims entirely and that's the end of the discussion."

He was very clear about this in the debate.

Click to shrink...

There are some ethical boundaries you simply do not cross over. Look at how much this "thought-experiment" even empowers the people who seemingly follow him

From one of those Reddit links.

The ends don't always justify the means and continuing to show and use CP is not acceptable in any civilized society. The ways in which we try and deal with offenders right now are the most ethical we've been able to come up with.

Of which ZERO TOLERANCE for them having access to CP or even suggestive material with children in it is what is routinely carried out.

 

[Tygre]

Yep

Basically he's admitting if research said white supremacy makes for a strong "economy" he'd be a white supremacist.

Click to shrink...

Basically:

 

[Deleted member 8777]

Destiny is god

Seriously tho he's a pretty edgy guy and misinformed sometimes but he's one of the few progressives who's willing to put his money where his mouth is. He's trying to drop the edge.

 

[excelsiorlef]

Destiny is god

Seriously tho he's a pretty edgy guy and misinformed sometimes but he's one of the few progressives who's willing to put his money where his mouth is. He's trying to drop the edge.

Click to shrink...

He literally said here not to call him progressive and that he's not going to drop the edge

 

[Sharpeye]

I agree to an extent, I want to believe he can change and that this is just some weird blindspot of his but he points towards that blog post of his from 5 years ago about wanting to cut these words out of his vernacular for all the right reasons and defends this as some sort of "gamer culture" thing within the same post.

Like what the fuck? This is the sort of dissonance and nonsense excuse making that he would maul someone in a debate for. I grew up in that same gamer bubble and I had to unlearn the word "retard" and it really wasn't that hard at all nor was it a hill that was worth dying on in the name of intent.

Hopefully he will reflect a bit more on this and make good on that old blog post and that he will work on dropping the Internet edge lord facade because I don't believe "I do not care, intrinsically, about minorities, or women, or people, or racism, or anything like that." are an accurate representation of his feelings.

Click to shrink...

Ya, this reflects how I feel. I like Destiny and appreciate the works he does against the alt-right by exposing their idiocracy and steering others away from them, but the man has glaring issues and problems that he has to work on. Unlike boogie and other "E-Celebrities", he does seem to have a capacity to change for the better and listen to other opinions. I wonder if despite the ban if he would be willing to have a chat with some posters here discussing these issues.

 

[Skittles]

Wew lads. It's really late and there are a lot of ideas running around here. I'll chime in with my two cents, but this post is gonna be pretty sloppy so bear with me.

Firstly, I am not your friendly, neighborhood progressive. If your previous view of me was that, erase that from your head right now. I do not care, intrinsically, about minorities, or women, or people, or racism, or anything like that. It is not part of my rhetoric to convince people that these things are morally bad, it is not part of my characters to be inherently concerned with these things. I believe that feminism and equal opportunities for minorities tend to produce better outcomes worldwide. This is why I end up at many of the same positions that progressives end up.

I am repeating this one more time, my internal thought process is not motivated by any pure, morally virtuous desire to help people or make people feel better.

Now that we have that out of the way, let's talk about homophobic and racial slurs.

From a personal point of view, I don't think any word, inherently, should be off limits or out of bounds. There are times when using extremely vulgar language can achieve a great effect.

This, so far, should be undeniable.

Does racist language make a person racist? Does homophobic language make a person homophobic? Not necessarily, as much as it might upset some of you to consider this.

A person using homophobic language is not necessarily homophobic, though they oftentimes are unintentionally spreading homophobia.

This seems like a meaningless distinction, but I believe there's a great deal of difference between telling someone they are unintentionally empowering homophobic people vs being a homophobic person. Maybe you don't care, but to the person receiving the message, it matters, trust me.

As a public figure who lives in a society I have to be mindful of how I speak. Ultimately the way my message is interpreted by a viewer is my responsibility, or at least I believe I have some due diligence to ensure people aren't taking away the wrong message from my speech. This is why I generally avoid things like "faggot" or other types of heavy racial humor, and it's why I've been trying to edit out things like "retarded" and "autistic" from my vocabulary. I don't like the idea that people watching me could get an idea that I am homophobic in a way they might be, and I don't like the idea that racist people could listen to me and find companionship in what I'm saying, or some kind of affirmation in their horrible worldviews. I've written about this more extensively here, if you care to read.

Do I say offensive jokes privately that I would never say on stream? You better believe it. But why, what's the difference?

I have never much been concerned with the words themselves, but rather the thoughts/ideas they can spread.

A community that openly uses the word "faggot" probably feels unwelcoming because there are still a lot of gamers (and, larger, elements of society) that still act incredibly homophobic. If a friend of mine uses "faggot" in some insulting way in a private setting, I don't generally think twice about them saying it. If a stranger uses that word, I'm very uncomfortable around them because I don't know if they're actually a homophobic person.

These distinctions may be meaningless to you, and to some extent you can argue that using racial/homophobic slurs in ANY context should be off limits, and I'm fine with tackling those arguments. I generally don't like being called "racist" or "homophobic" because I believe my body of work (can u call a utube channel that tho) speaks for itself, but if you believe that my actions help to spread homophobic thought, maybe you don't care to make the distinction.

I'm sleeping and I'll answer what I can when I wake up, and maybe even proofread/edit this if there are major fuckups.

Stay safe my children.

Click to shrink...

Hey, I just want you to know that you're just as stupid as JonTron is, maybe even more so.

 

[borges]

Know what fucking sucks? Telling marginalized groups to "give it time" and to wait for things to get better.

We're alive now - we'd like to enjoy it, thanks.

Click to shrink...

Im not saying "Deal with it", im just being optimistic towards future. I thought my original comment was clear enough.

 

[L Thammy]

Basically:

Click to shrink...

Or if you prefer:

 

[Deleted member 2834]

Even his community's not having it. Looks like he deleted the according thread on his sub. I like some of his content but man, my perception of him sure changed after his latest Twitch ban. I believe Destiny is capable of changing his mind unlike other people in the gaming community, but he deserves all the flak he's getting right now.