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Twitch Punishes White Apex Legends Cosplayer Who Painted Her Face Black (read Staff Post before posting)

Oct 25, 2017
401
Why are people still defending this woman? She kept posting her racist pictures even after being told it was gravely offensive to a large population of people, and after getting banned.

She's no longer a poor, misguided Lithuanian woman that simply didn't know any better.
 
Nov 21, 2017
632
Dublin, Ireland
No one in my family know what black face is.
No one in my family knows that doing it could be interpreted as racist.

I’m in Europe. We aren’t “ignorant”. The concept of black face simply is not a thing here.

Americans, please stop assuming everyone is like you.

I’ve seen a lot of cosplays. The number one goal is to attain a look as close to the target as possible. With that in mind it makes perfect sense (to a non-American) to paint her face.
Nonsense. I'm European, and I know full fucking well that this is an incredibly disrespectful thing to do. As do my family and friends.
 

Shugga

Banned
Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,340
Racism isn’t as prevalent everywhere in the world as it is in America, in some countries colored people don’t understand why people “want to be a victim that bad” and that’s not my text. That’s just a different viewpoint from a different country because things work differently elsewhere. Wouldn’t it be better if people sincerely don’t think it’s racism to paint your face black or white? What if we managed to combat racism so much making these situations possible?

At one point in the future we must reach a point where we can say that racism is more or less dead (hopefully) at that moment, still calling things like these racism will probably only keep the very idea of racism alive.
Holy fuck what a trashfire post
 
Oct 28, 2017
3,562
EU
Yep as an european, I don't understand the problem in a cosplay context. And I would react the exact same way had she been a black woman painting her face in white
I'm kinda surprised at the backlash. Also from Europe and have no context about blackface, don't see why she shouldn't cosplay like this because for me, it's obvious that it wasn't intended to offend people.
But I'm from a different culture with a different history so what do I know. Only thing that I see is that it does look pretty shitty and strange.

Using blackface to mock people is bad, I agree. I doubt this was her intention though.
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,803
I'm kinda surprised at the backlash. Also from Europe and have no context about blackface, don't see why she shouldn't cosplay like this because for me, it's obvious that it wasn't intended to offend people.
But I'm from a different culture with a different history so what do I know. Only thing that I see is that it does look pretty shitty and strange.

Using blackface to mock people is bad, I agree. I doubt this was her intention though.


It's pretty simple:
A race isn't a costume. You dont "wear" a color.
Blackface started as a racist thing that was to grossly imitating in a racist way black people. While it still retained the same meaning today, it's easy to understand why a lot of people dont want to see their skin color treated as a mere costume.
 
Oct 26, 2017
2,506
User Banned (1 week): Dismissive commentary concerning blackface.
Edit: Americans "refusing to believe" how things are in the other parts of the globe is about as ignorant as what she did. Blackface is pretty much never discussed or learned in many parts of the world (like mine). This is not super unlikely, guys.
My country has no awareness about blackface, it can be used without issues.

However she used international platform, some research would have helped her avoid this.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,237
That's what she did, she just didn't understand why she was banned. Now she does and won't do it again obviously. But you're clearly mistaken the point of the discussion apart from giving points to the people denouncing some rather heavy narrow-minded attitude here.

+ Bonus points for trying to discredit a person because of past messages and not talking about the thread at all...
She double doubled down

She posted more pictures and a message to all her fans on Instagram thanking them for supporting her in her time of need
If Acinixys's post is true then she hasn't really learned and is still happy to post pictures even when explained why black face can be outright hurtful for black folks.

"She just wanted to pay tribute to a black character" is fine, but when you do something insensitive or hurtful the best thing to is apologize and rectify the situation, regardless of whether you did it with good intentions. Take pictures w/o the skin color-altering makeup applied and use those going forward, it doesn't seem like a hard decision to me over doubling down and continuing to use the same pics.
 
Oct 25, 2017
696
They use all skin colors for their costumes and they do it because they love the (fictional) characters. Cosplay is not the same as Blackface, for starters the intention is positive and it is not restricted to one skin color.
Where did I say this was blackface.....I said I don't want my skin color used as a costume. Hell after the she was told how people feel about her "costume" she kept posting pictures. Why is it hard for you to understand?
 
Oct 31, 2017
5,378
Nonsense. I'm European, and I know full fucking well that this is an incredibly disrespectful thing to do. As do my family and friends.
what about all the other europeans who have posted in this thread who said the same thing?

I'm not european myself, but I do know there are many different european countries and I can only assume lots of them have totally different cultures. especially if including all the different Russia/CIS countries as well
 

Madjaba

Banned
Member
May 16, 2018
80
If Acinixys's post is true then she hasn't really learned and is still happy to post pictures even when explained why black face can be outright hurtful for black folks.

"She just wanted to pay tribute to a black character" is fine, but when you do something insensitive or hurtful the best thing to is apologize and rectify the situation, regardless of whether you did it with good intentions. Take pictures w/o the skin color-altering makeup applied and use those going forward, it doesn't seem like a hard decision to me over doubling down and continuing to use the same pics.
I think all of this is the same situation. She did her cosplay, get flamed and banned, didn't understand it and wanted to prove that her intentions we good so she insisted and then get flamed again.

It's exactly similar to what Griezmann did and he was flamed multiple times before taken everything off his Instagram. It's just not obvious for everyone especially when it first was attempted as a tribute.

Since when is being European an excuse? Y'all have never heard of Zwarte Piet and all of the controversy and protests surrounding it?
Nope. Didn't know about it before reading this thread.
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,803
Since when is being European an excuse? Y'all have never heard of Zwarte Piet and all of the controversy and protests surrounding it?

The fact I had to Google it... yeah. Even though I knew about blackface before hand. Every time, I learn about a new festival or tradition in another European country. Denmark, Belgium and now Netherlands that has a blackface character or festival. Europe isn't a monolithic culture.
 
Oct 26, 2017
3,547
I'm kinda surprised at the backlash. Also from Europe and have no context about blackface, don't see why she shouldn't cosplay like this because for me, it's obvious that it wasn't intended to offend people.
But I'm from a different culture with a different history so what do I know. Only thing that I see is that it does look pretty shitty and strange.

Using blackface to mock people is bad, I agree. I doubt this was her intention though.
I don't know why people assume everyone knows that. I only learned that on here through the Off Topic area and many articles where people complained and I can understand, but it sucks that everyone assumes bad intentions immediately.

99% of my country (Germany) have no clue that "Blackface" is offensive.

TBH I think I learned through GAF a couple of years ago. I get it, I agree with it, but I had to be made aware of it.
Blackface is still a "costume" you will see everywhere in Germany during carnival.

Educate, don´t punish.

And USA, please stop thinking you are the center of the universe and the entire globe should know what you have going on.
Yep good to know that I didn't miss something in school, uff. I too learned that on GAF back then.
 

GlamFM

Banned
Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,553
User Banned (1 Month): Dismissive Commentary Concerning Blackface; History of Severe Infractions
99% of my country (Germany) have no clue that "Blackface" is offensive.

TBH I think I learned through GAF a couple of years ago. I get it, I agree with it, but I had to be made aware of it.
Blackface is still a "costume" you will see everywhere in Germany during carnival.

Educate, don´t punish.

And USA, please stop thinking you are the center of the universe and the entire globe should know what you have going on.
 
Mar 11, 2019
69
User Banned (1 Week): Defending blackface, false equivalencies
No one in my family know what black face is.
No one in my family knows that doing it could be interpreted as racist.

I’m in Europe. We aren’t “ignorant”. The concept of black face simply is not a thing here.

Americans, please stop assuming everyone is like you.

I’ve seen a lot of cosplays. The number one goal is to attain a look as close to the target as possible. With that in mind it makes perfect sense (to a non-American) to paint her face.
I'm from africa and i never legit knew 'blackface' was a thing

this might be my first scenario of it and i don't feel offended because she wasn't being comical or disingenuous of blacks in general (i think) also, i like the character lifeline from apex

judging from the thread tho it's an incredibly racist thing so twitch did good and she seemed sorry i guess.
I don't really understand, why can't you paint your face in black when you are cosplaying a black character for a videogame? Please school me on this.

In The Netherlands we have this whole discussion about blackface, so I guess it's the same problem. But in The Netherlands, 'zwarte piet' has many negative colonial connotations. Is this the same?

Sorry for asking if it's disrespectful.
I am from the Netherlands as well and even coloured, many people are not aware of anything of this in Europe. We have zwarte piet and sinterklaas from Spain here in the Netherlands where its a national holiday primary for children to get presents from Sinterklaas. White people are painted black pretending to be black and work for sinterklaas in helping to bring all presents and candies to children (see image). As a child I never saw any offence and found the zwarte piet cool. Only later I found out some coloured people took offence of this holiday for obvious reasons (since the setting does resemble slavery) and this has been a debate in politics in the last few years.



She wanted to cosplay as one of her favorite video game characters so she made a costume to look like her. I don't see how this is disrespectful or ignorant, she is not representing a caricature of a black person. This is more like paying a tribute and not doing what is being described in the Wikipedia article.
I would like to think that it would still be allowed if a white person wants to paint themselves black, not out of disrespect but out of joy and respect, for example pretending to be a black hero. Otherwise wouldn't being coloured be seen as a shortcoming instead of something to be proud of in a way that it is not allowed to go and cosplay certain diseases and shortcomings.

Similar to the controversy around the soccer player Antoine Griezmann:

I believe he genuinely did not do this out of disrespect, but the opposite, out of respect and as representation of the 80s era where having a large afro was cool (may dad had this as well in the 80s). I still dont see an issue with this.

Edit: But in the end if many people take offence of these practises I do believe this must be respected
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,800
99% of my country (Germany) have no clue that "Blackface" is offensive.

TBH I think I learned through GAF a couple of years ago. I get it, I agree with it, but I had to be made aware of it.
Blackface is still a "costume" you will see everywhere in Germany during carnival.

Educate, don´t punish.

And USA, please stop thinking you are the center of the universe and the entire globe should know what you have going on.
I'm really starting to love these posts that basically say 'racism doesn't exist in my country.'
 
Oct 27, 2017
952
From wikipedia

Blackface is a form of theatrical make-upused predominantly by non-black performers to represent a caricature of a black person. The practice gained popularity during the 19th century and contributed to the spread of racial stereotypes such as the "happy-go-lucky darkyon the plantation" or the "dandified coon".
In this case, does this really happend? Is that cosplay caricature or does it spread racial stereotypes?
 

Shugga

Banned
Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,340
I believe he genuinely did not do this out of disrespect, but the opposite, out of respect and as representation of the 80s era where having a large afro was cool
Ah yes and he couldn't wear that wig without painting his body black
 
Oct 26, 2017
11,699
Los Angeles, CA
Somehow this thread turned into a USA against the world thread.

Suddenly we the assholes instead of the people continuing to promote their use of blackface when they have been told it’s offensive to many people. 🤔
 

Ada

Member
Nov 28, 2017
1,236
I see ignorance being used as a shield in here. "I didn't know you couldn't do that". I'm from the EU and know exactly what blackface is.
 
Somehow this thread turned into a USA against the world thread.

Suddenly we the assholes instead of the people continuing to promote their use of blackface when they have been told it’s offensive to many people. 🤔
Yeah the idea that blackface has only been used in an offensive manner in America and *never* in Europe or anywhere else in the world is insane and people who try to peddle this nonsense only end up showing their whole entire ass
 
Oct 30, 2017
652
And USA, please stop thinking you are the center of the universe and the entire globe should know what you have going on.
Exactly.

To be honest I would have never thought of this as offensive because she didn’t make fun of anyone.
But this is an interesting thread for sure.
 
Oct 31, 2017
5,378
99% of my country (Germany) have no clue that "Blackface" is offensive.

TBH I think I learned through GAF a couple of years ago. I get it, I agree with it, but I had to be made aware of it.
Blackface is still a "costume" you will see everywhere in Germany during carnival.

Educate, don´t punish.

And USA, please stop thinking you are the center of the universe and the entire globe should know what you have going on.
yeah, I actually don't know many political/controversial subjects until I come across them first on ERA (or GAF in the past)

because outside of ERA I literally never watch any news, twitter, facebook, instagram... nothing. I rarely even go to Youtube, and even then it's never to randomly surf it, only for a specific video I'm looking up. Also I use addons to remove all recommendations/sidebars/comments & random content on Youtube

the only two things I'm interested in is video games and watching sports. 100% of my TV watching is only sports. so I don't know shit about news, except if someone on ERA happens to post something in the two gaming forums
 

Lusankya

Banned
Member
Oct 27, 2017
313
I think what they mean is 'White people in my country have no awareness about blackface, it can therefore be used without issue'!!
I don't think it's about this. There just is a difference between Blackface (as in doing a caricature of a black person to mock them) and between painting your face in a different color for your cosplay because you really like that character you're cosplaying as.
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,803
Somehow this thread turned into a USA against the world thread.

Suddenly we the assholes instead of the people continuing to promote their use of blackface when they have been told it’s offensive to many people. 🤔

As I said, not knowing beforehand isn't an excuse nor a pass for doing a blackface. People have legit reasons to be upset and hurt.


I don't think it's about this. There just is a difference between Blackface (as in doing a caricature of a black person to mock them) and between painting your face in a different color for your cosplay because you really like that character you're cosplaying as.
Blackface isn't about mocking people anymore. It's also the simple fact that a color or a race isn't a costume. It's not hard to understand that people don't want their ethnicity to be used as a entertainment.
 

GlamFM

Banned
Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,553
Yes it is. Your ignorance doesn't make it acceptable
Wait, how am I ignorant?

Just saying that among the 195 countries in the world there are some who have different views.

These are not views I share, but saying they don´t exist is wrong.

What GlamFM means, I think is, it *is* accepted, in practice. While you mean, it never *should* be, which I hope we can all agree on.
Of course.
 
Oct 26, 2017
722
do you think there is blackface that...isn't blackface?





It's a Goddess.


For more context, Kaali Ma. A lot of Hindu gods and goddesses have been depicted as having light/ blue skin since the past 1500 years or so, with her as the sole exception, only being depicted with dark blue or straight dark skin possibly due to her name as well as ...... fear of her? I guess. This kinda went hand-in-hand with the diminishing status of darker skinned folks in Indian society. So I kinda see these kinda depictions of certain deities as reclaimations, tho actually giving the role to a darker skinned person would be miles more preferable.
 
Last edited:
Wait, how am I ignorant?

Just saying that among the 195 countries in the world there are some who have different views.

These are not views I share, but saying they don´t exist is wrong.
No, it's still unacceptable. People who say "hey, we think this is good, actually" aren't just accepting people, they're *wrong*

There is never an excuse for this, under any circumstance. And arguing *for* it is arguing to belittle entire races of people
 
Nov 21, 2017
632
Dublin, Ireland
Oh one of these threads where people pretend blackface and racism are unheard of in Europe, in order to defend their racism.

Yeah, it really blows my mind. I am entirely skeptical that people don't realise. Even if they don't, it's pretty shitty to frame it as innocence rather than ignorance.

Is that people don't know it is offensive? I think it's more likely they just don't care.