Twitch Punishes White Apex Legends Cosplayer Who Painted Her Face Black (read Staff Post before posting)

Enrico25

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Jan 10, 2018
1,225
I'm not american so I don't really understand the issue. It's a cosplay of a black woman so she obviously painted her face...
Can someone please explain the situation?
 

Deleted member 2321

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,555
No, it's still unacceptable. People who say "hey, we think this is good, actually" aren't just accepting people, they're *wrong*

There is never an excuse for this, under any circumstance. And arguing *for* it is arguing to belittle entire races of people
Seems like you absolutely don´t get what I´m saying.

Also seems like you don´t want to.
 

Lusankya

Member
Oct 27, 2017
395
Oh one of these threads where people pretend blackface and racism are unheard of in Europe, in order to defend their racism.
Or one of those threads were some people think there is a difference between (I quote myself) Blackface (as in doing a caricature of a black person to mock them) and painting your face in a different color for your cosplay because you really like that character you're cosplaying as.

Believing some of the users here you're racist the moment you draw one your face and intention doesn't matter.
 

regawdless

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,880
EU
It's pretty simple:
A race isn't a costume. You dont "wear" a color.
Blackface started as a racist thing that was to grossly imitating in a racist way black people. While it still retained the same meaning today, it's easy to understand why a lot of people dont want to see their skin color treated as a mere costume.
Thanks for the explanation. I understand that it's tasteless, especially given the context.
I just didn't encounter any of this controversy in my cultural background regarding costumes. Guess I could be a bit more sensitive. I grew up with kids being in costumes as American Indians, with red-ish facepaint next to kids dressed as Shrek with green skin and it was never discussion worthy or seen as harmful.

Good to be able to have these discussions. Also, now I finally get the blackface from Tropic Thunder. I always just thought "well, that's kinda stupid" but now I know what they were going for. Wow.
 

Deleted member 2321

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,555
No, I understand exactly what you're saying. The issue is that what you're saying is bullshit, but you're not willing to question your stupid ideas
I´m saying that Blackface (unfortunately) is not considered offensive in every country in the world. That´s just facts. Not really sure how this is something you can disagree on.
 

newmoneytrash

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,026
Melbourne, Australia
I´m saying that Blackface (unfortunately) is not considered offensive in every country in the world. That´s just facts. Not really sure how this is something you can disagree on.
That was never the point I was making, and you're just needlessly arguing semantics. Regardless of if people think it isn't offensive is irrelevant, it *is* offensive. No country exists in a vacuum, so there is no country where this is not offensive

Jesus Christ. Being like "well some people like racism, actually" is not an argument you make when you disagree with it
 

Principate

Member
Oct 31, 2017
6,243
I´m saying that Blackface (unfortunately) is not considered offensive in every country in the world. That´s just facts. Not really sure how this is something you can disagree on.
Whether it's considered offensive or not is completely meaningless. Racism isn't considered offensive in a lot of countries either. A more telling barometer is whether the people within those that are the subject of blackface consider it offensive.
 

Deleted member 2321

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,555
That was never the point I was making, and you're just needlessly arguing semantics. Regardless of if people think it isn't offensive is irrelevant, it *is* offensive. No country exists in a vacuum, so there is no country where this is not offensive

Jesus Christ. Being like "well some people like racism, actually" is not an argument you make when you disagree with it
Oh, I agree with all of that. I think this was just a misunderstanding then.
 

atomsk eater

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,363
I'm not american so I don't really understand the issue. It's a cosplay of a black woman so she obviously painted her face...
Can someone please explain the situation?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackface

It is mostly a US thing, but there are instances of it in other countries.
Essentially in the past it was used as a way to denigrate and mock black people through the use of stereotypes and exaggerated behavior, and often kept them out of acting and performing (since slapping some black paint and bright red lipstick on a white person was considered "good enough").

There is a more recent modern movement stemming from this, where the idea is that cultures and races are not mere costumes that can be put on an taken off at other's convenience. So things like Native American costumes and headdresses (and I dunno if you have any idea how badly European settlers treated Native Americans, but it was and is still really supremely shitty) are generally not okay with some people.

Edit: I'll try to get back to this clusterfuck thread with some twitter threads from black cosplayers on the matter in generak, but in essence most do not find this behavior to be a compliment and would like people to stop. The issue is that instead of listening people continue to insist it should be taken as a compliment and continue to put what they want to do over the feelings of actual black people.
 

Majukun

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,869
User Banned (1 Month): Excusing Blackface Over a Series of Posts; History of Dismissive Behaviour
I'm not american so I don't really understand the issue. It's a cosplay of a black woman so she obviously painted her face...
Can someone please explain the situation?
google blackface

but long story short,usa has an history with white people making caricatures of black people by painting their faces, and that stick.

europe has no such history that i'm aware of, so we don't have such immediate repulsion towards it, and it kinds of sound logical for us that when you reproduce the appearance of a person, you would also reproduce his/her "color", being of skin or hair, since people are not color blind.

there's also the argument that some peope find offensive that you are considering their race a costume
 

7threst

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,538
Netherlands
Jesus fucking christ.

She...

Didn't realize that blackface is offensive?

What?
More common than you think, especially in Europe and other places outside of North America. I've seen many instances where people in the UK of all places can't grasp what's wrong with it.
I just realized a few years ago. Didn't even knew about blackface history. That's not a strange thing when you are not from the US.
 

GhostTrick

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,740
google blackface

but long story short,usa has an history with white people making caricatures of black people by painting their faces, and that stick.

europe has no such history that i'm aware of, so we don't have such immediate repulsion towards it, and it kinds of sound logical for us that when you reproduce the appearance of a person, you would also reproduce his/her "color", being of skin or hair, since people are not color blind.

there's also the argument that some peope find offensive that you are considering their race a costume

Europe has a history of doing blackfaces in a lot of countries. What Europe doesn't have though is an history of blackface being a bad thing for a reason: Not every European countries have the same cultural thing and more importantly it's until recently that we're starting to see more and more stories popping about it.
 

Sir Hound

Member
Oct 28, 2017
444
User Banned (1 Week): Dismissive Commentary Concerning Blackface
ITT: Americans judging the rest of the world by standards forged in their own racist history. I think you can forgive someone the ignorance of your history and calmly educate rather than just call her a racist or a "fucking idiot". I wonder how much your average American knows about Lithuania? Because I can tell you I know fuck-all about it - a quick check of Wikipedia is telling me there's 264 African immigrants in Lithuania so I'm guessing their black population is pretty low and their ability to navigate racial sensitivities or knowledge of racial relations is probably pretty fucking slim.

It's not a coincidence that this stuff keeps happening in countries with low racial diversity. If we're going to hold them up to our own standards there's gonna need to be a little understanding of their history, too.
 

Jin

Member
Oct 25, 2017
276
I haven't been confronted with Blackface until I was like 24 and read stories about it on GAF, I'm glad to see that it is still unthinkable for people that other people from differetn countries haven't heard about it as it was back then.

My whole family has no idea what it is because when I learned about it I actually asked them if I just missed something. No I hadn't missed anything it just wasn't anything ever talked about here, I went and did some research on Blackfacing in Germany and learned there have been some "minor" incidents starting in like 2010 in the media and apparently lately it has actually been discussed more often but not in any way in mass media, so people knowing about it at all are I would guess in the low single digit percentage of the population here.

So yes I can see a lot of people having no idea about it, not knowing that they are doing anything wrong and meaning no harm.
 

nwb

Member
Mar 30, 2018
53
It can't be racist in Europe because it's widely accepted here is a super revealing take.

Hint: It's super fucking racing here.
 

Majukun

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,869
Europe has a history of doing blackfaces in a lot of countries. What Europe doesn't have though is an history of blackface being a bad thing for a reason: Not every European countries have the same cultural thing and more importantly it's until recently that we're starting to see more and more stories popping about it.
there are some spots but they are nowhere as widespread and known to be of any particular significance on a cultural level, especially when you consider, like you said, that europe is not a monolitic culture, so exposition to blackface would vary even if it was more relevant.

basically you don't grow up in europe will the acquired notion that blackface is offensive or racist,you just make the notion "i must reproduce this guy/gal appearance"

it would be funny albeit impossible experiment to extrapolate usa's history with blackface and see if modern day us citiziens would react to it the same way
 
Oct 29, 2017
2,147
I'm not american so I don't really understand the issue. It's a cosplay of a black woman so she obviously painted her face...
Can someone please explain the situation?
White actors used to paint their faces black and play black characters, mocking and ridiculing the black community.

It was a source of pain and hardship for black people in the United States and many other western countries that also have blackface performances.

Context matters and the context is that this was done in a dehumanising way and has left a legacy of pain. As such, people should refrain from doing it, regardless of whether it's meant innocently. It's not hard to avoid blackface and she easily just could have played the character without it.

There are plenty of black cosplayers who play numerous characters in fiction without ever needing to 'white up' (although that's an entirely different thing anyway as there's no negative context to this).
 

atomsk eater

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,363
ITT: Americans judging the rest of the world by standards forged in their own racist history. I think you can forgive someone the ignorance of your history and calmly educate rather than just call her a racist or a "fucking idiot". I wonder how much your average American knows about Lithuania? Because I can tell you I know fuck-all about it - a quick check of Wikipedia is telling me there's 264 African immigrants in Lithuania so I'm guessing their black population is pretty low and their ability to navigate racial sensitivities or knowledge of racial relations is probably pretty fucking slim.

It's not a coincidence that this stuff keeps happening in countries with low racial diversity. If we're going to hold them up to our own standards there's gonna need to be a little understanding of their history, too.
But there are plenty of people in here trying to calmly educate, and I don't doubt there were people trying to do the same directly to her. I don't expect everyone to have perfect knowledge of everything, but it is a huge pain in the ass and makes me feel like I shouldn't have bothered when people keep using their location as an excuse when they've been told why it's not ok. If it's posted publicly on our increasingly globalized internet, you're going to get viewpoints from different types of people. Mostly it's frustrating being told to calmly, politely and unemotionally as possible tiptoe over someone else's feelings and take them by the hand and guide them through a minefield, and the other person just doubles down, makes excuses, and tries to ignore the explanations.