Twitch Punishes White Apex Legends Cosplayer Who Painted Her Face Black (read Staff Post before posting)

Hentailover · Apr 16, 2019

You know, I will never fully comprehend the irony of people condeming collonialism while using exact same collinial logic to condemn people with.
Rough quote: "They do not feel love, they do not carress or embrace each other" this is something that was said about native american people by a bunch of racist collonialists to dehumanize native americans. Because these people did not express themselves correctly through the lens of white culture which was "obviously the correct and civilized culture", they were deemed lesser.

Now, it is incredibly easy to strawman my point into "blackface should be allowed, only americans are butthurt over it blah blah" but that's bullshit. Blackface shouldn't be allowed. What I have a problem with is expectation that everyone should instantly know it's bad and completely condemned on this grounds, because their cultural background clearly doesn't match "obviosly the correct and civilized culture" in this sense. It is entirely plausible she geniunely didn't know she did something wrong.

Does it mean we should just let people claim ignorance as defence to do hateful shit? No, not really. I think her punishment is appropriate. Repeated offence should be a perma-ban. But some people are a little too eager to condemn on the spot and I just feel we need to be a bit more conscious of people's cultural backgrounds in general, cuz opposite is ironically very much like colonialism.

UPD: oh and I mean collonialism not in a sense of experience of victims of it. Obviously comparing white girl being called racist online to having your lands taken, your culture destroyed and your family killed is utterly absurd. I mean specifically the mind set of people using said logic, not actions inflicted upon people. Just realized I needed to clarify that.

Gotdatmoney · Apr 16, 2019

famikon said:
Eastern Europe (except Russia) had nothing to do with colonialism.

You think everyone posting here is from Eastern Europe? (They aren't) And you think Eastern Europe doesn't have issues with treatment of black skinned peoples?

Fahdi · Apr 16, 2019

atomsk eater said:
Great, see my various posts where I say "most" or "many" and never "all". I don't speak for everyone, and I have seen some other black people who don't really care about the subject. There are, however, a lot of people who feel strongly about this, and I happen to be a black woman who hates seeing others rush to make excuses instead of listening to people attempting to educate. If another POC has a different opinion, they are welcome to it and can share it here. I don't need someone to try to tell me the community at large thinks I'm wrong because Chun Li looks Chinese.

Also you can dress as any character you want regardless of skin color or physical features. You might not look 100% like them, but that's fine! Cosplay is not just about pure accuracy but about creation, crafting, expression, and showing love for characters and media you like! This kind of seeking perfectionism leads to attitudes where black cosplayers dressing up as 99.9% of the cosplay pool get called "Nigger (character)" or "Black (character)" and dismissed or ignored, despite doing a bomb-ass job with their costume. It's also funny because most characters from Japanese media are not white, but this almost never happens to white cosplayers, even though they're technically inaccurate. Just a few weeks ago I saw a black girl dressed as Sailor Mars and was somehow able to recognize her character despite the fact that she was, y'know, black and not Japanese and hadn't painted her skin.

I agree with you and understand where you're coming from. But for being a fellow POC, I don't think we should marginalize ourselves so much (with exception to historical tyranny) that white people just get scared of doing anything. If it weren't for a wholesome community effort of mixed people and races, we wouldn't be anywhere for the love of everything we like in terms of the media we consume. We can help however to educate if someone is being ignorant because harsh reactions never really fix anything either. Good examples though.

Prine · Apr 16, 2019

Lusankya said:
Yeah, but cosplaying and Blackface is not the same thing. Different intentions and different effect.
You're not automatically a racist just by drawing something on your face.

Blackface isn't drawing something on your face, the actors intent is meaningless as caricaturing or morphing into minorities from the perspective of the majority race is a racist. You dont need to change your colour to symbolise a character, this is so simple to understand.

shotopunx · Apr 16, 2019

How are so many of you justifying ignorance by saying you didn't learn about it in school?

Do you not educate yourselves in addition to your schooling?

nwb · Apr 16, 2019

Lusankya said:
No, that's not how it works. In some parts of the world people are offended by gay pairs kissing in public or by women showing some skin. You're not automatically on the side of people who feel offended about something.

It does work the same way though. If people call you out for supporting LGBTQ causes, and you don't care - you might just be a supporter of LGBTQ causes :)

Hoa · Apr 16, 2019

atomsk eater said:
Great, see my various posts where I say "most" or "many" and never "all". I don't speak for everyone, and I have seen some other black people who don't really care about the subject. There are, however, a lot of people who feel strongly about this, and I happen to be a black woman who hates seeing others rush to make excuses instead of listening to people attempting to educate. If another POC has a different opinion, they are welcome to it and can share it here. I don't need someone to try to tell me the community at large thinks I'm wrong because Chun Li looks Chinese.

Also you can dress as any character you want regardless of skin color or physical features. You might not look 100% like them, but that's fine! Cosplay is not just about pure accuracy but about creation, crafting, expression, and showing love for characters and media you like! This kind of seeking perfectionism leads to attitudes where black cosplayers dressing up as 99.9% of the cosplay pool get called "Nigger (character)" or "Black (character)" and dismissed or ignored, despite doing a bomb-ass job with their costume. It's also funny because most characters from Japanese media are not white, but this almost never happens to white cosplayers, even though they're technically inaccurate. Just a few weeks ago I saw a black girl dressed as Sailor Mars and was somehow able to recognize her character despite the fact that she was, y'know, black and not Japanese and hadn't painted her skin.

100% facts, and I've also noticed a large amount of black cosplayers agree with you here and take this stance.

famikon · Apr 16, 2019

Gotdatmoney said:
And you think Eastern Europe doesn't have issues with treatment of black skinned peoples?

What treatment? Eastern European countries didn't colonize Africa like western world did. Westerners created that issue.

ps3ud0 · Apr 16, 2019

Should be embarrassed that you haven't the decency of character to even challenge such imagery without having to be force-fed why it's not acceptable.

Too many people that just can't think for themselves and believe ignorance is ok. To frame your argument as such is borderline stupidity in such a connected world.

Hell as a few have said just consider the juxtaposition and wonder why people of colour don't do 'whiteface'...

ps3ud0 8)

Glasfrut · Apr 16, 2019

famikon said:
What treatment? Eastern European countries didn't colonize Africa like western world did. Westerners created that issue.

Dude. You know what he meant.

Gotdatmoney · Apr 16, 2019

Fahdi said:
But for being a fellow POC, I don't think we should marginalize ourselves so much (with exception to historical tyranny) that white people just get scared of doing anything.

This is just . . . Lol.

In the history of the world, when have white people ever been scared of doing anything due to black people? Even now, in this thread, you have a bunch of people defending darkening your skin up because "it's a costume".

The fuck you talking about? I can't think of a single thing where black people could actually even exercise what you are claiming

random88 · Apr 16, 2019

I think if I went asking people around my town for a whole day, I might find a couple knowing what a blackface is. Other than NA, UK, and a few other big western countries, knowledge about that isn't very well spread. That doesn't make it ok, but it is a fact. And expecting people to Google something they don't know they should be informed about isn't realistic. Especially when a big majority of people use internet to listen songs on Youtube and post and like each others pictures on Facebook and Instagram. Especially in east Europe.
I mean, there was a show where celebrities were pretending they were famous singers, and almost every week someone had a task to imitate some black singer like Beyonce, Louis Armstrong, etc. and no one saw anything wrong with that. The mindset was to look as much as possible as them. Again, it doesn't make it ok, but they don't know why. So calling someone racist without explaining to them why is it wrong isn't going to solve anything.
And I don't know how you would go and solve it on a national level, that kind of stuff needs to be on TVs and major publications as a documentary or something, or taught in schools.

Still, all that said, it's kinda weird that a cosplayer didn't know about that stuff since their communities are usually well connected all around the world.

Bhonar · Apr 16, 2019

Gotdatmoney said:
Reading this thread you would think Europe had 0 part to play in colonialism.

from the little I know of European history, I believe they stopped using slaves long before America. I mean in their own countries (continental Europe), I don't mean overseas colonies

So I think the subject of slavery is much more recent/fresh in America

Horo · Apr 16, 2019

Curious though, how do you cosplay a character of different skin color? You just ignore the fact?

Black Mantis · Apr 16, 2019

Psyrgery said:
In Spain the term blackface is also completely alien to us.

It is not until a recent uproar in Twitter bashing a spanish tradition where a number people dress up as pages of the Three Wise Men that I learned of it and how offensive it is.

Many of spaniards, me included, were baffled as to why people were so upset about it.

It is not done in an insulting way nor it is mean to disrespect anyone, it's quite the opposite.

Now I know that it's disrespectful and it should be avoided, but I would not dare say that people doing behind the Three Wise Men thing are racist or mean ill towards black people.

It's just cultural differences that I am sure will change over time

As a black person living in Spain, I have a question for you. You say it's just cultural differences that will change over time, and I agree with you in that it'll change, as when I first started coming to Spain (Madrid, to be exact) in 2006, every Baltazar was a white man in blackface, whereas now it's safe to say that the majority are now actual black people (again, in Madrid, other, mainly smaller cities are still ignorant on this).

But, as you can see in this thread, a lot of posters here struggle to understand why it's offensive, despite the uproar and the opportunity to educate themselves before posting. What in particular made you understand the offense caused?

Fahdi · Apr 16, 2019

Hoa said:
100% facts, and I've also noticed a large amount of black cosplayers agree with you here and take this stance.

That "large amount" isn't the majority because of one forum. However, I do respect the stance of the majority "here" and I may be in the minority. So it is all about perspectives at the end.

Commander Quackers · Apr 16, 2019

respecting black people has never been high on the worlds priorities

atomsk eater · Apr 16, 2019

Fahdi said:
I agree with you and understand where you're coming from. But for being a fellow POC, I don't think we should marginalize ourselves so much (with exception to historical tyranny) that white people just get scared of doing anything. If it weren't for a wholesome community effort of mixed people and races, we wouldn't be anywhere for the love of everything we like in terms of the media we consume. We can help however to educate if someone is being ignorant because harsh reactions never really fix anything either. Good examples though.

I don't see standing up for this as marginalizing myself. I just think that's a fundamental difference between our viewpoints, and I'm unlikely to change my opinion here.

It's kind of the same logic I see with metoo, where now men are supposedly afraid to interact with women at all, when only men who know they've done something wrong should have anything to fear. Don't agree with the logic of trying to censure or silence myself so that people aren't made uncomfortable or don't learn to think through their actions a little more because they now realize how those actions might be taken now. Change doesn't come about from being silent.

famikon · Apr 16, 2019

Glasfrut said:
Dude. You know what he meant.

I can assure you that black people would feel much safer in Eastern Europe than in the US.

Hoa · Apr 16, 2019

She found out about it when she got banned, yet still chose to do it afterwords.

Who cares if you didn't know. She learned, then chose to say fuck it and do it again apparently cause she got support from folks who also didn't give a fuck.

Artorias · Apr 16, 2019

I'm impressed people are still defending a streamer that kept posting pictures of her blackface even after being told it was racist because of its sordid history.

All these people dying on this hill to defend this poor and ignorant white woman.

Smh

Hoa · Apr 16, 2019

Fahdi said:
That "large amount" isn't the majority because of one forum. However, I do respect the stance of the majority "here" and I may be in the minority. So it is all about perspectives at the end.

I wasn't talking about this forum, mainly the cosplayers speaking about this issue on twitter and other social media.

Gotdatmoney · Apr 16, 2019

Glasfrut said:
Dude. You know what he meant.

Which is why I am not going to waste effort on them and I suggest you dont either. Ignore feature is great fam.

SurrenderDorothy · Apr 16, 2019

Why couldn't she just cosplay without the skin colour change? Bloody idiot.
And ofcourse fellow Europeans are making excuses for how it isn't as bad, or that it's "not offensive here", ofcourse...
Time is a flat circle.

You fucking idiots actually trying to turn this into a America vs Europe thing need to get a grip. Fuck off with acting like it's not offensive.
You people don't learn a fucking thing. Pricks.

Basarili · Apr 16, 2019

Ohboy this is a huge topic in The Netherlands. There is a lot to learn for some of us. If the video footages of what happens in the past 4? years when Sinterklaas comes to the country would be shown to you all you would be surprised to see parents next to their kids screaming and swearing that black face is oke. Live on tv and when you're protesting against tSinterklaas and the parents swearing against you the goverment puts you in a jail for a day for disturbing the show.

Edit: Members here do say people need to educate themself. True, but do you know that the western European goverments where we live in do nothing about it. Isn't it their job to inform us about the fact that these subjects have changed. Instead they're still promoting it as our national day.

Kaivan · Apr 16, 2019

I learned the term 'Blackface' from Gaf a few years ago. I knew that it's a thing (not the term, just the act) but I had no clue that it's offensive.

I'm not an American nor European.

vestan · Apr 16, 2019

Horo said:
Curious though, how do you cosplay a character of different skin color? You just ignore the fact?

Yes

PixelatedDonut · Apr 16, 2019

Fahdi said:
I don't think you understand:

What defenders of blackface gloss over is the fact that blackface cannot escape its history. It's a history of one group of people exercising power over another group. And blackface today is still about power. When white people don blackface, make excuses for it and dismiss black people's objections they are saying: we decide the dominant narrative and there's nothing you can do about it. /QUOTE]
Why can't people in this thread understand this?

Gotdatmoney · Apr 16, 2019

Horo said:
Curious though, how do you cosplay a character of different skin color? You just ignore the fact?

Do you think black cosplayers all paint themselves white?

atomsk eater · Apr 16, 2019

Horo said:
Curious though, how do you cosplay a character of different skin color? You just ignore the fact?

You just put on the costume, wig, colored contacts, etc.

You can tell she's meant to be dressed as Sailor Moon, right? And someone posted a cute Lucio cosplay earlier in the thread, where the woman who did it did not paint her skin. Characters tend to be so much more than just their skin color, and even if you don't have the most accurate props or costume it's still pretty easy to tell who they are if you're familiar with the character in question.

Will add that I don't feel strongly about changing your skin color if it's an inhuman color (like a green or blue character or something). But for characters that are just like normal humans it's better not to, IMO.

Fahdi · Apr 16, 2019

Gotdatmoney said:
This is just . . . Lol.

In the history of the world, when have white people ever been scared of doing anything due to black people? Even now, in this thread, you have a bunch of people defending darkening your skin up because "it's a costume".

The fuck you talking about? I can't think of a single thing where black people could actually even exercise what you are claiming

I'm not going to dignify you with a response because of your aggressive demeanor. Have some respect

atomsk eater said:
I don't see standing up for this as marginalizing myself. I just think that's a fundamental difference between our viewpoints, and I'm unlikely to change my opinion here.

It's kind of the same logic I see with metoo, where now men are supposedly afraid to interact with women at all, when only men who know they've done something wrong should have anything to fear. Don't agree with the logic of trying to censure or silence myself so that people aren't made uncomfortable or don't learn to think through their actions a little more because they now realize how those actions might be taken now. Change doesn't come about from being silent.

Sure, but aren't there exceptions to this where Black men have been put into jail because of a false allegation by women? Even though they did nothing? I agree change doesn't come about from being silent and you absolutely have the right to your opinion, in fact I respect it alot.

Clessidor · Apr 16, 2019

Gotdatmoney said:
It's always interesting how it's always white people doing blackface in the spirit of authentically playing a character but there isn't this huge swath of black people painting themselves white to play a character. Despite you know, there being way more fucking white characters than black ones to choose from. Makes you wonder why that is.

Honestly, I think this has more to do with the fact how overrepresent white people are in media. A white person probably still see a PoC as an exception and consider their skin color as an important "character trait". So they think "XY has to be black" and do these kind of things. That's why probably almost never hear from PoC doing the same. White people aren't perceived by beeing defined by their skin colour as much as black pleople are.
It just shows how far off we still are in represantation of diversities.

Sim · Apr 16, 2019

damn near a decade i've been hearing about blackface in parts of the eu being excused in gaf and now here

doesn't seem like there's any learning going on but folks are still not allowed to be angry about it apparently

Black Mantis · Apr 16, 2019

Fahdi said:
I don't think you understand:

What defenders of blackface gloss over is the fact that blackface cannot escape its history. It's a history of one group of people exercising power over another group. And blackface today is still about power. When white people don blackface, make excuses for it and dismiss black people's objections they are saying: we decide the dominant narrative and there's nothing you can do about it. They are saying we choose to ignore the fact that blackface influenced how white people saw black people in the nineteenth century, and in our more connected globalised world how it influences the way people everywhere see black people even today.

But it takes a wilful blindness to history not to mention a lack of empathy to ignore what the practice was created to convey, the environment in which it was created and everything it rehashes for black people every time someone dons blackface: slavery, colonialism, segregation, oppression, the devaluation of black existence, the institutionalisation of racism (even in the legal systems then and now), inequality and white privilege, and the desire to maintain white privilege while pretending we are now all equal.

However, in this thread, I understand that this "cosplayer" wasn't doing it on purpose or for malice. I just think people have a lack of understanding and need to educate themselves for it.

Great post, should be added to the OP in every thread of this type.

Gotdatmoney · Apr 16, 2019

Fahdi said:
I'm not going to dignify you with a response because of your aggressive demeanor. Have some respect

Naw. What you said is not worthy of respect. And you aren't answering it because you know you're wrong. Pretending black people are over marginalizing themselvez and making white people scared to be themselves is a literal joke.

Fahdi · Apr 16, 2019

Gotdatmoney said:
Naw. What you said is not worthy of respect. And you aren't answering it because you know you're wrong.

My perspective as a POC isn't wrong. It challenges the main narrative of the "majority" even though I understand the full context of the problem. Have a good day.

Black Mantis said:
Great post, should be added to the OP in every thread of this type.

Thank you. This is not mine, I found it from an excerpt from this article and thought it be posted for importance for people to understand.
https://thisisafrica.me/dear-white-people-please-stop-equating-whiteface-blackface/

atomsk eater · Apr 16, 2019

Fahdi said:
Sure, but aren't there exceptions to this where Black men have been put into jail because of a false allegation by women? Even though they did nothing? I agree change doesn't come about from being silent and you absolutely have the right to your opinion, in fact I respect it alot.

Something like Emmet Till's case is so far removed from the metoo movement that I think it doesn't help either to try to conflate them. Black men being accused and convicted of sexual crimes with little to no evidence or proper trial because they're easy scapegoats for scum is not the same as women feeling empowered to speak out against their abusers without fear of losing their social standing or jobs.

Finale Fireworker · Apr 16, 2019

We are closing it's thread while we review its contents.

Finale Fireworker · Apr 16, 2019

Official Staff Communication

Regardless of your local or individual experience with blackface, it is offensive and degrading to black-skinned people all around the world. It is not just an American issue. Its normalization in cultures without major black populations does not mean it isn't a degrading and racist caricature that is insulting to the people it imitates. Someone not realizing the gesture is offensive does not negate its impact or the way it makes black people feel. It is not acceptable to excuse racist behavior on the basis of nationality or culture.

The conversation in this thread can now resume. We hope it will be a learning experience for anyone who is not familiar with why this behavior is unacceptable. Members excusing or justifying racist behavior will be moderated.

Truner · Apr 16, 2019

EDIT: Disregard this, I cannot read. :V

jviggy43 · Apr 16, 2019

Just here to give props to the mods for that response. Thank you

henhowc · Apr 16, 2019

Yup. Normalizing the behavior is the problem when you're hand waving this away as not a big deal. Hence why you're getting called out if you're making posts like "but no one in my country thinks this is offensive"

Prine · Apr 16, 2019

Thank you, the volume of hand waving in this thread is simply astonishing.

Osiris397 · Apr 16, 2019

Unfortunately, it never surprises me when I see these things. I don't know why people keep saying, "I don't understand..." like it's a comprehension problem when it's not. It's totally about rebelling against the idea that "They aren't ALLOWED to walk around in public or post pictures publicly in black face." They feel it's a violation of their privilege and innate authority to do whatever they want and tell people how to respond to their decisions even though they themselves deny and refuse to accept that characterization for obvious reasons.

ody · Apr 16, 2019

so many slaps on the wrists

"try harder" is the message being sent to these racist fucks

DevilPuncher · Apr 16, 2019

ody said:
so many slaps on the wrists

"try harder" is the message being sent to these racist fucks

Agreed. Seeing a ban message along the lines of "Excusing blackface" followed by a one or two week ban is incredibly disheartening.

Kaako · Apr 16, 2019

Wow, wtf is wrong with people.

SurrenderDorothy · Apr 16, 2019

Honestly baffled with how many of these pricks handwaved this like it was no big deal.

Super Havoc · Apr 16, 2019

Gotdatmoney said:
Naw. What you said is not worthy of respect. And you aren't answering it because you know you're wrong. Pretending black people are over marginalizing themselvez and making white people scared to be themselves is a literal joke.

Yeah, from what I read this is what I got from that post as well. Not a good look from that guy but he shows some promise in other posts at least.

And this chick is garbage seeing as she continued doing it after being told and banned. She knows what she's doing and doesn't give a damn. Stop excusing her shit people.

Swiggins · Apr 16, 2019

Oof...

Twitch Punishes White Apex Legends Cosplayer Who Painted Her Face Black (read Staff Post before posting)

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account

#REFANTAZIO SWEEP

Chicken Chaser

Love each other or die trying.

Love each other or die trying.

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account

Aggressively Mediocre

was promised a tag