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Twitch Punishes White Apex Legends Cosplayer Who Painted Her Face Black (read Staff Post before posting)

Oct 26, 2017
6,803
UK
I mean, that's the thing. People need to be taught on the topic versus just getting jumped on.
There's no teachable moment beyond that's racist so stop. If people start bringing up white tradition in response they're always going to be racist because you can't teach somebody to value the perspectives of minorities over tradition.

It's not a problem of which country we should "go by". The very thought of the whole world should "go by" a certain country's tradition and custom is extremely imperialism and racist in itself. We are not talking about a broad universal concept like "equal right" here. We are talking about one specific custom, one social taboo that strictly exists in one country that accounts for 4% of the world's population. How many Chinese or Indian or Indonesian or Brazilian social taboos do you know?
Because it is a broad universal concept? You don't need to be smart to realise a historically oppressed group won't appreciate their oppressors dressing up as them for fun/clout/comedy. Beyond that there's no reason not to call bullshit racist traditions or acts racist on the internet and it's pathetic that people still feel the need to defend them here. I don't care about your feelings if you want to defend blatant racism because you/those you care about are okay with it, you can't do that without being racist yourself and you're not going to change if you care more about them than the minorities who are telling you that it's fucked up.
 
Oct 27, 2017
874
There’s no way you don’t know better by now. I refuse to believe someone is completely oblivious, especially as a cosplayer at this point
It's an issue with russians and easter european cosplayers, they are infamous for it. I bet they pat themselves in the back and tell and encourage eachother bc it's okay ,they aren't americas.
 

tommyz2kool

Banned
Member
Dec 13, 2017
689
User Banned (1 Month): Dismissive commentary concerning blackface; previous severe infractions
I do believe (some) people when say that they have no conception of black face being a bad thing due to lack of context. Like when that korean cosplayer got called out for doing Sombra brownface, most of the complaints came from the US. People in mexico (from what I could tell) didn't give a shit or actually thought she did a good cosplay.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,490
It's an issue with russians and easter european cosplayers, they are infamous for it. I bet they pat themselves in the back and tell and encourage eachother bc it's okay ,they aren't americas.
You know American is anyone that lives in this continent? From Canada to Chile.

But of course, gringos can't understand that.
 
Oct 26, 2017
761
This is rich from the dude confusing Lithuania with Russia lmao
Nah I just read she was Russian in the original twitter thread that was going around and didn't feel the need to read a second article about it. A flub for sure, but much less embarrassing than defending blackface
 
Oct 28, 2017
5,991
Ask yourself this, how come you only see white people paint themselves dark but not the other way for costumes? The skin color isn't the character, need to stop treating it as such.
This is kind of a tangent, but again in another country (Japan) this is actually totally normal. Right near my apartment is a skin whitening booth that takes your picture and makes you look more like a white person in skin tone. It even advertises on the side with a caucasion model, and shows the Japanese face becoming more like that model.

I'm not defending blackface (or what I just mentioned) by any means, but the cultural context outside of America and the UK can be largely ignorant to how offensive it is. In this case it seems like she wanted to look more like the character without the proper knowledge of what blackface is. I don't know jack about Lithuania but it's an eastern European country so she may very well have been lacking the proper cultural context.

Either way, I doubt she'll do it again.
 

BernardoOne

Banned
Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,287
Nah I just read she was Russian in the original twitter thread that was going around and didn't feel the need to read a second article about it. A flub for sure, but much less embarrassing than defending blackface
Saying that a random ass person from Lithuania doesn't know what blackface is isn't defending blackface. I already said more than once that the ban is fair.
 
Oct 25, 2017
405
ITT: lots of Europeans who somehow miss our Zwarte Piet threads every year. Blackface is not OK.



Well, that’s disappointing. I was hoping she at least learned something from this experience.
I'm going to guess she got a lot of reinforcement and other people hand-waiving away the issue on that Russian site. The fact she's only sorry people were hurt, and not sorry about the actual blackface, speaks volumes to me (now that I read her apology a bit more closely).
 
Oct 27, 2017
874
You know American is anyone that lives in this continent? From Canada to Chile.

But of course, gringos can't understand that.
I know because I'm south american but mostly of people in this thread are using it to refer to USA so I do it, I'm pretty sure people know what I mean. Encuentro bien sospechoso que solo me cuestiones a mi cuando varios usuarios en este tema han utilizado America=USA. Blackface is not okay from Canada to Chile, like I said I'm from South america and I know it's wrong, not because it's wrong in USA but because you can't cosplay a race.

I'm not gringo, owned loser
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,490
I know because I'm south american but mostly of people in this thread are using it to refer to USA so I do it, I'm pretty sure people know what I mean. Encuentro bien sospechoso que solo me cuestiones a mi cuando varios usuarios en este tema han utilizado America=USA. Blackface is not okay from Canada to Chile, like I said I'm from South america and I know it's wrong, not because it's wrong in USA but because you can't cosplay a race.
Sorry, in a bad mood today. Thought you were a gringo too.

I'll just drop it and leave this thread. If I continue like this, I'll probably get a ban.
 
Oct 25, 2017
7,443
Sorry, in a bad mood today. Thought you were a gringo too.

I'll just drop it and leave this thread. If I continue like this, I'll probably get a ban.
"American" is generally associated with citizens of the U.S. because we don't have our own "-an" to use (like Canadian, Mexican, Chilean, etc.) United Statesian never caught on for some reason.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,238
"American" is generally associated with citizens of the U.S. because we don't have our own "-an" to use (like Canadian, Mexican, Chilean, etc.) United Statesian never caught on for some reason.
pretty sure they know that they're just trying to reclaim the term american to mean anyone from north, south or central america. why they would want to reclaim it with all its baggage is beyond me as an estadounidense
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,960
This is kind of a tangent, but again in another country (Japan) this is actually totally normal. Right near my apartment is a skin whitening booth that takes your picture and makes you look more like a white person in skin tone. It even advertises on the side with a caucasion model, and shows the Japanese face becoming more like that model.
Skin whitening, while disgusting in it's own right, isn't the same as temporary paint as a costume.
 
Oct 28, 2017
300
Manila
To be honest, I didn't know about blackface before I read about it on NeoGaf. And I don't mean just that it is offensive, I did not know that people actually did it at all. So I don't find it hard to believe that others don't know about it either.
 
Oct 25, 2017
405
To be honest, I didn't know about blackface before I read about it on NeoGaf. And I don't mean just that it is offensive, I did not know that people actually did it at all. So I don't find it hard to believe that others don't know about it either.
She kept posting pictures of her blackface even after the ban, so honestly, it doesn't really matter at this point if she knew or didn't. Despite being banned and told it was offensive, she kept at it.
 
Oct 26, 2017
8,489
Madrid
This is such a thorny issue; blackface means different things in the US / UK than it means in the rest of the world. It may be unfortunate but it is what it is; without the context of minstrel shows, the practice itself isn't taboo to most European cultures.

That said, Internet has gone a long way towards universalizing values (for better or worse, which is another discussion). In Spain, a lot of people will still look at you as if you were utterly insane if you suggested that King Baltasar tradition is remotely racist, but a couple decades ago that percentage would be pretty much 100%. Nowadays you at least have some hope of getting the point across, especially among younger generations.

pretty sure they know that they're just trying to reclaim the term american to mean anyone from north, south or central america. why they would want to reclaim it with all its baggage is beyond me as an estadounidense
It is beyond you why someone from America but not the US might possibly take issue with the term "American" excluding them?

Like, really?
 
Nov 1, 2017
2,651
Unless you're playing an alien or fantasy race, there is no reason to change your skin color for a costume. If you think you have to change your skin color for people to know who you are, your costume sucks.
 
Oct 27, 2017
868
Gentrified Brooklyn
This is kind of a tangent, but again in another country (Japan) this is actually totally normal. Right near my apartment is a skin whitening booth that takes your picture and makes you look more like a white person in skin tone. It even advertises on the side with a caucasion model, and shows the Japanese face becoming more like that model.

I'm not defending blackface (or what I just mentioned) by any means, but the cultural context outside of America and the UK can be largely ignorant to how offensive it is. In this case it seems like she wanted to look more like the character without the proper knowledge of what blackface is. I don't know jack about Lithuania but it's an eastern European country so she may very well have been lacking the proper cultural context.

Either way, I doubt she'll do it again.
Its different though. Because white skin is seen as beautiful and dark skin “ugly” due to colonialism and intentionally pushed beauty standards you have “skin bleaching” products sold in Asia, Africa, etc... basically in most non “white” countries. Its seen as the ideal, which misses the point or blackface now and traditionally, to be able to be a ‘minority’ as a temporary costume for shit and giggles. The goal of those products/operations is to be as permanently close to caucasian as possible

Its less to do with ‘racism’ a la blackface, more so fucked up that they are trying to be as ‘white’ as possible because their natural complexion and features are ‘ugly’
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,238
This is such a thorny issue; blackface means different things in the US / UK than it means in the rest of the world. It may be unfortunate but it is what it is; without the context of minstrel shows, the practice itself isn't taboo to most European cultures.

That said, Internet has gone a long way towards universalizing values (for better or worse, which is another discussion). In Spain, a lot of people will still look at you as if you were utterly insane if you suggested that King Baltasar tradition is remotely racist, but a couple decades ago that percentage would be pretty much 100%. Nowadays you at least have some hope of getting the point across, especially among younger generations.



It is beyond you why someone from America but not the US might possibly take issue with the term "American" excluding them?

Like, really?
is a self depreciating joke beyond you?
 
Oct 27, 2017
967
There's no teachable moment beyond that's racist so stop. If people start bringing up white tradition in response they're always going to be racist because you can't teach somebody to value the perspectives of minorities over tradition.
It always helps to know and understand why something is wrong vs just being told that it's wrong. In this case, painting your skin a different colour would not be inherently wrong in and of itself, it's the historical background that makes it wrong, the fact, that it was traditionally used to make fun of black people and perpetuate negative, racist stereotypes, etc. If that had not happened, there'd be nothing racist about it which then makes it easier to understand why, in parts of the world that haven't had as systematic a history with blackface and black suppression as the US does (or countries where that history isn't really common knowledge - a lot of black suppression at the hands of European countries happened in their former colonies where most ordinary citizens back home wouldn't have seen it and it thus had a harder time entering into the public conscience), some people have a harder time grasping why it's so problematic.
 
Jan 19, 2018
363
She didn't. Obviously. She got punished. Hopefully she learned.

Edit: Americans "refusing to believe" how things are in the other parts of the globe is about as ignorant as what she did. Blackface is pretty much never discussed or learned in many parts of the world (like mine). This is not super unlikely, guys.
well zwartepiet is a thing and they dont find it offensive for some reason

In The Netherlands we are having this debate. Painting your face black is wrong, but there isn't always malicious intent. If people aren't aware of the negative aspects of blackface, because they've never heard about it.. how should they know it's wrong?

I've been talking with many people in my village about this. Their standard response is: ''I'm not a racist, but black pete is black pete and he should stay black. It's tradition.''

Calling them racists in their face hasn't worked well.
.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,238


That "joke" (being generous here) only works if you start with the assumption that "American" already means "US resident", so...
you mean the assumption that started that entire conversation?

It's an issue with russians and easter european cosplayers, they are infamous for it. I bet they pat themselves in the back and tell and encourage eachother bc it's okay ,they aren't americas.
you didn't get the joke. that's okay. no need to go on some herculean effort to poke holes in it so you come off as intelligent.
 
Jan 21, 2018
2,335
How many more of these blackface disasters need to happen before people get that its NOT ok under any circumstance? Saying "I just thought I'd...." is pointless, you just don't ever do this.
 
Nov 6, 2017
392
Black face is fucking horrifying. I remember when I was 16 my friend's neighborhood was throwing like a Halloween block party. He found a bunch of face paint and I did like half black half red. I remember his dad came up to me and was like "hey, I know you didn't mean to do black face but that's kinda what you did and it's not cool" so I took it off.

That was when I was 16 and dumb. We should know by now that painting your skin black is not cool and has a dark and shitty history.
What? If your face was like one side black and one side red then that’s not black face.
 
Oct 26, 2017
3,137
It's too bad twitch has zero inconsistency dealing with racism...and other things.

It's pretty pathetic.

And I don't know how this streamer somehow missed out on countless other blackface nonsense that has popped up even this past year. Not to mention all the other years for the longest time.
 
Oct 25, 2017
195
For those that don't understand why blackface is offensive I'll link some videos on YouTube that explain the historical significance and why it shouldn't be a thing anymore.

 
Oct 27, 2017
92
I think what she did was culturally insensitive, but in context was not malicious.

She should be reprimanded and informed of why this is a bad idea. I hope she doesn't have her life ruined for a boneheaded mistake, which is something we all make.

As for the broader global perception of blackface, I suppose the density of black folk in your respective region would dictate the relevance. In any nation where a disparity exists between large groups of white and black folk, blackface would clearly carry more weight. It isn't hard for me to understand or accept how Americans in this thread can be so upset, while perhaps folks from more remote parts of the globe are more sympathetic.
 
Oct 25, 2017
7,443
Yeah, I mean that exactly. For your joke to land you have to concede that you consider "Americans" to mean "US residents", which is precisely the point of contention.
Which is a silly point of contention since we don't really have a better word than "American" to describe such people.
 
Oct 26, 2017
8,489
Madrid
Edit: Americans "refusing to believe" how things are in the other parts of the globe is about as ignorant as what she did. Blackface is pretty much never discussed or learned in many parts of the world (like mine). This is not super unlikely, guys.
US people assuming the rest of the world is like them by default, disbelieving foreigners when they tell them otherwise, and generally being unable to even conceive of any other country being different, is the most US thing ever. It's provincian and almost kind of endearing, but also understandable; unlike the rest of the world, they aren't continuously exposed to a foreing country's mass media to let them compare and contrast like everyone else does (because, of course, the omnipresent mass media that the rest of the world is exposed to are the US' very own).
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,238
US people assuming the rest of the world is like them by default, disbelieving foreigners when they tell them otherwise, and generally being unable to even conceive of any other country being different, is the most US thing ever. It's provincian and almost kind of endearing, but also understandable; unlike the rest of the world, they aren't continuously exposed to a foreing country's mass media to let them compare and contrast like everyone else does (because, of course, the omnipresent mass media that the rest of the world is exposed to are the US' very own).
i'm sorry they said "Americans" how did you parse that they meant "US people"?
 
Oct 26, 2017
8,489
Madrid
Which is a silly point of contention since we don't have a better word than "American" to describe such people.
Americans: 9 letters, 4 syllabes.
US people: 8 letters (9 with the space), 4 syllabes.

i'm sorry they said "Americans" how did you parse that he meant "US people"?
The point of contention is not that "Americans" cannot be discerned to mean "US people" by context (like in this case); it's that it erases other American countries and people.
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,858
maybe we're looking at this the wrong way

white people are so desperate to do blackface maybe black people could get some massive collective concession if you all voted to allow it
 
Nov 2, 2017
97
User Banned (1 Week): Dismissive commentary concerning blackface
She wasn't doing it to mock black people, which is traditionally why blackface was used. She was just trying to be more visually similar to an established (and popular) black character. I think people should give her a break.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,238
Americans: 9 letters, 4 syllabes.
US people: 8 letters (9 with the space), 4 syllabes.



The point of contention is not that "Americans" cannot be discerned to mean "US people" by context (like in this case); it's that it erases other American countries and people.
oh wow you really don't get it
 
Oct 28, 2017
6,403
It's always interesting how it's always white people doing blackface in the spirit of authentically playing a character but there isn't this huge swath of black people painting themselves white to play a character. Despite you know, there being way more fucking white characters than black ones to choose from. Makes you wonder why that is.
 

Slayven

You probably post about me on another board.
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
29,925
It's always interesting how it's always white people doing blackface in the spirit of authentically playing a character but there isn't this huge swath of black people painting themselves white to play a character. Despite you know, there being way more fucking white characters than black ones to choose from. Makes you wonder why that is.
Makes you feel good when folks put you in the same box as Namekins, Dark Elves, Orcs, etc.
 
Oct 25, 2017
7,443
Americans: 9 letters, 4 syllabes.
US people: 8 letters (9 with the space), 4 syllabes.
This is a very "non US person" idea.

We also use "American" in our own day to day conversation, as I'm sure people in your country do with Spaniard/Spanish. "I don't like US people cars" doesn't roll off the tongue. "US people food is so high in fat." "Doctor Strange has a funny sounding US people accent."

This is an impossible thing to try and change. "American" became a thing because our founding fathers chose a stupid country name and now we're stuck with it.
 
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