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Twitch Punishes White Apex Legends Cosplayer Who Painted Her Face Black (read Staff Post before posting)

Oct 27, 2017
55
User Banned (1 Week): Inflammatory false equivalencies surrounding race
More common than you think, especially in Europe and other places outside of North America. I've seen many instances where people in the UK of all places can't grasp what's wrong with it.
Yep as an european, I don't understand the problem in a cosplay context. And I would react the exact same way had she been a black woman painting her face in white
 

Primal Sage

Banned
Member
Nov 27, 2017
561
User Banned (2 Weeks): Justifying blackface
No one in my family know what black face is.
No one in my family knows that doing it could be interpreted as racist.

I’m in Europe. We aren’t “ignorant”. The concept of black face simply is not a thing here.

Americans, please stop assuming everyone is like you.

I’ve seen a lot of cosplays. The number one goal is to attain a look as close to the target as possible. With that in mind it makes perfect sense (to a non-American) to paint her face.
 
Dec 7, 2017
318
I'm from africa and i never legit knew 'blackface' was a thing

this might be my first scenario of it and i don't feel offended because she wasn't being comical or disingenuous of blacks in general (i think) also, i like the character lifeline from apex

judging from the thread tho it's an incredibly racist thing so twitch did good and she seemed sorry i guess.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,238
No one in my family know what black face is.
No one in my family knows that doing it could be interpreted as racist.

I’m in Europe. We aren’t “ignorant”. The concept of black face simply is not a thing here.

Americans, please stop assuming everyone is like you.

I’ve seen a lot of cosplays. The number one goal is to attain a look as close to the target as possible. With that in mind it makes perfect sense (to a non-American) to paint her face.
can paint her body and face black
can't find blue latex gloves
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,802
Oh, we doing the 'she didn't know' thing again like she doesn't have access to the internet?

That excuse doesn't work anymore when information is so freely available.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,814
United Statesian never caught on for some reason.
The US started as a collective of States (as in, nation states). There's the famous line that people said "The United States are" before the Civil War, and "The United States is" afterward. The thought before the Civil War was that "America" as a unified country was not a thing.

So for demonyms, I imagine most people in the early days used their state's demonym before using American (EG Virginians, New Yorkers, etc...)

I’ve seen a lot of cosplays. The number one goal is to attain a look as close to the target as possible. With that in mind it makes perfect sense (to a non-American) to paint her face.
Do. Not. Paint. Your. Face. Black.
 
OP
OP
Dracil
Oct 30, 2017
451
No one in my family know what black face is.
No one in my family knows that doing it could be interpreted as racist.

I’m in Europe. We aren’t “ignorant”. The concept of black face simply is not a thing here.

Americans, please stop assuming everyone is like you.

I’ve seen a lot of cosplays. The number one goal is to attain a look as close to the target as possible. With that in mind it makes perfect sense (to a non-American) to paint her face.
Then why did she do such a poor job on the rest of the cosplay?

Also cosplay is not always about attaining the closest look as possible. Genderbends and mashups are also a thing. Creativity is allowed.
 

Yavga

Banned
Member
Dec 20, 2017
441
User Banned (1 Month): Downplaying racism. Previous severe infraction.
Oh, we doing the 'she didn't know' thing again like she doesn't have access to the internet?

That excuse doesn't work anymore when information is so freely available.
Racism isn’t as prevalent everywhere in the world as it is in America, in some countries colored people don’t understand why people “want to be a victim that bad” and that’s not my text. That’s just a different viewpoint from a different country because things work differently elsewhere. Wouldn’t it be better if people sincerely don’t think it’s racism to paint your face black or white? What if we managed to combat racism so much making these situations possible?

At one point in the future we must reach a point where we can say that racism is more or less dead (hopefully) at that moment, still calling things like these racism will probably only keep the very idea of racism alive.
 
Last edited:
Oct 28, 2017
534
Denmark
Oh, we doing the 'she didn't know' thing again like she doesn't have access to the internet?

That excuse doesn't work anymore when information is so freely available.
I mean, it seems like a lot of people in this very thread didnt know that there exists cultures besides their own. And that shit is thaught in school.

Do you google everything before you do them? If you didnt know it was bad why would you google it.

Her apology doesnt seem like much of an apology though.
 
Feb 8, 2019
134
User Banned (1 Week): Dismissive commentary concerning blackface
Im german and have access to the internet since 1994 and to this day i dont knew that its a BIG nono for whites to cosplay as blacks. Must be a cultural thing in the US.
 
Nov 15, 2017
1,903
No one in my family know what black face is.
No one in my family knows that doing it could be interpreted as racist.

I’m in Europe. We aren’t “ignorant”. The concept of black face simply is not a thing here.

Americans, please stop assuming everyone is like you.

I’ve seen a lot of cosplays. The number one goal is to attain a look as close to the target as possible. With that in mind it makes perfect sense (to a non-American) to paint her face.
Well now you know
Spread the word :3
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,344
No one in my family know what black face is.
No one in my family knows that doing it could be interpreted as racist.

I’m in Europe. We aren’t “ignorant”. The concept of black face simply is not a thing here.

Americans, please stop assuming everyone is like you.

I’ve seen a lot of cosplays. The number one goal is to attain a look as close to the target as possible. With that in mind it makes perfect sense (to a non-American) to paint her face.
Funny, i'm from Europe too and i know the concept of black face. And so are my friends and my family. Try to educate them, instead of defending them.

Oh and

DO
NOT
PAINT
YOUR
FACE
BLACK

Cosplay isn't an excuse. If she's doubling down, she's dumb and doesn't need people to defend them.
 

Ichi

Banned
Member
Sep 10, 2018
1,997
User Banned (Permanent): Excusing Blackface; History of Severe Infractions
Why. Is. This. So. Hard. To. Understand.
Because America and American history aren't the center of everyone's lives and world.

She lives in freaking Lithuania. Why in the world would she know about blackface? She was doing it with good intentions.

Americans are literally the first one decrying things they find offensive yet the offensive shit they do are passed on as humour or some other bullcrap. Some Lithuanian painted her face black to represent a character she likes - wow she's so dumb - meanwhile American tourists posing butt naked in religious sites, wearing shorts and tank tops in shrines, etc do you think these Americans think they're being offensive? No. They think it's all normal. See how perspective works?

To anyone saying wow why did she not Google - I mean seriously? Who Googles whether or not painting their face in any colour as offensive? Again, America is not the center of the world. Stop applying your standards elsewhere because more often that not you're the one breaking and disrespecting cultural norms from and in other countries. Ridiculous that some girl in some country has to know about blackface. It's you who made fun of others by doing that, why should others who never did anything have to bear the responsibility of educating themselves of mistakes you caused and perpetuated?

Imagine you go to some country you've never heard of and you tell them to not paint their faces because of a shitshow you put on a century ago.
 
Oct 27, 2017
623
User Banned (1 Week): Excusing Blackface
I live in Europe and I dont see anything offensive here, because it's just a cosplay and she wanted to look as closely to the character as possible, but judging by your comments Tropic Thunder should be one of the most offensive movies out there and Robert Downey Jr. career should have ended with this movie. I know it isn't the best comparison, but come one, it's sitting with a score of 7 on IMDb and I never heard that this movie is racist. Would it be ok if I cosplayed Robert Downey Jr from Tropic Thunder? Even to this day people constantly use "survive" gif which should be super racist but somehow isn't? I don't know, this racism thing is confusing.
 

Madjaba

Banned
Member
May 16, 2018
80
User Banned (2 Weeks): Excusing blackface and downplaying racism
As an European, I can't see what was wrong with her cosplay. She didn't mean to do it in an offensive way, as for the Griezmann controversy it's more of a tribute there's no mockery and it's a sort of tribute.

Colors exist like it or not, we just don't have the kind of bad association Americans have regarding skin color. That's why there's no understanding in this thread between non Americans which are talking about the intent of such cosplay and that they are not meant to mock or caricature black people and Americans which consider those things as taboo.

While I understand both point of view, some people are really being narrow-minded and going hard on people without taking into account our cultural differences.

Besides, I don't think that forbidding black people cosplay (AND COSPLAY ONLY !) is a very good way to move forward on those kind of social issues even though I can clearly understand what could be found offensive but people need to have a little more faith in others.
 
OP
OP
Dracil
Oct 30, 2017
451
I live in Europe and I dont see anything offensive here, because it's just a cosplay and she wanted to look as closely to the character as possible, but judging by your comments Tropic Thunder should be one of the most offensive movies out there and Robert Downey Jr. career should have ended with this movie. I know it isn't the best comparison, but come one, it's sitting with a score of 7 on IMDb and I never heard that this movie is racist. Even to this day people constantly use "survive" gif which should be super racist but somehow isn't? I don't know, this racism thing is confusing.
So I looked this up. Seems like the reason it isn't as heavily criticized because it was actually a meta-criticism on the usage of blackface. Akin to the "whiteface" in White Chicks.

i.e. they're commentaries and laughing at blackface, not black people.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,802
I mean, it seems like a lot of people in this very thread didnt know that there exists cultures besides their own. And that shit is thaught in school.

Do you google everything before you do them? If you didnt know it was bad why would you google it.

Her apology doesnt seem like much of an apology though.
You don't even have to Google shit, just simply existing on the internet is enough to see the stories. And the fact that she doubled down should be telling enough.

This excuse is bullshit.

Besides, I don't think that forbidding black people cosplay (AND COSPLAY ONLY !) is a very good way to move forward on those kind of social issues even though I can clearly understand what could be found offensive but people need to have a little more faith in others.
There are plenty of white characters they can cosplay as.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,344
I live in Europe and I dont see anything offensive here, because it's just a cosplay and she wanted to look as closely to the character as possible, but judging by your comments Tropic Thunder should be one of the most offensive movies out there and Robert Downey Jr. career should have ended with this movie. I know it isn't the best comparison, but come one, it's sitting with a score of 7 on IMDb and I never heard that this movie is racist. Even to this day people constantly use "survive" gif which should be super racist but somehow isn't? I don't know, this racism thing is confusing.
You almost got me ahah, i thought you were serious for a second
 

Voxl

Self-requested ban
Member
Oct 27, 2017
234
She didn't. Obviously. She got punished. Hopefully she learned.

Edit: Americans "refusing to believe" how things are in the other parts of the globe is about as ignorant as what she did. Blackface is pretty much never discussed or learned in many parts of the world (like mine). This is not super unlikely, guys.
That. She fucked up, she got punished and hopefully she learned something.
 
Oct 28, 2017
534
Denmark
You don't even have to Google shit, just simply existing on the internet is enough to see the stories. And the fact that she doubled down should be telling enough.

This excuse is bullshit.



There are plenty of white characters they can cosplay as.
You don't even have to Google shit, just simply existing on the internet is enough to see the stories. And the fact that she doubled down should be telling enough.

This excuse is bullshit.
You are mistaken, I didnt make any excuse.

And no, simply "existing" on the internet doesnt mean shit. Just like there exist other countries besides america there also exists non american websites.
 
Nov 15, 2017
1,903
I actually believe her
Just take the L and learn from it in the future
I get it, not all the countries educate people on things, some of them downplay historic events like the Southern US or Asian countries, hell states in the fucking US are removing shit from textbooks, looking at you fucking texas
 

Madjaba

Banned
Member
May 16, 2018
80
Yeah, pretty much. She got banned for it, right?
Yup, by an American company applying American sense of justice.
It's a slap on the hand that should warn her that those kind of things are not allowed on Twitch.

But Twitch isn't defining how the world has to be nor Americans people can either.
 
Oct 31, 2017
5,428
You don't even have to Google shit, just simply existing on the internet is enough to see the stories.
You seem to be intentionally ignoring many posters in this thread. You don't know all the exact internet habits of people around the world are

Also in the cases I brought up for Asian countries, most overseas asians don't speak/read english. Also for China have you heard of their great Fire Wall?
 
Apr 11, 2019
38
"She didn't know she was ignorant"

Ignorance is a major part of the problem with racism, and the spread of hate, ignorance and apathy, which I'm seeing a lot of in this thread. Some of ya'll need to stop trying to justify this kind of thing.
 
Oct 26, 2017
2,576
Question for the Americans, but before I ask I'm fully onboard in the opinion that blackface is racist.

That Lifeline photo in the OP is pretty much the same colour as most white teenage girls in Scotland, or at least how they looked when I was at school.

They weren't trying to be a black character though, they just used way too much fake tan and makeup and that was the fashion then.

Is what those girls did more or less racist? Is it the tone itself that is racist or the intent?
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,802
You seem to be intentionally ignoring many posters in this thread. You don't know all the exact internet habits of people around the world are

Also in the cases I brought up for Asian countries, most overseas asians don't speak/read english. Also for China have you heard of their great Fire Wall?
You have a bad habit of defending racist YouTubers (PewDiePie last time, right?) So yeah, I'm going to ignore you completely

Yup, by an American company applying American sense of justice.
It's a slap on the hand that should warn her that those kind of things are not allowed on Twitch.

But Twitch isn't defining how the world has to be nor Americans people can either.
She is on their platform and has to abide by their rules, regardless of what country it exists in.
 

Lusankya

Banned
Member
Oct 27, 2017
313
User Banned (1 Month): Excusing Blackface Over a Series of Posts
Well, I actually know what blackfacing is, yet I still don't see the issue here. She wanted to cosplay as one of her favorite video game characters so she made a costume to look like her. I don't see how this is disrespectful or ignorant, she is not representing a caricature of a black person. This is more like paying a tribute and not doing what is being described in the Wikipedia article.
 

Ichi

Banned
Member
Sep 10, 2018
1,997
I wonder. Do the people who don't understand blackface have a bunch of non-white people who paint themselves white to look like white characters?

If yes, uhm, that's fucking weird.

If no, take about five seconds to think about why this phenomenon seems to be almost exclusively happening in one direction.
is this a joke? people from all over the world dress up as whites and paint themselves whites in shows or ads or whatever. Whites, blacks, whatever.

You know why? newsflash - almost everywhere isn't a melting pot of diverse ethnicities, that's why people dress up, paint their skin, wear other culture's clothes. Not to disrespect because unlike Americans who dressed up to perpetuate racial shit, others just dress up for the fun of it, for entertainment, or to just make them appear to be more similar to what they're trying to dress up as - that's why it's called dress up. And no, no one bats an eye because unlike America, others don't have a history of donning a blackface to shit on their enslaved people.

So yeah, not fucking weird. It's called "living outside the walls of the United States"

the condescending tone of Americans here and how "they just don't get how how how people are so stupid to do blackface, wow so dumb, what an idiot" is one of the most myopic hubris i have ever seen. Literally is myopic in how they view the world, and hubris in thinking they expect people from continents away to conform to standards they set because of a shitshow they did.
 
Oct 25, 2017
702
Well, I actually know what blackfacing is, yet I still don't see the issue here. She wanted to cosplay as one of her favorite video game characters so she made a costume to look like her. I don't see how this is disrespectful or ignorant, she is not representing a caricature of a black person. This is more like paying a tribute and not doing what is being described in the Wikipedia article.
As long as society treats poc the way they do, I don't want to see my skin color used as a costume ez.
 

Madjaba

Banned
Member
May 16, 2018
80
"She didn't know she was ignorant"

Ignorance is a major part of the problem with racism, and the spread of hate, ignorance and apathy, which I'm seeing a lot of in this thread. Some of ya'll need to stop trying to justify this kind of thing.
There are things that can be justified if you have good arguments and some posters here are providing some.
 
Oct 31, 2017
5,428
You have a bad habit of defending racist YouTubers (PewDiePie last time, right?) So yeah, I'm going to ignore you completely
not that I can recall

if you're referring to that huge thread "PewDiePie attempts to distance himself from Christchurch Mosque shooter who pledged support"

I actually have that thread ignored and did not post one single time in it. feel free to use the search function and look in it
 

Fahdi

Banned
Member
Jun 5, 2018
503
User Banned (2 Weeks): Rationalizing and excusing blackface over a series of posts
Blackface is racist.
Cosplay isn't.
Not everyone is American.
Education needs to happen.

I'm a POC; so when someone wears bronze makeup on their face or tans into my brown shade, it's not racist to me. When I wear a suit from the west, I don't transform into a European.

Other Dumb Examples

America has a problem with Nudity in media.
America is alright with absolutely crazy violence in media.
Europeans don't have the same standards.
America is not the world police for ethnocentric dominance.

This argument is stupid as hell because we all know her intent wasn't racist. I'm not going to side with her ignorance either. She learned a lesson but people are too god damned sensitive.
 

Madjaba

Banned
Member
May 16, 2018
80
You have a bad habit of defending racist YouTubers (PewDiePie last time, right?) So yeah, I'm going to ignore you completely



She is on their platform and has to abide by their rules, regardless of what country it exists in.
That's what she did, she just didn't understand why she was banned. Now she does and won't do it again obviously. But you're clearly mistaken the point of the discussion apart from giving points to the people denouncing some rather heavy narrow-minded attitude here.

+ Bonus points for trying to discredit a person because of past messages and not talking about the thread at all...
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,864
Oh, we doing the 'she didn't know' thing again like she doesn't have access to the internet?

That excuse doesn't work anymore when information is so freely available.

Not knowing isnt an excuse or a pass on doing something bad.

But not knowing is still a thing. Not everyone use the internet the same way. Even to this day there are a lot of people ignorant about the concept of black face.
 

Lusankya

Banned
Member
Oct 27, 2017
313
I wonder. Do the people who don't understand blackface have a bunch of non-white people who paint themselves white to look like white characters?

If yes, uhm, that's fucking weird.

If no, take about five seconds to think about why this phenomenon seems to be almost exclusively happening in one direction.
Well, I do understand blackface, however I don't agree with you at all. E.g. in East Asian countries white skin is seen as beautiful so a lot of people will brighten their skin. While e.g. in central Europe among caucasians it's beautiful to have a darker skin, so they use indoor tanning or other ways to get a tan.

As long as society treats poc the way they do, I don't want to see my skin color used as a costume ez.
They use all skin colors for their costumes and they do it because they love the (fictional) characters. Cosplay is not the same as Blackface, for starters the intention is positive and it is not restricted to one skin color.
 
Mar 21, 2018
353
Netherlands
Blackface is a symbol of hate, so of course the ban is correct.

It's interesting how, in calling out ignorance outside of the US, some of you can be entirely ignorant of the world outside the States. People here in Europe often aren't very aware of their own problematic colonial past, much less the history of a country an entire ocean away. This desperately needs to improve, but 'just use Google' isn't the answer.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,802
That's what she did, she just didn't understand why she was banned. Now she does and won't do it again obviously. But you're clearly mistaken the point of the discussion apart from giving points to the people denouncing some rather heavy narrow-minded attitude here.

+ Bonus points for trying to discredit a person because of past messages and not talking about the thread at all...
Lol, narrow minded.

That's cute.
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,864
I wonder. Do the people who don't understand blackface have a bunch of non-white people who paint themselves white to look like white characters?

If yes, uhm, that's fucking weird.

If no, take about five seconds to think about why this phenomenon seems to be almost exclusively happening in one direction.

Yeah, the concept of blackface is fairly easy to grasp. I can understand saying "I never heard about it before". I cant understand the "I dont understand why it's offensive."
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,240
She went on to contend that she “just wanted to be similar to Lifeline from Apex...it wasn’t meant to have [sic] a joke of anyone. It was just a cosplay, guys, for my favorite legend from a computer game.” The Twitch streamer says that she didn’t mean for her cosplay “to be painful for anyone” and apologized to those who were hurt.
Do a good job with the costume, wig, accessories, etc and there will be 0 reason to paint your skin because you're already visibly similar in every other way.

It's really annoying this keeps happening, there's been a lot of continuing conversation in the cosplay community about blackfacing (and in some cases white cosplayers or social media personalities changing their eyes or skin to look "more Asian") and people are all too happy to talk over POC who are, for the most part, pretty vocal and clear about finding that unacceptable.
 
Oct 27, 2017
354
So I looked this up. Seems like the reason it isn't as heavily criticized because it was actually a meta-criticism on the usage of blackface. Akin to the "whiteface" in White Chicks.

i.e. they're commentaries and laughing at blackface, not black people.
It's actually more of a criticism about Hollywood not casting black people in lead roles, to the point of a white method actor having to use blackface to fit the role.

The blackface is more used to point out how absurd the situation is given that the audience is presumed to already know that blackface is bad.
 
Oct 30, 2017
126
As someone from Asia who knows about certain level of African American histroy, I didn't know what blackface is until now, and even though I dont have any data to support me, I would say majority of the Asian don't know about it as well, it's a thing far from common sense here base on my 'Asian common sense'.

I do feel sorry for those who offended but I also think she did not do it intentionally, hope she learns, I learned.
 
Apr 14, 2019
6
There are 193 countries (Un Member States)in the world and every one of these has a different culture (it is even more complex than this). In my opinion it is impossible to be familiar with every single one of these.
Can everyone of the people in here that are so outraged name things that would be equally offensive to a person in Benin or in Togo or in Estland?

It is not ok to knowingly do something offensive, but in my book, the focus here should be on educating people rather than to punish them.
Not everything that is offensive to someone is done with malice, it may very well be a misunderstanding because of cultural differences.
"Let him who is without sin cast the first stone", this actually fits the problem very well, so everyone that knows everything about every culture in the world can be outraged here, everyone else should try to be a bit more understanding.