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Deleted member 9971

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
9,743
The intent doesn't matter and ignorance isn't an excuse. The fact that people are willing to hide behind tradition to celebrate something larges swathes of people (people who suffered and are still suffering the unbridled effects of colonialism and racism) are still harmed by should tell you that sometimes it's not about how you feel. I believe you recognize that.

If it were up to "tradition" we would still have slavery and caste systems too.
Almost no kid in the netherlands ever thought that way tbh honestly i hope they just get it over with and go with soot covered piets cuz they go through a chimney that would fix it all. As in soot/ash spots over them instead of a full black face. Cuz these days that whole discussion is ruining it for children just change it and move on done.

That would satisfy everyone.
 

Tibarn

Member
Oct 31, 2017
13,369
Barcelona
User Banned (1 Week): Characterising blackface as an American concern.
I wasn't aware that painting your face black is a no-go, even if you do it with good intentions (as I think she had..?)

The things I learn..
Same here. In Spain this kind of costumes (with the painted face) were quite common during the carnival party in February (maybe they still are, I haven't attended to the party for a few years). The same way we have another public holiday on December where 3 disguised guys give presents to the child, one of them is black-skinned and as in many little towns or cities there's no volunteer to do the job, most of the times someone paints his face (the role is always a male, at least traditionally).

So I can understand if someone don't understand the problem with this, if I think about the costumes I'm used to see in carnival it's pretty obvios that the roots are racist and the way they portray dark-skinned people is offensive and caricaturesque, so I think it's nice to slowly make people think about it and correct it.

It should also be nice for some USA people to stop thinking that they are at the center of the world, and that other countries may not associate this to racism.
 

Crowh

Member
Nov 20, 2017
333
I'm risking being banned but just wanted to remind you that there's no concept of blackface in Russia. Only like 0,000001% of people who are deeply curious about American culture know about blackface and that it is considered as a bad thing in the USA.
I live in Moscow and I can guarantee that if you go on the streets and ask like 20.000 people there would be a hundred at max that heard something about that phenomenon.
Same thing for me, in my country (Chile) I'm sure that pretty much no one knows about this topic, here that would just be considered a "normal" cosplay, I understand why this is bad, but not everyone knows about stuff.
 

FancyPants

Banned
Nov 1, 2017
707
can someone explain the context here since I'm not from the U.S ?

No. You should know better automatically, because the US exports a lot of entertainment. Also, you should've googled this beforehand. Also, it's unbelievable and inconcievable that you don't know any better. /s

(sorry, I'm getting frustrated here)

This thread alone is filled with people not knowing the history, and people are still not understanding that that's possible.
 

Wetwork

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,607
Colorado
You πŸ‘πŸ» Don't πŸ‘πŸ» Have πŸ‘πŸ» To πŸ‘πŸ» Change πŸ‘πŸ» Skin πŸ‘πŸ» Color πŸ‘πŸ» To πŸ‘πŸ» Cosplay πŸ‘πŸ»

Fuck man
 

Deleted member 3208

Oct 25, 2017
11,934
The United States is the biggest exporter of entertainment

The rest of the world fucking knows the confrontations behind blackface.
Nope. Here in Panama seems to be a tradition, something I didn't know until today. And we were basically a US colony while the gringos still had the Canal.

Hell, if it wasn't because I visited the old forum and this one, I would be quite ignorant on many issues about racism, sexism and LGBTQ.
 
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Acorn

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,972
Scotland
Yeah but there's stuff that can be written off as a spur of the moment mistake like shouting a slur in frustration (wrong but ultimately an out of character mistake), and then there's things like this which take hours of preparation and presumably days of planning.
I dunno, I've seen too many people do dumb as hell shit for views. I could be being too cynical ofcourse but it's hard to shake the feeling it's a stunt.
 

Timurse

Member
Oct 28, 2017
35
Moscow, Russia
Remember when people conceptualized Obama as a monkey in Russia back in like 2016

You know you're a slime defending open bigotry in your country if you gotta preface your comment with "risking a ban here"

Stand up for your bigotry and stop wasting my time
Guys, I know it's so easy bringing a torch up but come on.
I know the concept of blackface. I wouldn't do that myself. I'm just trying to explain why people in other countries do it so openly and don't know the wrong of that. No need to put labels on ME for that. Jeez, that's why I hate posting anything here.
 

23qwerty

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,500
You...

Didn't realize that other countries who didn't have a history of minstrel shows to the degree the US did (like her country) might not know what blackface or why it's offensive is?

What?

Cut her some slack. She's been punished and hopefully know not to do it now. If she did it out of ignorance then let's not hang her out to dry for a mistake like this.
She's streaming a video game on Twitch, she knows
 
Oct 25, 2017
19,165
Ah damn son it's too early for our yearly "Users lie/play dumb and pretend blackface is only an issue in the States" thread.
How many people will be "just asking queestions, bro!" this time.
 

FancyPants

Banned
Nov 1, 2017
707
I'm done with this thread. Good lord. Telling people to know the history, then attacking people for telling anecdotes and asking questions about the history. Wtf is this.
 

Deleted member 5864

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,725
Almost no kid in the netherlands ever thought that way tbh honestly i hope they just get it over with and go with soot covered piets cuz they go through a chimney that would fix it all. As in soot/ash spots over them instead of a full black face. Cuz these days that whole discussion is ruining it for children just change it and move on done.

That would satisfy everyone.
Children don't think like that because children aren't born racist. Zwarte Piet is not the only example in the world, but it keeps coming up because there is an innate refusal to acknowledge and modernize it to the benefit of minorities and harmed groups.
 

SuikerBrood

Member
Jan 21, 2018
15,484
I'm done with this thread. Good lord. Telling people to know the history, then attacking people for telling anecdotes and asking questions about the history. Wtf is this.

Yeah, me too. I understand the pain and harm this causes for many people and I agree that Twitch did the right thing here. But asking for some acknowledgement of different 'social debates' depending on the country is too much it seems.

Thanks to the people explaining to me why it is bad in all cases and that it has a historical reason. Do think explaining and discussing these kind of social issues is a better way to educate each other than some posts in here..
 

Krov87

Member
Oct 31, 2017
45
User Banned (1 Week): Dismissive commentary concerning blackface
For those claiming y'all don't know because y'all from such and such, let me know so i can Google your country name + racism or Nazi. Folks really on some clown shit in this thread.
Of course there is racism in all over of the world.
Its just that outside of NA, painting your face with other skin tone is not seen as a racist act.
People would understand why it can be seen as a racist act if explained.
 
I'm risking being banned but just wanted to remind you that there's no concept of blackface in Russia. Only like 0,000001% of people who are deeply curious about American culture know about blackface and that it is considered as a bad thing in the USA.
I live in Moscow and I can guarantee that if you go on the streets and ask like 20.000 people there would be a hundred at max that heard something about that phenomenon.
Russia is one of the most racist countries on the planet, a super Nazi country where black men that date white women are living in fear of their life, fucking nonsense
 

Lant_War

Classic Anus Game
The Fallen
Jul 14, 2018
23,529
User Banned (1 Week): Dismissive commentary concerning blackface
ITT: Americans thinking they're the center of the universe

No, not the whole world knows what blackface is or why it's offensive. It's likely that the girl here legit had no idea. Doesn't make it right of course, but saying things like "just Google it!" is incredibly stupid.
 

Kyra

The Eggplant Queen
Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,239
New York City
But the character shes portraying is black guys. Noone would know who she was cosplaying as and her black freinds said it was ok.
 

Jakisthe

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,544
There is no excuse for this when you can educate yourself on internet
People keep saying this, but if there's no cultural conception of why something might be bad in a country where there is much less awareness of what this is in the first place, why would someone look up the cultural connotations and history of something which, to them, is just a random element of their cosplay?
 

Omegamon

Alt Account
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,884
Of course there is racism in all over of the world.
Its just that outside of NA, painting your face with other skin tone is not seen as a racist act.
People would understand why it can be seen as a racist act if explained.
The problem is that a lot of them get super defensive when it's explained and continue to do it, they pull the "well, it's not racist in my country"(why?) even when it's explained to them

That's not what I said sis
I wasn't refering to you. I'm talking in general because this is very common for europeans, especially eastern europeans for some reason
 

Deleted member 9971

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
9,743
This is the liberal Dutch prime minister next to someone with the traditional 'black pete' face paint. Not a cry was heard.
MuSYdeH.jpg


A lot of educating has to be done.
well that explains why the dude is still single lol despite being kinda rich.
 

BobLoblaw

This Guy Helps
Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,278
A character's race isn't part of a costume, assholes. You won't see a black person painting their face white in order to dress as Super Man. Idiots.
 

BernardoOne

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,289
The United States is the biggest exporter of entertainment

The rest of the world fucking knows the confrontations behind blackface.
That's one of the dumbest, most imperialistic shit i've ever read. No, the world isn't magically linked to the United States, and mainstream american media that gets exported doesn't usually address blackface, no. No, the random average Lithuanian won't have any idea whatsoever of what blackface is. The ban is absolutely fair and hopefully she has been sucessfully educated about it now.
 

Wink784

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,208
User Banned (1 Week): Dismissive commentary concerning blackface
Non american, apologised, seemed genuinely appreciative of the character, has nothing to do with the original intention of blackface (ridiculing black people or casting whites in roles cause "people don't wanna see minorities on screen"). So she's oblivious, big whoop, can't let that get under your skin. Now she knows, good for her.
 

SuikerBrood

Member
Jan 21, 2018
15,484
The problem is that a lot of them get super defensive when it's explained and continue to do it, they pull the "well, it's not racist in my country"(why?) even when it's explained to them

It's racist everywhere. Don't think I deny that?

That's one of the dumbest, most imperialistic shit i've ever read. No, the world isn't magically linked to the United States, and mainstream american media that gets exported doesn't usually address blackface, no. No, the random average Lithuanian won't have any idea whatsoever of what blackface is. The ban is absolutely fair and hopefully she has been sucessfully educated about it now.

Bingo.
 

DigitalOp

Member
Nov 16, 2017
9,272
If you're using "ignorance" as a defense for doing blackface, then you're just a fucking idiot.

Takes 1 second of brainpower to understand why painting your skin a different color is a bad idea.

So sorry mate, if your country is painting their face to celebrate then it's full of fucking idiots, your friends and family included. For some reason it's always targeting black people. You never see stereotypical insulting red paint for natives or yellow paint for Asians....

But then you fucking morons want to piss on us and tell us it's raining, go fuck off
 

Opto

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
4,546
ITT: Americans thinking they're the center of the universe

No, not the whole world knows what blackface is or why it's offensive. It's likely that the girl here legit had no idea. Doesn't make it right of course, but saying things like "just Google it!" is incredibly stupid.
It's only every week we have a thread on some idiot ding blackface
 

23qwerty

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,500
If you're using "ignorance" as a defense for doing blackface, then you're just a fucking idiot.

Takes 1 second of brainpower to understand why painting your skin a different color is a bad idea.

So sorry mate, if your country is painting their face to celebrate then it's full of fucking idiots, your friends and family included. For some reason it's always targeting black people. You never see stereotypical insulting red paint for natives or yellow paint for Asians....

But then you fucking morons want to piss on us and tell us it's raining, go fuck off
There's been dozens and dozens of stories of this exact same damn thing happening over and over and over again and people have the gall to say oh but people in other countries don't know! Sure.
 

Omegamon

Alt Account
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,884
People keep saying this, but if there's no cultural conception of why something might be bad in a country where there is much less awareness of what this is in the first place, why would someone look up the cultural connotations and history of something which, to them, is just a random element of their cosplay?
Plenty of non americans know and have learned that it is bad. It's not some super obscure thing and cosplayers should know about it since is a discussion in the community
 

Timurse

Member
Oct 28, 2017
35
Moscow, Russia
Russia is one of the most racist countries on the planet, a super Nazi country where black men that date white women are living in fear of their life, fucking nonsense
Sorry, but I have a few black acquaintances in Moscow who date Russian girls. And they had as much problems as their Russian colleagues. They just don't blame it on racism as people get punched / stabbed / hit a lot in Russia no matter what nationality you are.
What people in the USA don't know is that there's a hhhhuuuuugeee nationalism towards middle-eastern people here – people from Kyrgizstan, Tadjikistan, Uzbekistan are treated like garbage in Russia unfortunately.
 

Lant_War

Classic Anus Game
The Fallen
Jul 14, 2018
23,529
It's only every week we have a thread on some idiot ding blackface
The whole world isn't on Era. It wasn't until I got on Reddit that I learned what blackface was, most people in the rest of the world legit don't know. You can still surprise some people today by explaining that the n word is offensive.