Don't know about the Zwarte Piet thing, but here in Spain the debate about the dark-skinned king has never been a big thing, only in some big cities like Barcelona, but ignored by most of the more rural areas. As I've said it needs to change and with time it'll surely do, but trying to label most Baltasars as racist is not something wise.
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Twitch Punishes White Apex Legends Cosplayer Who Painted Her Face Black (read Staff Post before posting)
- Thread starter Dracil
- Start date
Yeah, I don't know about that. They seem pretty racially motivated to me?
that's still been a conversation that's been going on for a few years now and i don't think rural spain is backwater enough to not be aware of the controversy. so again, if they know about it, but don't think that it matters, what should we think of them?
Yeah. Like, this is is a brand that sells their product in most stores in Spain right now:
People in mainland Europe can go months at a time without interacting with a black person. It's no wonder this shit keeps happening, but it doesn't make it any less wrong.
Did you even read the post you're responding to? At no point did he say anything like this, he's commenting on the many people saying it's impossible for people not to know. He even said it doesn't make it right. Fucking hell guys, you can be better than this.
There shouldn't be questions tbh. If someone says blackface is racist you should realize why, asking people why it is racist when it's sort of obvious comes as sealioning. Like I said, I'm not american and I understood why it was, didn't ask for a whole lesson about it.
I actually forgot to erase that part of my post lol. I knew someone would take issue with it since I didn't bother explaining myself at all and this is a very unpopular position (and I really was not up to defending myself right now). Well, too late now.
Since you asked, I don't want to perpetuate these kinds of attitudes and so try not to adopt them myself. The blackface of old was out-of-taste makeup that diminished everyone of black descent by presenting meager caricatures on-stage. What I see here is a girl who wants to dress up as a character she likes from a video game. I see no harm done in this, except in the minds of people directly affected by that crap. My personal opinion is that there should be an expiration date on such taboos, and any real harm that's done is in giving those mistakes the power to control us even now, to the extent that a girl just trying to make the best cosplay she can gets dogpiled by a bunch of strangers on the internet.
Maybe we're just not far enough removed from the racist connotations and I know I'm sheltered, but I hate this kind of stuff enough to speak up.
Russia is... a super Nazi country? lol
Blackface is a thing in the US because of our history with the minstrel show, a uniquely American flavor of racist bullshit. It makes sense that many in other countries wouldn't be familiar with it.
Probably. I just discovered about this right now and was wondering what was wrong with she using make up to darker her skin. Had no idea this is an offense in the US. Welp.
Ideally, one has a responsibility to be educated on social issues. There are many outlets that offer the information. Whether one cares enough to actively pursue that knowledge is ultimately on them. Playing ignorant because the phenomenon is not known in your part of the world will never excuse it, genuine ignorance or not.
Educate yourself. If you're made it so far as to find your way onto a forum that is as progressive as ERA (ideally) you're already taking one step. Take a step further.
If you've already made a mistake in ignorance, own up to it, apologize and try learning from it. Something this cosplayer is already forgetting.
Educate yourself. If you're made it so far as to find your way onto a forum that is as progressive as ERA (ideally) you're already taking one step. Take a step further.
If you've already made a mistake in ignorance, own up to it, apologize and try learning from it. Something this cosplayer is already forgetting.
Good lord. Is it so hard to not black face?
Couldn't you just as easily wear the costume and not do the shitty blackface?
Couldn't you just as easily wear the costume and not do the shitty blackface?
Blackface is blackface, her intent only matters when it comes to how severe her punishment is.
But the fact she kept posting pictures of the cosplay after her ban, makes me believe she does not seem to actually care or want to understand the social ramifications of doing this.
Edit: Responded to quote on first page; went to last page only to find I'm the dozenth person to make the same point.
I remeber when I was a teenagers and used sites like Deviantart, mostly of the nazis wannabes there where Russian or Polish for some reason
I mean, that's the thing. People need to be taught on the topic versus just getting jumped on.
Yep, I forgot about it but it used to be really popular.
Agreed, but as we know lots of people don't even think about this, as you said the contact with black people is really limited in some regions and usually people don't think about things that are not in their daily routine. Which makes them ignorant, and condemning ignorance is another topic IMO.
I think she probably didn't know this is considered offensive. And its not like she was doing the full-on minstrel style black face, she just darkened her skin as part of cosplaying a dark skinned character. I'm hopeful that this type of thing is a one-time fuckup where you learn your lesson, take your licks, and don't do it again.
you don't have to know, see, be familiar with any black people to know that SKIN COLOR is not a cosmetic choice or costume.
you can dress up as a person of color by matching their wardrobe and style
this is like slanting your eyes to "look asian". i feel that is somehow more obvious and doubt people would defend it.
how are people like "oh i didn't know i didn't intend to"
you can dress up as a person of color by matching their wardrobe and style
this is like slanting your eyes to "look asian". i feel that is somehow more obvious and doubt people would defend it.
how are people like "oh i didn't know i didn't intend to"
100% my exact same read. If she didn't know it wasn't okay, here's the chance to learn that and grow. But that shit has consequences.
If it was about intent, they would paint a shade of color a dark skin person can actually be without being in a accident.
In 10/10 cases the character's costume is distinct enough that folks would know what they are without spreading shit on your skin. The fact folks think black people look like that speaks volumes in itself
maybe that taboo will be gone when people aren't discriminated against because of the color of their skin
This is indeed the first time I hear about this, if you tell me about blackface, my first reaction would be the Peking Opera facial makeup, where black face means the character is series, dignified or straight forward (while white face stands for cunning and suspicious).
But the real question is, where is this girl from? If she's from the US, she should know she's not suppose to do it. I searched her on the Internet and it seems she's from east Europe and doesn't speak English well? If that's the case I think a fair warning should do instead of an immediate ban.
It's not a problem of which country we should "go by". The very thought of the whole world should "go by" a certain country's tradition and custom is extremely imperialism and racist in itself. We are not talking about a broad universal concept like "equal right" here. We are talking about one specific custom, one social taboo that strictly exists in one country that accounts for 4% of the world's population. How many Chinese or Indian or Indonesian or Brazilian social taboos do you know?
But the real question is, where is this girl from? If she's from the US, she should know she's not suppose to do it. I searched her on the Internet and it seems she's from east Europe and doesn't speak English well? If that's the case I think a fair warning should do instead of an immediate ban.
It's not a problem of which country we should "go by". The very thought of the whole world should "go by" a certain country's tradition and custom is extremely imperialism and racist in itself. We are not talking about a broad universal concept like "equal right" here. We are talking about one specific custom, one social taboo that strictly exists in one country that accounts for 4% of the world's population. How many Chinese or Indian or Indonesian or Brazilian social taboos do you know?
white nationalism is huge in russia, pointless as they are already a white country but yes, skinheads are huge there.
I am myself Russian. Well, Russian citizen, but my nationality is Tartar. Boy, I got thousands of jokes about that my entire life. We just don't perceive that as something horrible. We got bigger problems here. And yeah, as I wrote before, there are nationalities here in Russia that are generally treated like garbage which is horrible. Russia is a very racist country on the everyday level. But that's a part of our life. And believe me if people here want to offend you they wouldn't use such obscure methods like blackface, they would just swear and curse openly right in your face.
Yeah but looks like she doubled down after being banned, so the second time she knew about it.
This isn't blackface. It is neither harmful nor demeaning. To take it as such is an extreme that makes little sense when you understand that actual historical significance of black face.
There's nothing to understand. It's an overreaction to an oversimplified issue.
So why did you seem to object to
'Russia is one of the most racist countries on the planet' if you think Russia is so racist?
Also that doesn't really change how Black people view race relations, with only 8% calling it good and over 50% saying it's tense?
I'm sorry, but you don't really get to decide if it's harmful or demeaning. Plenty of people find it to be just that, and it does not have to be Mammy levels of ridiculous for it to be considered offensive.
Come on guys we can give her a break, how could she possibly be expected to know this when all she was doing was *checks notes* streaming herself on an international website on the worldwide web? It's not like this is a huge point of controversy in the *checks notes* cosplay community.
Nah. The history of blackface dictates that any modern blackface is unacceptable, regardless of intent.
A 30-day ban is an appropriate response, even if she had no malicious intent. You can't do this shit. If she really didn't know before, she does now. And she'll be back on Twitch in a month.
You can't really separate ignorance from the foundation of racism. You will not get anywhere without doing so. And frankly what this comes down to is said ignorant people will feel some type of way if the reality of what they casually thing is all fun and games is in fact very offensive and called for what it is.
Learning to read would probably help you, because she is not Russian, and I doubt the cosplay communities of Lithuania and United States interact all that often.
I mean, Green and purple people aren't real. So, yeah it's probably okay to paint your skin like a Twilek if you want.
I am white. I did Halloween dressed as Flavor Flav ( I LOVED P.E. back in the day...Well, still do) . I had a track suit, a giant clock around my neck, some jewellery, shades, and a top hat. That's enough props. I didnt do any makeup, people knew who i was. If you think that doing makeup to show the ethnicity of the person you're dressed as, then it's just not a good idea to continue.
Like others have said, I can't excuse someone who has access to the internet. I doubt the cosplay community isn't aware of it.
Besides, she doesn't seem to have learned anything after Twitch banned her. Bet ya she will try to do that shit again.
She's on a platform based in America. Whether she's from another country or not, her intent is not how the audience or the staff of Twitch perceives what she did.
There's no way you don't know better by now. I refuse to believe someone is completely oblivious, especially as a cosplayer at this point.
*This person wearing blackface isn't doing blackface*