Twitch Punishes White Apex Legends Cosplayer Who Painted Her Face Black (read Staff Post before posting)

Clap3rap · Apr 16, 2019

There are 193 countries (Un Member States)in the world and every one of these has a different culture (it is even more complex than this). In my opinion it is impossible to be familiar with every single one of these.
Can everyone of the people in here that are so outraged name things that would be equally offensive to a person in Benin or in Togo or in Estland?

It is not ok to knowingly do something offensive, but in my book, the focus here should be on educating people rather than to punish them.
Not everything that is offensive to someone is done with malice, it may very well be a misunderstanding because of cultural differences.
"Let him who is without sin cast the first stone", this actually fits the problem very well, so everyone that knows everything about every culture in the world can be outraged here, everyone else should try to be a bit more understanding.

Artorias · Apr 16, 2019

Why are people still defending this woman? She kept posting her racist pictures even after being told it was gravely offensive to a large population of people, and after getting banned.

She's no longer a poor, misguided Lithuanian woman that simply didn't know any better.

Oligarchenemy · Apr 16, 2019

atomsk eater said:
and people are all too happy to talk over POC who are, for the most part, pretty vocal and clear about finding that unacceptable.

That's pretty much this thread in a nut shell.

shotopunx · Apr 16, 2019

Primal Sage said:
No one in my family know what black face is.
No one in my family knows that doing it could be interpreted as racist.

I'm in Europe. We aren't "ignorant". The concept of black face simply is not a thing here.

Americans, please stop assuming everyone is like you.

I've seen a lot of cosplays. The number one goal is to attain a look as close to the target as possible. With that in mind it makes perfect sense (to a non-American) to paint her face.

Nonsense. I'm European, and I know full fucking well that this is an incredibly disrespectful thing to do. As do my family and friends.

Deleted member 2809 · Apr 16, 2019

Yavga said:
Racism isn't as prevalent everywhere in the world as it is in America, in some countries colored people don't understand why people "want to be a victim that bad" and that's not my text. That's just a different viewpoint from a different country because things work differently elsewhere. Wouldn't it be better if people sincerely don't think it's racism to paint your face black or white? What if we managed to combat racism so much making these situations possible?

At one point in the future we must reach a point where we can say that racism is more or less dead (hopefully) at that moment, still calling things like these racism will probably only keep the very idea of racism alive.

Holy fuck what a trashfire post

Deleted member 22585 · Apr 16, 2019

Sweep14 said:
Yep as an european, I don't understand the problem in a cosplay context. And I would react the exact same way had she been a black woman painting her face in white

I'm kinda surprised at the backlash. Also from Europe and have no context about blackface, don't see why she shouldn't cosplay like this because for me, it's obvious that it wasn't intended to offend people.
But I'm from a different culture with a different history so what do I know. Only thing that I see is that it does look pretty shitty and strange.

Using blackface to mock people is bad, I agree. I doubt this was her intention though.

Oligarchenemy · Apr 16, 2019

Shugga said:
Holy fuck what a trashfire post

Yeah, the lack of moderation in this thread is discouraging.

GhostTrick · Apr 16, 2019

regawdless said:
I'm kinda surprised at the backlash. Also from Europe and have no context about blackface, don't see why she shouldn't cosplay like this because for me, it's obvious that it wasn't intended to offend people.
But I'm from a different culture with a different history so what do I know. Only thing that I see is that it does look pretty shitty and strange.

Using blackface to mock people is bad, I agree. I doubt this was her intention though.

It's pretty simple:
A race isn't a costume. You dont "wear" a color.
Blackface started as a racist thing that was to grossly imitating in a racist way black people. While it still retained the same meaning today, it's easy to understand why a lot of people dont want to see their skin color treated as a mere costume.

DieH@rd · Apr 16, 2019

FancyPants said:
Edit: Americans "refusing to believe" how things are in the other parts of the globe is about as ignorant as what she did. Blackface is pretty much never discussed or learned in many parts of the world (like mine). This is not super unlikely, guys.

My country has no awareness about blackface, it can be used without issues.

However she used international platform, some research would have helped her avoid this.

atomsk eater · Apr 16, 2019

Madjaba said:
That's what she did, she just didn't understand why she was banned. Now she does and won't do it again obviously. But you're clearly mistaken the point of the discussion apart from giving points to the people denouncing some rather heavy narrow-minded attitude here.

+ Bonus points for trying to discredit a person because of past messages and not talking about the thread at all...

Acinixys said:
She double doubled down

She posted more pictures and a message to all her fans on Instagram thanking them for supporting her in her time of need

If Acinixys's post is true then she hasn't really learned and is still happy to post pictures even when explained why black face can be outright hurtful for black folks.

"She just wanted to pay tribute to a black character" is fine, but when you do something insensitive or hurtful the best thing to is apologize and rectify the situation, regardless of whether you did it with good intentions. Take pictures w/o the skin color-altering makeup applied and use those going forward, it doesn't seem like a hard decision to me over doubling down and continuing to use the same pics.

PixelatedDonut · Apr 16, 2019

Lusankya said:
They use all skin colors for their costumes and they do it because they love the (fictional) characters. Cosplay is not the same as Blackface, for starters the intention is positive and it is not restricted to one skin color.

Where did I say this was blackface.....I said I don't want my skin color used as a costume. Hell after the she was told how people feel about her "costume" she kept posting pictures. Why is it hard for you to understand?

The Vathlonian · Apr 16, 2019

DieH@rd said:
My country has no awareness about blackface, it can be used without issues.

However she used international platform, some research would have helped her avoid this.

what country

Bhonar · Apr 16, 2019

shotopunx said:
Nonsense. I'm European, and I know full fucking well that this is an incredibly disrespectful thing to do. As do my family and friends.

what about all the other europeans who have posted in this thread who said the same thing?

I'm not european myself, but I do know there are many different european countries and I can only assume lots of them have totally different cultures. especially if including all the different Russia/CIS countries as well

newmoneytrash · Apr 16, 2019

DieH@rd said:
My country has no awareness about blackface, it can be used without issues.

However she used international platform, some research would have helped her avoid this.

there isn't a country in the world where blackface is acceptable

The Vathlonian · Apr 16, 2019

Since when is being European an excuse? Y'all have never heard of Zwarte Piet and all of the controversy and protests surrounding it?

Madjaba · Apr 16, 2019

atomsk eater said:
If Acinixys's post is true then she hasn't really learned and is still happy to post pictures even when explained why black face can be outright hurtful for black folks.

"She just wanted to pay tribute to a black character" is fine, but when you do something insensitive or hurtful the best thing to is apologize and rectify the situation, regardless of whether you did it with good intentions. Take pictures w/o the skin color-altering makeup applied and use those going forward, it doesn't seem like a hard decision to me over doubling down and continuing to use the same pics.

I think all of this is the same situation. She did her cosplay, get flamed and banned, didn't understand it and wanted to prove that her intentions we good so she insisted and then get flamed again.

It's exactly similar to what Griezmann did and he was flamed multiple times before taken everything off his Instagram. It's just not obvious for everyone especially when it first was attempted as a tribute.

erraticpixels said:
Since when is being European an excuse? Y'all have never heard of Zwarte Piet and all of the controversy and protests surrounding it?

Nope. Didn't know about it before reading this thread.

PixelatedDonut · Apr 16, 2019

Europeans in here forgetting their own history.....

Bhonar · Apr 16, 2019

erraticpixels said:
Since when is being European an excuse? Y'all have never heard of Zwarte Piet and all of the controversy and protests surrounding it?

as an american (citizen/nationality), I've literally never heard of the term Zwarte Piet until this thread

GhostTrick · Apr 16, 2019

erraticpixels said:
Since when is being European an excuse? Y'all have never heard of Zwarte Piet and all of the controversy and protests surrounding it?

The fact I had to Google it... yeah. Even though I knew about blackface before hand. Every time, I learn about a new festival or tradition in another European country. Denmark, Belgium and now Netherlands that has a blackface character or festival. Europe isn't a monolithic culture.

Mendrox · Apr 16, 2019

regawdless said:
I'm kinda surprised at the backlash. Also from Europe and have no context about blackface, don't see why she shouldn't cosplay like this because for me, it's obvious that it wasn't intended to offend people.
But I'm from a different culture with a different history so what do I know. Only thing that I see is that it does look pretty shitty and strange.

Using blackface to mock people is bad, I agree. I doubt this was her intention though.

I don't know why people assume everyone knows that. I only learned that on here through the Off Topic area and many articles where people complained and I can understand, but it sucks that everyone assumes bad intentions immediately.

GlamFM said:
99% of my country (Germany) have no clue that "Blackface" is offensive.

TBH I think I learned through GAF a couple of years ago. I get it, I agree with it, but I had to be made aware of it.
Blackface is still a "costume" you will see everywhere in Germany during carnival.

Educate, don´t punish.

And USA, please stop thinking you are the center of the universe and the entire globe should know what you have going on.

Yep good to know that I didn't miss something in school, uff. I too learned that on GAF back then.

Deleted member 2321 · Apr 16, 2019

99% of my country (Germany) have no clue that "Blackface" is offensive.

TBH I think I learned through GAF a couple of years ago. I get it, I agree with it, but I had to be made aware of it.
Blackface is still a "costume" you will see everywhere in Germany during carnival.

Educate, don´t punish.

And USA, please stop thinking you are the center of the universe and the entire globe should know what you have going on.

Dan Thunder · Apr 16, 2019

newmoneytrash said:
there isn't a country in the world where blackface is acceptable

I think what they mean is 'White people in my country have no awareness about blackface, it can therefore be used without issue'!!

newmoneytrash · Apr 16, 2019

Mendrox said:
but it sucks that everyone assumes bad intentions immediately

If you don't know enough about a person's race to know that painting your skin that colour is offensive then maybe you shouldn't be dressing as them in the first place

Deleted member 54674 · Apr 16, 2019

Primal Sage said:
No one in my family know what black face is.
No one in my family knows that doing it could be interpreted as racist.

I'm in Europe. We aren't "ignorant". The concept of black face simply is not a thing here.

Americans, please stop assuming everyone is like you.

I've seen a lot of cosplays. The number one goal is to attain a look as close to the target as possible. With that in mind it makes perfect sense (to a non-American) to paint her face.

Mubrik_ said:
I'm from africa and i never legit knew 'blackface' was a thing

this might be my first scenario of it and i don't feel offended because she wasn't being comical or disingenuous of blacks in general (i think) also, i like the character lifeline from apex

judging from the thread tho it's an incredibly racist thing so twitch did good and she seemed sorry i guess.

SuikerBrood said:
I don't really understand, why can't you paint your face in black when you are cosplaying a black character for a videogame? Please school me on this.

In The Netherlands we have this whole discussion about blackface, so I guess it's the same problem. But in The Netherlands, 'zwarte piet' has many negative colonial connotations. Is this the same?

Sorry for asking if it's disrespectful.

I am from the Netherlands as well and even coloured, many people are not aware of anything of this in Europe. We have zwarte piet and sinterklaas from Spain here in the Netherlands where its a national holiday primary for children to get presents from Sinterklaas. White people are painted black pretending to be black and work for sinterklaas in helping to bring all presents and candies to children (see image). As a child I never saw any offence and found the zwarte piet cool. Only later I found out some coloured people took offence of this holiday for obvious reasons (since the setting does resemble slavery) and this has been a debate in politics in the last few years.

Lusankya said:
She wanted to cosplay as one of her favorite video game characters so she made a costume to look like her. I don't see how this is disrespectful or ignorant, she is not representing a caricature of a black person. This is more like paying a tribute and not doing what is being described in the Wikipedia article.

I would like to think that it would still be allowed if a white person wants to paint themselves black, not out of disrespect but out of joy and respect, for example pretending to be a black hero. Otherwise wouldn't being coloured be seen as a shortcoming instead of something to be proud of in a way that it is not allowed to go and cosplay certain diseases and shortcomings.

Similar to the controversy around the soccer player Antoine Griezmann:

I believe he genuinely did not do this out of disrespect, but the opposite, out of respect and as representation of the 80s era where having a large afro was cool (may dad had this as well in the 80s). I still dont see an issue with this.

Edit: But in the end if many people take offence of these practises I do believe this must be respected

Primal Sage · Apr 16, 2019

shotopunx said:
Nonsense. I'm European, and I know full fucking well that this is an incredibly disrespectful thing to do. As do my family and friends.

Then you are a minority as the many "it's not a thing here" posts in this thread attest to.

Deleted member 2321 · Apr 16, 2019

newmoneytrash said:
there isn't a country in the world where blackface is acceptable

That´s simply not true.

Oligarchenemy · Apr 16, 2019

GlamFM said:
99% of my country (Germany) have no clue that "Blackface" is offensive.

TBH I think I learned through GAF a couple of years ago. I get it, I agree with it, but I had to be made aware of it.
Blackface is still a "costume" you will see everywhere in Germany during carnival.

Educate, don´t punish.

And USA, please stop thinking you are the center of the universe and the entire globe should know what you have going on.

I'm really starting to love these posts that basically say 'racism doesn't exist in my country.'

jipewithin · Apr 16, 2019

From wikipedia

Blackface is a form of theatrical make-upused predominantly by non-black performers to represent a caricature of a black person. The practice gained popularity during the 19th century and contributed to the spread of racial stereotypes such as the "happy-go-lucky darkyon the plantation" or the "dandified coon".

In this case, does this really happend? Is that cosplay caricature or does it spread racial stereotypes?

Deleted member 2321 · Apr 16, 2019

Oligarchenemy said:
I'm really starting to love these posts that basically say 'racism doesn't exist in my country.'

Read again.

Oligarchenemy · Apr 16, 2019

GlamFM said:
Read again.

No thanks.

Deleted member 2809 · Apr 16, 2019

Abdel said:
I believe he genuinely did not do this out of disrespect, but the opposite, out of respect and as representation of the 80s era where having a large afro was cool

Ah yes and he couldn't wear that wig without painting his body black

newmoneytrash · Apr 16, 2019

GlamFM said:
That´s simply not true.

Yes it is. Your ignorance doesn't make it acceptable

henhowc · Apr 16, 2019

Somehow this thread turned into a USA against the world thread.

Suddenly we the assholes instead of the people continuing to promote their use of blackface when they have been told it's offensive to many people. 🤔

WhiteNovember · Apr 16, 2019

erraticpixels said:
Since when is being European an excuse? Y'all have never heard of Zwarte Piet and all of the controversy and protests surrounding it?

You may not know this, but Europe is not a single country/culture. So no, not everyonr had heard of zwarte piet and the controversy.

Ada · Apr 16, 2019

I see ignorance being used as a shield in here. "I didn't know you couldn't do that". I'm from the EU and know exactly what blackface is.

newmoneytrash · Apr 16, 2019

henhowc said:
Somehow this thread turned into a USA against the world thread.

Suddenly we the assholes instead of the people continuing to promote their use of blackface when they have been told it's offensive to many people. 🤔

Yeah the idea that blackface has only been used in an offensive manner in America and *never* in Europe or anywhere else in the world is insane and people who try to peddle this nonsense only end up showing their whole entire ass

CortexVortex · Apr 16, 2019

GlamFM said:
And USA, please stop thinking you are the center of the universe and the entire globe should know what you have going on.

Exactly.

To be honest I would have never thought of this as offensive because she didn't make fun of anyone.
But this is an interesting thread for sure.

Bhonar · Apr 16, 2019

GlamFM said:
99% of my country (Germany) have no clue that "Blackface" is offensive.

TBH I think I learned through GAF a couple of years ago. I get it, I agree with it, but I had to be made aware of it.
Blackface is still a "costume" you will see everywhere in Germany during carnival.

Educate, don´t punish.

And USA, please stop thinking you are the center of the universe and the entire globe should know what you have going on.

yeah, I actually don't know many political/controversial subjects until I come across them first on ERA (or GAF in the past)

because outside of ERA I literally never watch any news, twitter, facebook, instagram... nothing. I rarely even go to Youtube, and even then it's never to randomly surf it, only for a specific video I'm looking up. Also I use addons to remove all recommendations/sidebars/comments & random content on Youtube

the only two things I'm interested in is video games and watching sports. 100% of my TV watching is only sports. so I don't know shit about news, except if someone on ERA happens to post something in the two gaming forums

Lusankya · Apr 16, 2019

Dan Thunder said:
I think what they mean is 'White people in my country have no awareness about blackface, it can therefore be used without issue'!!

I don't think it's about this. There just is a difference between Blackface (as in doing a caricature of a black person to mock them) and between painting your face in a different color for your cosplay because you really like that character you're cosplaying as.

Deleted member 543 · Apr 16, 2019

Oh one of these threads where people pretend blackface and racism are unheard of in Europe, in order to defend their racism.

GhostTrick · Apr 16, 2019

henhowc said:
Somehow this thread turned into a USA against the world thread.

Suddenly we the assholes instead of the people continuing to promote their use of blackface when they have been told it's offensive to many people. 🤔

As I said, not knowing beforehand isn't an excuse nor a pass for doing a blackface. People have legit reasons to be upset and hurt.

Lusankya said:
I don't think it's about this. There just is a difference between Blackface (as in doing a caricature of a black person to mock them) and between painting your face in a different color for your cosplay because you really like that character you're cosplaying as.

Blackface isn't about mocking people anymore. It's also the simple fact that a color or a race isn't a costume. It's not hard to understand that people don't want their ethnicity to be used as a entertainment.

Jasper · Apr 16, 2019

newmoneytrash said:
Yes it is. Your ignorance doesn't make it acceptable

What GlamFM means, I think is, it *is* accepted, in practice. While you mean, it never *should* be, which I hope we can all agree on.

Deleted member 2321 · Apr 16, 2019

newmoneytrash said:
Yes it is. Your ignorance doesn't make it acceptable

Wait, how am I ignorant?

Just saying that among the 195 countries in the world there are some who have different views.

These are not views I share, but saying they don´t exist is wrong.

Jasper said:
What GlamFM means, I think is, it *is* accepted, in practice. While you mean, it never *should* be, which I hope we can all agree on.

Of course.

Oligarchenemy · Apr 16, 2019

newmoneytrash said:
Yeah the idea that blackface has only been used in an offensive manner in America and *never* in Europe or anywhere else in the world is insane and people who try to peddle this nonsense only end up showing their whole entire ass

I hear Germany beat racism. Did not know that.

henhowc · Apr 16, 2019

Someone make a poll.

"Is blackface racist?" Lol

DosaDaRaja · Apr 16, 2019

Omegamon said:
do you think there is blackface that...isn't blackface?

It's a Goddess.

For more context, Kaali Ma. A lot of Hindu gods and goddesses have been depicted as having light/ blue skin since the past 1500 years or so, with her as the sole exception, only being depicted with dark blue or straight dark skin possibly due to her name as well as ...... fear of her? I guess. This kinda went hand-in-hand with the diminishing status of darker skinned folks in Indian society. So I kinda see these kinda depictions of certain deities as reclaimations, tho actually giving the role to a darker skinned person would be miles more preferable.

DieH@rd · Apr 16, 2019

newmoneytrash said:
there isn't a country in the world where blackface is acceptable

Here in Serbia and in several other Balkan countries, we have minimal presence of black population. As of now, anything goes, but that will surely change.

newmoneytrash · Apr 16, 2019

GlamFM said:
Wait, how am I ignorant?

Just saying that among the 195 countries in the world there are some who have different views.

These are not views I share, but saying they don´t exist is wrong.

No, it's still unacceptable. People who say "hey, we think this is good, actually" aren't just accepting people, they're *wrong*

There is never an excuse for this, under any circumstance. And arguing *for* it is arguing to belittle entire races of people

Deleted member 2809 · Apr 16, 2019

Kuraudo said:
Oh one of these threads where people pretend blackface and racism are unheard of in Europe, in order to defend their racism.

It never fails.
Good way to thin the herd at least.

TP-DK · Apr 16, 2019

Kuraudo said:
Oh one of these threads where people pretend blackface and racism are unheard of in Europe, in order to defend their racism.

Nah judging by your post its one of those threads where people have trouble reading.

Twitch Punishes White Apex Legends Cosplayer Who Painted Her Face Black (read Staff Post before posting)

User requested account closure

User requested account closure

Chicken Chaser

Chicken Chaser

User requested account closure

Virtually Real

User requested account closure

User requested account closure

User requested account closure

User requested account closure

User requested account closure