Twitter removing white nationalists verification

PSqueak

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,464
Can you explain why that's the case? I legitimately do not understand.
Like others have pointed out, checked mark accounts are usually more carefully protected by the Twitter admins, but now tolling those accounts will be largely done with impunity, plus the lack of verified status means that troll accounts can be made to discredit these asshats because officially verified accounts o longer exist for them.
 

Mr. Sam

Member
Oct 26, 2017
836
No one mentioned slippery slopes.
I feel like you did in as many words but whatever, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and I suppose we're getting besides the point:

I don't think those are necessarily clear lines. For instance, what if people organize harassment campaigns against nazis?
In this hypothetical situation, those people would be banned. However, this assumes there would be Nazis to harass, which - in the same hypothetical situation - wouldn't be possible. The problem as much as anything is that Twitter isn't applying its existing ToS as a blanket - it's giving organisers of hate special dispensation.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,482
Racoon City
Considering Poland is 98% Polish and 91% Catholic, I can't see why any sane person would be worried about "Islamic supremacism" in that country. Almost seems like there might be more to these "concerns," much like the "economic anxiety" we heard so much about.
Islam doesn't even make up a whole 1% in Poland I don't think. It's pretty much just racism
 

Talraen

Member
Oct 27, 2017
268
Connecticut
I feel like you did in as many words but whatever, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and I suppose we're getting besides the point:

In this hypothetical situation, those people would be banned. However, this assumes there would be Nazis to harass, which - in the same hypothetical situation - wouldn't be possible. The problem as much as anything is that Twitter isn't applying its existing ToS as a blanket - it's giving organisers of hate special dispensation.
A slippery slope argument would imply some theoretical issue in the future, I'm more interested on clarity on what the issue is right now. Nazis aren't the only group spreading hate on Twitter. But I can't fault your proposal's consistency - I'm just not sure whether I agree with it or not.

 

cwmartin

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,214
No one mentioned slippery slopes. I don't think those are necessarily clear lines. For instance, what if people organize harassment campaigns against nazis?
The harassers of nazis on the platform you agree shouldn't have nazis on it at all? Real circular logic we have going on here.

Which came first? The Nazi or the Nazi Harasser?

Tough pill to swallow. I feel like your trying to make a nuanced argument here, but just sound like your more concerned about the growth of silenced groups rather than real hate speech that gets spewed everyday on twitter.
 

Talraen

Member
Oct 27, 2017
268
Connecticut
The harassers of nazis on the platform you agree shouldn't have nazis on it at all? Real circular logic we have going on here.

Which came first? The Nazi or the Nazi Harasser?

Tough pill to swallow. I feel like your trying to make a nuanced argument here, but just sound like your more concerned about the growth of silenced groups rather than real hate speech that gets spewed everyday on twitter.
I wasn't passing judgment on nazi harassers, I was trying to determine if Mr. Sam's proposed rules were well thought-out. And he convinced me they are. I don't really know where I stand on this, that's why I'm having this conversation. The main thing I'm trying to determine is whether we want to rid Twitter of specifically nazis, or hate speech generally. And if the latter, how we should do that.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,482
Racoon City
Didn't know Islam was a race.

It's a matter of ideology, not racism.
And in Poland Catholics make up 91% of the population, and Islam is still less than 1% so use whatever excuse you gotta to to justify it all, at the end of the day it's all bullshit. Just a bunch of folks scared of a hilariously small brown group of people practicing their faith in peace under the idea of "they're all violent"...as they perpetuate violence against these folks.

And no, Islam isn't a race, but when you have white supremacist fuckboys attacking anyone they think is Muslim whether they are or not (not that they're even justified if that person IS Muslim) is predicated purely on racism.
 

Lucifer

Member
Oct 31, 2017
73
Didn't know Islam was a race.

It's a matter of ideology, not racism.
Color me unconvinced. Poland is overwhelming Catholic and religiously conservative. Their ideology is not exactly that far removed from conservative Islam, which makes up a ridiculously tiny minority in the country. Being concerned about Islam in Poland, but not the staunch, conservative Catholicism that plague the country doesn't make an ounce of sense... unless, of course, you are a racist who only worries about regressive ideologies coming mostly from non-whites.
 

Kinvara

Member
Oct 26, 2017
796
I changed my country in Twitter settings to Germany just so I don't have to see Nazis.

Someone needs to step up and make an alternative to twitter. People would abandon the website in droves if a more capable and properly run site showed up.

Just like with what happened here.

I do not know what "dog whistles" are.
Funny you don't know what dog whistles are since you just used one: "Islamic Supremacy".
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,784
Oh for fuck's sake, final solution? Really with this?

I love that they will fight you when you call them nazis to say they are not nazis, but they sure love to invoke nazi imagery in basically every small issue they have in their lives.
To be fair, that one actually is Jewish unlike most of these idiots. That's generally one reason there's a distinction between alt-right and alt-light and she's the latter. Still an idiot and a terrible person of course.
 

Rembrandt

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,267
it's a good move. it delegitimizes them on the platform and the fallout might cause an exodus or at least strong negative feelings towards the platform.

they do need to do more. they need to work on the harassment on the platform and how easy it is to circumvent the methods they have in place to curb it. i'm curious to see how they're gonna manage it. unlike facebook, the openness of the platform is its foundation.
 

atarisegabox

Banned
Nov 2, 2017
34
Spain
Islam isn't a race being another...
So stating facts is dog whistling?

Color me unconvinced. Poland is overwhelming Catholic and religiously conservative. Their ideology is not exactly that far removed from conservative Islam, which makes up a ridiculously tiny minority in the country. Being concerned about Islam in Poland, but not the staunch, conservative Catholicism that plague the country.
I must have missed all the verses in the New Testament calling for the subjugation and killing of non christians.

Seem to forget the EU has been trying to force some countries to accept large amounts of Muslim migrants.

And in Poland Catholics make up 91% of the population, and Islam is still less than 1% so use whatever excuse you gotta to to justify it all, at the end of the day it's all bullshit. Just a bunch of folks scared of a hilariously small brown group of people practicing their faith in peace under the idea of "they're all violent"....
You are the one calling them "brown people". As a Hispanic, do I count as "brown people"?

Islam is a violent ideology. Muslims are not necessarily. There are many "secular muslims" who do not follow most of it. No problem with those.
 
Last edited:
Oct 28, 2017
1,569
I must have missed all the verses in the New Testament calling for the subjugation and killing of non christians.
But you did read the verses in the Koran that call for subjegation and killing of non-islam, then? Which verses are that again?
Seem to forget the EU has been trying to force some countries to accept large amounts of Muslim migrants.
The EU wants to take in refugees in from disaster zones and war-torn countries, yes. What's your point? Are refugees inherently bad?

You are the one calling them "brown people". As a Hispanic, do I count as "brown people"?

Islam is a violent ideology. Muslims are not necessarily. There are many "secular muslims" who do not follow most of it. No problem with those.
Islam is no more violent then Christianity. People who radicalize will do radical things in the name of their faith. Islam happens to be the biggest religion on Earth, and there are many many more peaceful Muslims then there are radicalized ones.

You seem terrified of Islam, but seeing these blanket statements, you also seem poorly informed. Don't you have any Muslim friends?
 

atarisegabox

Banned
Nov 2, 2017
34
Spain
User was banned for his posts in this thread: Continuous derailing and whataboutism. Duration: 3 days.
But you did read the verses in the Koran that call for subjegation and killing of non-islam, then? Which verses are that again?


The EU wants to take in refugees in from disaster zones and war-torn countries, yes. What's your point? Are refugees inherently bad?



Islam is no more violent then Christianity. People who radicalize will do radical things in the name of their faith. Islam happens to be the biggest religion on Earth, and there are many many more peaceful Muslims then there are radicalized ones.

You seem terrified of Islam, but seeing these blanket statements, you also seem poorly informed. Don't you have any Muslim friends?
For example:

9:5. Then when the Sacred Months (the 1st, 7th, 11th, and 12th months of the Islamic calendar) have passed, then kill the Mushrikun {unbelievers} wherever you find them, and capture them and besiege them, and prepare for them each and every ambush. But if they repent and perform As-Salat (Iqamat-as-Salat {the Islamic ritual prayers}), and give Zakat {alms}, then leave their way free. Verily, Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.

8:39. And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and polytheism: i.e. worshipping others besides Allah) and the religion (worship) will all be for Allah Alone [in the whole of the world]. But if they cease (worshipping others besides Allah), then certainly, Allah is All-Seer of what they do.8:67. It is not for a Prophet that he should have prisoners of war (and free them with ransom) until he had made a great slaughter (among his enemies) in the land. You desire the good of this world (i.e. the money of ransom for freeing the captives), but Allah desires (for you) the Hereafter. And Allah is All-Mighty, All-Wise.

9:29. Fight against those who believe not in Allah, nor in the Last Day, nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth (i.e. Islam) among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians), until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.

9:33. It is He {Allah} Who has sent His Messenger (Muhammad) with guidance and the religion of truth (Islam), to make it superior over all religions even though the Mushrikun (polytheists, pagans, idolaters, disbelievers in the Oneness of Allah) hate (it).

Are refugees inherintly bad. No. I'm all for taking real refugees (people who are being slaughtered in the middle east, like Christians and Yazidis). As for muslims, a severe vetting stystem needs to be put in place, considering ISIS has boasted about getting terrorists through the refugee stream into Europe.

I have met muslims. As I said, secular muslims, no problem.
 

StalinTheCat

Member
Oct 30, 2017
542
It's funny because the bible have some bits that are extremely cruel and violent, but somehow that gets always a pass from the people scared of Islam and muslims.

I still can't believe that I read here how the ex leader of EDL is not racist, but I guess you live and learn.

Also:
Seem to forget the EU has been trying to force some countries to accept large amounts of Muslim migrants.
The EU has been trying to find accomodation and help for refugees coming from war zones. Wouldn't you like to be helped if you were running away from a war?
 

MilesQ

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,494
So stating facts is dog whistling?
I don't believe you're as ignorant as you try to portray yourself. You know full well what dog whistles are you know what using that phrase means/what it's used as a cover for.

Only a coward engages in debate and pretends to be a fool. At least be man enough to own what you believe in.

And I'm still waiting to hear about the islamic supremacy.
 

Monogatari

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,166
Islam doesn't even make up a whole 1% in Poland I don't think. It's pretty much just racism
It’s also an example of what I call “copycat racism”. Where White Europeans from lesser economically developed countries want to copy the trends of the more economically developed White majority countries. And that’s where the Muslim hate comes in to make them feel like “We are White and superior too, just like America and UK”.

Even though in the UK itself Polish people aren’t given any special “they are White like us” status from most xenophobes. They are thrown under the same post-Brexit “We did it!” bus that Muslims are.
 

Dali

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,278
For example:

9:5. Then when the Sacred Months (the 1st, 7th, 11th, and 12th months of the Islamic calendar) have passed, then kill the Mushrikun {unbelievers} wherever you find them, and capture them and besiege them, and prepare for them each and every ambush. But if they repent and perform As-Salat (Iqamat-as-Salat {the Islamic ritual prayers}), and give Zakat {alms}, then leave their way free. Verily, Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.

8:39. And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and polytheism: i.e. worshipping others besides Allah) and the religion (worship) will all be for Allah Alone [in the whole of the world]. But if they cease (worshipping others besides Allah), then certainly, Allah is All-Seer of what they do.8:67. It is not for a Prophet that he should have prisoners of war (and free them with ransom) until he had made a great slaughter (among his enemies) in the land. You desire the good of this world (i.e. the money of ransom for freeing the captives), but Allah desires (for you) the Hereafter. And Allah is All-Mighty, All-Wise.

9:29. Fight against those who believe not in Allah, nor in the Last Day, nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth (i.e. Islam) among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians), until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.

9:33. It is He {Allah} Who has sent His Messenger (Muhammad) with guidance and the religion of truth (Islam), to make it superior over all religions even though the Mushrikun (polytheists, pagans, idolaters, disbelievers in the Oneness of Allah) hate (it).

Are refugees inherintly bad. No. I'm all for taking real refugees (people who are being slaughtered in the middle east, like Christians and Yazidis). As for muslims, a severe vetting stystem needs to be put in place, considering ISIS has boasted about getting terrorists through the refugee stream into Europe.

I have met muslims. As I said, secular muslims, no problem.
I know you're banned and all but those are specifically about idolators and polytheists. Both of which are groups that the bible isn't so tolerant of either. The "people of the book" is how the Quran refers to Jews and Christians and the tone is mostly tolerant.
 

Mivey

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,678
So did you fail to read the post I was responding to, or are you just looking for things to argue with and to hell with context? Stop this nonsense.
I really don't see how even routing out hate groups would be any issue, let alone not giving them any "verified" status. For the longest time, Twitter as done absolutely nothing on these issues. Now that they are facing the declined use of their platform, relative to other social media sites, they are finally incentivized to do something.
No one has a right to be on any private platform, and I don't think the world would be a poorer place with Spencer and Co. having it a bit harder to use Twitter to communicate their vile bullshit.
 

Talraen

Member
Oct 27, 2017
268
Connecticut
I really don't see how even routing out hate groups would be any issue, let alone not giving them any "verified" status. For the longest time, Twitter as done absolutely nothing on these issues. Now that they are facing the declined use of their platform, relative to other social media sites, they are finally incentivized to do something.
No one has a right to be on any private platform, and I don't think the world would be a poorer place with Spencer and Co. having it a bit harder to use Twitter to communicate their vile bullshit.
OK, I generally agree with all that. Who are you arguing with? What does any of that have to do with either of my posts that you quoted?
 

Talraen

Member
Oct 27, 2017
268
Connecticut
That I don't see why Twitter should care if nazis are "harrassed" for being nazis, at all.
That's what my quip was about.
I know what you were saying. So let me clarify what I was saying.

Mr. Sam argued that the criteria for banning Twitter uses included banning users who organized harassment against other groups. I offered a counterexample of a group that fits that criteria, but which I do not think should necessarily be banned. As in, I don't think people should be banned from Twitter for harassing nazis.

By responding to my quote with a sarcastic remark, and since quotes don't include the quotes the poster was responding to , you made it look like I was saying the exact opposite of what I said. And I don't appreciate that.
 

Mivey

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,678
Ah, well, even reading the last few quotes I got that wrong. So, I am sorry for misunderstanding you.

To contribute usefully to the conversation: I don't think Twitter is very consistent with what they do vis-a-vis what they say. As in, they will do what is popular and what will bring them in more users. Banning nazis, fine. Going against people harrasing open nazis, probably not.
At the same time they are probably glad for the all the attention Trump is bringing to Twitter, no matter how much damage it might do to, well, the world.