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mbpm

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,610
what's a terf? i keep seeing it pop up, but mostly just in terms of rowling lately
From one of the posts linked in the OP

D9w9O3TXYAIjTjv.jpg
 

Mcfrank

Member
Oct 28, 2017
15,216
...was it? I watched that movie, but there was no explicit romantic connection indicated between Dumbledore and Grindelwald, not that I noticed.

Really? The mirror or erised scene? The way they talk about each other? It was as explicit as you could make it for a character known for keeping his past a secret. Short of Jude law turning to the camera and saying "grimdelwald and I used to fuck!" I am not sure what else people wanted.
 

Artdayne

Banned
Nov 7, 2017
5,015
Not sure why people would be surprised that she might have some problematic views, her using goblins to fulfill a Jewish stereotype in Harry Potter was pretty messed up.
 

higemaru

Member
Nov 30, 2017
4,103
I thought she was going full TERF a while ago. Also what's up with seemingly otherwise sensible Brits having issues with trans people? Graham Linehan's also gone down this gross road. (although I guess he's Irish).
Look up mumsnet. Basically an Internet forum ostensibly for moms, but as reasonable members fled to facebook and other websites, the loudest transphobic voices got louder and by virtue of being the most visible, the most credible.
 

roguesquirrel

The Fallen
Oct 29, 2017
5,487
Im not good at using twitter, but is she just following them?, we KNOW Rowling made really big series of book that had great emphasys on supporting minorities.


Maybe she just follows them because of a meme, but didnt reallize they were anti-trans, I know I followed a couple of bad instagrams becuase I needed to follow them to see a meme that was sent to me.

Unless she's retweeting those comments or supportintg them in an way, I think people are just overreacting.
I look forward to rereading this limp post next year when she does this yet again and someone decides they want to play the devils fool for the day
 

Deleted member 11413

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
22,961
Is there a reason why TERFs seem to be more common in Britain than the US or other developed western European countries? Is it really just the prominence of mumsnet, or is there more to it than that?

Obviously there is rampant transphobia in the US too, but usually from the typical sources that are also anti-gay and anti-feminist. US has TERFs too, but seems like they are less prominent here.

Also the irony in using your experiences of being oppressed primarily to...oppress other people.
 

PSqueak

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,464
No, a follow IS an endorsement. Fuck Rowling and fuck TERFs (who aren't feminists, you can't exclude an entire class of women and be a feminist).

Expellurum transphobe

Depends the context, in something like this i would say a follow is an endorsement, but in other situations, let's say following a content creator like an artist or a musician, if you don't know the person is actually a piece of shit you're not endorsing their views, you were lured by the art/music.

Or that time Hermoine wanted to stand up for elf rights and gets laughed at about it.

Harry Potter in a way has always been a low key paradise fantasy for white diet racists:

-All major characters are white, despite JK trying to trick people into believing Hermione (who is based on herself) was never mentioned to be white (even tho she totally was).
-Characters get to celebrate being born "better" than other people and use slurs for those "inferior" with total impunity and it's seen as "endearing" and "funny".
-Slavery of a sapient race is legal and even the "good guys" do it, the only character to object to this, as already mentioned, is Hermione and she's ridiculed for it.
-The main characters (and viewers who get into the setting) get to not feel like racists because Voldemort is there for them to be "less racist than".
 
Last edited:
May 13, 2019
1,589
...whedon? Do I want to know?
www.thewrap.com

Joss Whedon Is a 'Hypocrite Preaching Feminist Ideals,' Ex-Wife Kai Cole Says (Guest Blog) - TheWrap

"He used his relationship with me as a shield ... so no one would question his relationships with other women or scrutinize his writing as anything other than feminist," she writes

Fifteen years later, when he was done with our marriage and finally ready to tell the truth, he wrote me, "When I was running 'Buffy,' I was surrounded by beautiful, needy, aggressive young women. It felt like I had a disease, like something from a Greek myth. Suddenly I am a powerful producer and the world is laid out at my feet and I can't touch it." But he did touch it. He said he understood, "I would have to lie — or conceal some part of the truth — for the rest of my life," but he did it anyway, hoping that first affair, "would be ENOUGH, that THEN we could move on and outlast it."

This did a number on Whedon's reputation and he has kept a low profile since then.
 

Radeo

Banned
Apr 26, 2019
1,305
Is there a reason why TERFs seem to be more common in Britain than the US or other developed western European countries? Is it really just the prominence of mumsnet, or is there more to it than that?

Obviously there is rampant transphobia in the US too, but usually from the typical sources that are also anti-gay and anti-feminist. US has TERFs too, but seems like they are less prominent here.

Also the irony in using your experiences of being oppressed primarily to...oppress other people.
Probably just more a case of gay/lesbian being a bit more accepted in the UK so the bigots focus on trans people instead, whereas the US is still struggling with just the LG parts of LGBTQ

They're exactly the same types of people, just a bit more cautious to speak up about gay people
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,705
can't believe JK Rowling cut the scene where Grindelwald tells Dumbledore that he's worthy of his grace

maybe if the transphobes JK Rowling followed had any character traits besides their hatred of trans people, her tepid denials would have more weight - why else would anyone follow these fools, it's all they post!
 

Deleted member 11413

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
22,961
Probably just more a case of gay/lesbian being a bit more accepted in the UK so the bigots focus on trans people instead, whereas the US is still struggling with just the LG parts of LGBTQ

They're exactly the same types of people, just a bit more cautious to speak up about gay people
I'm not sure that really explains it, especially given the prevalence of gay/lesbian transphobes.
 

Radeo

Banned
Apr 26, 2019
1,305
I'm not sure that really explains it, especially given the prevalence of gay/lesbian transphobes.
Purely personal experience speaking here, but I don't believe the UK has a significant difference in terms of anti-LGBT sentiment, just that generally they're more careful in how they express it. That's all I was trying to say

Also gay people can still be bigots
 

Deleted member 11413

User requested account closure
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Oct 27, 2017
22,961
Purely personal experience speaking here, but I don't believe the UK has a significant difference in terms of anti-LGBT sentiment, just that generally they're more careful in how they express it. That's all I was trying to say

Also gay people can still be bigots
Of course gay people can be bigots, but their bigotry isn't arising from general LGB bigotry. I'm sure that some of the British transphobia comes from people who hate LGBT people, but only feel comfortable expressing that hate against trans people. But there is plenty of transphobia coming from places that cannot be explained by typical anti-gay sentiment.
 

Creamx

Member
Jun 2, 2019
49
So the woman who wrote a happiness in slavery storyline, who wrote goblins as antisemitic stereotypes, and who declared Dumbledore gay but then straightwashed him to get China's $ also happens to be a huge transphobe? Color me surprised.

HP was a huge part of my childhood, and I wish JKR wasn't such a bigoted, hateful person so I could revisit it without feeling bitter.
 

Platy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
27,694
Brazil
ah thank you! explains why ive moslty seen it popup towards rowling

Should be noted that the R means Radical not because they have extreme views (quiet the opposite) but because it is a reference to Radical Feminism, a feminist movement in the 70's that is racist, bifobic and transphobic. It's name come from the gramatical radical.
 

Radeo

Banned
Apr 26, 2019
1,305
Of course gay people can be bigots, but their bigotry isn't arising from general LGB bigotry. I'm sure that some of the British transphobia comes from people who hate LGBT people, but only feel comfortable expressing that hate against trans people. But there is plenty of transphobia coming from places that cannot be explained by typical anti-gay sentiment.
To be honest, I hadn't really noticed how many British terfs there were so I had a brief look at some articles (just the first few on google, nothing particularly academic), and they suggest that its some combo of the media giving high profile terfs more exposure (talk shows, tabloids etc) and mumsnet.

So my bad, I learned something new today. It's not something that's ever brought up in work, and the only politics I follow is second hand through American friends so it's typically US-centric.
 

ZeoVGM

Member
Oct 25, 2017
76,206
Providence, RI
If I remember correctly, her PR person said she just didn't know how to twitter and that it was a mistake.


Thank you.

While I can believe that -- my friend once pointed out that I liked an alt-right tweet once because that caused it to appear in her timeline and I was horrified -- it's hard to deny there's a pattern here.

That being said, I just can't bring myself to call her a "transphobic cunt" as was done earlier in the thread. I would very much like her to make some sort of comment on the situation though as the longer she doesn't, the more suspect it gets.
 
OP
OP

Deleted member 31817

Nov 7, 2017
30,876
Thank you.

While I can believe that -- my friend once pointed out that I liked an alt-right tweet once because that caused it to appear in her timeline and I was horrified -- it's hard to deny there's a pattern here.

That being said, I just can't bring myself to call her a "transphobic cunt" as was done earlier in the thread. I would very much like her to make some sort of comment on the situation though as the longer she doesn't, the more suspect it gets.
She's been doing this for YEARS.

It's been long enough.
 

Deleted member 11413

User requested account closure
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Oct 27, 2017
22,961
To be honest, I hadn't really noticed how many British terfs there were so I had a brief look at some articles (just the first few on google, nothing particularly academic), and they suggest that its some combo of the media giving high profile terfs more exposure (talk shows, tabloids etc) and mumsnet.

So my bad, I learned something new today. It's not something that's ever brought up in work, and the only politics I follow is second hand through American friends so it's typically US-centric.
It's OK, it's just a strange phenomenon that seems unique to Britain. I'm not sure why TERFs are more prominent in Britain either, that's why I was asking about it.

Like in the US the people pushing the 'trans people are trying to assault you in the women's bathroom' bullshit are usually right wing conservative religious groups. But in Britain, there are a ton of more left-wing, 'feminist', and even lesbian groups pushing that kind of rhetoric, which typically does not happen in the US (though I'm sure there are examples).
 

Radeo

Banned
Apr 26, 2019
1,305
It's OK, it's just a strange phenomenon that seems unique to Britain. I'm not sure why TERFs are more prominent in Britain either, that's why I was asking about it.

Like in the US the people pushing the 'trans people are trying to assault you in the women's bathroom' bullshit are usually right wing conservative religious groups. But in Britain, there are a ton of more left-wing, 'feminist', and even lesbian groups pushing that kind of rhetoric, which typically does not happen in the US (though I'm sure there are examples).
I haven't watched day time TV here for at least a decade because it's absolute trash, but honestly the talk shows can be really gross.

I do remember a few years back they pitted 2 trans women against 2 "gender critical women", and I believe they did something similar with Laura Kate Dale not too long ago?
 

Desparadina

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
609
"she wrote a gay character (who she was too much of a coward to actually put in the books or in the fucking movies when they had the chance) so that makes all of this ok! I can give her a pass!"

She's a cowardly TERF plain and simple, trying to handwave her underhanded support of bigotry because of some barely performative liberalism isn't it
 

Deleted member 11413

User requested account closure
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Oct 27, 2017
22,961
I haven't watched day time TV here for at least a decade because it's absolute trash, but honestly the talk shows can be really gross.

I do remember a few years back they pitted 2 trans women against 2 "gender critical women", and I believe they did something similar with Laura Kate Dale not too long ago?
That sounds pretty awful. If the daytime TV over there is anything like your print media then I'm sure it's plenty trash.
 

Surakian

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
10,867
Somewhat unfair to say she never did anything with it. She wrote a movie which came out 8 months ago in which it was a pretty central plot point.

Subtextually, sure, but that is all it is—subtext. It's not stated outright. Their romance isn't a central plot point, but rather their unbreakable vow is a plot device to conveniently explain why Dumbledore didn't fight against Grindelwald up until that point in the story.

Anybody wanting to overlook the implications of their relationship can due to it being subtext and the canon materials out there would continue to support their reading of Dumbledore and Grindelwald's relationship.

It's 2019 and subtext is not actual representation. Rowling can talk up a storm about Dumbledore and Grindelwald having deep tantric coitus in interviews with Jesus Christ himself and it would still be subtext until it is actually said or shown in the films or in a book.
 

Icemonk191

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,814
Thank you.

While I can believe that -- my friend once pointed out that I liked an alt-right tweet once because that caused it to appear in her timeline and I was horrified -- it's hard to deny there's a pattern here.

That being said, I just can't bring myself to call her a "transphobic cunt" as was done earlier in the thread. I would very much like her to make some sort of comment on the situation though as the longer she doesn't, the more suspect it gets.
You're literally being the person who goes "Well they technically didn't say the N word so why are you calling them a racist?" right now.

Stop.
 
OP
OP

Deleted member 31817

Nov 7, 2017
30,876
How do you feel about her never responding to being called out for this, having her reps say it was a slip of the finger and then her continually following more and more people who don't post anything other than anti-trans hatred?
 
Nov 2, 2017
2,090
Yeah I think it's pretty clear at this point that she's anti-trans, or at the least has some anti-trans leanings.

She cloaks it well enough with her espousing of other progressive views, but I don't think there'd be this many "mistakes" if there weren't something more at play.

Sucks :/
 

astro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
56,954
Thank you.

While I can believe that -- my friend once pointed out that I liked an alt-right tweet once because that caused it to appear in her timeline and I was horrified -- it's hard to deny there's a pattern here.

That being said, I just can't bring myself to call her a "transphobic cunt" as was done earlier in the thread. I would very much like her to make some sort of comment on the situation though as the longer she doesn't, the more suspect it gets.
Oh hey, it's you again defending awful things.

She is FULLY endorsing this shit without the guts to say it out loud. Her platform is HUGE, she knows exactly what she's doing.

LOOK AT THIS SHIT THAT SHE FOLLOWED:


From one of the posts linked in the OP

D9w9O3TXYAIjTjv.jpg
 

Icemonk191

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,814
How do you feel about her never responding to being called out for this, having her reps say it was a slip of the finger and then her continually following more and more people who don't post anything other than anti-trans hatred?
BuT SHe DiDN't SpEcifICalLY sAY SHe HatEs TrANs PEOplE sO wHY ArE yOu BEiNg mEAn tO HeR?
 

Lunar Wolf

Banned
Nov 6, 2017
16,237
Los Angeles
I did, it starts with "a follow isn't an endorsement", but people are still reading it like that.

And no, its not about trans people, but the whole message of the books its about minorities, and one of the most beloved characters on the series was gay, I'll give her the benefit of the doubt on this one

Being gay is different from being trans.

Also JK Rowling had Harry Potter becoming a slaveowner by the end of the books just saying.
 

Aine

Member
May 27, 2019
1,815
Rowling is a well-established shitbird. This should surprise no one, at this point.
 

ZeoVGM

Member
Oct 25, 2017
76,206
Providence, RI
Oh hey, it's you again defending awful things.

I literally said there's clearly a pattern.

I'm sorry if you disagree with my opinion that I won't personally be writing her off based on follows on Twitter. I understand why you would. But I just don't agree.

If you have a problem with me personally, please PM me instead of being abrasive in your reply to me as if I was being argumentative about this topic.
 

astro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
56,954
I literally said there's clearly a pattern.

I'm sorry if you disagree with my opinion that I won't personally be writing her off based on follows on Twitter. I understand why you would. But I just don't agree.

If you have a problem with me personally, please PM me instead of being abrasive in your reply to me as if I was being argumentative about this topic.
There is more than a pattern, there is outright support via consistent and constant endorsement.

And as usual you play the victim when called.

LOOK at that account she followed, it exists pretty much elusively to spread anti-trans messages. That's it. There's no other reason she would have followed it. You have to be blind to say this is not enough.
 

FaceHugger

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
13,949
USA
It's a shame. A lot of young trans people are going to be influenced by her work in the future, and when they look her up they might discover that she doesn't think highly of them.

In her novel The Silkworm she featured a trans woman who was in the process of transitioning. She treated the character well if I recall (I'm no expert, but it seemed on the level). I wonder what made her change.