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Oct 27, 2017
1,926
I'm playing as Alexios right now and I think the voice actor did a great job from what I've played so far. I was pretty torn on who to pick when I started—it's too bad you can't play them both a la AC syndicate. I loved switching between Evie/Jacob on the go.
 

BrassDragon

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,154
The Netherlands
Good for them, hope they had as much fun as I had with Kassandra. It'ss an awesome game regardless.

I wonder if this statistic is enough for Ubisoft to not rule out femal player characters.
 

leng jai

Member
Nov 2, 2017
15,116
I wonder what the difference would be if Kassandra was the "default" selection. Probably closer to a 50% split.
 

RPGamer

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,435
Good for them, hope they had as much fun as I had with Kassandra. It'ss an awesome game regardless.

I wonder if this statistic is enough for Ubisoft to not rule out femal player characters.

I think they already said they will continue to give the players the choice going forward. And i think 25% is enough to not change that.
 

Xevross

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,048
I picked Alexios after I heard that romance options were the same no matter which gender character you pick. As a gay guy there aren't many gay romance options in games, so I took the chance. But if I'd known how boring and unsubstantial the romance routes were I'd have just picked Kassandra, she is a badass.
 

SpinierBlakeD

Attempted to circumvent ban with an alt account
Banned
Oct 28, 2018
1,353
I played as Alexios and I'm glad because:

The other character is the antagonist of the game and Kassandra worked perfectly for that role. I can't imagine Alexios would have pulled it off.
 
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Dr. Caroll

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
8,111
Some people seemingly want Ubisoft to make some kind of statement with AC's protagonist. Layla is the actual protagonist of Assassin's Creed now, in case people are forgetting. Ubisoft really don't care how much backlash they get over Layla. (Some people really resent her as a character because they feel she's "pandering" due to her sex and ethnicity.) She's the protagonist, and the story has big plans for her.
layla7ncev.jpg

There's also a degree of symmetry with Layla and Kassandra that is absent with Layla and Alexios. Layla is the protagonist, and she will do what she will do in the next Assassin's Creed game. It's remarkable how willing Ubisoft are to place huge, huge plot details behind content a majority of players will never see due to AC: Odyssey's size and scope.
tumblr_pfz59k4tqo1x2ig4doi.gif
 

Jecht

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,650
Some people seemingly want Ubisoft to make some kind of statement with AC's protagonist. Layla is the actual protagonist of Assassin's Creed now, in case people are forgetting. Ubisoft really don't care how much backlash they get over Layla. She's the protagonist, and the story has big plans for her.
layla7ncev.jpg

There's a degree of symmetry with Layla and Kassandra that is absent with Layla and Alexios, also. Layla is the protagonist, and she will do what she will do in the next Assassin's Creed game. It's remarkable how willing Ubisoft are to place huge, huge plot details behind content a majority of players will never see due to AC: Odyssey's size and scope.
tumblr_pfz59k4tqo1x2ig4doi.gif

They have as much reverence for Layla as they did for Desmond.

Which is none. She will get killed off screen when it's convenient for them
 

AshenOne

Member
Feb 21, 2018
6,082
Pakistan
I didn't play it but often in these sort of games i play as a male because... iam a male. I know sometimes you get two different gendered characters that are much more than just husks of voiced protagonists and having their own personalities and such but like others i can only play as characters i can directly relate to.
 

Tiamat

Member
Nov 16, 2017
341
Well I play with him and my wife plays with her.
We compared some moments and both are cool.
I don't understand the bad buzz about him.
 

ArmGunar

PlayStatistician
Member
Oct 30, 2017
6,527
I played with Alexios because armors looks better with a male character imo

And especially, French dub of Alexios is awesome
 

Dr. Caroll

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
8,111
They have as much reverence for Layla as they did for Desmond.

Which is none. She will get killed off screen when it's convenient for them
Layla is going to accomplish what Desmond was incapable of doing. Ubisoft have retconned Desmond into a dead end. He was never going to win. He was incapable of winning. And his tiny little victory in AC3 has been completely undone by the simulation.

Remember these quotes from AC: Origins:



And so I wonder. Can you feel the wave collapsing, trying to course correct Desmond's act of defiance? The incoming node needs the world to end. The algorithms have been carving the flow of possibilities towards that end for over one hundred years now. A labyrinth of trenches, filled with mud and mustard gas. Families cowering in fear as V2s vaporize their dwellings. Fire born from the bellows of the Los Alamos Laboratory, fueling global catastrophes. The Serpukhob-15 incident of 1983. The Doomsday clock, tucked away in an office of the University of Chicago. Its needle moving as the years ago. The node is near. Perhaps you knew. Perhaps you felt it too. That the world is closing in on you.

As an aside, it's interesting how this sentiment is echoed in Far Cry 5. "Something is coming. You can feel it, can't you?"

We tried. Our scholars and scientists. Poets and Physicists. Bright minds. Rebellious hearts. They all tried so hard to bring about change. They… We all failed. No-one could change what we discovered, the stories written into the walls of these rooms. By whom, we never knew. We know they tell of the future that is, the future that was, and the future that is yet to come. The _INAUDIBLE_ We failed at modifying a line. We failed at adding a single dot. It was clear. We were to be messengers at best.

You need to transgress. You, of all people, understand the value of disobeying. Take an unexpected turn, away from the path that is drawn straight ahead of you. The Animus was humankind's first unconscious attempt to explain what it could not see. Understanding genetic memories, an eye into history. But the Animus bears a fatal flaw. It follows the rules from those who embrace Order just as we did. It allows you to witness — but not alter. Your Animus is different. As is the mind that imagined it. It could escape the code. It could do that leap, and make possible a decision that defies the order of things that are. Wake up. Be the chaos that comes to be. Gods are just like you and me. Remember. Nothing is real. Everything is permitted.

Events yet unfold as written. But something, anything, must change. You do not understand what is at stake. The reader has no power. He is but an observer. But the author… the author invents the future. The author owns the future. A future where _INAUDIBLE_ are avoided. A future where a loved one can be revived by the drafting of a new chapter. A future where humankind is more than it is today. A future where, just perhaps, we can all still exist, together.

I've no doubt the next Assassin's Creed game will have an extremely unpleasant ending where characters scream, "THIS IS ALL YOUR FAULT!" at Layla. It's a Ubisoft tradition to completely screw the player over, subverting their hero complex. But Layla is important on a level Desmond never was. The exact mechanics are deliberately fuzzy, but Layla will escape the simulation and "fix" the original catastrophe that wiped out the Isu, creating a world where Isu and humans live peacefully together (remember, the so-called "real" world is simply a simulation. This simulation is trying to kill all the humans, and it keeps getting better at it. So if Layla doesn't succeed, there is no future.) Layla even has a folder on her computer about reality as a simulation for people who didn't play Origins, and the Isu messengers in Origins state:

How real is the ground you walk on? How real is the machine you toy with, the music you hear, the lover you kiss, or the foe you hate?

Your foot taps the ground. Does it make it real? Your enemies bleed deep red. Does that make them real? The confusion growing within you due to my words… Does it make you real? What if reality wasn't what you thought it was? What if this was all a construction? A masterfully crafted simulation?

You know such things exist. You've been in the Animus before. In fact, aren't you in one right now? You know just how real a simulation can feel even when it has long vanished. You've experience the Bleeding Effect. Layers upon layers of reality, each blurring into the next. Which is real, and which is not? What if none are real? What if everything you know is false? We can thousands of simulations, searching for the right version, searching for Desmond. Each one of them felt real. Very real. But there's no way of truly knowing, is there? Not for sure. Anything can be simulated, and finding the answer could mean erasure. From the build. From the code. From everything. So much to ponder and so little computational capacity. Take your time. This question has haunted humanity since its creation. It is a worry, a thought wormed deep in the collective mind. Two-thousand years ago, Zhuang Zhu fell asleep. He dreamed he was a butterfly, and woke up unable to decide if he was a man dreaming of a butterfly, or a butterfly dreaming of a man.

In Plato's cave, prisoners were chained and forced to watch shadows dancing on a wall. Freedom was denied to them until they accepted the intangible as reality. It's everywhere. Ask this professor at Oxford University, or this cosmologist at MIT. And you. What would you choose, if you truly knew? Would you even want to understand? A dream within a dream, where even the truth is sometimes a lie? In any case, simulations are not meaningless. They have purpose. The question isn't whether or not you are in a simulation. What matters is how much of your free will is actually yours. No matter how true you are. Your Turing test would do nothing to determine whether you are conscience or code. Eliza, the natural language processing computer program… she managed to pass the Test, did she not? And she was very much machine. So… in Eliza's own words… How does that make you feel?

There's actually a warning, though. The Isu removed the human sixth sense partially because they were dicks but also because a human that regains that kind of power will overload. This message is hidden in one of the bits of backmasking in AC: Origins. Layla will probably die. And the next AC will probably get super-meta about the whole "other simulations" that the Isu evasively talked about. Modern Ubisoft games love talking directly to the player. This whole "characters in a game don't have free will because this unseen entity beyond the veil controls their actions" vibe they've been going for for many years. To some degree the Isu talk to the protagonist, to Layla, and to the unseen entity behind Layla. Namely, you.
 
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ItsTheShoes

Attempting to circumvent ban with an alt
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
334
sounds about right. I remember on gaf everyone was convinced femshep was way more popular... then it turned out only 10% of gamers played as her hah.
 

SageShinigami

Member
Oct 27, 2017
30,455
Layla is going to accomplish what Desmond was incapable of doing. Ubisoft have retconned Desmond into a dead end. He was never going to win. He was incapable of winning. And his tiny little victory in AC3 has been completely undone by the simulation.

Remember these quotes from AC: Origins:

And so I wonder. Can you feel the wave collapsing, trying to course correct Desmond's act of defiance? The incoming node needs the world to end. The algorithms have been carving the flow of possibilities towards that end for over one hundred years now. A labyrinth of trenches, filled with mud and mustard gas. Families cowering in fear as V2s vaporize their dwellings. Fire born from the bellows of the Los Alamos Laboratory, fueling global catastrophes. The Serpukhob-15 incident of 1983. The Doomsday clock, tucked away in an office of the University of Chicago. Its needle moving as the years ago. The node is near. Perhaps you knew. Perhaps you felt it too. That the world is closing in on you.

As an aside, it's interesting how this sentiment is echoed in Far Cry 5. "Something is coming. You can feel it, can't you?"

We tried. Our scholars and scientists. Poets and Physicists. Bright minds. Rebellious hearts. They all tried so hard to bring about change. They… We all failed. No-one could change what we discovered, the stories written into the walls of these rooms. By whom, we never knew. We know they tell of the future that is, the future that was, and the future that is yet to come. The _INAUDIBLE_ We failed at modifying a line. We failed at adding a single dot. It was clear. We were to be messengers at best.

You need to transgress. You, of all people, understand the value of disobeying. Take an unexpected turn, away from the path that is drawn straight ahead of you. The Animus was humankind's first unconscious attempt to explain what it could not see. Understanding genetic memories, an eye into history. But the Animus bears a fatal flaw. It follows the rules from those who embrace Order just as we did. It allows you to witness — but not alter. Your Animus is different. As is the mind that imagined it. It could escape the code. It could do that leap, and make possible a decision that defies the order of things that are. Wake up. Be the chaos that comes to be. Gods are just like you and me. Remember. Nothing is real. Everything is permitted.

Events yet unfold as written. But something, anything, must change. You do not understand what is at stake. The reader has no power. He is but an observer. But the author… the author invents the future. The author owns the future. A future where _INAUDIBLE_ are avoided. A future where a loved one can be revived by the drafting of a new chapter. A future where humankind is more than it is today. A future where, just perhaps, we can all still exist, together.

I've no doubt the next Assassin's Creed game will have an extremely unpleasant ending where characters scream, "THIS IS ALL YOUR FAULT!" at Layla. It's a Ubisoft tradition to completely screw the player over, subverting their hero complex. But Layla is important on a level Desmond never was. The exact mechanics are deliberately fuzzy, but Layla will escape the simulation and "fix" the original catastrophe that wiped out the Isu, creating a world where Isu and humans live peacefully together (remember, the so-called "real" world is simply a simulation. This simulation is trying to kill all the humans, and it keeps getting better at it. So if Layla doesn't succeed, there is no future.) Layla even has a folder on her computer about reality as a simulation for people who didn't play Origins, and the Isu messengers in Origins state:

How real is the ground you walk on? How real is the machine you toy with, the music you hear, the lover you kiss, or the foe you hate?

Your foot taps the ground. Does it make it real? Your enemies bleed deep red. Does that make them real? The confusion growing within you due to my words… Does it make you real? What if reality wasn't what you thought it was? What if this was all a construction? A masterfully crafted simulation?

You know such things exist. You've been in the Animus before. In fact, aren't you in one right now? You know just how real a simulation can feel even when it has long vanished. You've experience the Bleeding Effect. Layers upon layers of reality, each blurring into the next. Which is real, and which is not? What if none are real? What if everything you know is false? We can thousands of simulations, searching for the right version, searching for Desmond. Each one of them felt real. Very real. But there's no way of truly knowing, is there? Not for sure. Anything can be simulated, and finding the answer could mean erasure. From the build. From the code. From everything. So much to ponder and so little computational capacity. Take your time. This question has haunted humanity since its creation. It is a worry, a thought wormed deep in the collective mind. Two-thousand years ago, Zhuang Zhu fell asleep. He dreamed he was a butterfly, and woke up unable to decide if he was a man dreaming of a butterfly, or a butterfly dreaming of a man.

In Plato's cave, prisoners were chained and forced to watch shadows dancing on a wall. Freedom was denied to them until they accepted the intangible as reality. It's everywhere. Ask this professor at Oxford University, or this cosmologist at MIT. And you. What would you choose, if you truly knew? Would you even want to understand? A dream within a dream, where even the truth is sometimes a lie? In any case, simulations are not meaningless. They have purpose. The question isn't whether or not you are in a simulation. What matters is how much of your free will is actually yours. No matter how true you are. Your Turing test would do nothing to determine whether you are conscience or code. Eliza, the natural language processing computer program… she managed to pass the Test, did she not? And she was very much machine. So… in Eliza's own words… How does that make you feel?

There's actually a warning, though. The Isu removed the human sixth sense partially because they were dicks but also because a human that regains that kind of power will overload. This message is hidden in one of the bits of backmasking in AC: Origins. Layla will probably die. And the next AC will probably get super-meta about the whole "other simulations" that the Isu evasively talked about. Modern Ubisoft games love talking directly to the player. This whole "characters in a game don't have free will because this unseen entity beyond the veil controls their actions" vibe they've been going for for many years. To some degree the Isu talk to the protagonist, to Layla, and to the unseen entity behind Layla. Namely, you.

You always post the wackiest theories, but they're always a good read.

What I do think would be fascinating is if they decided they would like to go full fantasy one day by showing us the world of human and Isu, fixed and developed differently from ours.
 

Marin-Lune

Member
Oct 27, 2017
608
Apologies, I haven't read the whole thread, just the first two pages and the last, but... how is 66/33 a bad ratio? I find it very encouraging and a strong positive sign sent to developers?
 

Dr. Caroll

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
8,111
What I do think would be fascinating is if they decided they would like to go full fantasy one day by showing us the world of human and Isu, fixed and developed differently from ours.
That is the implication of "But the author… the author invents the future. The author owns the future. A future where STORIES are avoided. A future where a loved one can be revived by the drafting of a new chapter. A future where humankind is more than it is today. A future where, just perhaps, we can all still exist, together."

The Hyena in AC: Origins believed that the message, and the tomb, held the secret to reviving her deceased daughter. But while it's certainly plausible that the dead could be revived on an individual basis by "drafting a new chapter", the message is talking about the resurrection of the First Civilization and the coexistence of humanity and Isu. Assassin's Creed is, at its heart, a science fiction franchise. Just one that has... drastically retconned its original planned story. And on that note, Ubi's willingness to completely discard the original planned story arcs of Assassin's Creed does mean it's not impossible they'll do it again. However, I personally think that's unlikely.
 

Violence Jack

Drive-in Mutant
Member
Oct 25, 2017
41,657
I played with Kassandra because I'd heard the voice acting was a lot better. Plus, the last time there were male and female main assassins in an AC game (Syndicate) Evie was so much better and more fun to play than Jacob it was ridiculous.
 

arkay

Member
Nov 8, 2017
459
Playing through it now. I started as Kassandra and judging from the first hour or so, her VA sounds more natural and less "reading off a script" than Alexios' VA. But strangely I restarted and switched to Alexios.. probably because of wanting to self-insert I guess.
 

scitek

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,054
Kassandra's awesome. I chose her from the start and really like how they've written her character.
 

Kevers

The Fallen
Oct 29, 2017
14,537
Syracuse, NY
I don't have the game but when I eventually get it I fully intend on playing as Kassandra, she always looked more interesting of the two to me. I can't say I'm surprised by the numbers though.
 

Soupman Prime

The Fallen
Nov 8, 2017
8,553
Boston, MA
I'll have to play the game eventually though I never finished Origins as well as AssCreed 3 so maybe I shouldn't get it but are the stories very different, like you'd be missing out if you played as the woman and not the man?

I usually tend to play as a dude and that's even when you can create your own character.
 

Anoxida

Member
Oct 30, 2017
2,498
As great as Kassandra is being a protagonist she's even better as an antagonist, picking Alexios is therefore the right choice.
 

Xeteh

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,377
Kassandra's voice actress made that game for me, can't imagine going through without playing as her.
 

ThatOneGuy

Member
Dec 3, 2018
1,207
28 yr old dude. I'm not sure whats changed in me lately but more and more I've opted to play as women in games that let me choose which gender I'd like to play. Maybe it's just feeling less pigeon holed to playing as my own gender the older I get? Idk.
 

NavyPharaoh

Member
Oct 27, 2017
547
I played as Alexios and I'm glad because:

The other character is the antagonist of the game and Kassandra worked perfectly for that role. I can't imagine Alexios would have pulled it off.

Came here to see which voice actor was better and thus guy doesn't know how to properly hide spoilers. Smh
 
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Troast

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
844
I always try to play as a female character, Kassandra was very fun and I enjoyed the dialog choices you had. This game did amaze me a bit on how good it was, because I thought with only a year since Origin it would be rushed. No, they made a massive world that I loved to explore, and I can't wait for any expansion they bring out.
 

SlickVic

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,948
USA
Only played through the 'starting area' (really want to go back but decided I'll finish Yakuza 0 and RDR2 first so I can have more time to play Odyssey properly) but definitely have enjoyed playing as Kassandra. I feel the voice actress does a great job delivering the lines and the responses have just the right amount of 'sass' (if that makes sense). Whatever the numbers show, I'm just really happy Ubi gave us the option of a cool female protagonist in Odyssey, and I do hope we see it again in their future AC games.
 

Valdega

Banned
Sep 7, 2018
1,609
I'm surprised the ratio was so low, honestly. I figured it would be 90% Alexios. Statistically, the majority of people prefer to play as their own sex and the vast majority of AC players are male. The numbers probably broke down like this:
- 80% of male players played as Alexios.
- 20% of male players played as Kassandra.
- 95% of female players played as Kassandra.
- 5% of female players played as Alexios.

I'm guessing their focus groups were more evenly split between men and women, hence their 50/50 ratio.
 

TheWatchGuard

Banned
Dec 15, 2017
12
I started by playing as Kassandra and did get about a quarter through the game but then once I got to the part where you meet the other twin I liked how he looked in the armor so I restarted. However on my platinum run for my PS4 I will be going all Kassandra!
 
Jul 18, 2018
5,851
I don't get people calling this sad, etc.
I'm a male, and with games of choice, i like to go with characters that are also male and close to my skin tone/look. That's my preference and that's how i want to play. However it doesn't mean i'm against playing female characters, it's just with chose, i will almost always choose male.
They should have however went with no choice and made you play as a female if her character was that much better.
 

Kyoufu

Member
Oct 26, 2017
16,582
Not surprised but...

Imagine not playing this game as Kassandra. Imagine that life.
 

Mulciber

Member
Aug 22, 2018
5,217
I almost always play characters close as possible to my gender and physical appearance when given a choice, if the game is an RPG (or RPG-adjacent). I honestly just get into the game more, and usually I make choices in games I would normally make. (One reason why it's nearly impossible for me to make evil, asshole, etc. choices.)

I find it weird that there are people in here attacking that decision so much. Conversely, knowing that it makes my games more enjoyable is one reason why I fight for inclusion. I want as many people as possible to get to experience what I have, as default for most of my life, as a white guy.
 

Dr. Caroll

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
8,111
You know how people who invert the X-axis in games think about game cameras in a fundamentally different way? Well, you get something similar with game protagonists. For some people (and this is a not-insignificant number of people; it might even be a majority particularly on consoles -- stats from Dragon Age showed a higher percentage of PC gamers played as a female character compared to Xbox and PS4), the protagonist is a vehicle for self-insertion. They choose a male character typically with a skin tone resembling their own because they want to insert themselves into the story. They're the kind of people who name characters after themselves. Such people are often perturbed if their protagonist expresses opinions they disagree with. This kind of player often prefers a silent protagonist to one who contracts their own beliefs.

People on the other side of the fence want to use the protagonist to be SOMEONE ELSE. A black man will choose to play as a pale-skinned female elf. A muscular white man will choose to play as a dwarf. To live someone else's life, to experience things beyond the range of their own personal life journey. This is a deep ideological split, and people on the former side are often completely baffled by the idea of voluntarily choosing to play as a character that does not resemble their real life self.