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Please Use Spoiler Tags

Morrigan

Spear of the Metal Church
Member
Oct 24, 2017
34,357
Information
Reminder to everyone that spoiler tags exist. Please be respectful of those who haven't played or finished the game yet. Also, if spoilers upset you, please don't quote posts containing them, as it makes going back and editing those posts more work for us. ;) Thank you.
 

Deleted member 1589

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,576
o-GENDER-GAP-570.jpg


Barely, and far from enough to cover the spread.

However, the percentage AC players that are male may skew closer to two-thirds. I'm curious.
As much as I loathe to use the term, I was talking about 'core' gamers.
 

Deleted member 17289

Account closed at user request
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,163
I am gay, I like men, hence played as Alexios. Screw you if you are going to try and shame me for not picking Kassandra.
More power to you, enjoy the game however you want and makes you happy, I'm doing my first play trough with Kassandra and will be doing a second one with Alexios, their acting and facial reactions to situations are so different i need to see them both.
 

gcwy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,685
Houston, TX

Kyle Cross

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,431
Why should Ubisoft do that if most people want to play as a male in AC? Giving the choice to the players wasn't a bad idea and it is everyones own decision which character they choose, i can't even understand why that makes some people upset.

There's nothing wrong with choice, but the overwhelming majority of games already have a man as a protagonist. When a solid woman protagonist comes around like Kassandra and so many people pass on playing her, I just can't help but think maybe there's times when a developer shouldn't make it a choice and if that happened more often maybe these statistics would shift.
 

Lukas Taves

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
5,713
Brazil
Some people seemingly want Ubisoft to make some kind of statement with AC's protagonist. Layla is the actual protagonist of Assassin's Creed now, in case people are forgetting. Ubisoft really don't care how much backlash they get over Layla. (Some people really resent her as a character because they feel she's "pandering" due to her sex and ethnicity.) She's the protagonist, and the story has big plans for her.
layla7ncev.jpg

There's also a degree of symmetry with Layla and Kassandra that is absent with Layla and Alexios. Layla is the protagonist, and she will do what she will do in the next Assassin's Creed game. It's remarkable how willing Ubisoft are to place huge, huge plot details behind content a majority of players will never see due to AC: Odyssey's size and scope.
tumblr_pfz59k4tqo1x2ig4doi.gif
I just wish Ubi would drop modern day plot. It's beyong stupid and unnecessary at this point, and are easily the worst part of the series.
 

Dr. Caroll

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
8,111
I just wish Ubi would drop modern day plot. It's beyong stupid and unnecessary at this point, and are easily the worst part of the series.
It's absolutely essential, easily the best part of the series especially in terms of writing quality, and there is no "modern day plot" per se anymore. After all, the "modern day" is just another layer of the simulation. It's all beginning to bleed together. "The future that is, the future that was, and the future that is yet to come", as Origins puts it.

Did you finish Odyssey? I really don't understand how people can have finished Odyssey and still think Ubisoft can "drop" what is essentially the fabric of the universe.
 

LuisGarcia

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
3,478
I played as Alexios and thought he was a great character. I actually don't think he gets enough credit and think complaints about his voice actor are wrong. He plays the arrogant mercenary very well.

I am a male and I prefer playing as males in games when given the choice. It's great that Kassandra is there for people who want to play as a female though.
 

Dark1x

Digital Foundry
Verified
Oct 26, 2017
3,530
sounds about right. I remember on gaf everyone was convinced femshep was way more popular... then it turned out only 10% of gamers played as her hah.
Ha, I went with male Shep just due to the quality of his character model. Most other human models look awful in ME and the hair rendering was even worse. That's an immediate turn-off for me.
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,297
It's absolutely essential, easily the best part of the series especially in terms of writing quality, and there is no "modern day plot" per se anymore. After all, the "modern day" is just another layer of the simulation. It's all beginning to bleed together. "The future that is, the future that was, and the future that is yet to come", as Origins puts it.

Did you finish Odyssey? I really don't understand how people can have finished Odyssey and still think Ubisoft can "drop" what is essentially the fabric of the universe.

Especially with the way Odyssey ended, there's no way to get rid of the "modern day" story. We're too far into it now.
 

BrassDragon

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,154
The Netherlands
It's absolutely essential, easily the best part of the series especially in terms of writing quality, and there is no "modern day plot" per se anymore. After all, the "modern day" is just another layer of the simulation. It's all beginning to bleed together. "The future that is, the future that was, and the future that is yet to come", as Origins puts it.

Did you finish Odyssey? I really don't understand how people can have finished Odyssey and still think Ubisoft can "drop" what is essentially the fabric of the universe.

You're correct that the modern day storyline is the glue that holds everything together but the problem is not the content but the dramatic execution: there is just no emotional connection to the characters and the stakes in the modern day.

You obviously enjoy the intellectual challenge of figuring out the puzzle of the meta-narrative but that level of engagement just doesn't happen with the mass audience these games are being made for... most people want the emotional investment as well. It's obvious that the writing room knows what they're doing but game director after game director has pared down the modern day segments to the point where we only have perfunctory exposition, some very broad strokes characterisation, almost no dramatic tension and all pertinent information hidden in optional documents/emails.

So yes, Layla is key to the whole AC universe but the way she's been presented and how players interact with her just doesn't resonate... I don't fault players for the sentiment that Ubi should drop modern day altogether, it's a problem of their own making and I'd like to see the devs do better.
 
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unfashionable

Member
Oct 29, 2017
2,072
Not a bad percent compared to say mass effect. I normally always like to play as a man (with options, making it look like me) in an RPG, This is for immersion since its "me" in the game

But Kassandra completely won me over. She;s pretty in a gitl next door kind of way and not over sexualized. And her voice acting combined with expressions for the lines told fits so well. Her tone of voice is so fitting like when she is making sarcastic remarks.

Fantastic game and best playable character in any AC IMO (Kassandra)
 

Deleted member 1777

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
637
When I get round to it I'll definitely play as Kassandra as from everything I've seen I think I'll enjoy her performance more. In regards to Mass Effect I just couldn't get on with Jennifer Hales Femshep, at least in the first game. Really didn't enjoy her performance. MaleShep all the way, Mark Meers dry sarcasm constantly makes me laugh.
 

Thorrgal

Member
Oct 26, 2017
12,327
I'm playing as Kassandra and I'm actually a bit disappointed. I guess I expected too much (To be fair I think the same thing would've happened with Alexios.)

Overall I liked Origins story better, but I'm still not done so we'll see.
 

Cripterion

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,104
This is why switching from all male characters to allowing player choice is nonsense when it comes to promoting diverse characters compared to actually introducing set female characters.

It doesn't help that all of the marketing material and the box art had Alexios. It's Ubisoft's cowardly lip service towards diversity while still safely promoting their male character over their female one.

Oh c'mon. The choice was given, people prefered the one over the other. Get over it.
 

Yibby

Member
Nov 10, 2017
1,778
The first hour or so i was not sure if Kassandra was the right choice, but after some Story revelations i think Kassandra was the perfect choice. It makes so much more sense for me to play as her, i don't know why there is even a option to play Alexios ;)
 

LuisGarcia

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
3,478
The first hour or so i was not sure if Kassandra was the right choice, but after some Story revelations i think Kassandra was the perfect choice. It makes so much more sense for me to play as her, i don't know why there is even a option to play Alexios ;)

Choice is never a bad thing for a game like this. I personally loved playing as Alexios.
 

Deleted member 10847

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,343
I usually play with characters that i identify most and since im a man i choose the male counterpart 99% of the time. If the game only has a female protagonist i dont have any problem with it.
 

Dr. Caroll

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
8,111
You're correct that the modern day storyline is the glue that holds everything together but the problem is not the content but the dramatic execution: there is just no emotional connection to the characters and the stakes in the modern day.

You obviously enjoy the intellectual challenge of figuring out the puzzle of the meta-narrative but that level of engagement just doesn't happen with the mass audience these games are being made for... most people want the emotional investment as well. It's obvious that the writing room knows what they're doing but game director after game director has paired down the modern day segments to the point where we only have perfunctory exposition, some very broad strokes characterisation, almost no dramatic tension and all pertinent information hidden in optional documents/emails.

So yes, Layla is key to the whole AC universe but the way she's been presented and how players interact with her just doesn't resonate... I don't fault players for the sentiment that Ubi should drop modern day altogether, it's a problem of their own making and I'd like to see the devs do better.
IMO, it's part of a larger design shift in Ubisoft's games. In the old days, Ubisoft had characters like Desmond, Ezio, Jade, Jason Brody. Strongly defined characters who are developed through cutscenes and a linear story. They don't do that anymore. Far Cry 5's Rook is a silent cipher. Kassanda in AC: Odyssey is a great character, but she has essentially minutes of traditional linear story development spread over a 20-50 hour long game. Anything that doesn't fit into the non-linear "explore the world, meet characters, solve their problems" formula is pushed into the background. It's very important and Ubisoft take this world building very seriously, but they're not going to lock you in a room and feed you exposition. Or if they do lock you in a room it'll be for under a minute. Ubisoft are creating games for the kind of people who ragequit Half-Life 2 because it made them stand in a room and listen to Barney and Dr Kleiner talk. Ubisoft have tried to broaden the appeal of their games by making them gameplay focused above all else. I'd argue this has been effective to some degree, but it has alienated older Ubisoft fans who loved the likes of AC2, and it has caused these newer AC fans to resent legacy story stuff. There are some people who hate cutscenes in the Far Cry games. They just want to shoot things. They're not interested in characters, story, plotting, world building, or any of that stuff. And Ubisoft cultivated this mentality intentionally. But they wanna have their cake and eat it, too. They want to have their 2deep4u plots with hidden meta layers and clever bits. But they also want to create games that appeal to people who hate storytelling. And obviously you can't please everyone all the time.

Some people complain that, "Oh, if only Ubisoft hired better writers they'd create emotionally engaging narratives like <insert other game series here>", but the problem is Ubisoft don't want to create those types of stories because those kind of stories almost invariable involve telling the player a story, and Ubisoft's lead creative has a "Don't tell me a story" ethos. The disgruntlement some have with Layla's storytelling (and I'll admit I wish it was flashed out and advancing faster) is actually tied to Ubisoft's direction as a company. Remember when Assassin's Creed games had set pieces in them? Like, actual set pieces? Ubisoft have moved away from all of that stuff in favor of non-linear exploration and emergent game design. Yea, they have cutscenes. Yea, they have SOME set pieces, albeit really loosely scripted ones. But they're few and far between.

If Ubisoft were making a game like The Last of Us 2, it would be an open world game where Ellie spends 40+ hours wandering around solving crimes and shit. There would be a bit of personal drama thrown in there, but the linear story people love in Naughty Dog games would be pared back to literally minutes. Slow walking sections? "Burn it with fire!" screams the Ubisoft executive. Those long cutscenes, those long conversations, those long sections where you can't do whatever you want -- those would be pared down and removed. AC: Odyssey and The Witcher 3 are kinda interesting to compare in the sense that while AC: Odyssey is based on TW3, it's created with a mindset that a game like TW3 is boring because the cutscenes go on and on. Also boring because it tells you a story instead of having thousands of stories you can tell yourself. Yet those long cutscenes and character moments that arise from linear plotting and traditional pacing are why a lot of fans like TW3.

Just look at how drastically the approach to storytelling has shifted between Beyond Good & Evil and Beyond Good & Evil 2.
 

SprachBrooks

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
1,353
Not surprised at all. I really wish Assassin's Creed would move away from the choice of character bullshit and just tell a single story line. They're more likely to opt for male though considering the demographics, not that it bothers me as I played as Alexios anyway.
 

ket

Member
Jul 27, 2018
12,972
Alexios is dull, but he was the one featured on all the advertising I saw and the game's loading screen.

Also, Kassandra is...weird. The game's script was obviously written with a male main character in mind. The fact that no one remarks on a woman doing the things Kassndra does in ancient Greece is very, very jarring. The game would have been much better if Kassandra were the only playable character and she had to brute force her way through a misogynist world.

AC Odyssey narrative director has said that she didn't want this for the game: https://news.ubisoft.com/en-us/article/330338/women-of-ubisoft-melissa-maccoubrey
 

Nintendo

Prophet of Regret
Member
Oct 27, 2017
13,383
The first hour or so i was not sure if Kassandra was the right choice, but after some Story revelations i think Kassandra was the perfect choice. It makes so much more sense for me to play as her, i don't know why there is even a option to play Alexios ;)

For people who think Alexios is the perfect choice.
 

sibarraz

Prophet of Regret - One Winged Slayer
Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
18,107
By the way, I played with Kassandra, if I pick Alexios

Then Kassandra will be my little sister like Alexios is my little brother when I choose her?
 

Mars People

Comics Council 2020
Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,195
Isn't the male character on the box art?
That's basically the developer telling you which character is the 'canon' one.
So it's not surprising most people picked him.
 

Baphomet

Member
Dec 8, 2018
16,989
I normally choose the male option , but I heard Kas was great , so I chose to play as her, its been good so far..... no regerts.
 

Blade Wolf

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
9,512
Taiwan
Nothing wrong about that but I honestly expect most people to play as K.

I always play as my own gender in RPG, always. Immersion is a big part of why I play role playing games. It's the reason why I always play as a human in Elder Scrolls games. I don't know about you but that's an okay thing in my opinion.

Anyway, this isn't surprising...just sad.

Why is it sad, am I not allowed to play as my own gender in an RPG?

Preach. I started as Kassandra, got done with Kephallonia, and restarted the game as Alexios. She was a decent character and the VA for her was ok, but Alexios to me was the better protagonist. I wish he was the canon choice.

Alexios is the canon here, he is on the boxart, Kassandra isn't.
 
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Persephone

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,434
ngl I'm laughing at the dudes getting offended at the idea that the next protagonist should be exclusively female. us female asscreed fans have been dealing with male protagonists for 10+ years but no one ever asked us our opinion, we just sucked it up and dealt with it. also ubisoft not making kass the sole protagonist bc they were scared of dudebros or whatever is peak cowardice. next protagonist should be a woman and that's the 🍵
 

stone616

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
1,429
I have no problem playing as a female protagonist if that's the way the story is predefined to be but as a man I'll always pick the male character if given the choice because that's what I more closely relate to.

It almost seems as if people are acting like if the choice is available you're obligated to play as a woman. I've never picked a woman avatar if there was a male one available and I probably won't in the future.
 

Deleted member 888

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,361
If given a choice the majority will probably pick the avatar that most closely resembles their own gender. I don't know why this would surprise anyone?

Putting aside jokes about men making their World of Warcraft avatars female (often female healer) in order to roleplay a woman and beg for free shit off other men, that's just how it's going to go for the vast majority of players. They're conditioned to think an avatar is some sort of representation of themselves in a game which offers choice.

Sometimes people even go as far as to try and match their own eye colour, hairstyle and so on. Although racial selectors and/or gender selectors tend to be the first and most dominant used selections to project yourself onto your avatar. Those are the two immutable characteristics people tend to hold closest to them, and then in fantasy things like muscles, weight, hairstyle, hair colour and so on are the sliders people choose "favourites". Or choose things they weren't given at birth by "mother nature" themselves.

Such as a man may be happy to choose the male avatar to represent themselves, but they aren't going to make the avatar 5ft4 if that resembles their real height. The avatar will probably be the Michael Jordan setting because "escapism from reality". Unless you enjoy playing the dwarf/troll races lol.

Assassins Creed only allows selection of male or female and other characteristics like race or hair/eyes/etc are pre-determined. So you'll probably find the majority of men will pick to play a man and the majority of women will pick to play a woman. For the majority, it's as simple as that, with whatever crossovers and truthful arguments around marketing exist on the fringes (men playing the woman, or women playing the man, or comments about how marketing influenced people to play Alexios).
 
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FarronFox

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,429
Melbourne, Australia
Isn't the male character on the box art?
That's basically the developer telling you which character is the 'canon' one.
So it's not surprising most people picked him.

Alexios is the canon here, he is on the boxart, Kassandra isn't.

Kassandra is the featured character in the latest Assassin's Creed novel based on Odyssey, which pretty much makes her the 'canon' choice.

Also if the box art you're seeing shows Alexios, then flip it over and you'll see Kassandra. It's what quite a few games do these days in providing two different covers (Wonder Boy and Doom are two recent releases that come to mind for me).

When I have the option, I always choose a male.

When I have the option I'll pretty much choose anything but the male human as it seems just the old boring standard choice.
 

RPGam3r

Member
Oct 27, 2017
13,514
ITT I learned that choice is best until the numbers don't work out the way some expected and then choice is not good enough.

I played as Kassandra and it was awesome, but some of responses in here are fucking weird.
 

Rendering...

Member
Oct 30, 2017
19,089
Kassandra seems like a cool character. But speaking as a keen fan of sexy hunks, Alexios is the natural choice. Look at that face. And that everything else.
 

LuisGarcia

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
3,478
ngl I'm laughing at the dudes getting offended at the idea that the next protagonist should be exclusively female. us female asscreed fans have been dealing with male protagonists for 10+ years but no one ever asked us our opinion, we just sucked it up and dealt with it. also ubisoft not making kass the sole protagonist bc they were scared of dudebros or whatever is peak cowardice. next protagonist should be a woman and that's the 🍵


Why does she need to be the sole protagonist? Surely choice is a good thing?

Everyone gets what they want then.
 

Deleted member 888

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,361
ITT I learned that choice is best until the numbers don't work out the way some expected and then choice is not good enough.

I played as Kassandra and it was awesome, but some of responses in here are fucking weird.

1/3rd is actually up slightly over Mass Effect

ME 1

As if I needed any further proof that other people are wrong, BioWare have revealed to VG247that only 18% of Mass Effect players pick the lady Shepard.

https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2011/07/20/only-18-of-mass-effect-players-play-female/

ME 2

Developer BioWare has revealed some fascinating statistics mined from players of Mass Effect 2. Unsurprising may be the fact that 80% of players chose a male Commander Shepard for their avatar.

https://kotaku.com/bioware-drops-mind-blowing-mass-effect-2-player-stats-452575473

ME 3

Lf4LVY2.png


https://www.digitalspy.com/gaming/m...fect-3-infographic-reveals-series-statistics/

Resetera has a sample size of around 40,000, of which maybe hundreds may respond to a poll, but games like ME and AC sell to millions and millions so what I said above will hold true for the majority. When it comes to sex/gender, it's a characteristic many like to project onto their avatar.

If you're roleplaying "saving the world" or whatever it is in some RPG, many do as they do in their dreams at night. Imagine themselves as the hero.
 
Oct 27, 2017
7,466
ITT I learned that choice is best until the numbers don't work out the way some expected and then choice is not good enough.

I played as Kassandra and it was awesome, but some of responses in here are fucking weird.
Ubisoft responded to the request that we be given a choice, and now some people are mad that there is a choice because the majority aren't choosing the one they want them to, and thus want there to be no choice to ensure the "right" choice is made. Fortunately, they're a tiny percentage of the audience. Choices are good, and this game proves it. It was one of the better games I played this year, and if I do play it again, I'll choose Kassandra and have a different experience than I had the first time.
 

Rendering...

Member
Oct 30, 2017
19,089
1/3rd is actually up slightly over Mass Effect

ME 1



https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2011/07/20/only-18-of-mass-effect-players-play-female/

ME 2



https://kotaku.com/bioware-drops-mind-blowing-mass-effect-2-player-stats-452575473

ME 3

Lf4LVY2.png


https://www.digitalspy.com/gaming/m...fect-3-infographic-reveals-series-statistics/

Resetera has a sample size of around 40,000, of which maybe hundreds may respond to a poll, but games like ME and AC sell to millions and millions so what I said above will hold true for the majority. When it comes to sex/gender, it's a characteristic many like to project onto their avatar.

If you're roleplaying "saving the world" or whatever it is in some RPG, many do as they do in their dreams at night. Imagine themselves as the hero.
Players got this one right. MaleShep is hot and well acted. FemShep looks weird and her VA is OK. I caved to GAF's consensus that FemShep was the better choice by far and started a second playthrough with her, and she's, well, not. MaleShep is my favorite Shep on the Citadel.
 

Deleted member 888

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,361
Players got this one right. MaleShep is hot and well acted. FemShep looks weird and her VA is OK. I caved to GAF's consensus that FemShep was the better choice by far and started a second playthrough with her, and she's, well, not.

That still has some subjectivity around it, but sure, we can probably say Ubisoft has done a better female protagonist here.

At the end of the day though, you'll still find a lot of the majority will pick the avatar that they feel more closely resembles them, even if they've read some opinions online that one has a better story/acting/voice acting than the other.

Outside of hardcore gaming forums, most of the millions that buy games buy them off the backs of one or two major mainstream reviews, or due to hype/marketing/word of mouth. They ain't sitting on forums arguing about the complexities of choosing male shep over fem shep. They buy a game, IF it has a choice, they pick the choice they feel most comfortable with/resembles them closest, then they play.
 

ΑGITΩ

The Fallen
Oct 28, 2017
695
Why does she need to be the sole protagonist? Surely choice is a good thing?

Everyone gets what they want then.
Dont mind me tossing in my 2 cents, but as an AC fan from the get go, as someone who plays these games hoping for some payoff to the overarching storyline and ubisoft consistently shitting on that, the option of choice also fucks with the lore of it all. Their explanation this round was that the DNA is so old and fragmented that it doesnt know if the actual historical figure was kassandra or alexios, so theres your first strike. Because of this, the story is the exact same regardless but then you get the tie in to the modern day and whoever you pick shows up, cementing that regardless of your choice, you picked the correct option. Thats strike 2. So now are future games that follow Layla in the modern game make note of that? I just feel that they are consistently ruining the main reason i buy these games, if they wanted to do full choice, they should just create 2 storylines for 2 different characters, that i would be fine with. They just have to actually flesh it out, Origins wouldve been great if they gave you an Aya side to the story, that happened Adjacent to Bayeks. But this might be asking too much of Ubisoft.