What do you propose we do? And am I part of the white supremacy despite where my ancestors and parents hail from?
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U.S. Attorney General William Barr to skip House hearing Thursday
- Thread starter Coyote Starrk
- Start date
What do you propose we do? And am I part of the white supremacy despite where my ancestors and parents hail from?
I'm an old, and as evidenced by my post count, I don't just post on this forum. I'm not constantly posting roasts and kudos.
I'm not going to get into the litany of ways I've helped through my life, but yes, I have donated my time and labour to anti racist, anti capitalist, and other movements here in Canada. But that's not the point. I'm sure you've helped too. I don't presume to judge. Some people may not be able to help other than donating time. Some money.
My whole point is that I don't presume to speak for a group of people - in the case of your argument, the vast majority of non white rebuplicans - because I'm sure I have little in common with them.
My family had nothing to do with the Nazis, and my father left Europe after WW2 to come here for a better life. Consequently, I'm pro immigration because I want others to have the same opportunity. I acknowledge the privilege that I have in my life, but I'm not some trust fund frat boy. I certainly don't have my foot on the acceleration pedal.
Hopefully you understand my point a bit more now. If we met in person, perhaps we may have more in common than anticipated.
I'm quoting fucking literature, actually.
"He deserves worse than impeachment", the same way the expression has always been used to mean someone deserves worse than the thing it explicitly mentions. Which tells you nothing about whether or not they're going to proceed with issuing articles of Impeachment because it's not meant to.
Can you people please explain to me why you're all so gung ho to move everything out of the House and hand the whole thing over to the Senate and Mitch McConnell?
Because that's who handles things after the articles of Impeachment have been issued and passed.
The House's involvement is done.
I'm not sure what you mean by the white supremacist part?
She can say whatever she wants, but she should at least be clear about it. "he deserves worse" is pointless rhetoric, that's my point. What the fuck is this supposed to mean in context.
That makes no sense. If that's is how he felt, it would have been a conclusion report.
Impeach in the house. And if McConnell and the GOP refuse to act, use that as part of the narrative in 2020. The GOP doesnt care about the rule of law.
It's a political move. Dems are being framed as toothless because we keep talking about crimes and how the public is being lied to. Impeachment proceedings would be symolic of where Dems stand on the side of history and it would be a motivator the stand up for the rule of law. Its a calculation however, is it worth posturing when you know your effort will fail? I think it is too early to know exactly what Pelosi has in mind for how far this will go. Either way i think the worst thing to do is for Dems to go "Oh you!" and move on to the next topic.
As much as I'd like to read this wonderful derail, would it be possible to take it to another thread that's not about *checks notes* William Barr skipping today's house hearing?
Here in America, it's what white supremacists refer to their brown or black friends as.
I'm flipping it.
Dems really should do something today other than just put up a glass chicken. Give us a definitive Mueller date or something. This shit is way too blatant to just wave away.
I think he is - it's just going to take longer than anyone here would like. It's been less than 24 hours since his Senate testimony ended, and he's also facing a contempt charge for failing to turn over the unredacted report, coming as early as Monday.
Those are surprisingly strong words from her. I know people want action, I do too. But nothing wrong with stating your feelings first before taking action and she's usually very careful with her wording.
She's calling Barr a criminal. When has she been so forceful in her language?
So fucking DO something about it, JFC
So tired of the last 2 years of "LOOK AT THIS CRIME THE REPUBLICANS DID" with minimal actual consequences
This is my feeling too. I almost feel like the Dems were caught off guard about how obviously Barr lied yesterday, like they weren't expecting they'd be able to nail him so hard so easily.
She wasn't making a public atatement to the press she was in the bull pen talking to her damn caucus. It's not supposed to mean anything to you.
You are missing my point. The only functioning half of our legislative branch is the House. That's where any and all actual investigations are happening. If you pass articles of Impeachment tou send that all to the Senate. And then nothing is happening.
Why is feeling like something is being done while achieving nothing in a practical sense more important than actually investigating these matters to you?
Again. I remind you all that Nixon was never impeached. All the damning inquiries and grillings that eventually toppled his Presidency? That's the part we're in right now.
Agreed.
As someone from another country, the US is really scary place on politics.
In fact, I believe the Republican Party represents a danger to humankind.
Same. It is extremely interesting how overall screwed up American Politics really is.
How many lines in the sand do Republicans have to cross before Democrats actually issue a subpoena? I mean it's the bare minimum they can do and they just sit on it.
If Mueller does not publicly come out and say that he believes Donald Trump committed Obstruction of Justice, and that AG Barr was wrong about his initial conclusion in that summary he gave, then this is all a waste of time.
I don't fucking know because she wasn't making a statement to me either. She's mad, whether that was.a.call to some kind of action or just expressing to her colleagues gow pissed about it she is, I don't fucking know. Because it was something she said in a whip meeting and we have no further context than that. There's a perfectly good public statement for you to go scrutinize.
Moreover, you never answered my question on why you're so eager to let the Senate take over entirely.
Quebec and Ontario recently elected populist racists and on the federal level conservatives are leading the polls, so as Canadians there's no need for us to look at the US to feel scared right now. A simple look in the mirror will do.
Yep. The whole world is turning to shit. If it hasn't gotten to you yet, give it some time.
I personally think they're moving way to slow on impeachment, but it looks like the current plan from leadership is to show the administration repeatedly stonewalling them to add Contempt of Congress into the articles of impeachment for trump. Both Lieu and Pelosi mentioned Article 3 of Nixons articles of impeachment this morning.
Near the end of this video:
I am not really advocationg for any particular strategy. I am saying that there are merits to a number of approaches and that questioning the value of a strategy is warrented. One could argue that any number of damning inquiries of any magnitude would do jack shit with this administration, but I dont think it's as cut and dry as move to impeach or don't impeach. I can see an argument for establishing a narrative being more valuable than revelations any particular investigation could come to.
Why are you getting so unnecessarily heated over a dumb, meaningless statement being criticized? It's not the first time she's said something like this, and it's frustrating to read.
I didn't answer your question because I never said anything about the house/senate; you're framing an argument I never made. I said she should be making a clear statement, not some empty "he deserves worse" shit that makes no sense and dodges the issue.
You think the CAQ is comparable to Republicans in the White House, and that Legault is comparable to Trump? Ok.......
I took Pelosi's comment to mean that DJT should go to prison for what he's done. I don't think impeachment is on the horizon, unfortunately.
I literally can't with the tweeting. I tweeted her back and told her to fucking do something. Don't tweet about it, do something. I'm tired of the decorum, the Republicans would've eaten a Democratic President alive by now decorum be damned.
Their attempt to flush thousands of immigrant applications down the drain is inhumane. People waiting for years as the state of their countries threatens their very lives and the lives of their children, only to be told to start the process over from scratch.
Not to mention their legislation against religious symbols is more likely to fuel the fires of Islamic fundamentalism than anything else.
Fuck la CAQ, they don't deserve a prize for being less terrible than the GOP.
Even then, decorum has nothing to do with it. It's their fucking job.
It happened YESTERDAY ffs. The god damn speaker of the house classifying the AG as such is a big deal
Crimes are investigated/prosecuted by the justice department (controlled by Barr) -- that includes charges like contempt of congress or lying to congress. There is nothing Democrats can do that is not symbolic (ie as effective as those tweets). They can and should impeach Barr and a number of other officials but without the Senate it won't matter. You would still end up yelling DO SOMETHING because it would just be a show.
They can always have Barr physically dragged in to testify though, which I would pay to see
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You all want impeachment so bad, I get it, but it's the one bullet that you can't reuse. The only way impeachment passes the Senate is if the GOP turns, and that's clearly not going to happen.
Explore all these avenues, keep the pressure going and hammer the corruption. You impeach and fail, I can't imagine what the other side of that would be.
Explore all these avenues, keep the pressure going and hammer the corruption. You impeach and fail, I can't imagine what the other side of that would be.
Can't disagree on this point. But no, I don't think they had the same things in mind that american republicans have, when they promote white supremacy and separate families at the border.
We don't want religion interfering with state affairs in Quebec, whatever that religion is. State religion neutrality, separation of state and religion, these are good principles every serious modern state should consider.
If it fuels the fires of Islamic fundamentalism to ask people in authority to remove religious symbols than the problem is with fundamentalists. By the way people who already wear religious signs can keep them (acquired rights).
She sees the scenario with the media as one where, in a desire to frame this shitshow as normal instead of a crisis and not get called biased by Conservatives, the inevitable failure to convict Trump in the Republican Senate will be reported as an exoneration instead of a sign of widespread Republican complicity and end up helping Trump in 2020.
You impeach and the Senate stonewalls, you make their obstruction the narrative. Trump shouldn't get a pass in the house even if the GOP in the Senate are coconspirators.
If impeachment happens and fails in the senate then you can easily control the narrative that the republican party is shielding Trump from accountability.
I still maintain that not impeaching Trump because of the potential optics of failure sets a horrible precedent for the future of US politics.
I don't think it is impossible that the GOP Senate would convict someone like Barr in an impeachment trial. They care about their own power too and lying to congress or refusing to testify greatly diminishes it. I mean, we aren't at that point yet but it is possible we get there unlike impeaching Trump which is a non-starter for the GOP. The HFC wanted to impeach Rosenstein just last year for
Disagree. We either believe the President & Co. are unfit, or we don't.
If we don't, yes, give it up, run on policy, don't play his game.
If we do, we pursue. Even if there's "inevitable" roadblocks such as a few votes in the Senate.
Force these complicit fucks to vote. Force them to put their choice on record. See if they stand united at that point. If they still put party before country history will judge them, as will voters.
If we don't press against this Republican party, they win. Talking to media, talking to Fox, means nothing. Party lip service is easy, even in times like this. Nixon was protected, until he wasn't, and nothing changes if you cop out and let them snivel and hide in the shadows.
Impeachment might be "too good for him" but it's a good first step. Democrats need to stop talking and start acting.