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Lime

Banned for use of an alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,266
Perhaps noth surprising from the series, but Julie Munch from Wired reviewed the game's story mode:

For proof, look no further than the game's choice to begin in the most obvious place possible: Omaha Beach. The single-player campaign has you play as Private Red Daniels, a sentimental Southern recruit who sounds as if he's trying to channel every cast member of Friday Night Lights at once. You storm beaches. You liberate France. Then you participate in the Battle of the Bulge, and then crossing of the Rhine. Check mark by check mark, Call of Duty: WW2 reconstitutes an ur-American World War 2 story, derivative and dull. A story about soulful American heroes, told without soul.

As an example: like in the better games, there are moments here where you move outside of your protagonist's perspective. In the best mission in the game, you play as a woman called Rousseau, a leader of the French resistance in Paris. You infiltrate a Nazi garrison, steal necessary supplies for the liberation, and then...quietly exit stage left, as the Americans take over and do the real work. Everywhere, the perspective of Daniels—and with him, the United States—is centered to the detriment of any other perspective, or even historical accuracy. The D-Day invasion depicts only American soldiers, when in reality the decisive attack was the result of the combined efforts of American, British, and Canadian troops. The Soviets, despite suffering the largest amount of casualties in the entire war, are never even mentioned. Call of Duty: WW2 is blisteringly patriotic, at the expense of both good taste and narrative effectiveness.

People might argue that this is what you get from a CoD game with all its glorification of US imperial militarism, but after Infinite War, I thought that at least Activision was willing to take a minor step in the direction towards more diverse perspectives and characters as IW had an really great diverse cast of nations. This year's WWII also flies in the face of the very first Call of Duty that memorably had players take part in re-taking Stalingrad as a Soviet soldier. DICE even showed us with the BF1 campaign that you can do multiple stories of various slices of the conflict in an interesting manner. So having yet another "US saves the world" that erases the major importance of e.g. the Soviet and the other allies make this form of nationalist "historicizing" disappointing and potentially dangerous in these times of already high points of nationalism and cultural homogeneity. But perhaps most of all, it's a pretty boring take after the tons of already existing US media narratives of WWII.
 

Absoludacrous

One Winged Slayer
The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
3,184
I obviously can't speak for the developer, but the impression I got is they were tasked with making a WW2 game and didn't have any knowledge/interest in the actual war. So we basically got the result of someone marathoning Band of Brothers and Saving Private Ryan and saying "Ok, I got this."
 

Potterson

Member
Oct 28, 2017
6,414
User was warned for this post for: Ignorant Comments
"The Soviets, despite suffering the largest amount of casualties in the entire war, are never even mentioned."

Great! Soviet missions in first CoD were glorifying them so much I wanted to puke (yes, even with this silly "shoot those who want to retreat" thing).

I think devs said they wanted to tell the story of one squad. I'm not an expert but I guess American forces were the only one that played a big role in EVERY major operation and every big battle on Western Front right? And the campaing is showing us those most "iconic" moments. So - for example - a Canadian squad wouldn't have as "exciting" (for viewer) road to Berlin.
 

Brerlappin

Self-Requested Ban
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
415
"The Soviets, despite suffering the largest amount of casualties in the entire war, are never even mentioned."

Great! Soviet missions in first CoD were glorifying them so much I wanted to puke (yes, even with this silly "shoot those who want to retreat" thing).

I think devs said they wanted to tell the story of one squad. I'm not an expert but I guess American forces were the only one that played a big role in EVERY major operation and every big battle on Western Front right? And the campaing is showing us those most "iconic" moments. So - for example - a Canadian squad wouldn't have as "exciting" (for viewer) road to Berlin.

Are.. are you fucking serious?
 

KorrZ

Member
Oct 27, 2017
797
Canada
I mean this isn't really a COD:WW2 problem, almost all American media depicting WW2 has this problem.

It's unfortunately common in US consciousness to overlook the sacrifices of millions of French, British, Soviet, and countless other nations.
 

Alexandros

Member
Oct 26, 2017
17,811
"The Soviets, despite suffering the largest amount of casualties in the entire war, are never even mentioned."

Great! Soviet missions in first CoD were glorifying them so much I wanted to puke (yes, even with this silly "shoot those who want to retreat" thing).

I think devs said they wanted to tell the story of one squad. I'm not an expert but I guess American forces were the only one that played a big role in EVERY major operation and every big battle on Western Front right? And the campaing is showing us those most "iconic" moments. So - for example - a Canadian squad wouldn't have as "exciting" (for viewer) road to Berlin.

I am speechless.
 

pegaso

Member
Oct 28, 2017
338
"The Soviets, despite suffering the largest amount of casualties in the entire war, are never even mentioned."

Great! Soviet missions in first CoD were glorifying them so much I wanted to puke (yes, even with this silly "shoot those who want to retreat" thing).

I think devs said they wanted to tell the story of one squad. I'm not an expert but I guess American forces were the only one that played a big role in EVERY major operation and every big battle on Western Front right? And the campaing is showing us those most "iconic" moments. So - for example - a Canadian squad wouldn't have as "exciting" (for viewer) road to Berlin.

So the plan is working I guess.
 

2112

Using multiple alt accounts
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
1,696
Portsmouth
MURICA FUCK YEA

They know what sells, fuck any historical accuracy.

No wonder so many Americans have the "We saved your asses" view of WW2.
 

Deleted member 31817

Nov 7, 2017
30,876
"The Soviets, despite suffering the largest amount of casualties in the entire war, are never even mentioned."

Great! Soviet missions in first CoD were glorifying them so much I wanted to puke (yes, even with this silly "shoot those who want to retreat" thing).

I think devs said they wanted to tell the story of one squad. I'm not an expert but I guess American forces were the only one that played a big role in EVERY major operation and every big battle on Western Front right? And the campaing is showing us those most "iconic" moments. So - for example - a Canadian squad wouldn't have as "exciting" (for viewer) road to Berlin.
Do you know what year WW2 started and what year US forces entered the war?
 

Starviper

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,431
Minneapolis
For a series that's been around as long as it has, you'd think they would avoid doing something like this. I'm sure it'll still sell great in the US, while likely being shit on everywhere else.
 

JINX

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,473
"The Soviets, despite suffering the largest amount of casualties in the entire war, are never even mentioned."

Great! Soviet missions in first CoD were glorifying them so much I wanted to puke (yes, even with this silly "shoot those who want to retreat" thing).

I think devs said they wanted to tell the story of one squad. I'm not an expert but I guess American forces were the only one that played a big role in EVERY major operation and every big battle on Western Front right? And the campaing is showing us those most "iconic" moments. So - for example - a Canadian squad wouldn't have as "exciting" (for viewer) road to Berlin.

Maybe stick to Dead Space fiction rather than Cod WW2's American fiction.
 

Cranston

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
1,377
Enemy at the Gates featured Bob Hoskins as a Russian general.

Now that, ladies and gentlemen, is acting.
 
Nov 1, 2017
8,061
giphy.gif


Duty Calls was so damn accurate on all fronts.
 

Dan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,957
"The Soviets, despite suffering the largest amount of casualties in the entire war, are never even mentioned."

Great! Soviet missions in first CoD were glorifying them so much I wanted to puke (yes, even with this silly "shoot those who want to retreat" thing).

I think devs said they wanted to tell the story of one squad. I'm not an expert but I guess American forces were the only one that played a big role in EVERY major operation and every big battle on Western Front right? And the campaing is showing us those most "iconic" moments. So - for example - a Canadian squad wouldn't have as "exciting" (for viewer) road to Berlin.

Astonishing.
 

HockeyBird

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,588
I loved the different view points in early COD games but I don't think COD: WWII has to have these other perspectives. Basically, the author's argument is "You can't tell a good and respectful WWII story unless you include every single nationality and view point". Some of the best war stories I've been in film, TV, etc. are told from one person's or one small group's viewpoint.

Again I liked switching viewpoints and campaigns in earlier COD games and I would love to see other, less talked about campaigns like in Poland or Finland or Middle East. But I think silly to say it's in poor taste to only show D-Day from the American perspective. I don't think anyone would want to play 5 different beach land levels.
 

KillerMan91

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,355
I guess Cold War left deep holes in knowledge of WWII in America. You couldn't give any credit to Soviets because they were mortal enemy after the war.
 

LossAversion

The Merchant of ERA
Member
Oct 28, 2017
10,704
"The Soviets, despite suffering the largest amount of casualties in the entire war, are never even mentioned."

Great! Soviet missions in first CoD were glorifying them so much I wanted to puke (yes, even with this silly "shoot those who want to retreat" thing).

I think devs said they wanted to tell the story of one squad. I'm not an expert but I guess American forces were the only one that played a big role in EVERY major operation and every big battle on Western Front right? And the campaing is showing us those most "iconic" moments. So - for example - a Canadian squad wouldn't have as "exciting" (for viewer) road to Berlin.
what1.gif
 

The Masked Mufti

The Wise Ones
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
3,989
Scotland
"The Soviets, despite suffering the largest amount of casualties in the entire war, are never even mentioned."

Great! Soviet missions in first CoD were glorifying them so much I wanted to puke (yes, even with this silly "shoot those who want to retreat" thing).

I think devs said they wanted to tell the story of one squad. I'm not an expert but I guess American forces were the only one that played a big role in EVERY major operation and every big battle on Western Front right? And the campaing is showing us those most "iconic" moments. So - for example - a Canadian squad wouldn't have as "exciting" (for viewer) road to Berlin.
Troll post?
 

Krakle

Member
Oct 27, 2017
243
"The Soviets, despite suffering the largest amount of casualties in the entire war, are never even mentioned."

Great! Soviet missions in first CoD were glorifying them so much I wanted to puke (yes, even with this silly "shoot those who want to retreat" thing).

I think devs said they wanted to tell the story of one squad. I'm not an expert but I guess American forces were the only one that played a big role in EVERY major operation and every big battle on Western Front right? And the campaing is showing us those most "iconic" moments. So - for example - a Canadian squad wouldn't have as "exciting" (for viewer) road to Berlin.

Sometimes its best not to comment when you don't know all of the facts.
 

Wiggles

Member
Oct 28, 2017
492
I think this is why World at War will remain my favorite game in the series to use the WWII setting. It's a gritty game with minimal amounts of patriotic cheese and characters who occupy more of a morally grey area than unequivocal "good". For example, the scene in which you execute surrendered German soldiers without trial - it feels bad to do it to an unarmed person laying down their arms, but you still remember the evil they did at Stalingrad. You maybe decide not to pull the trigger... but death by molotov ends up being worse for them. In the end, you are the good guy Allies and you win the war, but it doesn't feel like you have a clear conscience either. In World at War you also get a roughly equally split story between the Americans and Soviet perspective, showing the latter take the Reichstag in an awesome finale. I think even the fantastic soundtrack focusing on metal, electronic beats and mournful choirs destroys the cliched, overly heroic sounding strings that we'd normally hear in a WWII piece of work.
 
Nov 1, 2017
2,904
I mean this isn't really a COD:WW2 problem, almost all American media depicting WW2 has this problem.

It's unfortunately common in US consciousness to overlook the sacrifices of millions of French, British, Soviet, and countless other nations.
Pretty much this. Most sales for this game will probably be NA based so it makes sense that they're going to pander and make a digestible ra ra murica story.
 

BrucCLea13k87

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,947
Yeah the campaign sucks ass. No diversity. You play as a Texan 99 percent of the time and switch to a European in the only exciting mission (surprise!). Wish there was more diversity. Totally agree with the article.
 
Oct 27, 2017
15,043
"The Soviets, despite suffering the largest amount of casualties in the entire war, are never even mentioned."

Great! Soviet missions in first CoD were glorifying them so much I wanted to puke (yes, even with this silly "shoot those who want to retreat" thing).

I think devs said they wanted to tell the story of one squad. I'm not an expert but I guess American forces were the only one that played a big role in EVERY major operation and every big battle on Western Front right? And the campaing is showing us those most "iconic" moments. So - for example - a Canadian squad wouldn't have as "exciting" (for viewer) road to Berlin.

No. Read some fucking history books and stop waving your flag.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,799
I understand the criticism, but I think it's a bit overblown. Were people chastising HBO's Band of Brothers when it debuted because it followed a single Company within a single Division of the U.S. Army for effectively a period covering only one year of the war? No, because it was good entertainment. From what I've read, it sounds like that's the bigger flaw with COD:WWII's campaign. If it was really good, no one would complain about the perspective.

Also, to some extent we really have to consider the capitalism effect at play here. COD probably sells in far, far more quantities in the U.S. than in a country like Russia, so Activision is just playing to its base by focusing on American troops. That doesn't mean it is right to do so, or that it provides the best gameplay or story, but the goal of maximizing profits probably leads Activision to believe that a U.S.-focused narrative is the one that reaps the most financial rewards.
 
OP
OP

Lime

Banned for use of an alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,266
I mean this isn't really a COD:WW2 problem, almost all American media depicting WW2 has this problem.

It's unfortunately common in US consciousness to overlook the sacrifices of millions of French, British, Soviet, and countless other nations.

I guess it's more in contrast in this case when the very first Call of Duty pushed the envelope by having you play a Soviet soldier and Infinite Warfare last year was pretty good at doing things differently.

I loved the different view points in early COD games but I don't think COD: WWII has to have these other perspectives. Basically, the author's argument is "You can't tell a good and respectful WWII story unless you include every single nationality and view point". Some of the best war stories I've been in film, TV, etc. are told from one person's or one small group's viewpoint.

Again I liked switching viewpoints and campaigns in earlier COD games and I would love to see other, less talked about campaigns like in Poland or Finland or Middle East. But I think silly to say it's in poor taste to only show D-Day from the American perspective. I don't think anyone would want to play 5 different beach land levels.

No, the writer is arguing that it's a boring, uncreative, and historically inaccurate re-telling of the war, since we already have so many other instances of US exceptionalism in historical media.
 
Oct 26, 2017
5,435
I may be misunderstanding the basis of the argument in that article but I don't believe every game about a war needs to cram in every perspective of every ethnicity or nationality involved in said war.

This was simply a personal story of a man not wanting to let down another important person in his life after having already failed another.
 

Potterson

Member
Oct 28, 2017
6,414
Wow... OK, sorry, It sounded more trolly than I wanted.

But I don't understand why you accuse me of not knowing when the II world war started. I'm Polish. Soviets invaded Poland on September 17th 1939. 17 days after Nazis did the same thing. I guess that's why I'm not a fan of gloryfing Soviet Union in both movies and video games.

Sorry once again, I will not touch this subject ever again here.
 

xmassteps

Member
Oct 30, 2017
860
Saving Private Ryan clearly "broke" US media around WW2. Obviously there's been games where you play from different persectives but everything seems to go back round to "US troops in Europe". Would love a game that focuses on the lesser seen parts of the war; there's plenty of fascinating stories.
 

Cranston

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
1,377
The only thing that offended me about the campaign was that I couldn't shoot the surrendered Nazis during the Paris mission.

Not even in the leg, just to give them a limp.
 

Dyle

One Winged Slayer
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
29,938
I loved the different view points in early COD games but I don't think COD: WWII has to have these other perspectives. Basically, the author's argument is "You can't tell a good and respectful WWII story unless you include every single nationality and view point". Some of the best war stories I've been in film, TV, etc. are told from one person's or one small group's viewpoint.

Again I liked switching viewpoints and campaigns in earlier COD games and I would love to see other, less talked about campaigns like in Poland or Finland or Middle East. But I think silly to say it's in poor taste to only show D-Day from the American perspective. I don't think anyone would want to play 5 different beach land levels.
That's not what the article's trying to get at at all. What they are saying and what others have said about the campaign, is that it feels just like every other WWII campaign/movie viewed from the American perspective and that nothing it does is interesting/well done enough to justify its sameness. We've all seen Saving Private Ryan/Band of Brothers and played Bad Company, and this story does nothing to shake it up.

It's not that focusing on the US is bad, but that it is poorly done here, where identical stories have been told well elsewhere.
 

haozz

Member
Nov 7, 2017
126
Call of Duty campaigns are like FPS versions of Hollywood movies. Don't expect innovation from them, especially from a game that revisits the same ground that previous CoD games have thoroughly covered.

The American popular history narrative on WWII is so skewed that only in college history classes does one actually learn how Nazi Germany was defeated: by the Soviets.

Looking back at recent CoD games, I'd say Infinite Warfare stands out for having an interesting campaign that is validated by Rogue One basically sharing the same narrative arc.

The fans who will play the game for an entire year until next year's release don't care about the campaign anyway.
 

tazmin

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,526
Well it's American expectationalism that permeates everything in American media so it's not surprising.

On a slightly different side note, I read an interesting piece from an American reviewer about Dunkirk and how it treated it's nationalism compared to the chest thumping American nationalism. In a ideal world, this CoD could've offered those differences and philosophies from UK, France and Russia as well as the Commonwealth soldiers whose stories aren't often told in Western media.
 

Falconbox

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,600
Buffalo, NY
It's an American game that caters to American audiences (which are where most games are purchased). I'm not too surprised.

It's like complaining that a Hollywood war blockbuster "Americanizes" the central conflicts.
 

Deleted member 25108

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 29, 2017
2,877
Sorry, but this is a bit nonsensical to me. Any WW2 story is a story of either American exceptionalism or British exceptionalism.

To single Activision out for this is a bit shortsighted. The entirety of western media need to be called out for the white washing of history.
 

Cranston

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
1,377
Wow... OK, sorry, It sounded more trolly than I wanted.

But I don't understand why you accuse me of not knowing when the II world war started. I'm Polish. Soviets invaded Poland on September 17th 1939. 17 days after Nazis did the same thing. I guess that's why I'm not a fan of gloryfing Soviet Union in both movies and video games.

Sorry once again, I will not touch this subject ever again here.

You'll get a lot of stick, but for what it's worth, I understand completely why you would feel that way.
 

rochellepaws

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,452
Ireland
Glad this is being discussed. I've had the impression this issue was prolific throughout any sort of war media produced in the US. Very sick and tired of "America = good guys" type narratives while everyone else is pushed to the side.
 

Deified Data

Member
Oct 28, 2017
107
Well considering what passes for nationalism in the US nowadays we should at least be grateful you're not a plucky SS officer defending the Fatherland against the belligerent Allies who want to stifle your free speech.
 

Dan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,957
Wow... OK, sorry, It sounded more trolly than I wanted.

But I don't understand why you accuse me of not knowing when the II world war started. I'm Polish. Soviets invaded Poland on September 17th 1939. 17 days after Nazis did the same thing. I guess that's why I'm not a fan of gloryfing Soviet Union in both movies and video games.

Sorry once again, I will not touch this subject ever again here.

No, you should touch the subject again, - just dont forget to add this bit of context to your post.
 

Aselith

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,366
Wow... OK, sorry, It sounded more trolly than I wanted.

But I don't understand why you accuse me of not knowing when the II world war started. I'm Polish. Soviets invaded Poland on September 17th 1939. 17 days after Nazis did the same thing. I guess that's why I'm not a fan of gloryfing Soviet Union in both movies and video games.

Sorry once again, I will not touch this subject ever again here.

Because the US entered the war years after it started so saying they are the only country that participated in all the operations makes no sense
 

Deleted member 135

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
11,682
People might argue that this is what you get from a CoD game with all its glorification of US imperial militarism
You best be trolling if you think that America's actions in World War II were "imperial militarism".

Anti-American garbage. You know, it's okay to glorify one of the handful of times when a war was fought that was not only justified but a literal struggle between good and evil.

Plus, it's the specific story of a singular American squad. Of course it focuses on the Americans.
 

Yossarian

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
13,264
"The Soviets, despite suffering the largest amount of casualties in the entire war, are never even mentioned."

Great! Soviet missions in first CoD were glorifying them so much I wanted to puke (yes, even with this silly "shoot those who want to retreat" thing).

I think devs said they wanted to tell the story of one squad. I'm not an expert but I guess American forces were the only one that played a big role in EVERY major operation and every big battle on Western Front right? And the campaing is showing us those most "iconic" moments. So - for example - a Canadian squad wouldn't have as "exciting" (for viewer) road to Berlin.

raw
 

Tiber

Member
Nov 1, 2017
1,114
Well it's American expectationalism that permeates everything in American media so it's not surprising.

On a slightly different side note, I read an interesting piece from an American reviewer about Dunkirk and how it treated it's nationalism compared to the chest thumping American nationalism. In a ideal world, this CoD could've offered those differences and philosophies from UK, France and Russia as well as the Commonwealth soldiers whose stories aren't often told in Western media.

There's also the fact that it's Rememberance day coming soon to Britain and other places, so this game might be seen as an insult

Final note, I genuinely think if America had the war in their backyard, their nationalism would be drastically different


Who is going to view this as an insult to remembrance day? Its the same thing people have already seen portrayed in a thousand movies.

It is a US made video game catering to a (majority) US audience. Its not a school textbook, its made to entertain its target audience and I suspect it will be very successful. Perhaps not within left wing political circles, but I wonder how well previous COD games sold in that demographic?

Personally I have never bought a COD game, not my thing.
 
Oct 26, 2017
9,859
"The Soviets, despite suffering the largest amount of casualties in the entire war, are never even mentioned."

Great! Soviet missions in first CoD were glorifying them so much I wanted to puke (yes, even with this silly "shoot those who want to retreat" thing).

I think devs said they wanted to tell the story of one squad. I'm not an expert but I guess American forces were the only one that played a big role in EVERY major operation and every big battle on Western Front right? And the campaing is showing us those most "iconic" moments. So - for example - a Canadian squad wouldn't have as "exciting" (for viewer) road to Berlin.


LMAO