Ukraine International Airlines jetliner was accidentally shot down by Iranian missiles (UP: corroborated by Canada, Iran admits to it)
- Thread starter ElectricBlanketFire
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Igniting it is an intentional false strawman tho. He the original replier said create the conditions and he's correct
Iran/Iraq have been beefing for DECADES. That said there's a difference between tensions and assassinating the #2 dude of a country's government. LOL.
Me and my neighbor may hate each other, but I ain't gonna go punch his wife in the face, and sit back and act like nothing changed
Igniting it is an intentional false strawman tho. He the original replier said create the conditions and he's correct
Iran/Iraq have been beefing for DECADES. That said there's a difference between tensions and assassinating the #2 dude of a country's government. LOL.
Me and my neighbor may hate each other, but I ain't gonna go punch his wife in the face, and sit back and act like nothing changed
Arent they giving Ukraine the black box? Thats just what CNN said
They've as much credibility as North Korean officials at this point
Did Iran issue a no-fly order for civilian airlines? Otherwise it doesn't make sense that this can be considered an accident.
Do people really believe that an "automated defense system" exists? Even if the technology existed, which is unlikely, do you really think a competent military would place it right next to an civilian international airport where flights are landing and taking off from all the time?
If this was a shootdown, a flesh and blood military officer gave the order to fire. Likely as an accident or in a moment of panic.
How is it a bad take? Trump caused raised tensions in the area and as a result the plane was shot down.
Even if the hard intelligence backs up that the plane was shot down by a missile, I'm not even going to jump to the conclusion that it was Iran that did it. Especially if the US was tipped off that Iran's calculated reprisal attack would be happening later that evening.
Presumably he had deliberate plans to attack Americans in the middle east which is why he was offed. Its not like they picked the guy for no reason
Probably just a screw up. Doubt they'd intentionally attack a random Ukrainian flight with a bunch of Canadians on board while avoiding killing U.S. troops.
Either that, or it's a coincidence which some "U.S. Official" is lying about.
Not sure we'll ever know the absolute truth as obviously no one is getting access to investigate in Iran during a military conflict.
I'm with you on this one. When you fucking openly assassinate a high ranking official of another government, you are inviting military retaliation. There is no way I wont ascribe a portion of the responsibility of this to Trump.
It may not be his fault entirely but this shit doesn't happen if he is not such a fucking irresponsible idiot. It's not like civillian aircraft is shot out of the sky with any regularity in the region.
A Lufthansa flight bound for Tehran has turned around over Romania and is heading back to Germany
No, because they aren't officially at war, just chucking missiles and running proxy militias.
More hundreds of lives lost by two men waving their cocks at each other, disgusting.
Okay?
Ukrainians are on site of accident and conducting investigation as Iran gave them access.
That doesn't matter. You're missing my point. In a history of conflict, pointing to one part of the chain of events to assign blame is ridiculous....especially when you can point to something more direct (I.E. Iran's incompetence). We went to war because we wanted to (and made up reasons to do so), not because of anything specific Iraq did.
So in this analogy, the wife (Soleimani) is an innocent, unrelated party?
Logical thinking here is Lufthansa don't want their planes going to Iran in light of today's development
That's not really a reason to kill a high ranking official considering the middle east is basically a mexican standoff where everyone has plans to kill each other.
This goes back much further than what Trump did ... Soleimani has been acting with impunity for years.
Iran tried to assassinate a Saudi ambassador on U.S. soil! lol
I'm not advocating the strike last week, but apparently that plot was "inviting military retaliation" according to you.
It should require a staggering amount of incompetence to do this. I'm sure Iran will crack down hard on whoever authorized it and paint them as a rogue commander and not indicative of their normal military procedures, though I don't know how much the international community will buy that excuse.
Yes. And if this is the case, some dumbass shot a missle at a plane while on high alert without determining who it was....but if iran is on high alert, its because of something trump didnt need to do, on a whim.
Or they encountered a technical problem and turned back to the Lufthansa hub rather than continue on to a place with fewer facilities. Just playing it safe. Happens every day.
We had a peace treaty before Trump ripped it up. To pretend last week's strike didn't directly lead to the escalation to cause this is asinine unless Iran has been regularly shooting down commercial airliners the past decade?
Ugly side effect of war. If true, Iran fucked up massively, and so did Trump by starting this nonsense. RIP to those poor people
I had a bad feeling the day Trump decided to scrap the Iranian treaty.
I was 100% sure innocents were going to die the day Americans killed the Iranian officer. It was a stupid move.
Collateral damage always happen in war, or because people are afraid of war, or because they are using things that kill people!
People blaming Iran for the mistake are right, but they must not forget the number of hospitals, marriages, and civil planes the greatest military in the world destroyed.
I was 100% sure innocents were going to die the day Americans killed the Iranian officer. It was a stupid move.
Collateral damage always happen in war, or because people are afraid of war, or because they are using things that kill people!
People blaming Iran for the mistake are right, but they must not forget the number of hospitals, marriages, and civil planes the greatest military in the world destroyed.
This absolving Iran of its own responsibility is stupid. Full stop. Trump could have threatened to nuke Iran and it wouldn't have mattered. You're a country with military intelligence on high alert, not some child wandering down the street who got spooked by a stranger.
You think I wouldn't acribe any blame to Iran if the roles were reversed?
Is this suppose to be a gotcha? If you provoke a situation you think you don't share any blame for the collateral damage?
Like I said, are commerical flights being shot down in the region regularly for us not to put 2 and 2 together?
And obviously the primary blame goes to Iran. They fucked this up.
I already said that anything that happens as a response for trump's reckless action is on his shoulders. And i still believe that
Of course Iran deserves blame, but if they are retaliating from an attack, rogue elements shooting down planes and such are a big part of that, even if not on actions of official goverment command
It's not like jets never get shot down accidentally. Russia has done it a few times I think. There was that plane that accidentally flew over their territory.
Logic, rationality, and the complexity of the situation are the main criticisms against Trump. No one is arguing he was a good guy. It's the reactionary and simple minded manner in which Trump decided to assasinate him and bring our countries to the brink of all our war that's the problem. Assasinating a sovereign nation's general when we're not in a full war isn't the same as killing the leader of some terrorist group. Through in that it's starting to look more like the Trump admin was lying about how imminent the alleged future attack was, so it's even worse. Plus not informing Congress prior, and threatening to deliberately attack non-military targets, just makes Trump's decision wrong in every possible manner.
This thread must be full of NBA refs, they only see the retaliation.
You don't understand human nature.
I hope you were as sure of this when americans bombed hospitals by mistake.
It is kind of starting to sound like the airline is partially to blame, dude on CNN said warnings about the airspace started last Friday and other airlines were cancelling those flights. Iran still fucked up but. Just a cluster fuck all around. RIP
Stop trying to make a FULL HD RGB color situation black and white. This wouldn't have happened if we didn't escalate and raise tensions. You can't dispute that.
Why are you acting like these are two gang members that accidentally shot a pedestrian and not two actual COUNTRIES involved? Jesus.
It's Trump's fault there was a military conflict in the first place, and that there was retaliation.
It's Trump's fault that people capable of making a decision in Iran retaliated on a civilian plane? Like what kind of radar system does Iran have that they can't identify a slow moving passenger jet at 7000 feet?
No, we didn't. We had a deal where the US would withdraw some sanctions and in return the Iranians would stop seeking a nuclear weapon. The whole proxy war business with Iran funding and supplying Shia terrorists against American allies was specifically something that was cut out of the nuclear deal because the Obama administration prioritized nuclear nonproliferation over the much harder (and probably impossible) task of solving the Sunni-Shia conflict.
To be frank I feel it's you who is underselling the severity of this situation and the responsibility of the actors involved. People died senselessly because a conflict was escalated needlessly. You don't want anyone acribing any responsibility to Trump.
I plainly do not understand why. I already said the main responsibility falls on Iran.
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