U.S. officials systematically misled the public about the war in Afghanistan, according to internal documents obtained by The Washington Post

Oct 27, 2017
13,465
A confidential trove of government documents obtained by The Washington Post reveals that senior U.S. officials failed to tell the truth about the war in Afghanistan throughout the 18-year campaign, making rosy pronouncements they knew to be false and hiding unmistakable evidence the war had become unwinnable.

The documents were generated by a federal project examining the root failures of the longest armed conflict in U.S. history. They include more than 2,000 pages of previously unpublished notes of interviews with people who played a direct role in the war, from generals and diplomats to aid workers and Afghan officials.

The U.S. government tried to shield the identities of the vast majority of those interviewed for the project and conceal nearly all of their remarks. The Post won release of the documents under the Freedom of Information Act after a three-year legal battle.
In the interviews, more than 400 insiders offered unrestrained criticism of what went wrong in Afghanistan and how the United States became mired in nearly two decades of warfare.
With a bluntness rarely expressed in public, the interviews lay bare pent-up complaints, frustrations and confessions, along with second-guessing and backbiting.

“We were devoid of a fundamental understanding of Afghanistan — we didn’t know what we were doing,” Douglas Lute, a three-star Army general who served as the White House’s Afghan war czar during the Bush and Obama administrations, told government interviewers in 2015. He added: “What are we trying to do here? We didn’t have the foggiest notion of what we were undertaking.”

“If the American people knew the magnitude of this dysfunction . . . 2,400 lives lost,” Lute added, blaming the deaths of U.S. military personnel on bureaucratic breakdowns among Congress, the Pentagon and the State Department. “Who will say this was in vain?”

Since 2001, more than 775,000 U.S. troops have deployed to Afghanistan, many repeatedly. Of those, 2,300 died there and 20,589 were wounded in action, according to Defense Department figures.

The interviews, through an extensive array of voices, bring into sharp relief the core failings of the war that persist to this day. They underscore how three presidents — George W. Bush, Barack Obama and Donald Trump — and their military commanders have been unable to deliver on their promises to prevail in Afghanistan.
 

MasterYoshi

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Oct 27, 2017
6,798
6 trillion dollars (that's $6,000,000,000,000) on unnecessary and unwinnable wars, but let's keep sucking that military cock with funding, while slashing the essential shit like education or healthcare.
 

linkboy

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Oct 26, 2017
7,995
Of course they did, and they left a swath of damaged (and dead) people as a result (myself included).

The sooner this country pulls its head out of its ass, the better off we'll be.

I don't see it happening in my lifetime.
 

ZiZ

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Oct 27, 2017
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“If the American people knew the magnitude of this dysfunction . . . 2,400 lives lost,” Lute added, blaming the deaths of U.S. military personnel on bureaucratic breakdowns among Congress, the Pentagon and the State Department. “Who will say this was in vain?”
Only 2,400? that can't be ri... Oh, I forgot Afghan lives don't count.
 

trembli0s

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Oct 28, 2017
219
Another rebuke to the foreign policy and military establishment at the top.

These people just kept on peddling the same shit, regardless of party affiliation.
 

Apharmd

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Oct 25, 2017
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“We were devoid of a fundamental understanding of Afghanistan — we didn’t know what we were doing,” Douglas Lute, a three-star Army general who served as the White House’s Afghan war czar during the Bush and Obama administrations, told government interviewers in 2015. He added: “What are we trying to do here? We didn’t have the foggiest notion of what we were undertaking.”
This is why I was against the war in Afghanistan back in 2001. There never was an understanding of what the end goal was. It was purely based on the political pressure to do something to "avenge" the victims of 9-11.

Another rebuke to the foreign policy and military establishment at the top.

These people just kept on peddling the same shit, regardless of party affiliation.
The entire DC foreign policy community needs to go. The interests that they serve aren't that of world at large, or even the average American citizen.
 

Jegriva

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Sep 23, 2019
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This is why I was against the war in Afghanistan back in 2001. There never was an understanding of what the end goal was. It was purely based on the political pressure to do something to "avenge" the victims of 9-11.
Put Karzai in power? At least nominally?

(I am not disagreeing with you, by the way)
 

Hugare

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Aug 31, 2018
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"pretendstobeshocked.gif"

And I'm not even north american

You can't really say that it was all for nothing, tho.

The increase in terrorism is real and noticeable throughout the world due to this stupid conflict
 

Brakke

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Oct 27, 2017
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I’ve been reading through this today. It’s a pretty wild trove of documents, though nothing about it has been particularly surprising so far.

WaPo is pitching at as a new Pentagon Papers. It feels like a fair comparison on the scale of document disclosure and the effort in reporting it out, but I just can’t imagine it’ll move the needle on anything. The scale of Afghanistan to Americans just isn’t Vietnam.
 

Apharmd

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Oct 25, 2017
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Put Karzai in power? At least nominally?

(I am not disagreeing with you, by the way)
If that was the goal, then why didn't we leave after he was put into power under Bush? This is Afghanistan today:



We weren't able to put a government into place that could actually govern the country, lol. Which was the most obvious thing even in 2001. The Soviet-Afghan War should have been a teachable moment, but of course we didn't learn from the USSR's failings. Bush couldn't win the war. Obama couldn't win the war, and refused to do what should have been done, bringing the troops home. And now a third US president is failing on that front. It is very likely that, in 2021, we will have been in Afghanistan for two decades, under four American presidents, and for what? There's no path to victory, or even a clear understanding of what victory looks like there.

edit- I'd like to add that Trump increased troop levels in 2019! It's insanity.
 
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Sunster

The Fallen
Oct 5, 2018
6,771
why can't the american people who vote warhawks into power, put together that the "Great America" they yearn for was an America that was not at war and investing heavily in infrastructure and the sciences?
 

Mahonay

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Oct 25, 2017
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This particular line resonated with me;

“What did we get for this $1 trillion effort? Was it worth $1 trillion?”Jeffrey Eggers, a retired Navy SEAL and White House staffer for Bush and Obama, told government interviewers. He added, “After the killing of Osama bin Laden, I said that Osama was probably laughing in his watery grave considering how much we have spent on Afghanistan.”
 

Mahonay

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Only 2,400? that can't be ri... Oh, I forgot Afghan lives don't count.
Around 40,000 Afghan citizens reported killed, although I imagine that number is far higher.

For example, via Wikipedia
A report titled Body Count put together by Physicians for Social Responsibility, Physicians for Global Survival and the Nobel Peace Prize-winning International Physicians for the Prevention of Nuclear War (IPPNW) concluded that 106,000–170,000 civilians have been killed as a result of the fighting in Afghanistan at the hands of all parties to the conflict.
Americans will always turn a blind eye to the mass of innocent lives being destroyed by our military conflicts. Anything to shield themselves from reality so that they can keep “supporting the troops!”. Or, in a lot cases, they are just flat out racist and view any Middle Eastern or Arab person as a terrorist. They barely see them as human. It’s disgusting.
 
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Dec 25, 2018
2,452
ridiculous, only reason this shit goes on is because the US wants to wave its cock around and never accept defeat. They pulled the same tactic with Vietnam.
 

Deleted member 46489

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I don't understand this. How did Obama allow this colossal waste of financial and human resources (not to mention the deliberate fudging of metrics to make it seem like U.S. was winning the war)? That's just...villain behavior. It's evil. Was all of Obama's image a lie? Is he the gigantic asshole these facts suggest?
I mean, I get Bush and Trump doing this, but Obama's invovlement shocks me to my core. I thought of him as a good guy.
 

Kthulhu

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Oct 25, 2017
14,668
Maybe let's not make the same mistake and nominate someone who isn't gonna do stupid shit with the military.
 

Deleted member 46489

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How much of this was carried on by the Obama administration?
A LOT of it. Here's a para from the article-
A person identified only as a senior National Security Council official said there was constant pressure from the Obama White House and Pentagon to produce figures to show the troop surge of 2009 to 2011 was working, despite hard evidence to the contrary.


“It was impossible to create good metrics. We tried using troop numbers trained, violence levels, control of territory and none of it painted an accurate picture,” the senior NSC official told government interviewers in 2016. “The metrics were always manipulated for the duration of the war.”


Even when casualty counts and other figures looked bad, the senior NSC official said, the White House and Pentagon would spin them to the point of absurdity. Suicide bombings in Kabul were portrayed as a sign of the Taliban’s desperation, that the insurgents were too weak to engage in direct combat. Meanwhile, a rise in U.S. troop deaths was cited as proof that American forces were taking the fight to the enemy.
 

Sunster

The Fallen
Oct 5, 2018
6,771
ridiculous, only reason this shit goes on is because the US wants to wave its cock around and never accept defeat. They pulled the same tactic with Vietnam.
that's just what they tell voters to win reelection. the actual reason is money. wars cost the people money but give those who put people in power money.
 

Kthulhu

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Oct 25, 2017
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Mahonay

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I don't understand this. How did Obama allow this colossal waste of financial and human resources (not to mention the deliberate fudging of metrics to make it seem like U.S. was winning the war)? That's just...villain behavior. It's evil. Was all of Obama's image a lie? Is he the gigantic asshole these facts suggest?
I mean, I get Bush and Trump doing this, but Obama's invovlement shocks me to my core. I thought of him as a good guy.
Turns out it doesn’t really matter that much who’s in office when it comes to long conflicts like the Afghanistan War. The Military-industrial Complex is what actually has the control in this country.

We’ve yet to have a president that proves that wrong.
 

Kthulhu

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Oct 25, 2017
14,668
this country is so fucked
I'm being slightly hyperbolic, but that is how a decent amount of people feel.

Some people just really think we should be the world police and can do no wrong.

I think the majority of the country actually hates unjustified wars. That's why so many have been done on false pretenses.
 

Blader

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Oct 27, 2017
19,668
Turns out it doesn’t really matter that much who’s in office when it comes to long conflicts like the Afghanistan War. The Military-industrial Complex is what actually has the control in this country.

We’ve yet to have a president that proves that wrong.
It's not just a military-industrial complex issue though. Like with Vietnam, the longevity of the Afghanistan war is paradoxically is owed to its own longevity. Nobody wants to be the one to say we lost the war and the thousands of sons and daughters, husbands and wives, mothers and fathers who died along the way, all that amounted to nothing. It's a similar reason why even though the White House continues to stretch the 2001 AUMF way beyond its original intent in order to cover every possible Middle East conflict now, Congress will not pass a new one because no one wants to put their name down on another potential Iraq War vote.

I think part of the problem too is that Afghanistan had never been as unpopular as the Iraq War (remember Obama only called one of these the "stupid war") so the pressure to bring troops home from Afghanistan and end that conflict was never as great as it was for Iraq.
 
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Mahonay

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It's not just a military-industrial complex issue though. Like with Vietnam, the longevity of the Afghanistan war is paradoxically is owed to its own longevity. Nobody wants to be the one to say we lost the war and the thousands of sons and daughters, husbands and wives, mothers and fathers who died along the way, all that amounted to nothing. It's a similar reason why even though the White House continues to stretch the 2001 AUMF way beyond its original intent in order to cover every possible Middle East conflict now, Congress will not pass a new one because no one wants to put their name down on another potential Iraq War vote.

I think part of the problem too is that Afghanistan had never been as unpopular as the Iraq War (remember Obama only called one of these the "stupid war") so the pressure to bring troops home from Afghanistan and that conflict was never as great as for Iraq.
Absolutely. Kicking the can down the road was definitely a major factor. People more concerned with their political careers than saving lives.
 
Oct 26, 2017
4,841
I don't understand this. How did Obama allow this colossal waste of financial and human resources (not to mention the deliberate fudging of metrics to make it seem like U.S. was winning the war)? That's just...villain behavior. It's evil. Was all of Obama's image a lie? Is he the gigantic asshole these facts suggest?
I mean, I get Bush and Trump doing this, but Obama's invovlement shocks me to my core. I thought of him as a good guy.
You have a gross misunderstanding of the role of the president and how much power they wield.
 
Dec 25, 2018
2,452
It's not just a military-industrial complex issue though. Like with Vietnam, the longevity of the Afghanistan war is paradoxically is owed to its own longevity. Nobody wants to be the one to say we lost the war and the thousands of sons and daughters, husbands and wives, mothers and fathers who died along the way, all that amounted to nothing. It's a similar reason why even though the White House continues to stretch the 2001 AUMF way beyond its original intent in order to cover every possible Middle East conflict now, Congress will not pass a new one because no one wants to put their name down on another potential Iraq War vote.

I think part of the problem too is that Afghanistan had never been as unpopular as the Iraq War (remember Obama only called one of these the "stupid war") so the pressure to bring troops home from Afghanistan and end that conflict was never as great as it was for Iraq.
exactly, one of the biggest problems with Vietnam was how much it was being dragged out and the US didn't want to admit defeat over a worthless war. Unfortunately, we're stuck in the same situation as Vietnam today.
 

SchrodingerC

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Oct 25, 2017
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The Iraq and Afghanistan clusterfucks will go down as the most pointless ‘wars’ this country has caused. The amount of human lives and money wasted upon a throne of lies and greed really should’ve had Bush tried as a war criminal.
Cheney though... oh boy, there are numerous painful methods that should be inflicted on that garbage human.
 

Deleted member 46489

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You have a gross misunderstanding of the role of the president and how much power they wield.
Did you read the article? Obama white house would pressurize the officials to produce metrics that showed false progress. There's more in the article about Obama's specific responsibility on this issue. I think you are the one with a gross misunderstanding of this entire debacle.