Depends on what your measuring here. They have a market cap more than GM. But they are different companies, different lifecycles, and so on.
Definitely not on cars sold.
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Uh Tesla isn’t doing so hot all of a sudden
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Definitely not on cars sold.
My observation on this is if you're truly growing then headcount does matter. You need to scale your teams up in order to meet the growth of a company. Increasing headcount by 30% and then dropping it 7% (for full time, no idea on part time) doesn't look ideal when you admit to needing to 'work harder to get more out'.
They didn't prepare well for losing the subsidizes. Losing them is a huge deal.
Do not act like the hate is unjustified. Calling a rescue worker a pedo, his stance against unions, and other things he's done in the past make the hate absolutely justified.
I want him to fail. I want electric cars to succeed. I'd rather a vain egomaniac not be the person in charge of the success when in reality the engineers and other workers are the ones doing all the work.
Then that's, to me, a sign of poor leadership. It's exactly been my problem with their marketing around models and reliance on tax credits to show "savings".
I love Teslas and want one and I don't care about an older giant like Microsoft's standing so
I gave up my reservation when they never delivered the 35k car. I'd like one, but can't justify a huge payment.
They're still a relative new company, especially in their space. They are babies. I don't see investors turning their back on them anytime soon.
But you're right about their leadership. Elon is spread too thin honestly.
My take is that 2018 was a make or break year for them. They knew that if the plan of producing Model 3s at 5K/week failed, the company would probably collapse. So they went all in. Now with the production stabilized and (I suppose), systems and production processes getting leaner and more efficient, the cuts are necessary to improve margins. I don't think they'd lay off thousands and compromise their production output, especially now that they're releasing the Model 3 in Europe and right hand markets.
They're a 10 year old company being run by someone who oversees another company (Space X) and ran other companies as CEO (X, Paypal). C'mon...
I'm comparing to other automakers--GM and Ford. It's a huge space, which ridiculous vested incumbents. Those companies also got way more help from federal and governments in getting the conventional automobile adopted.
The fact that Tesla has been able to do what they do, along with their vertical integration and forgoing the dealership system, is rather impressive.
Yesterday I received a cold call from a Tesla rep trying to sell me on a car. Seems like they're actively reaching out to people who cancelled their reservations. I had cancelled my Model 3 Performance several months back due to unresponsive Tesla reps and dubious delivery date pushes.
not just forgoing it, they're fighting against it. There's states where they literally cannot deliver cars to. I saw a guy on autoline after hours say he had to drive from MI to cleveland ohio to pickup his car.
They can't sell their cars in Texas, technically. For Texas delivery you have to pay in full before they can ship the car out of California.
that is something they need to get better at. I had a quote from them for solar panels, but i think the dude that came out got laid off or something. The quote he had sent me was through a hotlink, which expired when i was ready to install solar.
that said ive seen several people take delivery of performance model 3's in a matter of days.
Listen Joker, if your post wasn't a criticism, then you can't summon a Super Demon Lord to defeat a god.
This is not Elon's first trip around the 'running a company' bloc.
And if he is much as a micromanager has the stories say he is, this all rests on him not being prepared.
It's not like the government just springed the end date for the subsidies on Tesla at the lasr minute.
They knew their timetable for them for a long time.
I don't think that was ever said, not to mention the auto industry lobbyists have made it so Tesla's can't even be sold directly to consumers in most states (because it would give them an unfair advantage against dealers)
Yes Musk CLEARLY should have anticipated Trump being elected and accounted for his erratic behavior that surprises even his own staff
Uh they still new the end date well in advanced. analysts, investors and etc have all been talking about the end of the subsidizes for ages.
Probably the least surprising news in a while. More surprising was the the share price bumping almost up to $350 before this. Quoting myself from January 4th:
The writing was on the wall. They likely didn't amortize their energy credits evenly, so Q3 looked artificially stronger than it was in reality. Musk was obsessed with short term profitability, because Tesla needs the stock price above $360 a share March 1st, 2019 as that would let them pay off some of their debt coming due in stock. That's also likely why he committed fraud and lied about having funding secured to go private. The easiest way to do this was to make one quarter look amazing, then dump money into China so all the underlying problems are more difficult for investors to sort out.
Tesla likely needs tariffs to disappear to feel less pressure. At any rate, it's looking increasingly like the stock price is not warranted because the growth just isn't there. Any growth will likely be from China, not the US.
The writing was on the wall. They likely didn't amortize their energy credits evenly, so Q3 looked artificially stronger than it was in reality. Musk was obsessed with short term profitability, because Tesla needs the stock price above $360 a share March 1st, 2019 as that would let them pay off some of their debt coming due in stock. That's also likely why he committed fraud and lied about having funding secured to go private. The easiest way to do this was to make one quarter look amazing, then dump money into China so all the underlying problems are more difficult for investors to sort out.
Tesla likely needs tariffs to disappear to feel less pressure. At any rate, it's looking increasingly like the stock price is not warranted because the growth just isn't there. Any growth will likely be from China, not the US.
solar credits were extended for another 2 or 3 years and added a much more gradual decline than the EV credit is. its entirely possible that the EV credits would have been extended.
To be fair though, Tesla funding lives and dies by the stock market. It's only the past quarter that they managed to have a profit because of the amount of junk bonds they have to service. And that's disregarding all of the stock dilution they had to do in the past.
I personally would challenge the assertion that the number of cars sold is the right metric for a company like Tesla. The real metric should be the amount of liabilities they have on their books.
They've always had an immensely tough sell. From the get go they had to be very different from their competitors while also jumping right into producing high-end luxury cars that compete with manufacturers who have been doing so for decades. I'd say they've been immensely successful given the circumstances.
While I do acknowledge Tesla role in increasing the interest of the general public towards EV, their survival is no longer important to EVs. Hyundai group and Volkswagen group are the ones now that are leading the accessibility of EV and not Tesla. VW will build a car that cost below 30k, and will go on longer range then the model 3 and they also look really cool. The Hyundai Kona EV is already doing impressive feat below 40k.
I can't be alone in thinking this is basic accounting right? You shouldn't base forecasts on something that is a decelerating perk, they knew the credits would be changing and running out.
It's reminding me of the Mets owner/old gm who purposely back loaded contracts because he expected the overall wealth of the team to rise because of his investments with Madoff.
Sad how the thread about an Activision CEO getting millions in bonuses is a huge shit fest, Tesla laying off 7% of its workforce is somehow okay. Capitalism seems only bad when it fits peoples agenda.
High-end luxury ... yeah no. Not with that basic ass interior.
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Even if they fail it is amazing how he made electric cars viable.
That market looks here to stay regardless of who is making them.
Those cars don't have anything like a Supercharger network and they still charge at 59% speed of a Tesla.
Those cars are either 2 years away or in limited availability too.
It's not just that Musk is an asshole, his assholishness has been reported to affect the performance of the company and of its employees. They can't have it both Musk's drive for progress be a positive influence and his common outbursts, antagonistic management of people, negative public statements, and disregard for the life of his coworkers not be equally if not more of a negative influence. Tesla is perhaps the prime example of a company that dies more than lives by its leading man.
FYI for people, profit is a great headline number, but you want to look at cash flow more than anything - that gives you the beat figure to evaluate a firms value and ability's to pay off obligations.
Second, and I could be wrong as I don't follow Tesla specifically, but Tesla has a couple of issues, no? It has large amounts of debt and I think historically has had volatile cash flows, which is the opposite of what you want. Second, it's supposed to make large investments in China, but I don't believe it's forecast required CapEx for that yet? 3rd, I think it's had issues raising capital with the recent investigations and (as far as I know) it's still under criminal investigation after the SEC one settled correct?
I really like what Tesla's trying to do, but there have been and aren't legitimate worries. Even before this 7% number, it's had high turnover of managers and Musk was the Chairman and CEO, which is bad for any company and it's controls.
Second, and I could be wrong as I don't follow Tesla specifically, but Tesla has a couple of issues, no? It has large amounts of debt and I think historically has had volatile cash flows, which is the opposite of what you want. Second, it's supposed to make large investments in China, but I don't believe it's forecast required CapEx for that yet? 3rd, I think it's had issues raising capital with the recent investigations and (as far as I know) it's still under criminal investigation after the SEC one settled correct?
I really like what Tesla's trying to do, but there have been and aren't legitimate worries. Even before this 7% number, it's had high turnover of managers and Musk was the Chairman and CEO, which is bad for any company and it's controls.
Whatever fans want to tell you, they are far away from these two, like really far regarding luxury.
no shit? who woulda thunk.
just saying that it could have, and likely should have happened. We still subsidize fucking coal, why not EVs?
my model 3 seats are more comfortable than my moms bmw 3 series.
False. You should look up VW investment in their own charging network. Unlike Tesla, they will also share their technology with other manufacturers like Ford. Which will benefit the state of EV vehicles more then Tesla supercharger network could ever do.
At least your mom can control the air conditioning on the rear seats ;)
false. https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/tesla-elon-musk-open-supercharger-network/
they also opened up all their patents for others to use.
I don't think anyone but a blind loyalist would argue that Tesla's fit and finish is anywhere near a luxury brand. Your seats aside, it's not a controversial take that they are subpar for their price range.
There is also all the instances of bumpers and trims all falling off in the rain.
Like that's some luxury.
To be fair though, Tesla funding lives and dies by the stock market. It's only the past quarter that they managed to have a profit because of the amount of junk bonds they have to service. And that's disregarding all of the stock dilution they had to do in the past.
I personally would challenge the assertion that the number of cars sold is the right metric for a company like Tesla. The real metric should be the amount of liabilities they have on their books.
I think my post was eaten up by server issues earlier but I share similar sentiments. They spent years on R&D and they still have issues with Model 3 manufacturing. It's astounding.
A part of it was due to Elon's hubris in trying to get a fully automated plant. Or not being focused on the right things.
Edit: oh weird, there it is?
I know all about Electrify America. I'm in Canada but all the ones in upper New York State near the border are all under construction. I think they're a year or two away from coming close to Superchargers in overall amount but I'll certainly use them.
And the Kona only charges at 70kW tops, Tesla is still tops when it comes to speed.