UK coronavirus discussion. “Stay at home. Protect the NHS. Save lives.”

Rodelero

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,555
The drop off in deaths is really encouraging and hugely surprising when you look at what has been going on in Spain and Italy. Hopefully it isn't a blip.
 

Puroresu_kid

Member
Oct 28, 2017
5,199
We'd likely need volunteers regardless of what's gone on before - having 1.5 million people suddenly reliant on other people for 3 months isn't something you can easily plan for...

In an ideal world they should be paid. But having half a million people volunteer to do it is also a fantastic gesture and something that is rightly being applauded/celebrated - that's pretty ideal too.

And don't forget that it's not just the logistical side of it, but also the phonecalls/ensuring people don't feel too isolated.

Seems like creating an atmosphere of fear and hatred for foreign hospital staff wasn't wise. The amount of EU nurses and doctors lost because of brexit is criminal.
 

Ravensmash

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,966
Seems like creating an atmosphere of fear and hatred for foreign hospital staff wasn't wise. The amount of EU nurses and doctors lost because of brexit is criminal.
Oh, completely agree - we need more doctors, we need more nurses, and we need more staff in the sector altogether.

A global pandemic occurring, coupled with an enforced lockdown that results in people being shielded for 12 weeks is always going to throw up challenges in any social care system though.

I'm looking for positives during all this (hah!), so I'm just thankful that so many people are clearly caring, and eager to help their vulnerable neighbours.
 

bawjaws

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,562
The drop off in deaths is really encouraging and hugely surprising when you look at what has been going on in Spain and Italy. Hopefully it isn't a blip.
28 deaths in England (population 56million) and 13 in the rest of the UK (population 12million)? Reckon that's an outlier rather than anything else.

Day-to-day comparison of numbers isn't really particularly helpful imho, we need to look at trends over a longer timeframe.

Edit: total population of NI, Wales & Scotland is actually closer to 10m than 12m.
 
Mar 7, 2020
138
Are UK actually doing alright at this? If those numbers are correct thats a big drop on yesterday when you would expect a rise.

This and the testing news earlier is a bit of good news in a shite time.
 

Jam_Sandwich

Member
Oct 30, 2017
926
Isle of Man here
Closes all movement of people in and our of our island.

Essential shops only
Social distancing measures put in place most shops
A LOT of small shops and butchers have set up home delivery service for food. (so even less people have to go out)
Once a day exercise only
Fingers crossed it's enough for our small island!
 

Ravensmash

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,966
Are UK actually doing alright at this? If those numbers are correct thats a big drop on yesterday when you would expect a rise.

This and the testing news earlier is a bit of good news in a shite time.
It's difficult to say on a day by day basis, because it could easily jump up significantly again tomorrow.

I guess there's a slight hope if the rest of the week's numbers remain somewhat level.

Edit: Also important to see how many people are being tested. If it's a similar number/more than yesterday, then that's also positive - but if the daily case numbers have gone up marginally but less have been tested...

But yeah, it'll be clearer in a couple of days hopefully.
 

Mackenzie

Member
Apr 21, 2019
158
Brighton
Are UK actually doing alright at this? If those numbers are correct thats a big drop on yesterday when you would expect a rise.

This and the testing news earlier is a bit of good news in a shite time.
Don't take those tests for granted. They may not even be rolled out:

Whitty says these tests need to be evaluated. Whether they get rolled out will depend on that, he says.
Vallance says these tests could help stop the transmission of the virus.


Whitty says in the long run the antibody test will be very important. But in the short term the antigen test is more important, he says.
 

Deaf Spacker

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,204
United Kingdom
Seems to be the case. Sky News are saying that NHS England have confirmed 28 deaths, plus deaths confirmed in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland and it tallies up with the overall amount for the UK.
Have the figures been published by NHS England? I follow the Department of Health on Twitter and they've released the figures so far for every day prior to today.
 

Shogun

Member
Oct 27, 2017
941
The drop off in deaths is really encouraging and hugely surprising when you look at what has been going on in Spain and Italy. Hopefully it isn't a blip.
Having spent a fair bit of my child hood in Spain one massive difference between both the UK and Spain was always how socially active the elderly population was of an evening. Dressing up in their best clothes to meet friends, gather at bars and restaurants or even for strolls around the town and this went on most night of the week. We don't really have that in the UK as much so I'm wondering is Italy the same as Spain when it comes to night time socialising?
 

Rodelero

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,555
Having spent a fair bit of my child hood in Spain one massive difference between both the UK and Spain was always how socially active the elderly population was of an evening. Dressing up in their best clothes to meet friends, gather at bars and restaurants or even for strolls around the town and this went on most night of the week. We don't really have that in the UK as much so I'm wondering is Italy the same as Spain when it comes to night time socialising?
Similar, yes, though I'd say a fair number of oldies in the UK end up in pubs or playing bridge of an evening.
 

Git

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,373
You really think that if they hadn't made any cuts there would be 250'000 nurses available to go about delivering food for vulnerable people in the community?
Why do nurses have to go delivering food. There's a lot more to NHS staff than frontline, you know. But speaking as one of many ex-NHS frontline staff whose entire ward was sold off by the tories, yes asking people to volunteer is taking the piss.
 

Noodle

Member
Aug 22, 2018
2,072
My mum was told of a story of a friend of a friend who claims to have been fined £30 for being outside 3 times and the police knew by tracking her movements via her phone. That has to be BS surely?
So you know a person who knew a person who knew a person who knew a person that was tracked and fined for going outside too much?
 

jem

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,182
Why do nurses have to go delivering food. There's a lot more to NHS staff than frontline, you know. But speaking as one of many ex-NHS frontline staff whose entire ward was sold off by the tories, yes asking people to volunteer is taking the piss.
Exactly, nurses don't deliver food, that's why they're asking for volunteers.
 

shaneo632

Member
Oct 29, 2017
14,685
Essex, UK
Skeptical that this is indicative of a wider drop off but keeping me fingers crossed.

Also feel a bit weird about "28 in England" trending while ignoring the other deaths in the rest of the UK.
 

TheZjman

Member
Nov 22, 2018
782
Wife got out on 80% salary today from work. No top up of the 20%. Won’t hurt us too much unless this goes on for months but hard to take. Felt like a redundancy but I am glad these scheme is in place.

we are not going out because I am high risk but getting food and pet supplies is a real problem. I just don’t see how they will ease the online delivery problem? We don’t have any slots in any of our supermarkets and they go right up until the middle of April.
 

gerg

Member
Oct 25, 2017
252
Didn't Italy have the same where a few days before it really got bad there was one or two days where relatively few people died?

Not to piss on peoples chips but i don't think it's really indicative of anything, hope i'm wrong obviously.
From looking at the FT graph (https://www.ft.com/coronavirus-latest), that might indeed have been the case. The only way to tell is to see where things go tomorrow, and in the days after.
 

Psychotext

Member
Oct 30, 2017
5,378
So my thick as pig shit father in law decided today was a great day to go on an outing with another bunch of oldies. You know, aside from it making my missus sad, I wouldn't shed a single fucking tear if he got it and it ended up killing him.
 

Biggzy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
220
From looking at the FT graph (https://www.ft.com/coronavirus-latest), that might indeed have been the case. The only way to tell is to see where things go tomorrow, and in the days after.
It's important to not get too caught up with daily figures and whether the increase was small or large but to look at the general trend. As you said, we need to see what the figures are over the next couple of days to see what the trend is.
 

jem

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,182
They aren't volunteering to be nurses, and yes they should be paid. At the end of the day it's the Tories being the scum that they are.
The fact that they aren't volunteering to be nurses is the point I'm making.

And why exactly do they need to be paid? People volunteer to help the vulnerable all the time through charity work etc.

People want to help, why not let them and put the money into use elsewhere?
Again you're ignoring that the NHS staff hemorrhaging has been more than just nurses.
I'm not ignoring anything - I'm saying it is an irrelevant point which has nothing to do with the fantastic story that almost half a million people have come out to help our most vulnerable.

I should add, I didn't call you out because you were shitting on the Tories - I don't give a shit about that, I have no love for them at all.

I called you out because you took one of the few positive stories we've had come out of this crisis and you twisted it into another negative. Constant, toxic negativity is not what the world needs right now.
 

Azraes

Member
Oct 28, 2017
696
London
This is so important. I'm convinced that there will be studies showing in a few months that death counts correlate not only with factors like hospital capacity and quality of the healthcare system but also with factors like different information degrees in the public.
It will be harder to calculate but yes there will be a correlation as depending on what the source of information a person/group trusts that will reflect their action and will in turn affect the rate of spread. This of course will depend on the government measures at the time as well as the nature of the government.
 

Ravensmash

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,966
The fact that they aren't volunteering to be nurses is the point I'm making.

And why exactly do they need to be paid? People volunteer to help the vulnerable all the time through charity work etc.

People want to help, why not let them and put the money into use elsewhere?

I'm not ignoring anything - I'm saying it is an irrelevant point which has nothing to do with the fantastic story that almost half a million people have come out to help our most vulnerable.

I should add, I didn't call you out because you were shitting on the Tories - I don't give a shit about that, I have no love for them at all.

I called you out because you took one of the few positive stories we've had come out of this crisis and you twisted it into another negative. Constant, toxic negativity is not what the world needs right now.
Amen.

Plenty of time for us to discuss this once this is all over with. As it is, we’re in this crisis and it’s fantastic that so many people are willing to help at short notice.

Was a brief piece on BBC news tonight which showed one volunteer who was self-isolating himself, but wanted to help people who might be feeling lonely.

Also, if this brings more people together on a community level then that’s fantastic and may well be another positive of this whole situation.
 

Tygre

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,231
Chesire, UK
Daily data is noisy. It will swing up and down around a true long-term average trend.

Death data is noisy because it requires family sign off to be released.

Confirmed case data is noisy because it depends on effective testing.

Hospitalisation figures can be noisy because shit totally unrelated to Covid-19 can still cause hospitalisations.


Paying attention to day-by-day figures is a fool's errand.
 
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pswii60

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,888
UK
They aren't volunteering to be nurses, and yes they should be paid. At the end of the day it's the Tories being the scum that they are.
Many of them are already technically being paid by the government. 80% of their wage whilst they cannot do their day job. So for those without childcare responsibilities, rather than sit on their arses waiting for the hospitality and leisure shutdown to end, surely it's a good thing that so many are coming forward to volunteer to help during this crisis.

And by the way, we're talking about all our money here. When the government spends money, it's tax payers money they're spending. The country is going to be in enough debt as it is after this crisis ends, I don't want those debts to pile up even higher by paying 250,000+ people to do something that they are willing to volunteer to do, never mind the admin costs involved in paying that many people too. This is a once in a lifetime crisis, something many of us never thought we'd see in our lifetime, and something the entire world is struggling to come to terms with. We all need to be realistic here.
 
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CampFreddie

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,316
Today's numbers are good, but it needs to be repeated for a few more days before it becomes a trend.
What's better news is that over the last week or so, the exponential growth rate of new cases has dropped more-or-less everywhere (except America, but that's probably because New York only just started mass testing). We aren't out of the woods yet, but things are improving. The question is whether they improve fast enough for active critical case numbers to plateau before the health services get overrun.

Also, I think the volunteering is good. These people aren't a cheap scam to replace NHS staff. I just hope they can be well-coordinated with the real healthcare workers.
The government deserves a lot of hate for underfunding the NHS and for allowing Brexit to fuck our recruitment and make good staff leave - but that's a separate issue from volunteers in a national emergency.
 

Mackenzie

Member
Apr 21, 2019
158
Brighton
yo, old scottish socialist here. i hate a Tory more than anyone, but I am not going to let that stop me trying to help vulnerable people right now just for political purity. fuck that nonsense, leave it for later.
 

Doby

Member
Oct 25, 2017
225
Everyone is on it when it comes to getting grocery delivery slots. I was all ready at midnight to get a slot for Wednesday 15th April, on the slots page, all I had to do was refresh.... and NOTHING. All gone within seconds.
 

LewieP

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
10,841
yo, old scottish socialist here. i hate a Tory more than anyone, but I am not going to let that stop me trying to help vulnerable people right now just for political purity. fuck that nonsense, leave it for later.
I will probably volunteer in my spare time when I have recovered and am not contagious, I am working 9-5 from home, but I would really like it if the government paid NHS staff extra for the time I donate. They should add up all the volunteer hours, work out that at minimum wage rate, and split it among NHS workers as a bonus.
 

Mavis

Member
Oct 25, 2017
777
Blue Mountains
its not supposed to track anyone, that time is long gone

it will be very useful in these ways

1) finding out the proportion of the population who have had this and were symptom free

2) allowing these people to get to work

the second is essential for nhs staff and key workers, as they will probably get it but cannot permanently stay in lockdown

you have had a jump in logic to suggest the government want to lift the lockdown
The problem is it's an antibody test. Antibodies are not instantly created upon infection, it can take a couple of weeks in certain circumstances so it's possible clear people are still infected. The reinfection rate isn't known but like certain Corona strains of the common cold it's possible, however improbable that the antibody effectiveness is short lived and reinfection can occur quickly. Until we know these things for sure this test only serves to gain data on numbers, it's dangerous if used to get people back to work.
 

Kareha

Member
Jun 15, 2018
1,247
United Kingdom
And why exactly do they need to be paid? People volunteer to help the vulnerable all the time through charity work etc.
They should be paid due to the fact there is the possibility they could be infected. Yes, people do volunteer all the time to help the vulnerable, but this time it involves a killer virus doing the rounds. The least they can get is danger money.
 

Garfield

Member
Oct 31, 2018
1,894
We are fucked as a country unless we get back out there soon, stories of people in the queue for benefits at 100,000 on the phone
 

jem

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,182
Some more good news:
The government has ordered 10,000 ventilators from Dyson to help deal with the coronavirus crisis.

The firm, headed by British inventor Sir James Dyson, said it had designed a new type of ventilator in response to a call on behalf of the NHS.

The order is still subject to the devices passing stringent medical tests but that is expected to happen quickly.

Dyson has had hundreds of engineers working round the clock to design the ventilators from scratch.