UK coronavirus discussion. “Stay at home. Protect the NHS. Save lives.”

Jiminy

Avenger
Mar 29, 2018
4,799
Yeah, I wanted to go to the local store as it opens earlier than the big stores (At 7am) and I initially made a good choice to go when I did, but it suddenly filled up with people when I was at the back of the shop grabbing milk and there was literally no possible way I could get around them as I was boxed in. To be fair on everyone they weren't coughing, being pushy and were wearing gloves and masks so that helps.
Ugh, nightmare situ. Like something out of a black comedy.

VERY fortunate they were taking precautions, though. The only good independent store near me regularly has groups of people hanging right outside the door - no masks, standing shoulder to shoulder, etc... horror
I'll stick to the larger stores in the future, that's if I'm not dead or hospitalised by then.
Stay calm, you'll be fine :)

A lot of people think this will be over after the Easter holidays by the way. Apparently the fact exams were cancelled and we were told things were off "for the forseeable future" isn't resonating with them.
I'm glad that numbers are calming somewhat in various countries, but also the virus still exists in the world and no matter what we do in the next 2 weeks it will keep cropping up, spiking and causing issues for the next 1-2 years, until a vaccine is widespread and "herd immunity" can indeed actually begin happening.
Every time I go to M&S, the crunchy peanut butter is gone but there's loads of smooth. What's all that about?
Crunchy creates this energy:
 

Fatoy

Member
Mar 13, 2019
2,138
Haven't got the foggiest mate. We've certainly been prepped as if September is the next time we'll be back to "normal", but who knows.

To be honest if the world is safe enough for kids to go back in July/August, they'd have a hell of an uproar from the unions if they tried to start school then, probably from parents who are trying to get a holiday in too. September is the safest bet.
Yeah. Sorry if I sounded like I was expecting you to magically know the answer. I was more thinking out loud, I suppose.

I hadn't even considered teachers' unions. Running school in the holidays would be tantamount to depriving teachers of one of the few perks of their jobs, so I can see why it'd be an unpalatable thing to propose.

As for holidays, we've still got flights booked in July, but that's only because I'm waiting for a strong enough "no international travel" proclamation from the government that will guarantee me a refund rather than just kicking the date down the road a month or two.
 

Honolulu Blue

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,134
A lot of people think this will be over after the Easter holidays by the way. Apparently the fact exams were cancelled and we were told things were off "for the forseeable future" isn't resonating with them.
I think in general days are very much up and down for everybody at the moment, and it's easy to fall into a trap of thinking things are going OK.

Yesterday for example felt like a positive day (at least locally to the UK). The death figures were lower, we had some talk around the tests and news about ventilator production etc. Today might be a shithouse again. We just don't know.

Personally I think talk of things being back to normal by Easter is delusional, but my own experience is that the day-by-day of this thing is extremely variable on where it feels like the trends and mood are. It would obviously be extremely dangerous for people to assume everything was fine based on short term results though so that needs to be avoided, and the continued severity hammering home.
 

phonicjoy

Member
Jun 19, 2018
2,439
Yeah, specialist manufacturing tends to be slow because it's specialised and therefore high-speed, high-volume isn't usually required. Normally I'd be inclined to say that this is a sly government back-hander to Dyson, but in this case it's more likely to be that they could scale faster than the specialists could.
I cant see anyone other than existing companies making ventilators.

There is a reason these products are heavily regulated, and unless those rules are revoked they wouldn't be allowed to produce them.
 

Box

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
5,046
Lancashire
Holy shit my local shop had nothing in it this morning lmao. Walked for my exercise and ended up out for an hour hunting for milk. Wild times. Pleasant out though. I just know it's gonna rain like fuck when we're all allowed to play out again.
 

jem

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,182
I cant see anyone other than existing companies making ventilators.

There is a reason these products are heavily regulated, and unless those rules are revoked they wouldn't be allowed to produce them.
Dyson is literally in the process of approving their ventilator.

They're expecting to start getting them out there in a few weeks.
 

Aprikurt

Member
Oct 29, 2017
6,598
I'm venturing to "big Tesco" this evening, but by evening I mean 9pm. And only to get alcohol for cocktails. I know my priorities man.

EGGS WOULD BE NICE. I HAVEN'T SEEN AN EGG IN TWO WEEKS.
The poor choice is always peanut butter, period. That stuff is the Devil's taint.
You're the devil's taint.

Yeah. Sorry if I sounded like I was expecting you to magically know the answer. I was more thinking out loud, I suppose.

I hadn't even considered teachers' unions. Running school in the holidays would be tantamount to depriving teachers of one of the few perks of their jobs, so I can see why it'd be an unpalatable thing to propose.

As for holidays, we've still got flights booked in July, but that's only because I'm waiting for a strong enough "no international travel" proclamation from the government that will guarantee me a refund rather than just kicking the date down the road a month or two.
No you didn't at all! it's a natural assumption that as professionals we'd know more, but we got given no info or forewarning. We found out about the school closure's exactly the same time as everybody else and had to scramble to accomodate.
 
Jun 24, 2019
404
And she wasn't.

We will have many more of these stories before this is all over, but we can't go handwringing over every one. The NHS is not blessed with foresight as to who will die, it is blessed only with statistics and the knowledge of local capacity to set what priorities it best can.

Yes it sucks, but this is the nature of the pandemic we are faced with.
Not blaming the NHS but the paramedics who seen her.

I understand it's overwhelming in the crisis we are facing but this kind of negligence will cost lives.

She shown serious symptoms of covid-19 why did they dismiss her case?
 

phonicjoy

Member
Jun 19, 2018
2,439
Dyson is literally in the process of approving their ventilator.

They're expecting to start getting them out there in a few weeks.
Thats not how that works. Certification is done by a notified body of which there is 1 in the UK. I could see them getting preferential treatment but these processes normally take months-years, and due to Brexit Notified bodies have been run over with applications. I hope something has been arranged, but it seems inefficient.
 

PJV3

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,237
London
Not blaming the NHS but the paramedics who seen her.

I understand it's overwhelming in the crisis we are facing but this kind of negligence will cost lives.

She shown serious symptoms of covid-19 why did they dismiss her case?
It's terrible that 3 kids have lost their mum, you would think that would push you up the priority list in some way. I don't think "it sucks" is an adequate way to describe the situation really, even if I agree that the NHS isn't going to always get it right.
 

WillJoe

Member
Nov 14, 2018
2,218
well so much for shielding for 12 weeks. that's not happening anymore. you'd think at times like this it'd be enough to explain your health issues or at the very most show your employer proof if they didn't already have it on record (mine do). still need to fill in paperwork and go for monthly meetings. 1. my doctor isn't giving out sick notes just told to "discuss it with your employer" but they want a sick note every month. 2. they want "back to work" meetings every month too....how am i meant to go for meetings if i'm trying to stay inside?

just told them i'll be back next week. lets hope i don't catch this...

i might as well go out now to the shops since i'm not shielding. that's a joke too. still a huge queue outside tesco with people all up each others arses leaving no space.
 

Azraes

Member
Oct 28, 2017
695
London
Thats not how that works. Certification is done by a notified body of which there is 1 in the UK. I could see them getting preferential treatment but these processes normally take months-years, and due to Brexit Notified bodies have been run over with applications. I hope something has been arranged, but it seems inefficient.
This is a different case. The government issued a request to manufacturers for ventilators to match these specifications. 30000 are required. Dyson are one group that have been working on it and have been awarded the contract to build 10k based on their patent which matches these specs. The Airbus consortium is now working on existing models which will also focus on these specs and are also expected to be awarded 10-15k. This is different from the usual scenario.
 

bryanee

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,812
Is there any way to report none essential places of work staying open and forcing workers to go in? My moms work has sent all office staff home but have told the warehouse workers they have to stay and if there are no orders then they can clean.
 

Koukalaka

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,203
Scotland
Holy shit my local shop had nothing in it this morning lmao. Walked for my exercise and ended up out for an hour hunting for milk. Wild times. Pleasant out though. I just know it's gonna rain like fuck when we're all allowed to play out again.
I'm going to head out to the shops today or tomorrow for the first time in a week - I've heard mixed things about them being less busy/better stocked than before, so fingers crossed.
 

LewieP

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
10,841
well so much for shielding for 12 weeks. that's not happening anymore. you'd think at times like this it'd be enough to explain your health issues or at the very most show your employer proof if they didn't already have it on record (mine do). still need to fill in paperwork and go for monthly meetings. 1. my doctor isn't giving out sick notes just told to "discuss it with your employer" but they want a sick note every month. 2. they want "back to work" meetings every month too....how am i meant to go for meetings if i'm trying to stay inside?

just told them i'll be back next week. lets hope i don't catch this...
Was speaking to a relative that works in HR, and they are honouring all requests for 12 weeks, but they told me that it is a logistical nightmare because outside of age, they don't keep any records on most people's reasons for needing that time off. They are just believing people when they say they are in an at risk group, and are going to deal with paperwork for it after the fact where necessary. Usually for organising time off like this they have lots of automated systems in place, but this is kind of unprecedented, and so it's a bit of a headache to deal with the logistics of it.

Hope everything works out for you.

Is there any way to report none essential places of work staying open and forcing workers to go in? My moms work has sent all office staff home but have told the warehouse workers they have to stay and if there are no orders then they can clean.
 

Teddy

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,168
Do you have any reason to doubt the claim particularly beyond the newspaper it's reported in? I'm not saying I know anything, but essentially saying 'fake news' because the Times leans Tory isn't much of a reason.
The Times more than leans Tory. Dominic Cummings has been using the press to gauge public reaction to policies before being officially announced.

I don’t have any proof but I’m not going to trust the Times as a source for the NHS comment.

They are opening temporary hospitals in conference centres across the country, and industry is currently gearing up to manufacture ventilators at scale.

I'm not saying I agree with the prediction that the death toll will fall beneath that 20k threshold (it probably won't) but both of the things you say need to happen are happening to some degree.
Hospital beds aren’t really the issue it’s the ICUs that are in short supply. Opening up additional hospital beds I’m not sure will have that great of an affect (although any will be help).

The additional ventilators will definitely help, we just need them as soon as possible.

20K was considered low when it was announced, thankfully we’ve entered lockdown since so that will help most of all.
 

adz2ka

Member
Nov 1, 2017
581
I work for a PR agency and one of our clients are still sending select employees into work as it is essential work (building safety, fire safety etc) and it's safe to say there are a lot of unhappy people across social media. It's a difficult position for them as one particular area of their business is a fundamental priority for health and safety.
 

WillJoe

Member
Nov 14, 2018
2,218
Is there any way to report none essential places of work staying open and forcing workers to go in? My moms work has sent all office staff home but have told the warehouse workers they have to stay and if there are no orders then they can clean.
i'd have thought just contact your council. if not then try citizen's advice or maybe police.
 
Jun 24, 2019
404
It's terrible that 3 kids have lost their mum, you would think that would push you up the priority list in some way. I don't think "it sucks" is an adequate way to describe the situation really, even if I agree that the NHS isn't going to always get it right.
It is tragic and she isn't going to be the only one. I can't help to think that implicit bias may have been the result of her death.
 

WillJoe

Member
Nov 14, 2018
2,218
Was speaking to a relative that works in HR, and they are honouring all requests for 12 weeks, but they told me that it is a logistical nightmare because outside of age, they don't keep any records on most people's reasons for needing that time off. They are just believing people when they say they are in an at risk group, and are going to deal with paperwork for it after the fact where necessary. Usually for organising time off like this they have lots of automated systems in place, but this is kind of unprecedented, and so it's a bit of a headache to deal with the logistics of it.

Hope everything works out for you.


yeah, i've just been stressed out trying to deal with them and thought fuck it i'll just go back to work.

i know you were replying to someone else with that link but thanks for sharing. going to have a read. it'll be good to know what businesses to avoid.
 

Box

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
5,046
Lancashire
I'm going to head out to the shops today or tomorrow for the first time in a week - I've heard mixed things about them being less busy/better stocked than before, so fingers crossed.
Yeah this is my local co-op and Spar was the same (milk-wise) ended up at a little Tesco.
E: I now know what time the deliveries come in at all three shops :D

Quick aside about the things people buy. I saw the post on Reddit where even though the shelves were empty of bread the Hovis loafs with the Union flag on them were untouched. really made me laugh, and yesterday, in the heart of Lancashire, I grabbed the last box of PG Tips from a shelf devoid of tea except for... You guessed it, Lancashire tea hahaha
 

LewieP

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
10,841
yeah, i've just been stressed out trying to deal with them and thought fuck it i'll just go back to work.

i know you were replying to someone else with that link but thanks for sharing. going to have a read. it'll be good to know what businesses to avoid.
Hope you find a solution.

I know my first pint when it reopens to the public is going to be at the Hotel Football bar.
 

Mist

Love & Respect
Administrator
Oct 25, 2017
3,324
It's terrible that 3 kids have lost their mum, you would think that would push you up the priority list in some way. I don't think "it sucks" is an adequate way to describe the situation really, even if I agree that the NHS isn't going to always get it right.
That's what confuses me, since she apparently had trouble breathing.

It is tragic and she isn't going to be the only one. I can't help to think that implicit bias may have been the result of her death.
Black women in particular do face this kind of discrimination, so I wondered the same thing.

It's tragic news, regardless. I can't view any of these people as statistics. They are human beings with families, loved ones and lives that they wanted to live.
 

Ravensmash

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,966
Article in The Times saying the NHS should actually cope now according to one expert, and he thinks the fatality figure will be way below 20,000.

Can't read it as it's behind a pay wall but fingers crossed.
Didn't Whitty himself say as much during the briefing yesterday? That the NHS can probably cope with a surge, although it's obviously going to be tight.
 

D_Reynholm

Member
Mar 18, 2020
4
Aye, I mean, I am no medic, but what dictates how severely one gets this other than age and pre-existing conditions? Why would it apparantly randomly and rarely severely hit someone in a demographic that is otherwise largely safe from the worst outcomes?
It seems there are a few factors, this came up yesterday as 3 people now died who seemed "low risk" in / from the UK (this poor girl, the mother of 3 and the Hungarian Deputy Ambassador). News outlets ran them with various degrees of detail, but none have been 100% confirmed as being "no underlying conditions" nor that the virus 100% killed them. 3 in less than a week is WAY over the metrics from Italy or China where a tiny amount of unwell younger people died.

Now an underlying condition can be anything, asthma (even mild), high blood pressure, you can even have undiagnosed cancers etc.. that can provoke the deadly immune response. It's much safer to follow the advice and avoid this fucker but we shouldn't lose our minds either that it's suddenly killing anyone at random, it's just heavily reported when they are younger for several reasons.

Plain old flu kills young people every year at random, we just rarely hear about it in the news. It felt oddly timed that when the national discourse was young people ignoring Social Distancing laws we suddenly get 3 people in 24 hours reported as dying in the low risk age bracket. I am not suggesting this isn't a thing, more that the reporting without full facts felt a little "targeted".
 

Garfield

Member
Oct 31, 2018
1,894
well so much for shielding for 12 weeks. that's not happening anymore. you'd think at times like this it'd be enough to explain your health issues or at the very most show your employer proof if they didn't already have it on record (mine do). still need to fill in paperwork and go for monthly meetings. 1. my doctor isn't giving out sick notes just told to "discuss it with your employer" but they want a sick note every month. 2. they want "back to work" meetings every month too....how am i meant to go for meetings if i'm trying to stay inside?

just told them i'll be back next week. lets hope i don't catch this...

i might as well go out now to the shops since i'm not shielding. that's a joke too. still a huge queue outside tesco with people all up each others arses leaving no space.
did you get a letter? Our work changed tact and said you needed the letter from the Gov for the 12 weeks
 

TheGummyBear

Member
Jan 6, 2018
1,150
United Kingdom
A lot busier round my way today, I even got caught in traffic on the way to work.
I've noted that there's a lot more traffic around where I live too. The road outside of my flat and the main road through town was empty this time last week.

It's still not at normal levels of traffic, but you certainly wouldn't think we're supposed to be in quarantine.

With the pleasant weather out, and the distrust of the government in general, I just don't see the quarantine lasting very long without some serious enforcement being put in place. And even then, I'm not sure if a draconian lockdown could work. Services are already stretched thin, and there are a lot of people who don't want to be cooped up inside while the spring weather is in full swing.
 

Dougald

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,860
Developed a horrendous cough overnight and now I'm self-isolating for a week

I feel bad as I've pushed a bunch of work back, but I just can't risk infecting the few other people who still need to maintain a physical presence at work.
 

Garfield

Member
Oct 31, 2018
1,894
I've noted that there's a lot more traffic around where I live too. The road outside of my flat and the main road through town was empty this time last week.

It's still not at normal levels of traffic, but you certainly wouldn't think we're supposed to be in quarantine.

With the pleasant weather out, and the distrust of the government in general, I just don't see the quarantine lasting very long without some serious enforcement being put in place. And even then, I'm not sure if a draconian lockdown could work. Services are already stretched thin, and there are a lot of people who don't want to be cooped up inside while the spring weather is in full swing.
The police were on the radio this morning asking people to stop the ‘stupid‘ reporting. Apparently they are getting reports of neighbours going out twice in a day!!
 

Blackthorn

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,223
London
I feel like just police driving around with megaphones telling people to disperse would help, anything to make this seem more real and serious.

Where I live most people are abiding to distancing but it’s still very busy outside and I saw three groups of more than two out yesterday (not including families).
 

LewieP

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
10,841
I feel like just police driving around with megaphones telling people to disperse would help, anything to make this seem more real and serious.

Where I live most people are abiding to distancing but it’s still very busy outside and I saw three groups of more than two out yesterday (not including families).
 

limerobot

Member
Apr 26, 2019
946
Developed a horrendous cough overnight and now I'm self-isolating for a week

I feel bad as I've pushed a bunch of work back, but I just can't risk infecting the few other people who still need to maintain a physical presence at work.
dont feel bad, you have to isolate - you have no choice

look after yourself