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Shy

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
18,520
I agree people would still work with a basic UBI, not 2K, it would cause such a shift. And i suspect with huge inflation that 2K would not be worth what it is now for very long
If the US can click their fingers, and magic up a trillion dollars over night to pump into the stock exchange Without it causing hyper inflation. Then there's no excuse to do it for this.

Humans agreed on these arbitrary rules. Money isn't continental drift or erosion, where we just say. "well, that's the way it is" and shrug our shoulders.

It's all made up, And when enough people turn around agree that the rules should change, it stops being the way it is.
2K per household maybe, still generous, but imagine a house with 4 adults, you really want to give them 8k a month?
During this mess. Which is going to last at least 2 years. Yes, yes i would.

Why wouldn't i ?
if you're not supposed to leave your house and do non essential work, how do you pay your bills?
Eat your bootstraps.
 

Garfield

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 31, 2018
2,772
in other news which is wholly unimportant

our dept (local authority) who were all made essential workers (which is bollocks) the manager had received so many complaints from all of us, sent a email telling us all to STFU and get on with it.

Lovely
 

IpKaiFung

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,367
Wales
seriously though, if people live pay check to pay check and land lords live pay check to pay check and corporations apparently live pay check to pay check, then isn't the system broken?

sounds like just in time supply but with money instead of goods.
 

IDreamOfHime

Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,441
seriously though, if people live pay check to pay check and land lords live pay check to pay check and corporations apparently live pay check to pay check, then isn't the system broken?

sounds like just in time supply but with money instead of goods.
Of course the system is broken, but most are in denial of it. The current crisis might open some eyes.
If so many people can't survive 3 weeks without a paycheck then the shitstorm approaching when this generation hits retirement age is gonna make this current situation seem tiny.
 

mr-paul

Member
Oct 27, 2017
56
London
I agree people would still work with a basic UBI, not 2K, it would cause such a shift. And i suspect with huge inflation that 2K would not be worth what it is now for very long

2K per household maybe, still generous, but imagine a house with 4 adults, you really want to give them 8k a month?

After tax and NI that is £30,338 pa. per person

you would be firmly on my xmas card list

Not sure how you make 2,000 x 12 months minus tax £30k... You may want to check your maths!
 

MrKlaw

Member
Oct 25, 2017
33,059
Seeing a lot of my self employed friends kicking off about the scheme to support them as basically they played themselves by fiddling their earnings every year.

Hope this situation also highlights all those companies that register offshore so they can dodge taxes too and in the aftermath we get a system that closes all these loopholes that get exploited and everyone pays their fair share.

i was thinking about this - it's capped at 50k profits I think? Which the government is extrapolating to be 200k 'earnings'. If you pay yourself a wage that may make sense. But I'm sure a lot of contractors that are single person companies are paying themselves no wages to avoid NI and tax and then paying themselves a dividend each year - in that situations would hey be screwed over as their profits will basically be their wages (eg a contractor on £250 a day which is low for any kind of IT/dev would be bringing in over £60k per year which could hit the cap depending how the company is set up)

i'm also still not happy that it seems to be a general payout. Is there no requirement to prove lack of work? For furloughed workers companics need to at least fill in a form saying they aren't working. Self employed is difficult to prove maybe but a blanket payment seems a blunt instrument. Many people I know in IT/software are contractors, still working, easy to wfh and are not affected by this. Surely the money should be going to those that need it, and if you can target it, you might be able to increase the support by paying to fewer people.

and if you're not furloughed and just laid off - you're stuck on unemployment benefit?
 

Garfield

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 31, 2018
2,772
Not sure how you make 2,000 x 12 months minus tax £30k... You may want to check your maths!

If your salary is £30,338, then after tax and national insurance you will be left with £24,010.73. This means that after tax you will take home £2,000.89 per month,

Dr Google tells me this
 

Shy

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
18,520
you either live in a socialist hellhole like us germans where we get help when shit goes down or you saved up at least a little before a crisis like that.
Even if you have money saved. If you work in a zero hour contract job (which is the majority here) you're fucked.

People just don't care. Because line must go up, at all times.
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,731
Can't understand why you guys don't have food in the supermarkets. Here in Ireland its a little more bare than usual but you can usually get what you want. Lots of meet and pasta/rice/potatoes.

We're still all getting used to self-isolation but I'm notice were not spending nearly as much. All our meals are home cooked now, obviously, and with time to do it properly, so we're eating pretty well.
 

Guppeth

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,829
Sheffield, UK
Can't understand why you guys don't have food in the supermarkets. Here in Ireland its a little more bare than usual but you can usually get what you want. Lots of meet and pasta/rice/potatoes.

We're still all getting used to self-isolation but I'm notice were not spending nearly as much. All our meals are home cooked now, obviously, and with time to do it properly, so we're eating pretty well.
There's plenty of food in most supermarkets now.
 

Nooblet

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,633
£2000 a month is a very comfortable for one person outside London. I make that much and I still have savings of like a few hundred every month while living in a nice place.

Imo UBI should be just enough to be liveable because the current UC isn't enough to live a life. So somewhere around £1300 per month after taxes, add a few hundred for London maybe.
 

P-MAC

Member
Nov 15, 2017
4,464
in other news which is wholly unimportant

our dept (local authority) who were all made essential workers (which is bollocks) the manager had received so many complaints from all of us, sent a email telling us all to STFU and get on with it.

Lovely

that's a walk out fam, fuck that person
 

Nooblet

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,633
seriously though, if people live pay check to pay check and land lords live pay check to pay check and corporations apparently live pay check to pay check, then isn't the system broken?

sounds like just in time supply but with money instead of goods.
Mate I've been saying this for years.
Something is wrong somewhere in the system if a large majority of people only live pay check to pay check and have no savings.
 

Soap

Member
Oct 27, 2017
15,188
Nurses starting out make less than 2K a month after taxes so there is no way people can reasonably expect anything close to that on UI.
 

Qikz

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,490
seriously though, if people live pay check to pay check and land lords live pay check to pay check and corporations apparently live pay check to pay check, then isn't the system broken?

sounds like just in time supply but with money instead of goods.

There is 0 way in hell a large majority of landlords in this country are living paycheck to paycheck.

Landlords have the power (and often do) buy houses (1/2 bed) in cash immediately when they go up for sale to increase their 'portfolio' I got told this by multiple mortgage advisers and estate agents when looking to get into my first shared ownership flat. They have no mortgage they have to pay each month, they own the house fully.
 

IpKaiFung

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,367
Wales
There is 0 way in hell a large majority of landlords in this country are living paycheck to paycheck.

Landlords have the power (and often do) buy houses (1/2 bed) in cash immediately when they go up for sale to increase their 'portfolio' I got told this by multiple mortgage advisers and estate agents when looking to get into my first shared ownership flat. They have no mortgage they have to pay each month, they own the house fully.

I forgot to write apparently in regards to landlords.
 
Dec 2, 2017
20,636
We're unable to move because of the current situation (our lease expires this month) and our landlord is emailing us telling us he still has the right to put the rent up until the lockdown has ended.
 

dean_rcg

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,270
£2000 a month is a very comfortable for one person outside London. I make that much and I still have savings of like a few hundred every month while living in a nice place.

Imo UBI should be just enough to be liveable because the current UC isn't enough to live a life. So somewhere around £1300 per month after taxes, add a few hundred for London maybe.

Agreed UBI doesn't need to be so high because we're all staying in and spending less.
 

Number45

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,038
I hope this is a wake up call to people on how darn important the NHS is to this nation.
If you speak to these people they'll extoll the virtues of the NHS until they're blue in the face (or clap in the street), but when it comes to voting time it's "gimme gimme gimme".

We're unable to move because of the current situation (our lease expires this month) and our landlord is emailing us telling us he still has the right to put the rent up until the lockdown has ended.
They need to make this against the law in the current climate.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,326
Dundee, Scotland
Really starting to worry about going back to work on Tuesday. Expressed to my boss that due to the layout of our building maintaining social distancing will be extremely problematic, my desk is situated right next to both the kitchen and bathrooms, which means if anyone on my floor wants a drink or needs to go to the loo they have to pass me. When I asked about having my desk moved (it's a whole thing because it's a DSE assigned desk) I was told the social distancing rules don't apply if people are passing, only if they congregate? They have limited the use of the lifts to one person at a time, which totally makes sense, they are sardine tins, but all this means is that everyone will use the stairs. Now, I've been in there when we've had fire drills, our stair wells are rammed when 1000 people all try to use them simultaneously. How the hell are we all supposed to get to our desks on time in the morning? Are they going to stagger entry to just a few at a time? Again, was told social distancing doesn't apply as it's not people congregating.

We have our own version of Facebook for the office,. it's usually nonsense but now it's people posting "funny" videos of social distancing in the office. Aerobics while on chairs, serving hot drinks to those online while the office clown does a dance, etc... The usual office cringe. Except nobody is respecting the two meter rule. Not even close. The dancing fool? Less than one meter from everyone and having a grand old time yucking it up. Those doing aerobics? Reaching out for one another then pulling away at the last moment with a "oooh!" It's become a fucking meme to people.

Discussed this with my boss, but they pretty much dismissed me as being alarmist. People are just having fun during this stressful time.

Eagerly awaiting the inter-office emails in six to ten weeks raising funds for families who have lost loved ones to this.
 

dean_rcg

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,270
Just read the Gov admit they missed the deadline to join the EU Ventilator scheme, so much for Matt Hancock saying we'd take any amount of ventilators from anyone - staggering incompetence.
 

Koukalaka

Member
Oct 28, 2017
9,290
Scotland
in other news which is wholly unimportant

our dept (local authority) who were all made essential workers (which is bollocks) the manager had received so many complaints from all of us, sent a email telling us all to STFU and get on with it.

Lovely

Our LA went from "business-as-usual, come on in" last week to "everyone WFH except for clear key workers and the people that keep things running" pretty much overnight.

Luckily I do something that can mostly be done from home, although we've all been asked to fill out a form to potentially take on alternative duties.
 
Nov 8, 2017
3,532
On the basis of what I'm reading in this thread and hearing from friends and family in the UK, does anyone have an idea why the UK supermarket situation seems to be so much worse than the situation I'm seeing in the Netherlands?

I'm a British expat living in the Netherlands, and I can still get pretty much anything I need from either of the two supermarkets where I live. It's not like the Netherlands is doing any better than the UK with regards to the number of positive cases, etc.. We had a brief period where a lot of things ran out (around 15th March I think), but it only lasted a day or two.

I don't understand why the UK supermarkets seem to be constantly out of many types of products whereas here in the Netherlands I can still get nearly anything just fine?
 

Guppeth

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,829
Sheffield, UK
On the basis of what I'm reading in this thread, does anyone have an idea why the UK supermarket situation seems to be so much worse than the situation I'm seeing in the Netherlands?
Supermarkets have stock now, in most places. Home deliveries are highly fucked, and will remain so for weeks. That can't be helped, because the infrastructure and vehicles aren't sufficient and can't be scaled up quickly.
 
Oct 31, 2017
10,056
On the basis of what I'm reading in this thread and hearing from friends and family in the UK, does anyone have an idea why the UK supermarket situation seems to be so much worse than the situation I'm seeing in the Netherlands?

I'm a British expat living in the Netherlands, and I can still get pretty much anything I need from either of the two supermarkets where I live. It's not like the Netherlands is doing any better than the UK with regards to the number of positive cases, etc.. We had a brief period where a lot of things ran out (around 15th March I think), but it only lasted a day or two.

I don't understand why the UK supermarkets seem to be constantly out of many types of products whereas here in the Netherlands I can still get nearly anything just fine?

My local supermarkets are well stocked now with all fresh goods, and even some canned and dried foods reappearing. The first wave of idiot panic buying was bad but seems to have thankfully died down.
 

Protome

Member
Oct 27, 2017
15,683
On the basis of what I'm reading in this thread and hearing from friends and family in the UK, does anyone have an idea why the UK supermarket situation seems to be so much worse than the situation I'm seeing in the Netherlands?

I'm a British expat living in the Netherlands, and I can still get pretty much anything I need from either of the two supermarkets where I live. It's not like the Netherlands is doing any better than the UK with regards to the number of positive cases, etc.. We had a brief period where a lot of things ran out (around 15th March I think), but it only lasted a day or two.

I don't understand why the UK supermarkets seem to be constantly out of many types of products whereas here in the Netherlands I can still get nearly anything just fine?
Supermarkets were never low on stock here (except for with flour? There seems to be an actual flour shortage) they just weren't able to get things on shelves fast enough to keep up with the rate people were buying them. Closing 24 hour supermarkets in the evening to restock and then only letting limited numbers of people in at a time has resolved it more or less.
 

Koukalaka

Member
Oct 28, 2017
9,290
Scotland
Supermarkets were never low on stock here (except for with flour? There seems to be an actual flour shortage) they just weren't able to get things on shelves fast enough to keep up with the rate people were buying them. Closing 24 hour supermarkets in the evening to restock and then only letting limited numbers of people in at a time has resolved it more or less.

Yeah, my understanding was that due to highly optimised supply chains, supermarkets aren't really set up to have lots of stock lying around, but "just enough" for normal times.

Either way, I was really pleasantly surprised at what I could get when I went shopping yesterday.
 
Nov 8, 2017
3,532
Supermarkets were never low on stock here (except for with flour? There seems to be an actual flour shortage) they just weren't able to get things on shelves fast enough to keep up with the rate people were buying them. Closing 24 hour supermarkets in the evening to restock and then only letting limited numbers of people in at a time has resolved it more or less.
Interesting point. There is no concept of a 24 hour supermarket here in the Netherlands, so maybe that helped keep the shelves stocked more here than in the UK?
 

gerg

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,346
On the basis of what I'm reading in this thread and hearing from friends and family in the UK, does anyone have an idea why the UK supermarket situation seems to be so much worse than the situation I'm seeing in the Netherlands?

I'm a British expat living in the Netherlands, and I can still get pretty much anything I need from either of the two supermarkets where I live. It's not like the Netherlands is doing any better than the UK with regards to the number of positive cases, etc.. We had a brief period where a lot of things ran out (around 15th March I think), but it only lasted a day or two.

I don't understand why the UK supermarkets seem to be constantly out of many types of products whereas here in the Netherlands I can still get nearly anything just fine?

Other people have already chimed in, but a lot of is to do with optimised just-in-time supply chains that can't cope with a sudden surge of an additional 10% demand (if not slightly more) that hasn't been forecast. After a week or two of chaos we're now seeing the results of adjustments to that demand.

Anecdotally, where I live the big Tesco is still out of staples (dried pasta, toilet roll, soap), but there's a tiny Sainsbury's further down the road which is much more fully stocked, because fewer people probably go there.

Also, what percentage of people's food spend goes to eating out in the Netherlands? Here in the UK it is (I believe) approximately 30%. Now that everyone is working from home and almost all the major food chains have closed, supermarkets are also having to accommodate that extra demand (while, stupidly, a major amount of wholesale food goes unused and locked into that supply chain)!
 

16bits

Member
Apr 26, 2019
2,862
local supermarkets well stocked here too.

Two weeks ago, panic buying stripped the shelves of everything. Now its much more controlled, only letting a limited number of ppl in, old people allowed in early (but annoyingly didnt turn up at that time but turned up at 9 and moaned the general public were also let in) is working.

As is limiting the number of each items you can buy.

Toilet rolls, eggs, fresh veg, meat, fruit were all ok.
 

16bits

Member
Apr 26, 2019
2,862
www.theguardian.com

Sports Direct's Mike Ashley apologises for poor Covid-19 actions

After trying to keep shops open, boss says emails to government were ill-judged and poorly timed

Mike Ashley apologizing for being a greedy cunt and trying to keep Sports Direct open during all this shit. Which is very unlike him... He usually doesn't apologize for being a greedy cunt.

he may be realising that when this is all over his business is done, same for that wetherspoons guy
 

twofold

Member
Oct 28, 2017
544
On the basis of what I'm reading in this thread and hearing from friends and family in the UK, does anyone have an idea why the UK supermarket situation seems to be so much worse than the situation I'm seeing in the Netherlands?

I'm a British expat living in the Netherlands, and I can still get pretty much anything I need from either of the two supermarkets where I live. It's not like the Netherlands is doing any better than the UK with regards to the number of positive cases, etc.. We had a brief period where a lot of things ran out (around 15th March I think), but it only lasted a day or two.

I don't understand why the UK supermarkets seem to be constantly out of many types of products whereas here in the Netherlands I can still get nearly anything just fine?



Give this thread a read ^

Explains why we're seeing shortages in the UK but not in other countries.
 

Nooblet

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,633
Honestly, outside of toilet paper and maybe eggs. I don't seem to be having much issue finding things now, even later in the day.
Even then I'd usually find eggs in another store nearby if one doesn't have it.
 

Aprikurt

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 29, 2017
18,781
he may be realising that when this is all over his business is done, same for that wetherspoons guy
I admire your optimism man, but if you don't think come September punters are queuing up in droves for 2 for £5 jaegerbombs and a £5 beer and burger...
tumblr_njqk46zr1J1u5pkgoo2_500.gif

Honestly, outside of toilet paper and maybe eggs. I don't seem to be having much issue finding things now, even later in the day.
Even then I'd usually find eggs in another store nearby if one doesn't have it.
Eggs are my white whale now. I can't find the bastards anywhere, and I'm making brownies tomorrow. Time is of the essence.
 
Nov 8, 2017
3,532
Also, what percentage of people's food spend goes to eating out in the Netherlands? Here in the UK it is (I believe) approximately 30%. Now that everyone is working from home and almost all the major food chains have closed, supermarkets are also having to accommodate that extra demand (while, stupidly, a major amount of wholesale food goes unused and locked into that supply chain)!
This is also a great point. I don't know what the Dutch figure is, but I'd imagine that it's less than 30% on the basis that we don't really have many casual dining options in the Netherlands like you have in the UK. The main dining options here are either takeaways (generally worse and much more expensive than in the UK), or paying ~€20+ (plus drinks) per person for a meal in a sit-down restaurant.
 

Salty_Josh

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,942
Okay I must be missing something, but what's the point in taxing UBI?


But to add to the discussion I can't find pasta, eggs or toilet paper. Bread is still stocked and there's some cheese (just the reduced fat stuff 🤢) and everything else is still stocked
 

Deleted member 21431

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
596
My other half only became self employed 6 weeks ago so is totally screwed now and can't claim UC either cos of my wage. Gonna be a tight few months of running the house on my wage. I just hope the bank grant us the mortgage holiday.
 

Qikz

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,490
he may be realising that when this is all over his business is done, same for that wetherspoons guy

I feel bad for saying this, but I hope it is. I feel sorry for the people who work for him but they'll be better elsewhere.

The sad thing is even if his company folds he'll still be a millionaire.
 

Tangyn

Member
Oct 29, 2017
2,281
My other half only became self employed 6 weeks ago so is totally screwed now and can't claim UC either cos of my wage. Gonna be a tight few months of running the house on my wage. I just hope the bank grant us the mortgage holiday.

Yep going self employed really can mess some shit up. I was self employed for 18~ months but when it went all tits up I wasn't able to get shiiiiiiiit. Couldn't claim jobseekers as the wrong NI type was paid and couldn't get UC as my wife is a millionaire who earns £22,000 per year.

So yea I feel for you all - luckily I found a job quickly in the local council so im sorted now but real glad it happened 6 months ago rather than now!
 
Oct 27, 2018
701
Has anyone else's local council scrapped recycling? We're being told to just put everything into the "general waste" wheelie bin and it's getting collected weekly.

I know we're in crisis but it seems a bit negligent to me, all things considered.