UK Coronavirus Discussion

Oct 28, 2017
2,142

They all lie so much that they have no idea what's what anymore.

It'd be nice if just one of 'em came out and said "Yeah, he acted like a bit of a tit but he shouldn't lose his job over it" Just an acknowledgement to his wrongdoing.
 

Kalor

Resettlement Advisor
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,221
It's encouraging to see that yesterday didn't turn the tide in any way in support of the government. Still some hope in this country. That clip of Gove on LBC is great.
 

DeltaRed

Member
Apr 27, 2018
5,509
5 years till another election so I don't think public opinion and polls really bother the Government much, they can do whatever they like and there will be no repercussions.
 

PJV3

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,056
London
5 years till another election so I don't think public opinion and polls really bother the Government much, they can do whatever they like and there will be no repercussions.
There's some postponed elections next year, and they shouldn't be burning through good will before the new year and some possibly tough times of a different variety. The government is safe for years but Boris still has to keep his side happy and feel like he's in control.
 

Principate

Member
Oct 31, 2017
10,113
5 years till another election so I don't think public opinion and polls really bother the Government much, they can do whatever they like and there will be no repercussions.
They'll worry about voter intention nothing else really. If Labour starts catching up or surpassing it means Boris will be ditched long before next election unless something radical happens.
 

Deleted member 44129

User requested account closure
Banned
May 29, 2018
7,690
Well, here i am at tesco click and collect same as every tuesday. Theres a sign saying stay in hour car and they’ll take your name then put shopping in your boot.

Except nobodu takes your name, so everyone gets out of the car, uses the touchscreen. Those that follow the rules dont get their stuff because they get left behind. As soon as the staff member brings your shopping people just walk up to the staff member and just talk to them from a few feet away. One womans doing it and shes got a newborn babyin her arms!

Do people not know what 2 metres looks like? edit: the fucking staff member who came to my car window fucking didnt
 
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Kalor

Resettlement Advisor
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,221
This year was meant to be the governments victory lap before a no deal Brexit at the end of the year. They needed as much good will stored up as they could get, and a pandemic should normally be an easy win.
 

Protome

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,448
Once this is all over, I'll miss how familiar you guys have become :P
I'm sure the UK Politics thread will be revived after this goes away. This thread is mostly the same people and it has replaced it to some degree (kinda like the Brexit thread did last year) because it's the biggest political issue around atm.

And yes, before a certain Tory/Brexiteer complains about it again, Coronavirus is also a political issue as well as a health one.
 

Uzzy

Gabe’s little helper
Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,534
Hull, UK
I'm sure the UK Politics thread will be revived after this goes away. This thread is mostly the same people and it has replaced it to some degree (kinda like the Brexit thread did last year) because it's the biggest political issue around atm.

And yes, before a certain Tory/Brexiteer complains about it again, Coronavirus is also a political issue as well as a health one.
Yep, the Brexit threads were huge, understandably so. UK PoliEra is still around, and BritERA could probably do with a reboot.
 

Praxis

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,938
UK
Yeah I live in a tourist town in Cornwall (Porthleven) and its starting to get a bit unimaginable at certain points. Its defeintley picked up since lockdown was eased (Actualy a few days before when it was clear measures were going to be announced). I think a majority of the time people can distance, but it always reaches a point in the afternoon where it becomes silly and impossible. We opened up another till in the supermarket where I work to try and ease congestion (as well as one in one out) and even then it was difficult. Its feels like rush hour all the time at the moment.

Doesn't help really most people have given up on social distancing. Groups of kids everywhere. People casually chatting together in groups outside. I'm kind of inclined just to say bollocks to it all and get on with it. Its kind of reached that point. Feel sorry for the doctors and nurses who are no doubt dreading a second wave.

Getting like that down here near St Ives, summer is going to be heaving
 

ChrisP8Three

Member
Oct 26, 2017
752
Leeds
Meanwhile...


I wonder if there'll be a point when certain people look at how other countries have handled this, and think...that could have been us.
All the poeple not indoctrinated and smart enough to see other countries handling of this, already keep asking why aren't we as good as New Zealand, South Korea etc. Everyone else is deluding themselves in cold comfort that we aren't as bad as America.

Give it five years and a public inquiry will rip into this and all the sycophants will have switched allegiances by then and will be ripping into the old wrong government and completely disregarding their support for them in the past
 

Kromeo

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,275
I knew Ireland had handled the whole thing better than us but they've just had a day with no registered deaths.. And they're still being more cautious than us about reopening everything
 

avaya

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,005
London
I knew Ireland had handled the whole thing better than us but they've just had a day with no registered deaths.. And they're still being more cautious than us about reopening everything
The government is run by the same donor class as those who fund the GOP. Cummings was their chosen man, Johnson the vessel. We are literally being run by a bunch of white supremacist libertarians. People have not grasped this yet. The UK is a shambles, we have fallen far. Yet this is not the end. It will get much much much worse before it get's better. The systemic collapse and breakdown of the US political system is a guide to where we are headed in this country. First past the post makes such a thing possible in both countries.
 

gerg

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,794
The government is run by the same donor class as those who fund the GOP. Cummings was their chosen man, Johnson the vessel. We are literally being run by a bunch of white supremacist libertarians. People have not grasped this yet. The UK is a shambles, we have fallen far. Yet this is not the end. It will get much much much worse before it get's better. The systemic collapse and breakdown of the US political system is a guide to where we are headed in this country. First past the post makes such a thing possible in both countries.
I don't think you can compare the UK and US electoral systems so directly (however broken FPTP may be), on account of the electoral college in America. While in 2019 the Conservatives did not win a majority of votes, they did win more votes than each other party; in 2016 in America, by contrast, the Republicans actually lost the popular vote.
 

eonden

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,731
I don't think you can compare the UK and US electoral systems so directly (however broken FPTP may be), on account of the electoral college in America. While in 2019 the Conservatives did not win a majority of votes, they did win more votes than each other party; in 2016 in America, by contrast, the Republicans actually lost the popular vote.
The last 2 Tory absolute majorities were obtaines with less than 50% of the vote.
In the last election, Tories got an 40 seat majority with only 43.6% of the vote (which accounted for 365 seats). Labor only had 202 for a 32% of the vote. Lib dems got 11 for 11.6% of the vote.

Edit: In the previous election the tories had a seat majority with 42.4% of the vote. Their 42.4% of the vote was 317 seats while the Labor 40% was only 262. A difference of 55 seats for 2%.
There is a disproportion on the "Tory" win.
 

gerg

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,794
The last 2 Tory majorities were obtaines with less than 50% of the vote. The tories have an 80 seat majority with 42% of the vote. Their 42% of the vote was 365 seats while the Labor 40% was only 202. A difference of 163 seats for 2%.
I'm not denying that the Tories didn't win a majority of votes overall, but they won more votes than each other party. They were the largest party. That this translates into a disproportionate count of seats is different from being voted in while not being the most popular party.

I agree that the system is broken, but I think the US and UK systems are broken in quite significantly different ways.
 

PJV3

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,056
London
I'm not denying that the Tories didn't win a majority of votes overall, but they won more votes than each other party. They were the largest party. That this translates into a disproportionate count of seats is different from being voted in while not being the most popular party.

I agree that the system is broken, but I think the US and UK systems are broken in quite significantly different ways.
Yeah, the winning party getting fewer votes and more seats doesn't happen often, i think 51 was the worst example if i remember correctly.
 

eonden

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,731
I'm not denying that the Tories didn't win a majority of votes overall, but they won more votes than each other party. They were the largest party. That this translates into a disproportionate count of seats is different from being voted in while not being the most popular party.

I agree that the system is broken, but I think the US and UK systems are broken in quite significantly different ways.
I mean, the problem is that FPTP can lead you to wins even when having less votes because of differentials in small areas. In the previous election against May, 2% accounted for 40 seats difference.
The same "well, the party that won disproportionally at least won the vote!" could have been said about the US electoral system before Bush or Trump (as the winner of the electoral system tends to be the one who gets more votes).

But if you want to have a better example, the US house (which is a similar system as the UK parliament although more problematic due to politicians being able to control part of the seat distribution) often has the Dems needing to win 52%+ of the general vote to carry it due to gerrymandering / problems in the differentials. Which is a similar case in the UK.
 
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Brotherhood93

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,293
Boris approvals down from +44 to -1 in two months.

I know it seems like the Tories get away with everything and people have short memories but I don't recall such a quick decline in approval ratings like this before. Maybe with May but, as we know, she never recovered. This might not be the end of the Tories but Boris could be in trouble if he doesn't sort it out.
 

gerg

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,794
Yeah, the winning party getting fewer votes and more seats doesn't happen often, i think 51 was the worst example if i remember correctly.
Ah, I hadn't known that had ever happened!

I mean, the problem is that FPTP can lead you to wins even when having less votes because of differentials in small areas. In the previous election against May, 2% accounted for 40 seats difference.
The same "well, the party that won disproportionally at least won the vote!" could have been said about the US electoral system before Bush or Trump (as the winner of the electoral system tends to be the one who gets more votes).

But if you want to have a better example, the US house (which is a similar system as the UK parliament although more problematic due to politicians being able to control part of the seat distribution) often has the Dems needing to win 52%+ of the general vote to carry it due to gerrymandering / problems in the differentials. Which is a similar case in the UK.
I'm still not convinced by the use of comparing our system to America's, except for general issues surrounding rural/urban divides.
 

avaya

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,005
London
I don't think you can compare the UK and US electoral systems so directly (however broken FPTP may be), on account of the electoral college in America. While in 2019 the Conservatives did not win a majority of votes, they did win more votes than each other party; in 2016 in America, by contrast, the Republicans actually lost the popular vote.
First past the post is the primary reason why right-wing parties pushing ethnonationalist policies are able to coral a plurality from a minority position. The majority of people did not vote conservative yet we have a hard right government with absolute power. It is a manifestly absurd situation. It is the primary reason why the US is ultimately fucked because of the Senate (Wyoming = CA) and is the reason why this country has had so many years of Conservative rule. Generally speaking it is much harder for the far right to win in a PR system. Even if they win they will need coalitions.

No we are more fucked than the US. People really have not realised this yet.The US has demographics on it's side and can wrestle control of the executive branch and the House. The judicial system is fucked though. The UK doesn't have the right demographics, it is much more susceptible to falling under the thumb of ethnonationalist rule (Brexit says hi!). They are using the US playbook of culture wars.
 

gerg

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,794
First past the post is the primary reason why right-wing parties pushing ethnonationalist policies are able to coral a plurality from a minority position. The majority of people did not vote conservative yet we have a hard right government with absolute power. It is a manifestly absurd situation. It is the primary reason why the US is ultimately fucked because of the Senate (Wyoming = CA) and is the reason why this country has had so many years of Conservative rule. Generally speaking it is much harder for the far right to win in a PR system. Even if they win they will need coalitions.

No we are more fucked than the US. People really have not realised this yet.The US has demographics on it's side and can wrestle control of the executive branch and the House. The judicial system is fucked though. The UK doesn't have the right demographics, it is much more susceptible to falling under the thumb of ethnonationalist rule (Brexit says hi!). They are using the US playbook of culture wars.
I don't disagree that it is an absurd situation.