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Foffy

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
16,394
Brexit is definitely the number 1 issue.

As previous conversation with my mum, she would even sacrifice the NHS if it means Brexit can be done and the 'immigrants' have a much harder time using the service.

She is also working class. And unfortunately, her opinion is kinda common with other voters in the Heartlands.

Save some laughs for her when she's in troubled times. I know she's your mother, but she needs raw pain in the same way she's cool with giving it to others. That's the only way these Boomers learn, and even then they'll pull some exceptionalist "but why me" boohoo theatrics.

Appalling to see people shoot themselves in the foot when they claim they're shooting away the """""dangerous""""" people.
 

Izzard

Banned
Sep 21, 2018
4,606
As horrible as this is, at least Corbyn and momentum are going, and we can hopefully get to a place where the leader of the opposition is electable. Gonna take some time I think.
 

Smokey_Run

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
4,631
It's really scary. The conservative scum won in Australia recently against expectations, now this massive defeat happens in the UK, only the dreadful extent of which is surprising... yeah, now to worry about the US. Best victory we've had is the Liberal Centrists in Canada holding off the Trump-like conservatives. I had a nightmare last night about the UK election and the Tories winning; now I've woken up to this news and I prefer the nightmare as it was nicer.

These are very dark times for the whole world. Against the wealthy increasingly squeezing everybody with economic pressures, and with climate change deepening its effects, and the intrinsic racism and selfishness of people, it's hard to be hopeful we can fight these forces pushing people to the right even further and causing the world to burn.
At that end of the day, hate and fear sell better.

I fear pockets on the left sitting at home come next November because their candidate didn't win.
 

PrintedCrayon

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
771
Seadome
I am terrified about what might happen to our NHS. Turkeys voting for Christmas all over again.

Thank you British right-wing media. I'm sure your overlords are laughing all the way to the bank.
 

His Majesty

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,171
Belgium
So when is it likely that UK will leave EU? Beginning of next year or later?
Depends if Boris wants to leave with trade agreements in place or not.

If Boris wants to speed up the process he will likely have to make major concessions to the EU. If not, his deadline of reaching a deal by the end of 2020 seems to be the end product of mass delusion.

The first priority will be to negotiate a trade deal with the EU. The UK wants as much access as possible for its goods and services to the EU.

But the Conservatives have made clear that the UK must leave the customs union and single market and end the overall jurisdiction of the European Court of Justice.

Time is short. The EU could take weeks to agree a formal negotiating mandate - all the remaining 27 member states and the European parliament have to be in agreement. That means formal talks might only begin in March.

These negotiations need to produce a final agreement by the end of June. That is the point at which the UK has to decide whether or not to extend the transition period (by one or two years). But Mr Johnson has ruled out any form of extension.

If no trade deal has been agreed by the end of June, then the UK faces the prospect of leaving without one at the end of December 2020.

If an agreement has been reached, it also has to be ratified before coming into force and that is a process which could take several months.

No trade deal of this size and complexity has ever been agreed between the EU and an external country anywhere near as quickly as the timeframe planned here.

Mr Johnson has argued that as the UK is completely aligned to EU rules, the negotiation should be straightforward. But critics have pointed out that the UK wishes to have the freedom to diverge from EU rules so it can do deals with other countries - and that will make negotiations more difficult.

It's not just a trade deal that needs to be sorted out. The UK must agree how it is going to co-operate with the EU on security and law enforcement. The UK is set to leave the European Arrest Warrant scheme and will have to agree a replacement. It must also agree deals in a number of other areas where co-operation is needed.
 

Protome

Member
Oct 27, 2017
15,695
Scotland accepting all non-Tories, just bring a shovel so we can dig across the border and separate off
 
Oct 25, 2017
15,110
I will say that, as an outsider, following the election on Twitter could have given you the impression that it's going to be a big win for Labour lol
 
Nov 13, 2017
460
Save some laughs for her when she's in troubled times. I know she's your mother, but she needs raw pain in the same way she's cool with giving it to others. That's the only way these Boomers learn, and even then they'll pull some exceptionalist "but why me" boohoo theatrics.

Appalling to see people shoot themselves in the foot when they claim they're shooting away the """""dangerous""""" people.

Thing is, my mum's Racism is unfortunately born out of trauma and mistreatment. She married my Dad, a second generation Pakistani, who turned out to be an abusive husband and father. That combined with living in ghetto areas where we have experience being 'outsiders' because we were treated as a white family in heavily dominant Pakistani areas in Bradford, and it formed her opinion today.

She justifies her hatred because she feels she's a victim.

Honestly after the election and experiencing my mother's political viewpoint, it feels like my existence as a mixed race white British Pakistani seems to be born out of regretful hatred. That because of my existence and or the existence of immigrants coming to the counter for a better life, resulted in white working class wanting to destroy the NHS to get rid of the immigrants.

Unfortunately she's my mother and no matter what, despite her political opinion, she's been a great mother to me. I just wish she didn't have to vote against her self interest.
 

Foffy

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
16,394
Boomers don't use social media as it turns out.

This is a BIG takeaway for America, too. Boomers largely hate Bernie Sanders, yet for the youth, he is far and away the most popular politician in America right now.

Boomers gonna fuck it up again. They've never done the right thing when we need them to the most.

Thing is, my mum's Racism is unfortunately born out of trauma and mistreatment. She married my Dad, a second generation Pakistani, who turned out to be an abusive husband and father. That combined with living in ghetto areas where we have experience being 'outsiders' because we were treated as a white family in heavily dominant Pakistani areas in Bradford, and it formed her opinion today.

She justifies her hatred because she feels she's a victim.

Honestly after the election and experiencing my mother's political viewpoint, it feels like my existence as a mixed race white British Pakistani seems to be born out of regretful hatred. That because of my existence and or the existence of immigrants coming to the counter for a better life, resulted in white working class wanting to destroy the NHS to get rid of the immigrants.

I am very sorry for the experiences of your mother and the feelings it gives you. Maybe I'm weird but I'd look at all of that to see that the problem was divisionist thinking in the first place, not because there are just "bad people" because they're a minority.

All that said, however, the bolded seems to be true no matter where in the west. America's been doing this for decades. This is going to potentially be Trump's winning hand with the boomers.
 

ryodi

#TeamThierry
Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,365
At least the US has what passes for checks and balances. Johnson's majority is an elected dictatorship, he can now do whatever he wants aided by Henry VIII laws that will sideline Parliament anyway. It's going to be very very bad.
 

2ndTuXx

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
671
It's just so frustrating how people would vote against the very thing that could save them.
 

PrintedCrayon

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
771
Seadome
This is a BIG takeaway for America, too. Boomers largely hate Bernie Sanders, yet for the youth, he is far and away the most popular politician in America right now.

Boomers gonna fuck it up again. They've never done the right thing when we need them to the most.

They couldn't give a shit about younger generations. That's the sad reality.

Only ever looking to better their position.

...yes, i'm incredibly bitter this morning haha.
 
OP
OP
Oct 27, 2017
13,464
I will say that, as an outsider, following the election on Twitter could have given you the impression that it's going to be a big win for Labour lol
image.png.a9f606f890bd4jvz.png
 

BAW

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,940
That's... not the result I was expecting.
It seems most Brits are in favor of Brexit for some reason.
Although I can't fathom why.
 

Foffy

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
16,394
At least the US has what passes for checks and balances. Johnson's majority is an elected dictatorship, he can now do whatever he wants aided by Henry VIII laws that will sideline Parliament anyway. It's going to be very very bad.

Wait until Trump is acquitted. Then you're going to see the push to a dictatorship. If he or the GOP gain anything, that's it.
 

.exe

Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,241
At least we'll be able to heckle idiot family members daily by asking if Brexit is fucking done yet over the course of the next 3 years minimum.
 

Zaph

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,102
I think people have to come to terms with England being a fundamentally right leaning country. When the right wing parties go further right, they're rewarded, when the center/left goes further left, they're taken to the cleaners and ridiculed.

Middle England wants a degree of misery and the ability to blame their lack of success and unhappiness on a construct out of their control. And the Tories more than happy to give it to them.
 

MrKlaw

Member
Oct 25, 2017
33,065
the Conservatives will have their biggest majority at Westminster since Margaret Thatcher's 1987 election victory.

Labour, which has lost seats across the North, Midlands and Wales in places which backed Brexit in 2016, is facing its worst defeat since 1935.

I don't know what to say. Did Labours position on Brexit and leave voters in those Labour seats cause them to lose so many? But then why wouldn't strong remain voters have dented the Tories?

After all the blatant lying, the disrespect for parliament and the people - to have such a result is honestly mind boggling
 

mugurumakensei

Elizabeth, I’m coming to join you!
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,330
I think people have to come to terms with England being a fundamentally right leaning country. When the right wing parties go further right, they're rewarded, when the center/left goes further left, they're taken to the cleaners and ridiculed.

Middle England wants a degree of misery and the ability to blame their lack of success and unhappiness on a construct out of their control. And the Tories more than happy to give it to them.

its the same in America and worse in some respects. Aspects of how the government is set up in the US makes it super easy to penalize those the left when the country tries to drift left since they are concentrated in urban centers in a few states while every state gets 2 electoral votes and Senators regardless of size.
 
Oct 28, 2017
2,965
That's... not the result I was expecting.
It seems most Brits are in favor of Brexit for some reason.
Although I can't fathom why.
Absolutely terrible news. Commiserations to all decent people in the UK, who are clearly in the minority. It scares me how many people can vote for ersatz evil.
So admittedly haven't followed it so closely, but what do UK'ers think caused it to swing so hard toward Johnson's government? I've heard a lot about how igf Brexit referendum occurred today, it wouldn't pass, but this seems to be the opposite indication.

Remember that this is the result of a first-past-the-post voting system exaggerating results.

Just looking at the votes share there is no clear majority for the Tories. More people voted against the Tories then for them.

https://www.bbc.com/news/election/2019/results

Conservative 43.6%
Labour 32.2%
Liberal Democrats 11.5%
Scottish National Party 3.9%
Green 2.7%
Brexit Party 2%
 

Ferrs

Avenger
Oct 26, 2017
18,829
Can't believe people voted this much for such an idiot. I fear voting idiots is going to be a thing worldwide at this rate.
 

Binabik15

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,626
It's really scary. The conservative scum won in Australia recently against expectations, now this massive defeat happens in the UK, only the dreadful extent of which is surprising... yeah, now to worry about the US. Best victory we've had is the Liberal Centrists in Canada holding off the Trump-like conservatives. I had a nightmare last night about the UK election and the Tories winning; now I've woken up to this news and I prefer the nightmare as it was nicer.

These are very dark times for the whole world. Against the wealthy increasingly squeezing everybody with economic pressures, and with climate change deepening its effects, and the intrinsic racism and selfishness of people, it's hard to be hopeful we can fight these forces pushing people to the right even further and causing the world to burn.


All Western Anglosphere countries need to outlaw anything Rupert Mourdoch touched or go down into the abyss.
 

Goskarrr

Member
Oct 27, 2017
422
All Western Anglosphere countries need to outlaw anything Rupert Mourdoch touched or go down into the abyss.
Between the news network in the U.K. and the US it really feels like he decides who gets elected more than people voting for he right cause or at least in their own best interests. Pretty scary stuff.
 

Fatoy

Member
Mar 13, 2019
7,229
Remember that this is the result of a first-past-the-post voting system exaggerating results.

Just looking at the votes share there is no clear majority for the Tories. More people voted against the Tories then for them.

https://www.bbc.com/news/election/2019/results

Conservative 43.6%
Labour 32.2%
Liberal Democrats 11.5%
Scottish National Party 3.9%
Green 2.7%
Brexit Party 2%
By this logic, nobody has a clear majority; and a Labour / Lib Dem coalition would only just edge it by 0.1%. If your argument is that whoever got the largest share of the public vote should win then... you're getting the same result.

I didn't vote Conservative, but some of the contortions people are putting themselves through to add unneeded context to a crystal-clear result make me sad.
 

PrintedCrayon

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
771
Seadome
LBC caller actively contradicting himself over not voting for Farage as he's bigoted but voted for Boris... Couldn't bring himself to vote for Labour as Corbyn has ties to the IRA.

UK public are fucking stupid.
 

Benjamin1981

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
623
Can't say i'm surprised. Corbyn is just the worst candidate and Labour should have realized this a long time ago. The next few weeks will be interesting to see now that there certainty regarding Brexit. Crashing Economy incoming.
 

Bobbetybob

Member
Nov 11, 2017
887
So admittedly haven't followed it so closely, but what do UK'ers think caused it to swing so hard toward Johnson's government? I've heard a lot about how if Brexit referendum occurred today, it wouldn't pass, but this seems to be the opposite indication.
Not a chance. If it had happened about 3 months after the first one it probably wouldn't have passed, now it would probably get 70% voting leave and 30% remain. A lot of the people voting Conservative are short sighted idiots that did it because they're sick of hearing about Brexit and Boris said he would get it done. They've handily ignored that even if he does get it done in the next 2 months (which he won't because we'll still need to agree our trade deals and all the other baggage) they're then stuck with him for however many years to reek havoc on the country.
 

BADMAN

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,887
I'm sorry UK. This is awful.

For everyone blaming Corbyn for this, you're part of the problem.
 

metalgear89

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,018
We are stuck with this cunt and his cronies for the next few years. No joke the only hope we have is the US electing somebody left wing who spits in his face as he seems to be using the US as his crutch for trade deals.
 
Oct 28, 2017
2,965
By this logic, nobody has a clear majority; and a Labour / Lib Dem coalition would only just edge it by 0.1%. If your argument is that whoever got the largest share of the public vote should win then... you're getting the same result.

I didn't vote Conservative, but some of the contortions people are putting themselves through to add unneeded context to a crystal-clear result make me sad.

I didn't say Labour/Lib Dems would win. Nobody would win. The UK are completely divided. There's no majority for Remain. But there isn't one for Brexit either.

(But maybe that's just me. Coming from a country with proportional voting, fptp seems deeply unfair to me. Good for clear majorities in parliament, bad for actual representation.)
 

Masquerader

Banned
Nov 4, 2017
1,383
It's kinda crazy that "voting for the nationalists" is considered a good(?) thing in this specific constellation?

Yeah, we in Ireland often use the term Republican instead.

... Which if you're from the USA is also a crazy term. ;p

But yeah, the Irish and Scottish Nationalists are generally very left-wing and utterly despite England because it's clearly very right-wing.
 

.exe

Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,241
We are stuck with this cunt and his cronies for the next few years. No joke the only hope we have is the US electing somebody left wing who spits in his face as he seems to be using the US as his crutch for trade deals.

Even a left leaning candidate will succumb to letting the businesses that bankroll their campaigns eat your public services down to the last scrap. Especially if they pick a clown like Biden. I doubt Sanders gets the nom.