UK General Election 12th December 2019 |OT1| Hindsight is 20/19 (exits point to Tory majority

Blent

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,170
East Midlands, England, UK
I mean, if we're just talking bare facts, they did just accept about 30 Conservative MPs into their party, which means that literally the majority of their MPs are conservative.
Well, if we're 'just talking bare facts', then it's kind of important to, um, use actual facts.

This year, eight MPs defected to the Lib Dems:
- Three who began the year as Labour MPs
- Five who began the year as Tory MPs
- Four of the eight came via ChangeUK
- And one Lib Dem MP resigned the whip in 2018 but asked for it back in October

That meant the Lib Dems went from 12 MPs to 20 MPs by the time Parliament was dissolved the most recent time.

EDIT: It's important that I point out I have a lot of reservations about the Lib Dems and Jo Swinson and will not be voting for them. There are plenty of reasons to criticise them, but to claim that Conservatives make up the majority of their MPs is plain untrue.
 

astro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,890
The sheer amount of people clearly voting Tory just to stick it to "the left" is terrifying. People who Boris and his ilk have outright expressed utter disdain for, people who have had hardships forced upon them via austerity.

I mean, this is nothing new. Ignorant hate has been the right's catalyst and foundation for as long as I can remember, but seeing it happen in real time across social media... seeing the righteous fury of their ignorance... it makes me feel utterly hopeless.

Still, going to help canvass and do what I can, but so many people are too far gone, and they have the numbers.
 

Arkestry

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,369
London
Well, if we're 'just talking bare facts', then it's kind of important to, um, use actual facts.

This year, eight MPs defected to the Lib Dems:
- Three who began the year as Labour MPs
- Five who began the year as Tory MPs
- Four of the eight came via ChangeUK
- And one Lib Dem MP resigned the whip in 2018 but asked for it back in October

That meant the Lib Dems went from 12 MPs to 20 MPs by the time Parliament was dissolved the most recent time.

EDIT: It's important that I point out I have a lot of reservations about the Lib Dems and Jo Swinson and will not be voting for them. There are plenty of reasons to criticise them, but to claim that Conservatives make up the majority of their MPs is plain untrue.
Bleh, my bad, I think I conflated the amount of tories that left the conservatives with those that joined the lib dems. I knew it was more Tory than Labour, but yeah, definitely got that one wrong.
 

jelly

Member
Oct 26, 2017
11,429
I've read people say the other Miilaband would have won because Ed came across as weak and try hard but then you could say Brown didn't get it any different although there is an awful similarity in them trying to be tough, likeable instead of normal. Media plays a huge part but their PR teams were complete shit. See Millaband now as down to earth, easy going and funny along with Brown being a voice of reason to most people.

It's just staggering how the Tories are almost untouchable when it's 50 times the gaffes, lies and mistakes. Media helps there, hate helps too.
 

kradical

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,036
It's hardy controversial or out there to suggest the Lib Dems are shifting to the right to try and occupy the one-nation Cameron Conservative position vacated by the Tories as they continue to go full fash
 

Dirtyshubb

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,680
Another great momentum video I especially love the Mogg laying down visual comparison which is pretty smart.
 

Timmm

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,940
Manchester, UK
Ok, so the Greens are basically Labours?

One thing is to work with what you have, another is try to make everything work with that rule
For all intents and purposes, yes. Green MPs are overwhelmingly likely to side with Labour in any coalition or specific issues than they are with the Tories. It wouldn't be stupid for a Tory supporter to not support the Green's precisely for this reason.

FPTP systems hand basically all power to the victor. If the Lib Dems are more likely to put the Tories in government then they calling them "Yellow Tories" is accurate

You will notice that none of the left wing posters here call the SNP "Yellow Tories". This isn't just about being against Labour and you are being deliberately obtuse by pretending it is
 

iapetus

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,617
Well yes, that is a consequence of the electoral system we have. Unfortunately we can't just ignore it and use one that is fairer
Well, we did have the option to, but in a shitty referendum where the result was swung by misinformation in the press we chose not to. Reminds me of something else, somehow...
 

Ravensmash

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,451
Not going to lie, if I lived in a safe Labour/Lib Dems seat (e.g. if our local MP stood on a platform that I broadly supported) then I’d vote Green more often to express support for some of their ideas.

Unfortunately my voting is all about trying to reduce an increasing majority.
 

Dary

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,470
The English Wilderness
The sheer amount of people clearly voting Tory just to stick it to "the left" is terrifying. People who Boris and his ilk have outright expressed utter disdain for, people who have had hardships forced upon them via austerity.

I mean, this is nothing new. Ignorant hate has been the right's catalyst and foundation for as long as I can remember, but seeing it happen in real time across social media... seeing the righteous fury of their ignorance... it makes me feel utterly hopeless.

Still, going to help canvass and do what I can, but so many people are too far gone, and they have the numbers.
It's disconcerting how ingrained it is. I've said for the longest time that you can see the patterns of society at large in your average high school, and certainly, growing up in the Nineties, there was plenty of those attitudes around the proverbial playground :S
 

Kalor

Resettlement Advisor
Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,944
Holy shit that interview. She's constantly one word away from being even more racist than she already is.
 

Ruddles

Member
Oct 17, 2018
52
Until Swinson proves otherwise, she resembles [a tory] one a hell of a lot.
I can understand why some people feel that LibDems are just yellow tories, especially after the Coalition years. But I am genuinely scared that people in key marginals will think that and gift the Tory bastards free seats.

If you compare the manifestos, they are very very different. The Actual Conservatives want Brexit, the harder the better, which will no doubt fuck with the entire economy. The LibDems want to remain. The Actual Conservatives want lower tax for their buddies. The LibDems want to put 1p on all income tax bands, tax frequent flyers, etc, to pay for better NHS and according to the IFS have the best funded manifesto. The Actual Conservatives love Donald Trump. Jo Swinson hates him. The Actual Conservatives loathe the LGBTQIA community and BoJo is happy using slurs against them. The LibDems have a manifesto commitment to completely reform the Gender Recognition Act to recognise non-binary gender identities. It might not be as progressive as it should be, but it’s NOT a Tory manifesto.

If you’re in a seat where labour can win, vote labour! Corbyn all the way! But if you’re in a seat like Guildford like me where the LibDems are just 5 points behind the Tories based on the MRP poll, then please please think about voting LibDem. The manifestos are completely different and you’ll be doing your bit to deprive BoJo of another seat. Just hold your nose and think of the greater good!
 

Acorn

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,675
Scotland
Really admire the bravery of the dad coming forward to talk about how the tragedy is being exploited by politicians. He's probably gonna be bombarded with shit from some of the worst scum on the planet.
 

Flammable D

Member
Oct 30, 2017
13,435
This Guardian podcast about the first women journalists and MPs is entirely uncritical of Nancy Astor, as was their article, and completely steps over the Sinn Fein MP elected before her


Boris and May also getting no blowback for unveiling a statue of an anti semite 🤔🤔🤔
 

Rodelero

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,160
Really admire the bravery of the dad coming forward to talk about how the tragedy is being exploited by politicians. He's probably gonna be bombarded with shit from some of the worst scum on the planet.
The media will just both sides it. It will be Yvette Cooper's fault and Boris Johnson's fault equally. Somehow.
 

Git

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,005
This Guardian podcast about the first women journalists and MPs is entirely uncritical of Nancy Astor, as was their article, and completely steps over the Sinn Fein MP elected before her


Boris and May also getting no blowback for unveiling a statue of an anti semite 🤔🤔🤔
The Guardian is full of terfs so this doesn't surprise me. What's an acronym for nazi feminist. Like an actual one, not y'know the right wing chud phrase for feminists generally.
 

Beefy

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,367
I can understand why some people feel that LibDems are just yellow tories, especially after the Coalition years. But I am genuinely scared that people in key marginals will think that and gift the Tory bastards free seats.

If you compare the manifestos, they are very very different. The Actual Conservatives want Brexit, the harder the better, which will no doubt fuck with the entire economy. The LibDems want to remain. The Actual Conservatives want lower tax for their buddies. The LibDems want to put 1p on all income tax bands, tax frequent flyers, etc, to pay for better NHS and according to the IFS have the best funded manifesto. The Actual Conservatives love Donald Trump. Jo Swinson hates him. The Actual Conservatives loathe the LGBTQIA community and BoJo is happy using slurs against them. The LibDems have a manifesto commitment to completely reform the Gender Recognition Act to recognise non-binary gender identities. It might not be as progressive as it should be, but it’s NOT a Tory manifesto.

If you’re in a seat where labour can win, vote labour! Corbyn all the way! But if you’re in a seat like Guildford like me where the LibDems are just 5 points behind the Tories based on the MRP poll, then please please think about voting LibDem. The manifestos are completely different and you’ll be doing your bit to deprive BoJo of another seat. Just hold your nose and think of the greater good!
Being a Jamaican, Windrush effected people close to me. As it was the coalition that start it all and the Libs sat by and did nothing. I can not vote for the Libs until the people that are still in the party from then are gone.
 

Ruddles

Member
Oct 17, 2018
52
Being a Jamaican, Windrush effected people close to me. As it was the coalition that start it all and the Libs sat by and did nothing. I can not vote for the Libs until the people that are still in the party from then are gone.
I can understand why you feel that way. I’d feel the same if our positions were reversed. Hope you can understand why I’m going to cast my vote for the LibDems locally (Guildford); it’s my only chance to help deprive the Tory bastards of at least one seat.
 

Ogs

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,913
Lib Dems will you save some fucking tree's and stop dumping your shite through my door. I've had about 8 leaflets now, not a single 1 from any other party.
 

Protome

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,550
Lib Dems will you save some fucking tree's and stop dumping your shite through my door. I've had about 8 leaflets now, not a single 1 from any other party.
Yooo i'm glad this isn't just in my area (unless you're also from Edinburgh lol.) I've been getting two leaflets through my door almost every weekday from the lib dems. Nothing from anyone else.
 

Ravensmash

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,451
Yooo i'm glad this isn't just in my area (unless you're also from Edinburgh lol.) I've been getting two leaflets through my door almost every weekday from the lib dems. Nothing from anyone else.
I’ve only had the one leaflet so far - and it’s from the Lib Dem’s.

Tories round here I can understand, as they’re going to win regardless.

Disappointed to see nothing from the Labour candidate yet.