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UK General Election 12th December 2019 |OT1| Hindsight is 20/19 (Tory majority confirmed)

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Max Quordlepleen

Max Quordlepleen

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
160
Dabanton said:
For Labour to win that election.

Blair had to go and kiss the ring of all the right wing press barons, he even flew out to meet Rupert Murdoch personally so Murdoch could look him in the eye.

Without the UK press barons say so any leader is screwed.

Doesn't help when so called left wing press is complicit in keeping the status quo going.

Yes a full socialism led policy plan is untenable, but man the power of the press and an vastly under educated political populace is just as devastating.
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Well except for the Iraq war (and that is a big fucking except for, but I don't know how much the UK press barons were driving that decision), who has done more to achieve economic equality, Blair or Corbyn? Or another question, would you rather have Johnson or Blair? Is it nice that all the ring kissing is necessary? No of course not, but we also can't pretend politics is exponentially much nobler than any other aspect of life.
 

Ravensmash

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,797
Was saying to a friend earlier - at least the Brexit gammons will have a wake up in a month or two when they realise it's far from over.

Cunts.
 
HotHamWater

HotHamWater

Member
Oct 25, 2017
682
Dorset, UK
Went out for some Christmas shopping and decided to have a nice hog roast from the market when I was done.

Came back, walked the dog and turned the TV on. Exit poll enters my body and causes a potentially terminal case of hot snakes (100% wasn't the roast because it tasted good, thats how that works).

FUCKING DR MODERATE.

We are fucked. Fucked for at least 5 years, probably a great deal more because we'll be leaving the EU. Then, after 5 years, assuming the Tories get the boot (lol) whoever gets in will have to spend a fucking fortune fixing all the bullshit they'll have done, and they'll lose the next election because of that. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck.
 
DIE BART DIE

DIE BART DIE

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,845
FrakEarth said:
C'mon - bollocks. David would have been an easy a scalp as Ed with Blair and Brown fresh in the public mind. Have you not been paying attention? The media would (and will) set out to destroy whoever the Labour leader is.
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Different world back then. The fact that he looked vaguely Prime Ministerial would have been enough for the morons of this country. I'm from Stoke-on-Trent, trust me.
 
nelsonroyale

nelsonroyale

Member
Oct 28, 2017
12,124
Uzzy said:
Westminster is the sole arbiter of the issue. Holyrood does not legally have the power to hold an independence referendum, that power is reserved and would need to be transferred from Westminster to Holyrood under Section 30 of the Scotland Act 1998. That doesn't happen unless Westminster OKs it. Which Boris won't.
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I mean that assumes that we are just going to follow the rules. The SNP is looking for support from Europe. If European countries are willing to recognise Scotland, I think the party will call for a referendum regardless of the UK Parliament and then things will get messy. Which I am prepared to accept.

However, the independence movement is much more than just the SNP. Again, I don't personally think we should just obey the roles. Why not challenge then when they are skewed against you? Why should Westminister have the authority to be the abriter and why should that be accepted? I mean I know it ultimately comes down to power dynamics rather than law.
 
travisbickle

travisbickle

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,953
If young people didn't go out and vote it's their fault there's no future in the UK. The most radical thing in the Tory manifesto is covering potholes, just stuck in the last century because working internet for all was too impossible!
 
JadeGiveTwoRides

JadeGiveTwoRides

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
767
Dabanton said:
For Labour to win that election.

Blair had to go and kiss the ring of all the right wing press barons, he even flew out to meet Rupert Murdoch personally so Murdoch could look him in the eye.

Without the UK press barons say so any leader is screwed.
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Not true. Labour had massive poll leads for over 4 years before Blair went to Murdoch; they were winning 1997 no matter who was leader and no matter what the press said. He sold out for a couple more %.
 
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Uzzy

Uzzy

Gabe’s little helper
Member
Oct 25, 2017
27,085
Hull, UK
nelsonroyale said:
I mean that assumes that we are just going to follow the rules. The SNP is looking for support from Europe. If European countries are willing to recognise Scotland, I think the party will call for a referendum regardless of the UK Parliament and then things will get messy. Which I am prepared to accept.

However, the independence movement is much more than just the SNP. Again, I don't personally think we should just obey the roles. Why not challenge then when they are skewed against you? Why should Westminister have the authority to be the abriter and why should that be accepted? I mean I know it ultimately comes down to power dynamics rather than law.
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No one is going to recognise an unlawful referendum or unilateral declaration of independence. Certainly not in Europe, where there are issues with that already. Look at what happened to Catalonia.

I actually have immense sympathy with the SNP's position, and would agree that the political argument for independence has grown quite a lot in recent years. But that won't change the legal reality.
 
Faddy

Faddy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,133
Principate said:
I do think David would have done better though I know a number of tory voters that would have voted for him.
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The right wing press would have run the exact same bullshit about his dad to undermine his Britishness.

The only reason Blair got the Press approval is because Major was on the left of the Tory party and fucked all their favourite right wingers Eurosceptics over Maastricht.
 
Lashley

Lashley

<<Tag Here>>
Member
Oct 25, 2017
59,918
travisbickle said:
If young people didn't go out and vote it's their fault there's no future in the UK. The most radical thing in the Tory manifesto is covering potholes, just stuck in the last century because working internet for all was too impossible!
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Young people need to vote, but I doubt it would've made much difference.
 
tulpa

tulpa

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
3,878
JediTimeBoy said:


What does he say at 0:27 ?!? I want to hear if you heard what I did.
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it's funny that for all the talk of the nastiness and Stalinist tendencies of Momentum, it's not really true. look how nasty the New Labour faction is and how ruthless it can be in demanding the people who disagree with them kicked out. imagine if the leadership had been this unpleasant about the right of the party as Johnson is being in this clip. New Labour has more of a Stalinist streak than the peacenik Corbynites. funny, too, that he attacks student politics, Trots and the rest in that clip. half of New Labour (including Blair and Mandelson) were from that student Trotskyite/Eurocommunist background
 
Masquerader

Masquerader

Banned
Nov 4, 2017
1,383
nelsonroyale said:
I mean that assumes that we are just going to follow the rules. The SNP is looking for support from Europe. If European countries are willing to recognise Scotland, I think the party will call for a referendum regardless of the UK Parliament and then things will get messy. Which I am prepared to accept.

However, the independence movement is much more than just the SNP. Again, I don't personally think we should just obey the roles. Why not challenge then when they are skewed against you? Why should Westminister have the authority to be the abriter and why should that be accepted? I mean I know it ultimately comes down to power dynamics rather than law.
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Excellent post, couldn't have said it better.

The SNP absolutely should call a referendum of their own if Westminster doesn't allow it. It's the only fair way if they win for the third time in a row... SINCE the first referendum.
 
Principate

Principate

Member
Oct 31, 2017
11,186
Faddy said:
The right wing press would have run the exact same bullshit about his dad to undermine his Britishness.

The only reason Blair got the Press approval is because Major was on the left of the Tory party and fucked all their favourite right wingers Eurosceptics over Maastricht.
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I'm not saying they wouldn't but I think he would have done better in in-spite of that. Politics at it's core is a popularity contest and between the two brothers we all know which would likely do better in a popularity contest.
 
The Albatross

The Albatross

Member
Oct 25, 2017
38,958
Seeing that conservatives are gaining a strong majority? Im surprised, but probably missed something living stateside. Didn't think Boris Johnson was going to add seats.
 
nelsonroyale

nelsonroyale

Member
Oct 28, 2017
12,124
Uzzy said:
No one is going to recognise an unlawful referendum or unilateral declaration of independence. Certainly not in Europe, where there are issues with that already. Look at what happened to Catalonia.

I actually have immense sympathy with the SNP's position, and would agree that the political argument for independence has grown quite a lot in recent years. But that won't change the legal reality.
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I would agrue that there are differences with Catalonia. Both from a historical position but also in terms of Scotland being far more recognised at a European level than Catalonia is. I don't deny things might go that way, but I think the status quo is untenable. And also, part of the issue is that as a populace we are just too fucking comatose. I suppose we have been bought over by materialism, but still...Its sad that we keep on making the same kinds of mistakes thinking deep problems can be solved by vacuous sound bites and cynical mis direction. I mean to me it is super obvious, but that doesn't seem the way for many...
 
Ando

Ando

Member
Apr 21, 2018
744
labour are getting so wholly hammered in the north, midlands and wales there might be some weird results in london/remain areas for them to get to 190....or the exit poll could be generous :/
 
Protome

Protome

Member
Oct 27, 2017
15,677
Audioboxer said:
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I wish this was an actual possibility. It's clear that the Union is a lost cause.

nelsonroyale said:
I would agrue that there are differences with Catalonia. Both from a historical position but also in terms of Scotland being far more recognised at a European level than Catalonia is. I don't deny things might go that way, but I think the status quo is untenable. And also, part of the issue is that as a populace we are just too fucking comatose. I suppose we have been bought over by materialism, but still...Its sad that we keep on making the same kinds of mistakes thinking deep problems can be solved by vacuous sound bites and cynical mis direction. I mean to me it is super obvious, but that doesn't seem the way for many...
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It only takes one Veto to keep Scotland out the EU and it'd definitely happen if we didn't have proper approval for an indyref.
 
Masquerader

Masquerader

Banned
Nov 4, 2017
1,383
kharma45 said:
They'll stay on the same number of seats. They're going to lose Foyle and gain NB.

DUP will be down but still be the biggest party.
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Eh, Foyle is very much competitive. Even though Colum Eastwood may undeservedly win it. Then again, North Belfast could have the same outcome against us too.

I can see a path to Sinn Féin gaining a seat and the DUP losing two so yanno, it's possible. I'm hoping for it~

Kaitos said:
It's possible that there will be more Nationalist than Unionist parties tho.
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Also this. We'd have gone to one "neutral" MP, 9 Nationalists, and 8 Unionists.
 
Faddy

Faddy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,133
The Albatross said:
Seeing that conservatives are gaining a strong majority? Im surprised, but probably missed something living stateside. Didn't think Boris Johnson was going to add seats.
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Brexit basically.

Labour are on track to lose every seat that vote 55%+ for Brexit.

The 2nd referendum pledge killed Labour imo.

Looking back now it would have been more politically expedient to pass Theresa May's deal.
 
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