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theaface

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,149
I just can't even. Oliver Dowden is a terrible MP and a terrible person.

Amen. Holly, the Labour candidate seemed a thoroughly decent and sincere person - too good for the likes around here. I had to watch with despair as my fellow Jewish constituents spewed vitriol at her for being a traitor by being Jewish and a Labour candidate. All the while Dowden continues to do precisely fuck all for the benefit of anyone.
 

Kyuuji

The Favonius Fox
Member
Nov 8, 2017
32,044
Waking up to despair. Partner is a nurse in the NHS and we can't move away from where we are due to her father's illness. Looking to start a family end of next year. Feel absolutely fucked. Stuck on some small shithole rock full of angry old cunts willing to cut off every appendage they have to avoid seeing someone that isn't white.
 

Lastbroadcast

Member
Jul 6, 2018
1,938
Sydney, Australia
Watching from Australia I couldn't help but notice a number of parallels with our own election earlier this year (and the US election).

The progressive middle classes and most of the working classes in big cities are still prepared to vote for the centre left.

In towns already left behind by neoliberalism and de-industrialisation, or in towns that are likely to face disruption from the move to a green economy - they are voting for right wing economic nationalists.

I know a lot of people here rankle when we talk about how we need to win back the so-called "white working classes", or blue collar rual voters, or small town America, or Workington man, or whatever new label we decide to give them.

Here's a hard fucking truth - if we continually lose more and more of these voters every year, the centre-left will never govern any western country ever again.
 

Deleted member 55689

User requested account closure
Banned
Apr 5, 2019
102
And Swinson. Especially Swinson. And if Labour didn't move more towards remain.
I've got a different view on the coalition to most because I believe a coalition is built upon compromise. I blame the tories for the rise in tuition fees for instance (and Labour before that obviously). But I don't hold that against parties in future elections. Every election should be based on manifestos that are put out and we need to stop with the character assassinations.
 

PJV3

Member
Oct 25, 2017
25,676
London
I think it's pretty unlikely the Labour party lurches right any time soon, the membership is not up for that all. Unfortunately, Corbyn has put the party in such a big hole that the next leader will probably lead the party to defeat and be discredited too.

I don't know, it doesn't feel like the 80s and the Thatcher machine crushing all before it, it feels like a marriage of convenience on a single issue and the labour party still fighting internally, some of those cunts really put the boot in when things started to turn in the polls.
 

Deleted member 862

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,646
pQ6QvtX.png


absolutle kick in the balls this. -1.5.
 

SMD

Member
Oct 28, 2017
6,341
Watching from Australia I couldn't help but notice a number of parallels with our own election earlier this year (and the US election).

The progressive middle classes and most of the working classes in big cities are still prepared to vote for the centre left.

In towns already left behind by neoliberalism and de-industrialisation, or in towns that are likely to face disruption from the move to a green economy - they are voting for right wing economic nationalists.

I know a lot of people here rankle when we talk about how we need to win back the so-called "white working classes".

Here's a hard fucking truth - if we continually lose more and more of them every year, the centre-left will never govern any western country ever again.

Okay so what's the plan, if they won't vote for policies that benefit them or people who reach out to them beyond 'fuck brown people' what do you want to do? Bearing in mind that if you shift over to the right, they'll just go even more extreme and beat you on that front.
 

Rangerx

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,492
Dangleberry
The media are absolutely complicit in the Tory victory. The bigwigs at the BBC and the paymasters of the private media didn't want to see a labour manifesto implemented that improved ordinary people's lives and that would hit them and their friends in their pockets. You would have to have had your head completely up your arse for the last three years to miss the constant smears and attacks on Corbyn.

People voting to villify immigrants and throw the doors open to unencumbered capitalism so they can have their precious brexit is completely morally bankrupt. They should be fucking ashamed.
 

Deleted member 38573

User requested account closure
Banned
Jan 17, 2018
3,902
I think if you guys are sure it's not the policies then fine but you absolutely cannot just blame 'the media' and Brexit, that's a sure fire route to another defeat in 5 years.

There will always be a 'Brexit' in an election
, a topic the right can point to and say it's more important than social justice and inequality, always, until the end of time. And a fair proportion of the people will say that's why they voted Tory but the truth will be they don't think we need more social justice or equality, and these results prove that's not just people doing well, it's also people who are struggling.

If Labour wants to be on the left it has to do a lot more outside of the campaign window to convince people that they need what the left is offering, and it BADLY needs to happen outside towns and cities. That this Labour leadership hasn't even convinced people who would directly benefit from their polices to vote for them...it's shameful, no matter what the media is saying, what the other leaders are saying, they've done a bad job.

Hard disagree for the both underlined points. But yes, outside of election season we need more boots on the ground to counteract the billionaire owned press.
 

Eoin

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,103
Yes of course. Interesting that it used to be common. It seems impossible to me nowadays but I guess that is the caused by the change in the media and the rise in social media? I couldn't imagine the tories having this result with May still in power.
I think the primary cause isn't the media (directly, at least), but instead the growth of the Labour party into a party that realistically expects to win elections and form governments (and the parallel perception that an election that they don't win is a failure).

This is new-ish. Previously Labour leaders weren't expected to win elections as a condition of staying in their jobs. You can see that as recently as Kinnock, who was leader from 1983 until 1992 and lost two elections (he resigned after the second defeat, as he had been expected to win that one).

We also see this with other parties - the smaller parties don't tend to change leader as often because perceptions of their successes and failures are quite different.
 

Masquerader

Banned
Nov 4, 2017
1,383
Times they are a changing. Nigel Dodds gone which is mad.

Edit, first time in history but how many of those elections were actually fair?

1969's when boundary changes happened that generally considered to be "fair", and even then the population disparity between Unionist/Nationalist communities always resulted in explicitly Unionist MPs being elected, often hardliners. Also, SF got more votes than the DUP in 2010 but only 3 seats to the DUP's 9. Yanno. FTFP is never fair. XD
 

Temascos

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,504
I hope to fuck any anti-semetic elements in the Labour Party are now booted out on their ass, completely and beyond doubt.
 

lazygecko

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,628
I just have zero energy for people blaming Labour for being too left or Corbyn for being dislikable. The billionaires that own the BBC don't want to pay their taxes, so this would have been the result no matter who leads Labour.

The way I see it, it's on them for such dysmal results but it doesn't have much to do with any of those. They don't have any easy to understand narrative or vision of their own. They aren't being proactive in the slightest. At least not in any manner which is actually reaching through to people. They're purely reactionary to the agenda set by the far right in the political conversation. I can understand that the cards are stacked against them more than usual in the putrid British media landscape, but in the grand scheme of things it's not so different from the same trends elsewhere in Europe and NA. The mainstream "left" parties having gleefully participated in the neoliberal hegemony over the last 3 decades are reaping what they sowed.
 

His Majesty

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,171
Belgium
I think if you guys are sure it's not the policies then fine but you absolutely cannot just blame 'the media' and Brexit, that's a sure fire route to another defeat in 5 years.
Sure you can. Nearly all of the high circulation press is owned by billionaire moghuls who don't like getting taxed. And the BBC didn't do a single thing to hold Tory politicians accountable for their many, many lies this election.

Note that I am an outsider and this was the first UK election I followed from close by. I am appalled at the state of the UK press, I haven't seen this in any other Western European democracy.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,430
That's the only way to get the message across to them, because you aren't getting full page ads in The Sun promoting socialism no matter how much money you spend.

Sorry but this is bullshit, people in rural England still interact with society, they aren't unreachable to the left because they don't listen to stormzy or read the guardian. You can't change their minds in 6 weeks before an election, you can over a longer period of time, you just have to find the right way to do it.
 

His Majesty

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,171
Belgium
My dream would be Wales kicking the English retirees out and forming a new union with Scotland and Northern Ireland, and going back to the EU while English stays behind sitting in their own shit.
Wales voted the Tories in. They were getting so much EU funding they didn't know what to do with it so opted for some good old austerity. This is as close as turkeys voting for Christmas as it gets.
 

Umbrella Carp

Banned
Jan 16, 2019
3,265
Sorry but this is bullshit, people in rural England still interact with society, they aren't unreachable to the left because they don't listen to stormzy or read the guardian. You can't change their minds in 6 weeks before an election, you can over a longer period of time, you just have to find the right way to do it.

The conservatives will have been in power for 15 years by the time of the next election. We're still hunting for that "right way to do it."
 

Deleted member 55689

User requested account closure
Banned
Apr 5, 2019
102
I hope to fuck any anti-semetic elements in the Labour Party are now booted out on their ass, completely and beyond doubt.
How can they when we're not actually given any examples of antisemitism? The biggest one seems to be criticism of Israel's actions recently but you can't expect someone like Corbyn not to criticise that considering his history.
 

Masquerader

Banned
Nov 4, 2017
1,383
Sorry but this is bullshit, people in rural England still interact with society, they aren't unreachable to the left because they don't listen to stormzy or read the guardian. You can't change their minds in 6 weeks before an election, you can over a longer period of time, you just have to find the right way to do it.

I'm sure this is what some people on the left in the USA thought about rural voters once. Maybe it had some credence then. But I think they're functionally a lost cause now.
 

Deleted member 20630

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
1,406
Wales voted the Tories in. They were getting so much EU funding they didn't know what to do with it so opted for some good old austerity. This is as close as turkeys voting for Christmas as it gets.

I was asking for some more evidence to this point earlier, but didn't get any. The only thing I recall getting was someone repeating what I already thought, which is that there are a lot of English people in Wales using the country as a retirement home. Do actual Welsh people hardline vote Tories usually?

Also there's still this I posted earlier: https://www.bbc.com/news/election-2019-50766203

Which shows that labour lost seats and tories gained, but overall labour still has the majority of seats there.
 

Lastbroadcast

Member
Jul 6, 2018
1,938
Sydney, Australia
Okay so what's the plan, if they won't vote for policies that benefit them or people who reach out to them beyond 'fuck brown people' what do you want to do? Bearing in mind that if you shift over to the right, they'll just go even more extreme and beat you on that front.

Here's one problem I see straight away: you used the word "them".

And why do you assume they all want to say "fuck you" to brown people? Sure, some do, but we can ignore those ones and focus on the others.

Political manifestos shouldn't be written for the working class, they should be written BY the working class.

If Corbynism and New Labour had only one thing in common, it was this: both the 1997 and 2019 manifestos gave off an image that they had been written by inner city cosmopolitan elites.... because that's exactly who wrote them.

The second referendum was a classic example - that policy wasn't cooked up by a voter in Sunderland, it was cooked up by some dickhead in London who didn't want to accept the result. What happened? The working class voters simply just said "why didn't you fuckers respect our brexit vote in the first place?", and voted Tory.

A good start might be to simply ask these people "where do you want to see your town economically in ten years?", get rid of any racist crap, and go from there. Bring some of them into the economic discussion about what they want.
 
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TonyMartial11

Banned
Mar 5, 2019
139
Time to build a wall around Sheffield.....that red wall coming down is some GOT shit.
Winterfell will never fall :'(

To continue the Tv/movie references....I think we in the UK need to take this as our Infinity War, the thanos click moment.....and just be patient for end war
 

Kyuuji

The Favonius Fox
Member
Nov 8, 2017
32,044
Also look forward to a bright future of tory rags emboldened to spew more transphobia from their pages/articles over the coming decade+. Woo the 2020's... more like roll on the 2030's when we might actually start to see some bright clouds again.
 

CD_93

Member
Dec 12, 2017
2,988
Lancashire, United Kingdom
Never forget what they did. They don't deserve that.

www.thelondoneconomic.com

Jeremy Corbyn is the most smeared politician in history

Jeremy Corbyn has been subject to the longest continuous smear campaign in history. We ask how much are all of us are influenced by the negative headlines.

I retreat within the walls of my Blackburn fortress, enemies on all sides, and hope that sometime in the future there will be some justice for this day.
 

SpaceCrystal

Banned
Apr 1, 2019
7,714
I sympathize with all UK'ers who didn't want this shit happening.

IMO, maybe everyone in the UK who hates this needs to start a revolution against their government like the citizens of Hong Kong & South Korea did, or move to either Northern Ireland or Scotland. It'll be the only way to send a message that corrupted, right-wing bullshit won't be tolerated.
 

His Majesty

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,171
Belgium
I was asking for some more evidence to this point earlier, but didn't get any. The only thing I recall getting was someone repeating what I already thought, which is that there are a lot of English people in Wales using the country as a retirement home. Do actual Welsh people hardline vote Tories usually?

Also there's still this I posted earlier: https://www.bbc.com/news/election-2019-50766203

Which shows that labour lost seats and tories gained, but overall labour still has the majority of seats there.
Wales is a relatively poor region and receives a lot of EU funding. Together with Cornwall they are the only region to be classified as a 'less developed region' by the EU in the UK hence they qualify for Objective One funding. Historically the region has massively voted Labour. However Wales also voted for Brexit and the Tories have made a lot of gains there this election.

 

Kromeo

Member
Oct 27, 2017
17,831
Never forget what they did. They don't deserve that.

www.thelondoneconomic.com

Jeremy Corbyn is the most smeared politician in history

Jeremy Corbyn has been subject to the longest continuous smear campaign in history. We ask how much are all of us are influenced by the negative headlines.

It was always going to happen though, it was obvious he stood no chance of winning even before the labour election race and people were in denial about that. Boris has run the worst election campaign I've ever seen from a leader in my lifetime and he's been rewarded with the biggest majority since Thatcher

Not that I think any Labour leader could have won, brexit made it an imposible position
 

Pixieking

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,956
A good start might be to simply ask these people "where do you want to see your town economically in ten years?", get rid of any racist crap, and go from there.
Assumes there's anything other than racist crap. How long have people complained about EU migrant workers stealing "their" jobs, for example? In a very real way, large portions of the UK are straight-up xenophobic when it comes to employment and the economy.
 

Deleted member 20630

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
1,406
I'm sure this is what some people on the left in the USA thought about rural voters once. Maybe it had some credence then. But I think they're functionally a lost cause now.

I don't think they're necessarily a lost cause, but the propaganda apparatus that the right and center-right have at their disposal make it far more difficult to reach them. North America and Europe have spent nearly a century trying to smother any leftist movement by all means necessary, including through the use of constant propaganda about how the left is evil incarnate.

We're going to lose and suffer a lot before we reach more people, but it's important to keep pushing forward. I don't expect every person to slam their heads against every brick wall of a person, but we definitely shouldn't be discouraging anyone from doing it either.
 
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