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UK General Election 12th December 2019 |OT1| Hindsight is 20/19 (Tory majority confirmed)
- Thread starter Uzzy
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Bitterly disappointed. Proud how Scotland voted. Our two SNP votes were not enough to dislodge our Scottish Tory in West Aberdeenshire unfortunately. I have hope for a second IndyRef, but I can't see how it will be obtained with Boris promising to prevent another one being held.
Responsible? That's kind of loaded. They certainly share some of the blame. It'd be silly to suggest otherwise. The question is, how much blame do they deserve? Is it sufficient to wish to throw the baby out with the bathwater? I don't think so, but they also just played a non-trivial role in an election that will result in a lot of suffering so even though I disagree with the person you're responding to, I'm not gonna judge them too harshly for being heated right now.
Labour don't have to lurch rightwards but what they're doing isn't working. You can't win just by appealing to the London demographic. Traditional support has been slipping away since before Brexit split the vote.
As Johnson conceded in his speech, many of the labour seats that went blue have just been 'lent' to the conservatives, Labour will get them back. But they have to ditch Corbyn and they have to rethink their national strategy.
As Johnson conceded in his speech, many of the labour seats that went blue have just been 'lent' to the conservatives, Labour will get them back. But they have to ditch Corbyn and they have to rethink their national strategy.
Don't count on it. They'll be bringing him on to run with "I told you so" until his dying day.
I think the party need to get Keir Starmer in asap. The next year is still going to be dominated by brexit and he knows it better than anyone as well as being a favourite for the job anyway.
I don't think the party need to lurch right either. The next election is going to look totally different.
His smug grinning cunt face will be all over the BBC the day Brexit happens
I like Corbyn but he should have passed the baton on a year ago, just too much baggage that made him an easy target for opponents in and out of the party.
But there is no point rushing to replace him now, Boris is in for a full term and god knows what the country will need doing by the time he is finished with it.
But there is no point rushing to replace him now, Boris is in for a full term and god knows what the country will need doing by the time he is finished with it.
He said he's going to campaign for constitutional reform next (such as ditching the House of Lords), so expect to see him for many years to come.
is there a side story to this? Or was he banned because he admitted being a conservative? Seriously asking.
Keir Stammer would be my choice for Labour leader as well. But any Labour leader will have a very difficult task to pick up the pieces. I can easily see the Tories winning the next election as well.
It doesn't help that only around 52% of registered voters voted.
Absolutely no chance - His new agenda will be to hold the government to account on any trade deals and negotiations they make, once they open up any sort of immigration as part of a trade deal he'll be registering the new party immediately.
Thanks. Shame to hear about the direction they're sliding towards. Hopefully my Welsh friends can relocate to Scotland and jump ship with the Scots.
I'm not white middle aged working class, so yes, I said them. I'm not stupid, I know my situation isn't the same as them and why should it? It's like expecting the white middle aged working class to be able to empathise with POCs. But the bare minimum I expect is that society will try to also think about minorities, which doesn't happen. They don't give a fuck.
If the UK votes to stab itself in the foot, is it sensible to run on a platform of "we will immediately stab ourselves in the foot if elected"? Yes, leave won the referendum and I'm not going to go over that again because somehow a non binding vague referendum result became gospel, but Johnson didn't bring anything other than 'get Brexit done' to the table. What the fuck is wrong with negotiating a better deal then putting it to the people? How is this something cooked up by some dickhead in London?
It's easy to go "why didn't you fuckers respect our Brexit vote in the first place" when there isn't one fucking answer. By being vague about what it is, it means that the Tories are being just as mendacious.
If the argument is that the Labour Party should try the same bait and switch tactics as the Tories to get in power then I don't want to vote for that leadership.
"Where do you want to see your town economically in ten years" what sort of question is that? If someone answers "yeah I want to torpedo the local economy just to get the browns out" is that something you want to take on board?
I don't care if Sunderland voted Tory because they promised to clamp down on minorities and the poor, you don't entertain that notion because you're pandering to fascism. You look at the underlying issues, which is lack of job opportunities, lack of investment and lack of infrastructure and address them.
Labour did, the Tories didn't.
Some of you have to accept that your dickhead voter in Sunderland is a fascist Little Englander and some of those dickheads in London are people of colour who now don't feel welcome in their own country. It's funny how no one ever thinks about us. No one ever talks about minorities because our vote doesn't matter. The closest it came in this election is the stoking of Hindu nationalism by the Tories, which should give you your answer about the notion of policies being out of touch.
Nope.
He was on one of the election shows last night saying that he was considering a new party once Brexit is complete, all about reform.
Lol you'll see hell freeze before the English start a revolution over anything
Given the palpable concern shown during the election campaign against the left, I assume Tory voters will now scrutinise and challenge intolerance in their newly elected Conservative MPs and party members? For example the two candidates (now elected representatives) who as of yesterday were still under party investigation for antisemitism, and Johnson's own father who was booed and heckled during the election coverage on C4 last night for his outright islamophobia?
I assume when Conservative manifesto promises regarding nurses, hospitals, policing, etc either a) turn out to be untrue, or b) costs billions more than forecast causing another cycle of austerity, local MPs will be challenged by their electorate, and Johnson will be pilloried across the press?
I take it those who voted Tory under the premise that we would be out of Europe, done and dusted, by the end of January will focus their ire on Johnson and co when we're still negotiating trade arrangements well into the new decade?
I assume when Conservative manifesto promises regarding nurses, hospitals, policing, etc either a) turn out to be untrue, or b) costs billions more than forecast causing another cycle of austerity, local MPs will be challenged by their electorate, and Johnson will be pilloried across the press?
I take it those who voted Tory under the premise that we would be out of Europe, done and dusted, by the end of January will focus their ire on Johnson and co when we're still negotiating trade arrangements well into the new decade?
I'm not going to engage in the aftermath of the disaster here as it's frankly too depressing and I need to start planning how my family and I GTFO. I will however say this.
A collective and never ending, "Fuck off!" to anyone who lays this at the feet of anyone other than the people who voted Tory. It is not a politician's job to trick you into voting for your own interests and they can't be blamed for 'not being convincing enough'. If the facts are laid before you, as they were in this case, it is the voter's responsibility to look at the evidence available and decide for themselves.
Sincere best of luck to Scotland and Ireland in their struggle for independence, it is clear that they are culturally (and politically) distinct from England and should be treated as such.
A collective and never ending, "Fuck off!" to anyone who lays this at the feet of anyone other than the people who voted Tory. It is not a politician's job to trick you into voting for your own interests and they can't be blamed for 'not being convincing enough'. If the facts are laid before you, as they were in this case, it is the voter's responsibility to look at the evidence available and decide for themselves.
Sincere best of luck to Scotland and Ireland in their struggle for independence, it is clear that they are culturally (and politically) distinct from England and should be treated as such.
Instead of "assuming", maybe you should go out and speak to these people?
This is why comments like "the deplorables" are just so counter-productive - because it tars everyone with the same brush. NO town or city is homogenous in its views and attitudes. But people tend to close ranks if you do that, even the ones who might be sympathetic to you.
Look - I get it. I have doorknocked in marginal seats for Labour in Australia, and I've had some rather... how can we say... "unpleasant" conversations.
But you know what? The ones I have unpleasant conversations with, even in a right wing area, are not the majority. The overwhelming majority of people just want to talk about how you are going to make their lives better - how to bring jobs, fix their schools... even to just fix a local pothole in the street.
You'd see this for yourself if you got out of your echo chambers and went out and knocked on doors.
He could barely keep his troops in line for this election, brexit done and he is done, half his party have what they want on tax haven rules etc, he will never get that support again.
yeah but they've been saying it for a while.
the real trick now is going to be finding a leader that isn't despised on the doorstep and someone people will actually go knock doors for.
If Labour can do that it will be alright. They've never had so many members and volunteers but will they stick around? I hope so.
The Guardian have spent almost 5 years banging on about how crap and unviable he is from the leadership campaign, signal boosting all the smears and a steady stream of opinion pieces about how he has to go.
They're as culpable as the rest of the media and I wouldn't be sad to see them go. Aside from David Conn, they can all fuck off as far as I'm concerned.
Yes, because if Boris promises something, he's known for holding fast to his promises. Come the next election, Scotland will provide an almost guaranteed 50 seats towards a progressive coalition. I can promise you that Boris is already working on how to get Scottish independence without taking the blame for it.
Share of the blame for what? What do you think they need to apologise for?
Unionists got a reality check. The English don't give a damn about NI.
People were like that in London as well, it does wear off, he's actually going to make decisions and choices frome now on, not being able to do anything kinda worked in his favour.
Anyone who says that... just idk.
Corbyn has always appeared genuine for better or worse.
Boris puts on an act, tries to seem like "one of the people" and "That lovable goofball" while also saying he reads what was it, greek poetry? To try and appear cultured.
While also saying such hateful racist things.
*sigh*
The Scottish Referendum caused Brexit in my view. If we'd never had that stupid in-out referendum the tories would never have had the hubris to do the Brexit one.
Well the Tories have, by having the media do their propaganda work for them 24/7. Difficult to compete with that.
I've been critical of the Guardian for years.
I'm looking forward to the full support Labour will get when Corbyn steps down, finally the only reason Labour lost won't be an issue and everyone will be on the same page.
These people were terrified of Corbyn. For many the primary drive for voting Tory against their own interest was to not have him in power. Infuriating.
Were they wrong? Cos the result today seems to vindicate what they've been saying.
They voted for a bigot, for a party that caused Windrush and didn't give a shit about Grenfell. They either are bigoted themselves or fine with voting for one, both are the same.
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