I would like to thank Charles Bunker (Brexit Party) for taking 846 votes away from the Tories and giving Labour a seat in my area (who won by only 146 votes).
UK General Election 12th December 2019 |OT1| Hindsight is 20/19 (Tory majority confirmed)
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He doesn't choose but he does have a lot of influence in the vote. Hard to win without the unions behind you. That's why Ed beat David.
There is a big list of things people don't like about Corbyn.
1. He's old and meek
2. He's from Islington
3. He has an awkward record of hand-wringing over terrorism
4. He is a pacifist
5. He is soft on the toxic elements within the party and his support base
6. Has a loon like Seumas Milne, a literal Stalinist, as his chief advisor
People don't want a soft leader. There were instances during his leadership when he refused to say he would order a terrorist to be shot to death during an attack, when he refused to say he would press the nuclear button, when he refused to apologise for his handling of antisemitism in the party, etc. Just say what you need to say to stop the criticism. Yes the press were out to get him but he made it easy for the shit they threw to stick to him. He will never be in a situation where he has to launch a nuke, so why not answer that absurd question with the words 95% of the country want to hear? Why not just sling your awful mate Ken Livingstone out of the party after his countless antisemitic statements?
Corbyn was the only politician I've ever believed. I still believe in him, even though his career is over. I don't blame him for this loss, he did the best anyone could.
Forgive me, I don't think it's going to be as simple as new window dressing. I don't think that's going to achieve anything other than a similar result, especially while Brexit looms over everything and the newspapers are given carte blanch to go to town on whoever is leading the Labour Party.
The centrists got decimated in the election, why do you people keep ignoring this.
To be fair the trend of the night was Brexit Party leeching votes from Labour, not the Tories.
No party would be able to take the country back into the EU, it would have to hold a referendum and also the UK would have to join as a fully integrated member and one of the criteria would be to change the currency from Sterling to the Euro, I cannot see this happened ever (maybe 100 years time), let alone in my lifetime, I also think but am not sure that it takes ten years or so to get ready to join the EU once it has been agreed that a country is eligible and allowed to join.
Because fuck facts, centrists have been abused for too long! Rise up! This election proves that centrism is the way forward somehow!
This is literally not how ANY of that works (in regards to the Euro)
Yeah this is basically what I found too. A lot of people I know around the age of 40+ voted conservative with similar reasons that pretty much amounted to ‘let’s get Brexit done’ and they all seemed to hate Corbyn passionately but nobody could actually give me any real reasons why.
That's why I'm hoping for someone like Sir Keir Starmer:
- Doesn't seem old and meek
- Must share at least some of Corbyn's politics because he was appointed by Corbyn
- At the same time is a critic of Corbyn's leadership tactics
- Human Right's defence QC
- Is a Knight
England (and Wales probably) will not join back the EU anytime soon. That's a dead end and a sure way to make sure Tories will continue to win elections. The EU is gone now. Labour still hasn't said one word about why EU was great for UK in the recent years and won't be able to sell that in the future. For as much as one blames remain, the truth is that Labour hasn't been a remain party in this election, but just a "let's roll the dice once more" party which looked amateurish as hell compared to "let's get the Brexit done". Starting with Jeremy "Neutral" Corbyn.
We are NEVER rejoining the EU. That is clear. Even if Brexit is a disaster, no-one will want to go through another referendum etc. Their will be no voter appetite for it.
People will use any election result, no matter what the actual result is, to try to argue for why centrism is necessary and "electable," even when the result is positively grim for centrism.
Yep. The dream of Europe is dead in the UK. In Scotland there is a still a chance if independence Is obtained. The best we can hope for is perhaps overtime a realisation that we have to stick close to regulations and rules coming from the EU27 so we don't detrimentally damage our trading and services access to the single market.
Corbyn wasn't a leader. Now, I HATE Trump but he has a personality that people will follow. He can talk absolute garbage and it doesn't matter because there are people attracted to his personality, confidence and leadership. Boris has something similar whereas May didn't. Arrogance or whatever you want to call it. There are lots of people particularly in the North that simply wouldn't trust Corbyn as a leader and it has nothing to do with manifestos.
No. No. No. Labour have to pick someone totally fresh to lead them, totally untainted by Brexit/remain and Corbyn's time as leader.That's why I'm hoping for someone like Sir Keir Starmer:
- Doesn't seem old and meek
- Must share at least some of Corbyn's politics because he was appointed by Corbyn
- At the same time is a critic of Corbyn's leadership tactics
- Human Right's defence QC
- Is a Knight
"A Sir? He's part of the Establishment" - the lads at the Mail.That's why I'm hoping for someone like Sir Keir Starmer:
- Doesn't seem old and meek
- Must share at least some of Corbyn's politics because he was appointed by Corbyn
- At the same time is a critic of Corbyn's leadership tactics
- Human Right's defence QC
- Is a Knight
i think labour scare-mongering so much in the election about the NHS has been an extra disaster as it’s completely failed as an electoral strategy but has succeeded in making a lot of labour voters very scared and anxious
worth pointing out that the tory manifesto really does commit to a lot of extra NHS spending for the future, unlike osborne and hammond, the costs of extra privatisation are stupid but relatively small compared to the billions going in (like under new labour where they spent so much it didn’t matter that pfi was inefficient) and the stuff about trump just means extra pharmaceutical down the line costs not selling off the nhs entirely. by 2024 the nhs will probably be in better state than now.
worth pointing out that the tory manifesto really does commit to a lot of extra NHS spending for the future, unlike osborne and hammond, the costs of extra privatisation are stupid but relatively small compared to the billions going in (like under new labour where they spent so much it didn’t matter that pfi was inefficient) and the stuff about trump just means extra pharmaceutical down the line costs not selling off the nhs entirely. by 2024 the nhs will probably be in better state than now.
that's not what leadership is, that's just toxic masculinity wrapped up in classism
The only good thing about this situation re:Brexit is that the parliamentary numbers plus the desire to get the trade deal locked in by the end of 2020 mean a reasonably soft Brexit is likely. Regulatory alignment is the only way to achieve a deal in that timescale and Boris now has the room to compromise on that and ignore the extremists in the party.
Choosing a MP from London and also part of Corbyn’s Shadow Cabinet is going to be a problem. I like Starmer though.That's why I'm hoping for someone like Sir Keir Starmer:
- Doesn't seem old and meek
- Must share at least some of Corbyn's politics because he was appointed by Corbyn
- At the same time is a critic of Corbyn's leadership tactics
- Human Right's defence QC
- Is a Knight
They hav have what they want, suddenly experts and the establishment will be okay again, I hope people in Labour learn to stop fighting battles that have been decided and try to anticipate the next.
Which is probably what is left of the public sector.
People keep saying this but Boris is one of those extremists. He became PM for the purpose of getting a Hard/No Deal Brexit.
Honestly? Best strategy for Labour would have been to vote May's deal. Once the things escalated they should have picked one poison: either soft Brexit (Norway style) or revoke without any further negotiations for unicorn deals and referendum, especially after the Tory had a (bridge) deal to sell to the voters.
If northerners and Welsh can vote for an Eton toff I don't know why a Londoner would be such an issue for them
He's also a Corbyn sceptic too, plus he looks like a cross between a Kingsman and the T-800.
There's several stages to a Labour leadership election.
Firstly, candidates have to be nominated by 10% of Labout MPs/MEPs. That will determine who is allowed to run. That means that MPs can effectively block a candidate if there's sufficient agreement amongst them.
Secondly, the candidates go through an election lasting a few months. Votes aren't weighted - if you're a member of the Labour party your vote counts as much as Jeremy Corbyn's. Voting is by single transferable vote.
Outside of those stages, the only way for any group to affect the election is to influence other voters. Unions, for example, will probably support a specific candidate. You might see similar endorsements from newspapers, online communities, and various prominent politicians. They will all try to swing the election towards their preferred candidate, but in the end, it's individual votes that count.
It can be much faster than 10 years. Finland, for example, applied to join the EU in March 1992, concluding accession negotiations in March 1994, held a referendum in October 1994, and joined in January 1995. That ~3-year process is still the fastest-ever accession.
From what I have read the Tory policy on the NHS didn't add up and that's if you believe they even stick to what they said.
Boris says what people want to hear, he doesn't believe in anything. He became PM for the purpose of becoming PM. He said what he had to say to get there. He will see living up to his promise of a deal by December 2020 as much more important than the actual details. He caved into the EU so that he could get his withdrawal agreement drawn up in time and he will do it again. There is no reason not to, he never cared about this stuff. It was all about getting to No 10 and now he will do what he has to do to stay there. Pissing off the ERG is nothing, he already did that and they ate the shit sandwich he served them.
The worry here is that Johnson will introduce a load of legislation that basically ruins the country to the point it'll be incompatible with EU standards and you'd need a fairly sizeable majority to undo it all.
it’s less than they claimed due to inflation but it’s not an insignificant increase
i think there are very real pressures on tory policy with their new voter coalition of bolsover and blyth valley but no seats in wandsworth
The EU is looking to integrate even more and the UK has a opt-out from the Euro in the Maastricht Treaty, countries that have joined but do not yet have the Euro are obliged to adopt the Euro in future, I couldn't see the EU allowing the UK to re-join the EU without adopting the Euro that is all, the UK would have to eventually use the Euro, but when this would be palatable to the majority of UK citizens enough to vote for it is so many years away.
I agree and concede there is much more to it than what I have written and I am/could be wrong in parts of it, but I just cannot see the UK rejoining the EU in my lifetime and the Euro is a big reason for that.
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So what do we think are the policies Labour v2.0 will carry forward? Outside of protecting the NHS and trying to end child poverty, I’m not sure what else resonates with voters.
The EU have always also specifically said they'd never force countries to take up the Euro if they don't want to, they just have to agree in principle to taking it up some day when they join. It's why Sweden doesn't use it.
Yeah this point was made again and again last night. The Tory base is now in the regions and in big parts of the deprived north. If he wants to keep that base, he has to throw them some bones.
Yes. Just to be clear, I'm not saying that the UK could rejoin within 3 years. The process for the UK, if it ever even kicks off, is likely to take much longer than that. I'm just saying there isn't necessarily a 10-year gap between agreement and accession (or anything like that time).
My earliest guess for a date for the EU rejoining, if everything went perfectly, would be 2034 (results from yesterday's election strongly suggest that there is no reason to believe that everything will go perfectly from here).
I don't think he wants to, it's why he talks about the seats being loaned, they can carry on without them now they have what they want. They still want to be a conservative party.
Yeah there's no perfect, the best case scenario for getting the Tories out is that Johnson fucks up Brexit so much there are riots but can't see that happening. The public has spoken and they want fascism.
reckon it will just be the 2017 manifesto, it’s one that really did succeed in getting 41% of the vote..a winning tally in most elections in my lifetime and the whole country has moved more left wing on economics. it’s less radical than it was sold as most people support nationalisations and remember them being nationalised in their lifetimes (feels plausible not pie in the sky)
the 2019 manifesto was a catastrophe
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