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Oct 27, 2017
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Audioboxer Acorn and other independence supporters. If a referendum happens do you think a simple 50%+1 majority is sufficient or do you think it should require some sort of supermajority/ majority of the electorate?

For the record, in 2014 I would have been against independence but in favour of it now.
 

Audioboxer

Banned
Nov 14, 2019
2,943
Audioboxer Acorn and other independence supporters. If a referendum happens do you think a simple 50%+1 majority is sufficient or do you think it should require some sort of supermajority/ majority of the electorate?

For the record, in 2014 I would have been against independence but in favour of it now.

In a perfect world, I'd support proportional representation and probably at least a debate on what is required in a referendum.

But seeing as Brexit has been carried out on 52 vs 48, it's more than "fair" whatever happens in Scotland goes by whatever wins too. The main difference with Brexit won't be it's vote share, it's that the initial campaign was heavily fought on smears/lies. Boris heavily involved in that himself, and now he's the prime minister.

The SNP don't set out to aim to do that, whatever ideological differences you may have over the Union breaking up.

I'm more interested that a campaign, whether it be a referendum, or a GE, is fought based on truth, empathy and justice. Ideological differences often mean things might be subjective, but by truth, I at least mean not driving around in a 350m NHS bus before blaming immigrants for the failing of the UK.

Those are lies, not subjective ideological differences over the direction for a country.
 
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Audioboxer

Banned
Nov 14, 2019
2,943
Speaking of Hopkins



But what I really like doing is "RANGERS WATCH". It never fails

First replies



kZFjYsh.png


It's always Rangers...

I love how Boris now speaks for England, but Nicola does not speak for Scotland. It's one thing to acknowledge not everyone in Scotland votes for the SNP, but it's more fun to point out the hypocritical stance gammons like Hopkins take where Boris/The Tories now speak for England, but an SNP majority in Scotland means nothing.

Or worse, it somehow means Scotland actually supports Boris/The Tories 🤷‍♂️
 

PJV3

Member
Oct 25, 2017
25,676
London
I don't think Labour should shift to the right again. The center of politics is dead, it died with the housing market crash of the 2000s. I think we need to stick left, but explain the policies better and show the world how it is possible to have nice things. I don't see another way around it.

I don't think we should talk as though there is only one slider for all policy in the labour party, the new leader is going to need some space to react to whatever the Tories do to the country, its a massive unknown at the moment.

A pragmatic left leaning leader is what I want to see.
 

Audioboxer

Banned
Nov 14, 2019
2,943
Funny how the voices of the near 50% who voted remain mysteriously didn't count for anything to these people

Undoubtedly, when you win an election, your bias for your own party and the fact you won has you want to declare "The country now....". It's the way politics works in a FPTP world. Majority takes all, just about. Two party system and all that jazz. Even although Scotland birthed a "third party" in the SNP, that has now come at the expense of Scottish Labour being completely dead. It's SNP vs Tories up here.

The hypocrisy of the gammons though means they won't even admit that, what they do instead is say their majority is king, but any other majority, say it be in a Union, is somehow less representative than theirs.

It obviously frustrates BNP-lite spokespeople like Hopkins not every area of her United Kingdom is on board with her vision for the UK. She'll release a video saying England is now blue and this means Britain First to the face of immigrants, then turn around and say "actually, in Scotland, the SNP only got 45% of the vote". It's bad-faith acting given the Tories only got 43% of the vote.
 

Protome

Member
Oct 27, 2017
15,677
Funny how the voices of the near 50% who voted remain mysteriously didn't count for anything to these people
Of course they definitely believe that because SNP didn't get the majority of the popular vote Scotland shouldn't have a referendum and that because the majority of the UK wide popular vote went to Remain/2nd Ref parties we should have a second Brexit ref right? 🤔
 

Deleted member 34788

User requested account closure
Banned
Nov 29, 2017
3,545

We need to start eating the old, not just the rich. Not joking either.

Those graphs give me some positive feeling of 50 and under peeps though. We just need to get those in power.

One thing that struck me about the guardian video series about the election is in the final one you saw swathes of young and millienals getting stuck right in. One said he thinks their gen is the one that just wont take shit anymore. He is likely right.

Like PJV3 said, the data is there, a gen war is brewing.


Scotland does have influence, Boris is simply scared of it. The people up here are making their voice heard and that voice will ultimately set us free. We're not voting how you are voting, that is the basis for a constitutional crisis in a "union of equals". The whole world is watching the UK and they are aware of Scotland's plight.

You'll be proven wrong to call me delusional, and the people of this country who know while it's going to be a fight, the UK will not be able to browbeat and behave like a dictatorship for much longer.

The greatest thing the English will do wrong is to underestimate the Scottish people in a time of great political turbulence. Especially when we have a somewhat competent Government trying to lead us.

After Brexit and after this general election and what it brings over the next 10 years, the union will end. It's a matter of when, not if.

Yep, the genie is out of the bottle now with Indy ref. But it will take years, within this decade is a good bet. Bojo, cummings and co would like one more crack at gaining seats in scotland after labours collapse up there and them losing seats.


SNP has to get ready, Cummings and his advisers will try all sorts in the next election with Scotland.
 

Audioboxer

Banned
Nov 14, 2019
2,943
We need to start eating the old, not just the rich. Not joking either.

Those graphs give me some positive feeling of 50 and under peeps though. We just need to get those in power.

One thing that struck me about the guardian video series about the election is in the final one you saw swathes of young and millienals getting stuck right in. One said he thinks their gen is the one that just wont take shit anymore. He is likely right.

Like PJV3 said, the data is there, a gen war is brewing.

Yep, the genie is out of the bottle now with Indy ref. But it will take years, within this decade is a good bet. Bojo, cummings and co would like one more crack at gaining seats in scotland after labours collapse up there and them losing seats.

Labours collapse in Scotland happened years back though, and all that is happening now is some remaining Labour diehards are holding their nose and voting SNP. Yes, the majority of Scottish Labour is still Unionist, but you'll find a lot of soft-Unionists there. Not to mention as Curtis points out a solid 30% of the Scottish Labour base who are already for independence.

Given the state of the UK Conservative party and Brexit, thinking soft-Unionists will all go in big numbers to the Scottish Conservatives has shown not to be the case.

Even in 2017 when the SNP took a bit of a hit, the revival of the Scottish Conservatives "only" took them to 13 seats. You need 30 in Scotland for a majority.

The 6 seats Labour lost in this election went to the SNP, not to the Tories.

While I don't doubt Boris wants 5 years to pass to try and shrink the SNP seats again, Scotland just isn't going to return a sizeable number of Tories for the foreseeable future. Not after yet another 5~10 years of austerity.
 

PJV3

Member
Oct 25, 2017
25,676
London
This. Someone who is nimble and flexible, can adapt, can think on the spot and has a clear and effective media strategy. The media will always be hostile, we can't run from them, instead they will have to take the fight to them.

The tories are about to (or are able to) blow huge holes in areas of the UK, there's no EU court to stop them, there is no point electing a leader with some 100 page leftwing blueprint. I'm a bit worried some haven't accepted how massive the Tories win is, I don't think the bloody tory voters realise it either to be honest.
 

LinkStrikesBack

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
16,350


Well Tory voters, look what you've got yourself. I hope you're happy.



This mother fucker. I had serious thoughts of sending an actual threat of violence to her in reply for this, but of course it won't do anyone any good.

I am so sorry to every single minority of any definition in the UK, you were let down even more than normal.
 

SMD

Member
Oct 28, 2017
6,341


I expected this to start, but not this quickly. I feel incredibly sorry for all of our BAME brothers and sisters.

It's all going to go to shit.


There isn't even any point in saying 'we told you' because no one gives a shit. The antisemitism scaremongering was never good faith concern from those on the right and all that's happened is increased division.
 

Rodelero

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,510
Why the fuck are the right wing in this country starting to use the term 'blue collar' as if we're America?

I wonder if it's something to do with them copying the Republican playbook line for line.

Voter ID is coming. Can't wait to see what additional bullshit they manage to pull with that policy that benefits them.
 

Audioboxer

Banned
Nov 14, 2019
2,943
FPTP in the UK is bonkers right now. The Tories got 1.2% of the vote more than they did in 2017 and gained 66 seats. The LibDems up 4.2% and lost 10. SNP up 0.8% and gained 13.

SNP were up 8.1% in Scotland, figures are above. Lots of Scottish seats are marginals which explains it. I mean Swinson lost by like 120 votes or something.

Labour voters going SNP really helped the SNP. Just like it did in 2015.
 

Stuart444

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,068
Audioboxer Acorn and other independence supporters. If a referendum happens do you think a simple 50%+1 majority is sufficient or do you think it should require some sort of supermajority/ majority of the electorate?

For the record, in 2014 I would have been against independence but in favour of it now.

Normally I'd say super majority but considering it wasn't a super majority in the EU ref, I'd say let's have it on the same terms. Even 1% more should allow us to leave the UK.



She is an evil fuck.

You can disagree or dislike Nicola but god damn, her and the amount of fucks in the comments calling her that.

Evil cunts.
 

Stuart444

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,068
I just reported that and a few other tweets for being hateful from her.

yeah might not do much but god damn, she's just so fucking openly racist, it makes me sick. Fuck her and fuck the comments under her posts that think like her.
 

Kromeo

Member
Oct 27, 2017
17,831
She probably gets reported for every tweet she makes, Twitter and other social media platforms are all obsessed with "protecting free speech"
 

Audioboxer

Banned
Nov 14, 2019
2,943


Sadly, as expected, the Twitter knives are out in force. There is simply no chance Scottish Labour can even appear "neutral" to Scotland and this is why Scottish Labour is dead.

They basically become the Tories up here when it comes to any necessary conversations around how the Scottish electorate is rejecting Westminster business as usual.

To even show a little bit of sympathy towards the Scottish electorate is simply taken by The Sun and a headline printed "X Labour leader is in the pockets of the SNP, vote Tory to protect national security as Scotland is on the verge of invading and killing English patriots".

Labour doesn't just have an existential crisis in England, it's utterly dead in Scotland too. I have some sympathy for that, but the Scottish people aren't at fault for feeling Scottish Labour has abandoned them. Unlike some of the English who ran to the Tories feeling Labour had "abandoned them".

Labour's manifesto south of the border was at least ethical and humane. Unlike the Tories you may have voted for. Most Scottish people who have abandoned Labour done it by voting for another centre-left party, the SNP. We didn't go full shithouse and vote Tory. You simply cannot look at us and try to extrapolate it's partly our fault the Tories are winning in England. We didn't replace our existing Labour votes by voting for an inhumane Conservative party.
 
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Deleted member 5028

User requested account closure
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Oct 25, 2017
9,724
I just reported that and a few other tweets for being hateful from her.

yeah might not do much but god damn, she's just so fucking openly racist, it makes me sick. Fuck her and fuck the comments under her posts that think like her.
Same. She is all our being racist now and Twitter does nothing.


Who says liars always get their comeuppance :-/
 

PJV3

Member
Oct 25, 2017
25,676
London
Lol, that is pretty fucking wild, very trustworthy these Tories. Speaking as a brain surgeon I find this all very suspicious.
 
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Flammable D

Member
Oct 30, 2017
15,205
Maybe Labour should sack off Scotland finally (in a loving way, they're not going to make inroads on the SNP) and concentrate focus elsewhere
 

Deleted member 5028

User requested account closure
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Oct 25, 2017
9,724
Maybe Labour should sack off Scotland finally (in a loving way, they're not going to make inroads on the SNP) and concentrate focus elsewhere
Just realign to "if we listen to the will of the people to go our own way then we stand with our friends the SNP in Scotland, the people of NI in determining their own futures. We will work with you"
 

Audioboxer

Banned
Nov 14, 2019
2,943
Maybe Labour should sack off Scotland finally (in a loving way, they're not going to make inroads on the SNP) and concentrate focus elsewhere

The overall Labour party, meaning the English part, is still seriously involved in Unionism and wanting to keep Scotland as an asset of the UK. They will never give up running red leaflets that mirror the blue Tory leaflets here saying "stop Scottish independence".

Now that Corbyn is gone you're likely to see an even fiercer Labour Unionist lead the party. Corbyn being seen to be a reasonable man who would at least talk to Sturgeon was seen as blood in the water.

Both Labour and the Conservatives will continue to fight for the Unionist scraps in Scotland until the day Scotland does vote to leave. Both continue to be hopeful Scotland will one day just "make do". Like this fantastic tweet



"So instead can we just try to make do with the situation?"
 

Dougald

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,937
You all realise you're basically playing into Hopkins' hands by posting all her tweets right? She's a nobody whose only remaining claim to fame is posting disgusting shit on Twitter. I'd love if the world let her fade into obscurity
 

Flammable D

Member
Oct 30, 2017
15,205
Just realign to "if we listen to the will of the people to go our own way then we stand with our friends the SNP in Scotland, the people of NI in determining their own futures. We will work with you"
Yeah, basically, there's no need to waste time and money fielding what could end up being wrecking candidates when you could just support what's there.
The overall Labour party, meaning the English part, is still seriously involved in Unionism and wanting to keep Scotland as an asset of the UK. They will never give up running red leaflets that mirror the blue Tory leaflets here saying "stop Scottish independence".

Now that Corbyn is gone you're likely to see an even fiercer Labour Unionist lead the party. Corbyn being seen to be a reasonable man who would at least talk to Sturgeon was seen as blood in the water.

Both Labour and the Conservatives will continue to fight for the Unionist scraps in Scotland until the day Scotland does vote to leave.
Yeah, this is what I'd like not what I'd expect.
 

Audioboxer

Banned
Nov 14, 2019
2,943
You all realise you're basically playing into Hopkins' hands by posting all her tweets right? She's a nobody whose only remaining claim to fame is posting disgusting shit on Twitter. I'd love if the world let her fade into obscurity

In this current future to come, Hopkins is not fading into irrelevance. Her kind is emboldened. A reminder is needed now to let every single Tory voter in the UK know what they've just got into bed with.

Given that we have quiet Tories in this topic, and some less than quiet who popped up in this topic on election night, a couple of Hopkins tweets being highlighted is a nice reminder for them.

But sure, I will not be posting Hopkins tweets now every single page. Fuck that.
 

Calabi

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,484
I feel like the fact the split for basically remain party's vs leave still being so close means a second referendum would have been a wash anyway. If after all this time so many people haven't come to the reality and still want Brexit so much, and the media isn't going to report how bad it will be, and even if they did the leavers wouldn't believe it. Leave would still either win, because so many people wouldn't vote, wouldn't care or remain would be so close that it would be unfair.

It had to be this way I guess, the education had to have been done over the past 3 years but it wasn't, it was probably impossible, you can't really explain these things to people, and they wouldn't even care because they just want you to get rid of the foreigners.
 

Audioboxer

Banned
Nov 14, 2019
2,943
Corbyn is probably plotting with the IRA right now on how to blow up Westminster because he lost the election.

He is that dangerous.
 
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