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UK General Election 12th December 2019 |OT1| Hindsight is 20/19

Streamlined

Member
Sep 16, 2019
226
Imagine the reaction if anyone in Labour, let alone a shadow cabinet member, saying “others take a more balanced approach to anti-semitism than Margaret Hodge”.
 

Thornton Reed

Member
Oct 30, 2017
663
The yougov poll showing the Tory gains in the north makes for extremely depressing reading. I'm going on black out. Feeling very sad. I can't afford to be feeling like this over politics so i have to switch off. See you in 5 years
 

SMD

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,258
Imagine the reaction if anyone in Labour, let alone a shadow cabinet member, saying “others take a more balanced approach to anti-semitism than Margaret Hodge”.
I don't want to take anything away from the issue of antisemitism in Labour, on the left or the UK as a whole but I find it incredibly uncomfortable when people bring up Margaret Hodge as some kind of barometer of scrutiny given her awful attitude to child abuse under her watch in Islington.
 

nekkid

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,003
Now let's see what the major news outlets and papers make of this further evidence of institutional Islamophobia in the Conservative Party.

*crickets chirping*
Well she’s Islamic, so of course she is going to be biased.

I wonder who the BBC will find to provide the balance?

Edit: that looks bad - that first sentence was meant to be sarcastic.
 
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Arkestry

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,206
London
I find the whole discourse around the different types of racism in the two major parties so fucking depressing. It's obviously to be expected of the Tories, and they're obviously doing fuck all about it, but the measures being taken to deal with Anti-semitism in Labour seem, from the outside at least, severely lacking and half-hearted. I know that Labour would be far better in power, and I also believe that they are far more ideologically equipped and disposed to addressing racism within their ranks, but the fact that we're still talking about this years after the first allegations were made public is really demoralising.
 

Acorn

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,505
Scotland
Yeah, the party seems to be playing with the hindu/muslim divisions as well according to the guardian, some in the tory party are playing with fire.
They've been playing with Protestant/Catholic shit up here for awhile. That includes stuff as simple as Celtic v rangers or to a lesser extent Hibs/hearts and loyalist/republican.

Numerous councillors, candidates etc have been found to be members of the orange order and made horrible comments about Catholics, Islamic people etc. Ruth "the liberal" would just suspend them for 3 months and pretend they don't exist.
 

Acorn

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,505
Scotland
I find the whole discourse around the different types of racism in the two major parties so fucking depressing. It's obviously to be expected of the Tories, and they're obviously doing fuck all about it, but the measures being taken to deal with Anti-semitism in Labour seem, from the outside at least, severely lacking and half-hearted. I know that Labour would be far better in power, and I also believe that they are far more ideologically equipped and disposed to addressing racism within their ranks, but the fact that we're still talking about this years after the first allegations were made public is really demoralising.
Even if there was a perfect response you'd still be hearing about it because it's something the opposition to labour, Corbyn and the left in general have seen getting traction. The right wing commentariat makes their money from concern trolling, this shit is gold for them.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,253
The Ocean
I would like to think this Boris blunder would get more coverage y’all but I guess it’s not a national emergency


yet here is the BBC putting the blame on home owners


Every time there's serious flooding, questions are asked about why it was allowed to happen.

One simple answer is governments of all parties have been accused of not spending enough on protection.

You can build walls along river banks and many places have been guarded this way but such 'hard defences' are expensive and obtrusive.

An alternative is to employ what are known as soft defences. These include encouraging farmers to manage their land in ways that let fields hold back floodwater.

Driveways and car parks can be surfaced with materials that allow it to reach the soil underneath.

Another option is to make homes more resilient - fitting exterior doors with waterproof plastic panels, sealing the ground floor and raising fuse boxes.

In some ways the country has become better prepared for flooding but lessons are not always learned and the misery for many keeps being repeated.
 

Garfield

Member
Oct 31, 2018
1,413
I would like to think this Boris blunder would get more coverage y’all but I guess it’s not a national emergency


yet here is the BBC putting the blame on home owners

I use to live in a flood zone 3 area, we moved after a year, you get lots of text from the enviroment agency which is good, but our council use to spend a lot of money dredging the river to help prevent flooding, but alas that got cut.
 

Ando

Member
Apr 21, 2018
396
i can’t believe the boris NI video story just came and went - that seems like the one thing in the election so far alongside the tory debate about a transition extension option which has real long term ramifications and a functioning press wouldn’t just let it fall away into the normal election season back and forth. reminds me of the 2015 election where no-one discussed much what things like osborne’s tax credits stuff or even the fucking referendum itself would actually mean.

sky news to their credit did seem to realise it was important
 

SMD

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,258
i can’t believe the boris NI video story just came and went - that seems like the one thing in the election so far alongside the tory debate about a transition extension option which has real long term ramifications and a functioning press wouldn’t just let it fall away into the normal election season back and forth. reminds me of the 2015 election where no-one discussed much what things like osborne’s tax credits stuff or even the fucking referendum itself would actually mean.

sky news to their credit did seem to realise it was important
Are you really surprised?
 

Mavis

Member
Oct 25, 2017
659
Blue Mountains
I use to live in a flood zone 3 area, we moved after a year, you get lots of text from the enviroment agency which is good, but our council use to spend a lot of money dredging the river to help prevent flooding, but alas that got cut.
In the same day I have friends here in Australia losing their home to bushfires and friends back home in South Yorkshire losing their homes to floods. Both entirely avoidable except for right wing governments refusing to fund the steps needed to reduce the risk.
 

Calabi

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,232
I find the whole discourse around the different types of racism in the two major parties so fucking depressing. It's obviously to be expected of the Tories, and they're obviously doing fuck all about it, but the measures being taken to deal with Anti-semitism in Labour seem, from the outside at least, severely lacking and half-hearted. I know that Labour would be far better in power, and I also believe that they are far more ideologically equipped and disposed to addressing racism within their ranks, but the fact that we're still talking about this years after the first allegations were made public is really demoralising.
Basically Boris can announce that he's doing nothing to investigate Islamaphobia in his party and he gets away with it, but Corbyn is clearly anti-Semitic(even though there is no evidence to suggest that he personally is, and Labour are at least doing something about the antisemitism people in their party). But the Conservatives and their party leaders blatant quoted racism that's fine. I think its pretty clear Boris will win the election, it was won years ago similar to the EU. If you put out a simple lie often enough then it becomes the truth. I've had arguments in Discord about how Corbyn is somehow worse than Boris, when I put the evidence before them he just is, I've seen other youtubers say the same.

You cant win against that, the right wing media and social media has successfully demonised Labour and Corbyn, and there is no chance of them suddenly turning that around in a month. I'm betting he would have been one of our best PM's as well.
 

JediTimeBoy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,838
Basically Boris can announce that he's doing nothing to investigate Islamaphobia in his party and he gets away with it, but Corbyn is clearly anti-Semitic(even though there is no evidence to suggest that he personally is, and Labour are at least doing something about the antisemitism people in their party). But the Conservatives and their party leaders blatant quoted racism that's fine. I think its pretty clear Boris will win the election, it was won years ago similar to the EU. If you put out a simple lie often enough then it becomes the truth. I've had arguments in Discord about how Corbyn is somehow worse than Boris, when I put the evidence before them he just is, I've seen other youtubers say the same.

You cant win against that, the right wing media and social media has successfully demonised Labour and Corbyn, and there is no chance of them suddenly turning that around in a month. I'm betting he would have been one of our best PM's as well.
Imo, it's still not guaranteed. I don't see any party having the needed majority, and imo, Labour are more likely to be able to form a coalition, than the Tories.
 

null

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,092
Oh I guess that's settled then /s

Either the story is completely made up or it's not.
Well I mean it seems weird to sit on a story for nearly 2 years and the only source from a bus full of journalists is... the guy who wrote the story.

if the bar is really that low then there's no hope for anyone.

edit


and that's coming from Dan Hodges.
 

Ando

Member
Apr 21, 2018
396
both parties are having candidates picked off left, right and centre and people are really going to regret creating a standard of past misdeeds that make you unacceptable as a party candidate when every mp in fifteen years is a oxbridge ppe robot who decided to become a cabinet minister aged nine and has carefully avoided leaving any evidence of misdeeds since then
 

Acorn

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,505
Scotland
A bus full of journalists and not one that recorded it or wrote about it until now? It's not Impossible but makes it seem less likely. I'm guessing the guy that wrote the story must have someone to corroborate so I'll hold back until I hear more.
 

nature boy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,820
Yes the timing is massively suspicious and yes the reporter has some answering to do but if it's made up then there can only be a defamation lawsuit (and if cost is an issue labour should help with the legal costs).

But this, true or not, is not an isolated anti-Semitism incident with labour
 

AzorAhai

Member
Oct 29, 2017
948
I've been saying this for years. There is a global tendency (I'm not saying it's globally organized) to make potential hard left alternatives look like the devil, especially in powerful western countries like the UK, France, or the US. The likes of Sanders, Corbyn or Melenchon certainly have flaws, but the effort to shit on them constantly has become ridiculous.

I know that not everyone follows the political news of their country, let alone of other countries, but it's obvious now that the rich are shitting their pants at the prospect of real change. I'm not even saying it would necessarily work, but the simple idea of one of these being elected is producing some delicious, terrifying panic modes. They would rather side with authoritarian pro-business regimes or even with fascists.

What's ironic is that most rich people would actually benefit in the long run from happier and healthier workers thanks to redistribution, but they can't see that, they only see short-term finances. I'm amazed that some are still downplaying the class struggle of our time.
 

Acorn

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,505
Scotland
I've been saying this for years. There is a global tendency (I'm not saying it's globally organized) to make potential hard left alternatives look like the devil, especially in powerful western countries like the UK, France, or the US. The likes of Sanders, Corbyn or Melenchon certainly have flaws, but the effort to shit on them constantly has become ridiculous.

I know that not everyone follows the political news of their country, let alone of other countries, but it's obvious now that the rich are shitting their pants at the prospect of real change. I'm not even saying it would necessarily work, but the simple idea of one of these being elected is producing some delicious but terrifying panic modes. They would rather side with authoritarian pro-business regimes or even with fascists.

What's ironic is that most rich people would actually benefit in the long run from happier and healthier workers thanks to redistribution, but they can't see that, they only see short-term finances. I'm amazed that some are still downplaying the class struggle of our time.
I agree generally but part of the problem is calling centre left social democracy "the hard left". I'm not having a go btw just saying, in most other European States what Corbyn is offering wouldn't raise a single eyebrow.
 

Ando

Member
Apr 21, 2018
396
a middle aged white male mp thinking singing hey jews instead of hey jude is hilarious banter seems quite plausible. of mp’s in the house of commons i could readily imagine 2/3rds of them doing that. a lot of mp’s are really bad. doesn’t mean it’s true off.

labour were certainly correct that this election wouldn’t be all about brexit as journalists are incredibly bored of it and desperate to switch subjects.

sadly they switched to a series of “parts of the labour right are anxious about corbyn’s leadership” and “jews think labour are an anti-Semitic party” stories instead of “nhs in crisis” and “people dying because of universal credit”
 

Acorn

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,505
Scotland
a middle aged white male mp thinking singing hey jews instead of hey jude is hilarious banter seems quite plausible. of mp’s in the house of commons i could readily imagine 2/3rds of them doing that.

labour were certainly correct that this election wouldn’t be all about brexit as journalists are incredibly bored of it and desperate to switch subjects.

sadly they switched to a series of “parts of the labour right are anxious about corbyn’s leadership” and “jews think labour are an anti-Semitic party” stories instead of “nhs in crisis” and “people dying because of universal credit”
In 6 months when they start reporting on the new foodbank numbers "how did this happen? I guess we'll never know".
 

AzorAhai

Member
Oct 29, 2017
948
I agree generally but part of the problem is calling centre left social democracy "the hard left". I'm not having a go btw just saying, in most other European States what Corbyn is offering wouldn't raise a single eyebrow.
Yes absolutely, I'm talking about how they are perceived. Each one is seen as "far left" in their country even though it wouldn't make sense in another one. But what's important is the evolution, the tendency, and their offers are definitely bothering the upper classes, and in the end hard left is becoming kind of... dirty.
 
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Ando

Member
Apr 21, 2018
396
In 6 months when they start reporting on the new foodbank numbers "how did this happen? I guess we'll never know".
a great day for all these idiots was a brief moment of self-reflection after grenfell where they were like “oh god maybe we should have been focusing on reporting the years of complaints that the community had about cladding and fire risks instead of fixating wholly on irrelevant inter-party political squabbles and acting like they we’re the end of democracy itself”

then two days later they were back on their bullshit with that completely forgotten.
 

Acorn

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,505
Scotland
Yes absolutely, I'm talking about how they are perceived. Each one is seen as "far left" in their country even though it would'´t make sense in another one. But what's important is the evolution, the tendency, and their offers are definitely bothering the upper classes.
Definitely, I think at some point something has gotta give. I think we'll continue to see people revolting in smaller high inequality countries.

Here nothing will change, nobody gives a shit about anyone outside their circle. If they did, the last 10 years of foodbanks going from thousands to millions of parcels would be a bigger issue but it isn't.