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UK General Election 12th December 2019 |OT1| Hindsight is 20/19 (Tory majority confirmed)
- Thread starter Uzzy
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This has a lot to do with Britain still stuck in a class mindset.
Many many people in this country still by default think someone educated in Eton and the like are better than everyone else.
A big perception is such a person can be trusted with money more because of their status/wealth.
It's why smears against Corbyn destroying the economy are soo effective when they seem to bounce off Boris Johnson even after 10 years of austerity from his party.
Corbyn, as the polls say, is seen as more of the ordinary man who identifies with the people. So he's not elite enough to handle money. He must be lying. We better trust Boris more with the economy. Corbyn is expected to cost his manifesto, but who gives a fuck if Boris does, we've just to trust the posh rich boy because of his status.
It's mind-blowing stupidity but years of careful propaganda (demonizing poor people/benefits/disability) and the monarchy are to blame for keeping this shit alive. Westminster and the monarchy have destroyed this country with classism.
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I don't see how anyone, on any side, can argue against that UNLESS you're trying to be bias and disingenuous. Like, seriously, trying to compare a donation made up of a bunch of tiny donations from many, many difererent people to a single, large donation from a single person. Like... fucking really? You really want to compare that and then attack a side for that and excuse the other side? Fuck right off.
That is an understatement. Hoping for the best for everyone across the ocean from us because that stupidity is literally going to get people killed in the U.K. if it comes to pass.
Don't get me wrong, he was still a terrible PM. It's just that the Tories since he was in power have somehow made him look not so bad in comparison.
I think the worst part of this as somebody who works in the care sector who works in poorer communities is that the people who are some of the most vulnerable in the counter, despite their own abilities and talents, will have parents/guardians who want to vote Tory for the racist reasons despite being in communities with next to zero PoC presence. This leads to the people I care for developing implicit bigoted views and prioritising them over their own well being.
I genuinely just can't comprehend how people will put fears of some other that they don't ever see in their day to day life over the welfare of people who are clearly loved ones.
That helps make it make some sense. It's like being in touch with ordinary people makes you less qualified to be ruler because ordinary people aren't rulers.
People should be aware of the class structure of their society, but for lower classes to be both aware of it and desiring it is really sad.
Communities like that are isolated and insular, and culturally deprived. That breeds ignorance, and ignorance fuels bigotry. Unfortunately, the education system does little to compensate especially since we live in a society that ridicules intelligence and academic achievement from a young age.
That's another thing about Boris vs Corbyn: one's seen a bullish toff, the other a nerdy swot...
Some people like to "know their place" and get uncomfortable when the established order is contradicted :/
I feel like one of the greatest crimes you can commit in the country - England, certainly - is to step outside the role you've been allocated. Do that, and others will tear you down. It's all a bit crabs-in-a-bucket.
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Though I'm not British, this election reminds me of the election earlier this year here in Australia where the Labor Party proposed polices that were quite ambitious but may have costed a bit of money, only to have the electorate reject them in favour of the conservative party promising lower taxes as well as bonus tax refunds (that most people didn't really get in the end anyways). Surprised that the British Labour party didn't look at our election and realise that unfortunately while amazing for the growth of a country, these ambitious policies often don't go down well with many people who are too afraid of change.
The other incredibly important thing she points out is that no matter how big the union donation is, it's all done in the open, the intent behind it is clear. When some 1% cunt gives up a million to the Cons, no one knows what they are asking for in return.
British people want change, that's why we got the Brexit. That's why Johnson and Farage pretend they're suddenly in charge of entirely new entities rather than the just same old rubbish. Brits know that shit's weak, they just can't reconcile it with the government that's made shit weak for 10 years. Labour's problem on economics is that they've been unable to link borrowing to investment to return on the investment in a way that's tangible, and they get caught on the borrowing/eat the rich question almost immediately.
Lots of poor and disenfranchised worship the Royal Family.
Some of the deepest roots of the class divides won't be pulled out till the monarchy is abolished.
Until then please enjoy the Queen sitting on a throne in a jewel encrusted crown on Christmas day giving a speech about poverty whilst foodbanks are run off their feet in the run up to Christmas.
I wish I was as confident of this as you. I think Boris would get tons of support south of the border if he started off his new govt by saying to indyref2. No debate, just no. A show of strength. It'd be seen as putting the uppity jocks in their place and would be very popular. They've also already shown they don't particularly give a shit about norms or conventions or the courts, even, so I'm not especially confident of getting anywhere with legal challenges either. When you have no shame and the media won't hold you to account, you can get away with just about anything, apparently.
I know what you mean.
Its a good video but these days Pie is not good and became a typical 'both sides' person who loves to tackle contentious subjects that go against left wing arguments.
Such a shame as I was a huge fan early on even went to see him live.
Made this while explaining to my 5 year old why Boris Johnson is an evil man, get 'em while they're young!
Lol
He hates the Tories and asks people to vote tactically against them?
I've seen worse "centrist". At least he understands that the Tories must be kicked out at all costs and is advocating for tactical voting even if you have to hold your nose because you don't like Lab or LD.
You can be anti Tory and still have questionable opinions on the gender pay gap and giving Nazis a platform.
So the question now is, how big will the Tory majority be in a weeks time? I suspect 40+, with Labour losing a lot of their northern strongholds for good, a bit like they did Scotland a few years back. Too many people are fed up with Brexit and want to believe Johnson's lies about "Get Brexit done". Too many people want to be poorer, have no NHS and want posh people lying to them it seems.
A bit of cold weather next week will result in the youth vote staying at home to play on their PS4's, so I don't see any way for a hung parliament given the polling and massive media bias against Labour.
A bit of cold weather next week will result in the youth vote staying at home to play on their PS4's, so I don't see any way for a hung parliament given the polling and massive media bias against Labour.
I'm slightly confused as to how that one reads. For Corbyn's 69% and and Johnson's 62% is that overall? And I guess Undecided Voters are part of that overall total? Sorry, I'm a dumbass when it comes to this stuff.
On one hand the Tories getting a majority at least allows Labour in the next election to have total proof of Brexit, in some ways it will help them. If it all goes tits up it would allow Labour a very strong majority next time one would think
That's a pretty weak salve when it means being taken out of the EU, five years behind on climate change action, severe underfunding of services and more of the NHS being sold piece-meal to private firms and foreign interests. Not to mention the increase in poverty and homelessness that shows no signs of slowing down without serious action.
But sure, we can just put pause on that for five years, at least we'll get a win.
But even that I wouldn't be at all sure of, as they have it in their manifesto that they're going to be doing all sorts of hijinks with regards to voting laws, constituency boundaries and the like, to make it that much harder to get them out. And they'll still have the press on their side smearing whoever comes after Corbyn.
Depends what the Tories do, they aren't going to help people but they will make the most of their time that maybe impossible or very difficult to row back. Don't forget it's easy to have a boogeyman and it's worked so far, who is to say they can't get away with it again. Harsh times and struggle seem to have the opposite effect, people get angry at the wrong people.
The Tories will push through with actions that make a Labour victory impossible next time, such as equalising parliamentary constituencies and bringing in voter ID. So I don't buy the compensation that a Tory victory now, means Labour in 5 years.
The Tories will get rid of the FTPA and gerrymander (check the manifesto) to make it even harder for anyone to do anything about it. When you have a Tory majority that are happy to play the meta of our political process there is even less hope of a disaster being rectified democratically.
That's not usually how this works. The worry about what will happen now is Labour lusting for Tony Blair 2.0 and we follow the path of the American Democrats who "keep heading for the centre" so much they passed the centre years ago and are over on the right fighting for a "better right" than their even further right rivals.
Okay, Thatcher destroyed Scotland which got us to stop voting Tory, but banking on massive destruction of your country finally waking up the electorate is one hell of a risk. It's not really fun for those who end up living a life of hell or maybe even dying waiting for this incoming "revolution".
The yougov 52/48 just shows how entrenched people's opinions are, it's a sign of our times, heavy polarisation. Think about the question and how you would respond to it personally. As far as I'm concerned, Boris could have the most stellar performance he's ever had and there is no way I'd reply that he had a good performance considering the utter disdain I have for him.
The main thing to look at at this point in time is the undecided, those are Labour's only remaining chance and should be the big focus these last few days.
The main thing to look at at this point in time is the undecided, those are Labour's only remaining chance and should be the big focus these last few days.
Oddly, the Tory party did as they got one of the people who ran the Conservative party election campaign to run the Tory one in the UK - Isaac Levido
I'm expecting this as well - with a small-ish majority I see the ERG smacking their lips at being able to direct how negotiations go forward as well.
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Does this mean changing boundaries to ensure that the population of constituencies are roughly equal? I detect a lot of potential for fuckery there.
Many people will think both did well but obviously only one can do "best".
Also it's not YouGov's fault that people are idiots and can't see through Boris' lies.
Some of you guys need to stop with the conspiracy theories about polling companies.
Yes and it was proposed some time ago and put on the back burner. I expect to see it back again as part of a package of "constitutional reform" with the sole aim of ensuring a permanent Tory majority.
Being suspicious of polls (results and methodology) that have been widely wrong in the last few years is fine, most experts (see Nate Silver) agree that uk pollsters are trash. Doesn't mean they are wrong this time, they could very well be spot on for the first time in a while, but it's a healthy attitude until they fix their track record.
It certainly is a very tough job with many parameters to take into account, and predictions are often not understood by the public at large well enough, but it doesn't exclude the existence of biases either. Far from conspiracy theories.
My personal expectation this time is that they are far closer to the reality than the last few times but who really knows.
Exactly its all in their manifesto on page 48. They are also going to rewrite all the government laws so that the Prime Minister has more powers, I mean you cant have something like democracy getting in the way of you making wide swinging changes. Cummings loves that shit. That's not mentioning the disaster of a no deal brexit will require some serious command and control actions just to say in control. Labour nor any other party is having any chance of getting in after Boris has destroyed the country. It doesn't matter that it will be way to late for action on climate change, the people will be so used to the deprivation they won't know or want for anything else.
Its really telling that when I try to think of what future elections might be fought over that I can't imagine anything else but how Brexit will be finalised. It really does look like Tories until 2029.
If the Tories get enough power to gerrymander, UK democracy will finally be dead.
If the Tories get enough power to gerrymander, UK democracy will finally be dead.
Being skeptical of the accuracy of polls is different to saying "Ho ho, YouGov, try not to be so transparent."
Because their two snap polls of 51 / 49 and 52 / 48 aren't at all convenient. Not least when I can predict the outcome precisely in this thread before the poll is even released. It's so laughably meaningless.
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