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Sei

Member
Oct 28, 2017
5,702
LA
Ubi games niche? Isn't AC a +10 million seller?

Niche not in sales but in genre.

Most Ubisoft games and Odyssey fall into a very well defined category of open world games.

There are people that buy those games, but that doesn't encompass all potential people that buy games.

Forza is primarily a racing game. Yeah, the racing genre is definitely smaller than the open world genre.
 

Kasey

Member
Nov 1, 2017
10,822
Boise
Goes to show Gamepass doesn't hurt sales like many folks speculate it does.

More choice is a good thing.
 

Zappy

Banned
Nov 2, 2017
3,738
Why do people keep ignoring the fact that gamepass is leading to increased sales in games? Confirmed by analysts on here and Phil himself. Nobody fully gets why, but it is.
 

pswii60

Member
Oct 27, 2017
26,647
The Milky Way
Is it though? In that specific market? I think it's kind of unsurprising.
AC is a monster in the UK. The fact that an arcade racer - indeed any racer not called GT - could outsell both SKUs combined of ACO is of course impressive.. even moreso when you consider FH4 is on Game Pass. It wasn't long ago when the narrative here was that Game Pass would kill sales of Microsoft's first party games.
 

LewieP

Member
Oct 26, 2017
18,091
I'd be interested to see more data. I wonder if Forza is having fewer digital sales, since if you want it digitally many people would just opt for game pass, but the positive buzz generated by more people playing it because of game pass has resulted in increased physical sales. That would make logical sense to me, and seems to be something that Microsoft, Playground and players would be happy about.

For Assassin's Creed, hard to judge with just this small bit of insight into sales, but I'm curious as to whether it will ever become a consistent annual seller to the same extent it used to be. Maybe it's still doing great, since this is just UK physical data, but given the stiff competition from other recent releases and older games still commanding a big audience, I wonder if Ubi are feeling the heat.

Just speculation of course, difficult to know for sure without having access to more data.
 

Benji

Self Requested Ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,114
Forza Horizon 4 is selling incredibly for a racing title in today's market

Like incredible. Both digital and physical

Crazy how important of a franchise the Horizon series has become to Xbox
 

pswii60

Member
Oct 27, 2017
26,647
The Milky Way
Probably the try before you buy has increased interest in other games people wouldn't normally go out to get.
It's not 'try before you buy' anymore than Netflix is for their TV shows. The reason Game Pass increases sales is because more people play the games as a result, which means more people playing them on friends lists, and more people talking about the games. And word of mouth is the most powerful and cheapest form of marketing.
 

Liliana

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
3,375
NYC
Forza Horizon 4 is selling incredibly for a racing title in today's market

Like incredible. Both digital and physical

Crazy how important of a franchise the Horizon series has become to Xbox

Well there it is. Wow.

I can't believe this game is on Game Pass and its s pulling these numbers. Insane.
 

UnluckyKate

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,518
Very good. The brit do love their car games.

I hope its a sign that racing games wont die just yet
 

Prine

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
15,724
Forza Horizon 4 is selling incredibly for a racing title in today's market

Like incredible. Both digital and physical

Crazy how important of a franchise the Horizon series has become to Xbox
This confirmation warms the heart. So happy for Playground games. Perhaps bigger then Forza Motorsport?
 

aspiring

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,545
I guess so or I don't know why they buy the game since it's on gamepass.

Plenty of people would rather own than buy the game. Gamepass is a good idea for kids or those who dont mind not owning their own copy. I'd wager most still do.

I have the game and know a few mates who all ha r bought it. None of us care for gamepass.
 

Deleted member 42

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 24, 2017
16,939
Forza Horizon 4 is selling incredibly for a racing title in today's market

Like incredible. Both digital and physical

Crazy how important of a franchise the Horizon series has become to Xbox

I am the tastemaker, never forget it

Driving around in a circle? Boring as fuck

Driving a 3 million dollar supercar into a bunch of rocks and shitty trees in the UK? 8 million
 

khamakazee

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,937
Plenty of people would rather own than buy the game. Gamepass is a good idea for kids or those who dont mind not owning their own copy. I'd wager most still do.

I have the game and know a few mates who all ha r bought it. None of us care for gamepass.

A lot of us are growing up and simply don't have the time anymore to be game collectors. These subscription models are becoming more and more appealing as the value is there right away with little commitment
 

Zappy

Banned
Nov 2, 2017
3,738
This doesn't really prove anything regarding GamePass and sales, Forza Horizon 4 could've likely sold more if it weren't on the subscription. The entire service remains ambiguous in whether it's helping sales or not without an exact alternate universe comparison (FH4 launching on GamePass vs only full price). Some evidence points to it helping, some don't. We'll never really know.

Either way, it's still an impressive result and well deserved for the folks at Playground, such a talented team.

Phil Spencer made the point that you can never compare directly. But given every 1st party game to date on gamepass has surpassed MS expectations on terms of sales is about all evidence you need.
 

aspiring

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,545
A lot of us are growing up and simply don't have the time anymore to be game collectors. These subscription models are becoming more and more appealing as the value is there right away with little commitment

I get that as well. However im sure, as these numbers probably show, that it is still a very small market.

I think its a fantastic idea, if my kids played more i would sign up in an instant for them, or for people with limited space, but i still am sure that market is tiny, and as it stands is not for me. I still have my free trial from my X here .

Im sure Phil Spenser has said it has not affected sales, and games such as Forza, Sea Of Thieves and State Of Deacy have all shown that people still prefer to buy. So again, i dont know why people are suprised. Gamepass has a place, its just a small one at least atm, that wont affect sales.
 

Lukas Taves

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
5,713
Brazil
Niche not in sales but in genre.

Most Ubisoft games and Odyssey fall into a very well defined category of open world games.

There are people that buy those games, but that doesn't encompass all potential people that buy games.

Forza is primarily a racing game. Yeah, the racing genre is definitely smaller than the open world genre.
That does not make much sense. The racing genre was considered dying until FH started pulling some big numbers again. It's not like people will just buy whatever game it's available.
 

Lukas Taves

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
5,713
Brazil
This doesn't really prove anything regarding GamePass and sales, Forza Horizon 4 could've likely sold more if it weren't on the subscription. The entire service remains ambiguous in whether it's helping sales or not without an exact alternate universe comparison (FH4 launching on GamePass vs only full price). Some evidence points to it helping, some don't. We'll never really know.

Either way, it's still an impressive result and well deserved for the folks at Playground, such a talented team.
It may not be a direct correlation, but it adds up.

Play anywhere, X, gamepass have made Xbox a stronger platform than before and the games are selling more as a result.
 

Benji

Self Requested Ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,114
This confirmation warms the heart. So happy for Playground games. Perhaps bigger then Forza Motorsport?

Yep.

The Horizon sub series has now become a bigger seller than the mainline Forza Motorsport games.

Pretty crazy how the "spin off" has overtaken the original
 

OG_Thrills

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,655
At the moment?

Are we accounting for retail fluctuations because Forza is being bundled heavily here. If at the moment is indeed tempoary then I'm guessing things will normalize once retailers stop bundling Forza with RDR2? At least I think that's what's happening.
 

DopeyFish

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,783
Yep.

The Horizon sub series has now become a bigger seller than the mainline Forza Motorsport games.

Pretty crazy how the "spin off" has overtaken the original

Every game based on Gran Turismo lineage has become pretty stale. You all know what you're getting, what tracks you're getting, what cars you're getting and it's all stuff you've played before.

People crave new things and unfortunately the sim racer isn't going to provide that anymore.
 

khamakazee

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,937
I get that as well. However im sure, as these numbers probably show, that it is still a very small market.

I think its a fantastic idea, if my kids played more i would sign up in an instant for them, or for people with limited space, but i still am sure that market is tiny, and as it stands is not for me. I still have my free trial from my X here .

Im sure Phil Spenser has said it has not affected sales, and games such as Forza, Sea Of Thieves and State Of Deacy have all shown that people still prefer to buy. So again, i dont know why people are suprised. Gamepass has a place, its just a small one at least atm, that wont affect sales.

Spencer has said sales have shown to increase in expectations which surprised him. He allocated that to word of mouth and friends seeing them play those games on Game Pass and now wanting to buy them too Either way it sounds like a win win.

Third party publishers are still going to be apprehensive putting new titles on it.
 

christocolus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,931
This confirmation warms the heart. So happy for Playground games. Perhaps bigger then Forza Motorsport?
I'm so happy. It's truly the best racing game out so far. PG games have a really bright future ahead. I remember many saying FH4 wouldn't achieve FH3 numbers but I think it will and a lot more.
 

Superman2x7

Banned
Nov 4, 2017
1,692
That's mighty impressive seeing how well Odyessy is doing overall, I think Ubisoft said its outsold Origins which did great numbers for them.

Just glad to see the Playground team do so well Horizon 4 deserves all its praise.
 

leng jai

Member
Nov 2, 2017
15,114
Are the pack ins counted as physical even though they are codes? In Australia everywhere has been selling an extremely cheap 1X bundle with Forza 7 and FH4 codes and now there are a ton of them on Gumtree and eBay.
 
Oct 25, 2017
7,523
Well deserved, I wasn't that keen on horizon 2 and 3 but this game is fantastic. For it to overcome a dead genre and the seemingly insurmountable number of two week game pass trials is testament to the quality of playground games.

Now if I could just get those pulse FM tunes out of my head...

I am the tastemaker, never forget it

Driving around in a circle? Boring as fuck

Driving a 3 million dollar supercar into a bunch of rocks and shitty trees in the UK? 8 million

Take that back you slut, every tree in this glorious land is a magical marvel of nature.
 

Kapryov

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,118
Australia
I have yet to play Odyssey, but Horizon 4 is fantastic and absolutely deserving of its success.
Not only is it gorgeous, but it's really beginner friendly and fun to play. You can just do whatever you want, whenever you want, no pressure. And you can chase deer and sheep across Britain to your heart's content.

It's been a good breather game between sessions on RDR2.
The classical station needs more songs on it though...

Edit: and fuck some of those barn searches
 
Oct 25, 2017
7,523
I have yet to play Odyssey, but Horizon 4 is fantastic and absolutely deserving of its success.
Not only is it gorgeous, but it's really beginner friendly and fun to play. You can just do whatever you want, whenever you want, no pressure. And you can chase deer and sheep across Britain to your heart's content.

It's been a good breather game between sessions on RDR2.
The classical station needs more songs on it though...

Yeah the classical station is secretly the MVP of the game, if it had a few more pieces I'd never change the channel from that.
 

Ethan Hutn

Banned
Jan 20, 2018
637
Let's be real. Being bundled with pretty much every One S/X helps a lot at the end of the day.

Happy for the success though nonetheless.
 

Cascadero

Member
Nov 8, 2017
1,525
The apples and oranges comparison seems strong in this one. Both seem like good games (I've only starred Odyssey but put it on hold for RDR 2) and if they both sell well then all the better for the future of gaming!
 

uptownsoul

Self-requested ban
Banned
Dec 6, 2017
112
Why do people keep ignoring the fact that gamepass is leading to increased sales in games? Confirmed by analysts on here and Phil himself. Nobody fully gets why, but it is.

Because GamePass actually does hurt sales…Just look at NPD for Sea of Thieves.

In March NPD ( https://venturebeat.com/2018/04/24/...5-debuts-as-the-top-selling-game-of-the-year/ ) both Sea of Thieves & MLB launched at the same price ($60)and released within 7 days of each other. Sea of Thieves was #2 while MLB was #3 on NPD…

Fast forward to April's NPD ( https://venturebeat.com/2018/05/22/april-npd-2018-god-of-war-is-the-big-daddy/ ) and MLB stayed at #3 while Sea of Thieves fell to #18

Now I ask you, how did one $60 game (MLB 18) stay at #3, while the other $60 game (Sea of Thieves) drop 16 spots?
 
Oct 25, 2017
7,523
Because GamePass actually does hurt sales…Just look at NPD for Sea of Thieves.

In March NPD ( https://venturebeat.com/2018/04/24/...5-debuts-as-the-top-selling-game-of-the-year/ ) both Sea of Thieves & MLB launched at the same price ($60)and released within 7 days of each other. Sea of Thieves was #2 while MLB was #3 on NPD…

Fast forward to April's NPD ( https://venturebeat.com/2018/05/22/april-npd-2018-god-of-war-is-the-big-daddy/ ) and MLB stayed at #3 while Sea of Thieves fell to #18

Now I ask you, how did one $60 game (MLB 18) stay at #3, while the other $60 game (Sea of Thieves) drop 16 spots?

This might be my favourite post of the year, it's amazing on so many levels.