UK Political Era |OT1| Dis United Kingdom

rabathehutch

Member
Nov 1, 2017
166
I wonder what RLB did to upset McCluskey so much, it sounds like he's asking everyone and anyone to be the not-Long-Bailey leadership candidate.
 

Flammable D

Member
Oct 30, 2017
14,121
Look, I'm going after this, because it is a pointless discussion here. But if what he said is fine, but he shouldn't have said it (despite the fact this was under repeated questioning in an interview, and if he'd not commented the story would be his terrorist refusal to comment), then maybe that's not his problem? If the only acceptable response for a Labour leader is to agree with and support random Trump assassinations of foreign leaders, maaaaaybe there is a problem with our media's position? Maaaaaybe have a think about why you want someone to beat the Tories, if it's not to do things differently.

But whatever, I'm a ruining Corbynism cultist or whatever it is this week. Later.
 

PJV3

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,587
London
Look, I'm going after this, because it is a pointless discussion here. But if what he said is fine, but he shouldn't have said it (despite the fact this was under repeated questioning in an interview, and if he'd not commented the story would be his terrorist refusal to comment), then maybe that's not his problem? If the only acceptable response for a Labour leader is to agree with and support random Trump assassinations of foreign leaders, maaaaaybe there is a problem with our media's position? Maaaaaybe have a think about why you want someone to beat the Tories, if it's not to do things differently.

But whatever, I'm a ruining Corbynism cultist or whatever it is this week. Later.
I think it would just be more effective coming from a Robin Cook type figure, the Corbyn brand is far too tarnished at this point.
 

rabathehutch

Member
Nov 1, 2017
166
I don't think much is going on besides not putting their eggs all in one basket, McDonnell is going with Burgon instead of Rayner.
They've never ran multiple candidates before and it seems risky to start splitting their PLP and CLP nominations. But I suppose beyond that with the way voting is handled there's nothing wrong with having a couple of favourable candidates on the ballot. It still strikes me as odd that the head of Unite - who would be looking for someone closely aligned with Corbyn - keeps asking other MPs (notably men) to put their hat in the ring. Especially given Long-Bailey has Lansman as an advisor and rated Corybn 10/10 (lol).
 

PJV3

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,587
London
They've never ran multiple candidates before and it seems risky to start splitting their PLP and CLP nominations. But I suppose beyond that with the way voting is handled there's nothing wrong with having a couple of favourable candidates on the ballot. It still strikes me as odd that the head of Unite - who would be looking for someone closely aligned with Corbyn - keeps asking other MPs (notably men) to put their hat in the ring. Especially given Long-Bailey has Lansman as an advisor and rated Corybn 10/10 (lol).
I think people buy in too much to the idea that the left of the party is like some Stalinist cult blindly following the next chosen one, i mean Starmer has one of Corbyn's top men on his team. i don't see anything odd going on really.
 

Chem

Self-requested ban
Banned
Jan 1, 2020
83
I think the right choice is Clive Lewis, the man isn't strongly linked to Corbyn and is a pretty decent follow apart from the comment he made a few years ago.
 

nature boy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,023

I wonder if there's a legal case that the Scottish government can push forward.
(Although I think the whole referendum and independence process will be political)
 

*Splinter

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,795
It’s not that he shouldn’t say bad things are bad...

It’s that he often leaves himself open to very easy attacks from his opponents because of how/when these statements are made.

Yes, it’s not ideal to have to censor the true meaning behind your words, and there’ll always be spin against it but...he does like to make it very very easy for others to criticise him..

C’mon, be a bit savvy, man!
Eh, I'd agree there are situations where the leader of a political party has to self-censor, but this wasn't one of them. Americans actions were dangerous, and god help us if we don't have a single politician willing to describe them as such.
 

PJV3

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,587
London
Our next leader Jess Phillips is rightly ruling out Scottish independence.
well according to a tweet where she disagrees with Clive Lewis about it anyway.
 

Puroresu_kid

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,761
Our next leader Jess Phillips is rightly ruling out Scottish independence.
well according to a tweet where she disagrees with Clive Lewis about it anyway.
Labour as usual showing why they will always be irrelevant in Scotland. How damn difficult is it just to say let the Scottish people decide.
 

Ando

Member
Apr 21, 2018
724
I wonder what RLB did to upset McCluskey so much, it sounds like he's asking everyone and anyone to be the not-Long-Bailey leadership candidate.
i think the really interesting question is whether it’s because

a) he doesn’t rate her leadership skills at all and wants to get off a sinking ship which risks losing him power vs more centre-left unions

or

b) RLB has moved away from a unite policy position risking diminishing his potential influence over her (perhaps an unwillingness to be more anti-immigration? hence promotion of lavery)
 

ronpontelle

Member
Oct 27, 2017
587
Labour as usual showing why they will always be irrelevant in Scotland. How damn difficult is it just to say let the Scottish people decide.
I don't disagree, but second referendums are just not popular it seems! Same as Brexit, if people wanted to leave still, what's the problem, but they get antsy about them. Regardless of how much they may be due.
 

Ando

Member
Apr 21, 2018
724
scottish labour did a lot better in a general election where they were pro-union (2017) than one where they very clearly signalled their openness to another referendum (2019)
 

jelly

Member
Oct 26, 2017
12,112
Labour as usual showing why they will always be irrelevant in Scotland. How damn difficult is it just to say let the Scottish people decide.
Is it not basically fear that without Scotland they will never be in power in the rest of the UK. Either way you end up in the same place, see now.

They basically think if Scotland gets a 2nd Ref, Yes will win which leaves them screwed in England, Wales, not getting a majority in Westminster.
 

SMD

Member
Oct 28, 2017
5,131
Getting a lot less traffic on the Scots in here, where's Audioboxer?
 

Garfield

Member
Oct 31, 2018
1,548
Barely even a breath on the news about the withdrawal bill passing today, just shows how people now accept brexit, no protests. Nothing
 

Ushojax

Member
Oct 30, 2017
3,310
Barely even a breath on the news about the withdrawal bill passing today, just shows how people now accept brexit, no protests. Nothing
We have to accept the reality. No point fighting it anymore.

Now it’s about getting Labour ready for government. I have no doubt that we will rejoin the EU within the next 20 years anyway.
 

FliXFantatier

Master of the Reality Stone
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
4,781
Los Angeles
Barely even a breath on the news about the withdrawal bill passing today, just shows how people now accept brexit, no protests. Nothing
Any rebels either side?

Now it’s about getting Labour ready for government. I have no doubt that we will rejoin the EU within the next 20 years anyway.
I wouldn't count on it. One argument I recently heard from someone on the matter was that Switzerland had a razor thin referendum on joinining and voted against it, now there is a very comfortable majority to not join and they have found their place and comfort in how things are now for the most part.
 

PJV3

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,587
London
We have to accept the reality. No point fighting it anymore.

Now it’s about getting Labour ready for government. I have no doubt that we will rejoin the EU within the next 20 years anyway.
Yeah, once we are out then the grass roots level campaign to rejoin can begin. It's not as if the almost half of the country who voted to remain will disappear.
 

Rodelero

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,273
I wouldn't count on it. One argument I recently heard from someone on the matter was that Switzerland had a razor thin referendum on joinining and voted against it, now there is a very comfortable majority to not join and they have found their place and comfort in how things are now for the most part.
That may not end up being particularly comparable. It's going to depend on how Brexit is perceived to have gone. If Brexit goes 'not that badly' or well, then obviously Rejoin won't have a chance, but if Brexit goes badly and is viewed, like Iraq is viewed, as a mistake, it will be remarkable how quickly the sentiment shifts against us having left. The majority who already think we shouldn't leave will be emboldened and the leavers of today will disintegrate.

The questions are... how badly does Brexit have to go for that sentiment to occur & will that occur?
 

Gurgelhals

Member
Oct 27, 2017
975
I wouldn't count on it. One argument I recently heard from someone on the matter was that Switzerland had a razor thin referendum on joinining and voted against it, now there is a very comfortable majority to not join and they have found their place and comfort in how things are now for the most part.
The situation in Switzerland isn't really comparable though. Said referendum happened almost 30 years ago (when the EU didn't exist in its present form; the referendum was actually about whether to join the European Economic Area or not). The bespoke deals between Switzerland and the EU were subsequently negotiated a) in an entirely different political climate (it was a time when the EU could still afford to be quite forthcoming and generous) and b) under the assumption (at least by the EU) that these were only temporary arrangements leading up to Switzerland eventually becoming a full member state.

As the latter is no longer a realistic prospect, the EU has now been putting the Swiss government under *a lot* of pressure to at least turn those bespoke deals into a more dynamic arrangement (one where Switzerland would automatically adopt new EU regulations and stuff like that). Under the current arrangement, every single adjustment has to be "manually" negotiated between the two parties and that's a pain in the arse for everyone involved. However, such a new, more dynamic agreement would have to withstand a referendum in Switzerland, of course, and that's going to be very, very tricky. The latter is why all that the Swiss government has been doing over the past few years is stalling for time ... with the EU becoming more and more impatient as a result, of course...

Long story short: The Swiss situation really isn't comparable to Brexit Britain. OTOH, the country has those 20-years-old bespoke deals in place and a clear 65-70% majority of the populace wants to keep them. OTOH, they're also decisively against becoming a proper EU member state and are rather skeptical about this more recent idea of a more dynamic arragement. But given that the EU is very much pushing Switzerland to adopt the latter, I fully expect them to treat the UK in a similar way (Basically: "No preferential treatement without full and automatic regulatory aligment with EU standards.").
 

PJV3

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,587
London
What happened? I tried to search but it looks like they requested for their account to be deleted?
Nah, i think he got a bit carried away explaining to Black american voters that they aren't demanding more out of their politicians, nothing terrible just Scotsplaining or whatever you would call it. unless you hear stuff from him off site.
 

Ando

Member
Apr 21, 2018
724
I wouldn't count on it. One argument I recently heard from someone on the matter was that Switzerland had a razor thin referendum on joinining and voted against it, now there is a very comfortable majority to not join and they have found their place and comfort in how things are now for the most part.
norway’s full membership campaigners have hit a similar wall. ultimately the brexiteers are correct that the uk isn’t fully comfortable culturally with being part of the EU parliament and sees itself as distinct, especially with the move towards increased federalisation and the pre-2016 weird relationship where we push against federalisation and refuse to join euro & schengen.

future labour and tory governments gradually moving to replicating the closer economic and regulatory ties we had while never becoming a full member ever again feels like the most likely future. i think people will move on when it becomes less of a culture war lightning rod and climate issues are a bigger priority. most liberals really really didn’t care about the EU pre-referendum and will easily go back to not caring.
 

FliXFantatier

Master of the Reality Stone
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
4,781
Los Angeles

Ando

Member
Apr 21, 2018
724
every party ditching electoral reform plans (tory plans to reduce number of mp’s, the jenkins report for av under labour) as soon as it primarily inconveniences their own mp’s is a classic
 

SMD

Member
Oct 28, 2017
5,131
Nah, i think he got a bit carried away explaining to Black american voters that they aren't demanding more out of their politicians, nothing terrible just Scotsplaining or whatever you would call it. unless you hear stuff from him off site.
What? That's a 3 month ban? Did he abuse someone or something?

every party ditching electoral reform plans (tory plans to reduce number of mp’s, the jenkins report for av under labour) as soon as it primarily inconveniences their own mp’s is a classic
It's never going to happen as a manifesto pledge, people have to learn that change only comes from continuous pressure.
 

PJV3

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,587
London
What? That's a 3 month ban? Did he abuse someone or something?
"dismissing concerns about racism", i don't think he meant to but he didn't stop when people were getting fed up with his argument about American politics.

^Yeah, i was going to wind him up about Jess Phillips but he didn't respond within a nanosecond so i knew something was up.
 

Stuart444

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,635
The more support for independence the better.

I'd love for us to distance ourselves as far away from Boris Johnson as possible.

edit: not sure if posted but saw this on reddit: